Steel Tornado.
-
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭BaylorCorvette wrote: »Deleting the execution is not the answer. It would then further force certain classes into having to use 2H. I play a StamSorc and I absolutely hate Dizzying Swing, I haven't run 2H in a long time. Now if ZoS made wrecking blow an instant cast ability the 2H line would be much more appealing. Either that or give StamSorc and StamDK some love in their tool kit in terms of damage abilities.
Exactly. People are so on about nerfing DW, even after enchant changes, that it doesn't even dawn on them that not every class has the freedom to build to their heart's content. Nerf bleeds, nerf rending, nerf tornado. Dizzy is a monstrosity in the current lag fest and the ol' SnB Puncture/LA/bash isn't really what I consider fun either.1 -
Sypherioth✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »BaylorCorvette wrote: »Deleting the execution is not the answer. It would then further force certain classes into having to use 2H. I play a StamSorc and I absolutely hate Dizzying Swing, I haven't run 2H in a long time. Now if ZoS made wrecking blow an instant cast ability the 2H line would be much more appealing. Either that or give StamSorc and StamDK some love in their tool kit in terms of damage abilities.
Exactly. People are so on about nerfing DW, even after enchant changes, that it doesn't even dawn on them that not every class has the freedom to build to their heart's content. Nerf bleeds, nerf rending, nerf tornado. Dizzy is a monstrosity in the current lag fest and the ol' SnB Puncture/LA/bash isn't really what I consider fun either.
My opinion is to give all aoe same dmges etc. They should stop the variety in damage and all that if they want to balance things out with the power creep. Also aoe skills should be no finishers. Give every aoe certain debuffs and then its alot more balanced. Also all finishers should have same dmges same mechanics. And single player only.
same as that they should put all resistances equal. dmg between magicka and stamina also equal. I realy don't understand how games still try to balance things with loads of diferent skills. different dmges. different mechanics etc etc. it gets harder with every extra unique skil to make balance. espeically with a power creep.Edited by Sypherioth on February 19, 2019 12:12PM0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sypherioth wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »BaylorCorvette wrote: »Deleting the execution is not the answer. It would then further force certain classes into having to use 2H. I play a StamSorc and I absolutely hate Dizzying Swing, I haven't run 2H in a long time. Now if ZoS made wrecking blow an instant cast ability the 2H line would be much more appealing. Either that or give StamSorc and StamDK some love in their tool kit in terms of damage abilities.
Exactly. People are so on about nerfing DW, even after enchant changes, that it doesn't even dawn on them that not every class has the freedom to build to their heart's content. Nerf bleeds, nerf rending, nerf tornado. Dizzy is a monstrosity in the current lag fest and the ol' SnB Puncture/LA/bash isn't really what I consider fun either.
My opinion is to give all aoe same dmges etc. They should stop the variety in damage and all that if they want to balance things out with the power creep. Also aoe skills should be no finishers. Give every aoe certain debuffs and then its alot more balanced. Also all finishers should have same dmges same mechanics. And single player only.
same as that they should put all resistances equal. dmg between magicka and stamina also equal. I realy don't understand how games still try to balance things with loads of diferent skills. different dmges. different mechanics etc etc. it gets harder with every extra unique skil to make balance. espeically with a power creep.
The problem with this is it favors being bunched up or a roll dodge or cloak spammer to avoid executes. It already favors builds like that. I know when I get low, I start roll dodging and running around LOS and then of course steel tornado usually with some radiant destruction spam shows up in my death recap even if they tend to be pretty pathetic when spammed on me when I have my health up.1 -
BaylorCorvette✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »BaylorCorvette wrote: »Deleting the execution is not the answer. It would then further force certain classes into having to use 2H. I play a StamSorc and I absolutely hate Dizzying Swing, I haven't run 2H in a long time. Now if ZoS made wrecking blow an instant cast ability the 2H line would be much more appealing. Either that or give StamSorc and StamDK some love in their tool kit in terms of damage abilities.
stamwhip?
Stamwhip and Air/Stam Frags!Supreme Leader Corvette - StamSorc
Founder of Dominion Special Forces
YouTube - ESO & Automotive Racing
DC Zerg Busting0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Undodgable skills are a bad idea, in any game.
1 move to counter everything is a bad idea as well.
There isn't a legit martial artist in the world who would spin with two weapons though. Let alone perfectly fan 20 knifes in a pattern.
Now it's an MMO, but it reaches beyond silly. If it was a cone execute that could be justified. Three sixty execute tho...0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Haashhtaag wrote: »
Imagine the definition of area of effectTheBonesXXX wrote: »Undodgable skills are a bad idea, in any game.
If it's ground targeted, sure. But it's not.0 -
Na0cho✭✭✭if its hard to balance with the power creep, then remove the power creep.
cp needs to go.
steel tornado itself isnt that big a deal. I try to refrain from "git gud" or "l2play" responses, however alot of times if you look at what you could have done differently/better, you will figure out ways to combat things.
at least thats what i try to do when im having trouble with certain peoples builds etc. In fact my build is always changing because i might think its strong one day, then run into the rock to my scissors the next and try to figure out a way to be stronger vs my weakness.
pvp is not pve. you cant just pick the gear/loadout that gives you the most damage and run with it. You need to be alot more fluid than that.
I dont even run tornado on my dw chars in bg's for the most part. DW strength comes from bleeds imo and rending is probably the only skill from the line that makes it on my bar. of course maybe im just a potato and need to git gud myself.
I know i CAN always get better anyway.2 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »
Imagine the definition of area of effectTheBonesXXX wrote: »Undodgable skills are a bad idea, in any game.
If it's ground targeted, sure. But it's not.
Area of effect = area of effect
Do you think sap essence(NB) and draw essence(DK) should be dodgeable as well?Edited by Haashhtaag on February 19, 2019 5:18PM1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheBonesXXX wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Undodgable skills are a bad idea, in any game.
1 move to counter everything is a bad idea as well.
There isn't a legit martial artist in the world who would spin with two weapons though. Let alone perfectly fan 20 knifes in a pattern.
Now it's an MMO, but it reaches beyond silly. If it was a cone execute that could be justified. Three sixty execute tho...
Probably just as silly as a legit martial artist continually dodging lightning strikes. Or as your helm calling a reptile to bite the opponent that you just taunted. Fantasy stuff. However, I'd probably be fine with an undodgeable conal execute.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on February 19, 2019 6:46PM1 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭Well, maybe this thread can be now closed, and considered a success,
because ZOS fixed the Steel Tornado problem by deleting its most enthusiastic users, the StamSorcs, from PvP.
Hauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.1 -
Heimpai✭✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »
Imagine the definition of area of effectTheBonesXXX wrote: »Undodgable skills are a bad idea, in any game.
If it's ground targeted, sure. But it's not.
Area of effect = area of effect
Do you think sap essence(NB) and draw essence(DK) should be dodgeable as well?
Yes, wasn’t aware those were also executes 🤔1 -
Sypherioth✭✭✭Well, maybe this thread can be now closed, and considered a success,
because ZOS fixed the Steel Tornado problem by deleting its most enthusiastic users, the StamSorcs, from PvP.
You mean they fixed a class that can contieusly do major aoe dmg. then use an aoe finisher with another finisher on top. not forgetting the heal on crits paired with it. in my opinion stamsorc will still be very viable.Edited by Sypherioth on February 21, 2019 4:10PM1 -
Arkangeloski✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »
Imagine the definition of area of effectTheBonesXXX wrote: »Undodgable skills are a bad idea, in any game.
If it's ground targeted, sure. But it's not.
Area of effect = area of effect
Do you think sap essence(NB) and draw essence(DK) should be dodgeable as well?
Are those also executes?1 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭Sypherioth wrote: »Well, maybe this thread can be now closed, and considered a success,
because ZOS fixed the Steel Tornado problem by deleting its most enthusiastic users, the StamSorcs, from PvP.
You mean they fixed a class that can contieusly do major aoe dmg. then use an aoe finisher with another finisher on top. not forgetting the heal on crits paired with it. in my opinion stamsorc will still be very viable.
1) The Heal on crits thing is no longer class exclusive, it´s compensated by a set many good players use.
2) Implosion is going to be changed next week. It becomes a poor man´s minor brutality (from a solo or small scale perspective).
3) After the Implosion change, I would consider Stamblades and StamDKs as equal or better Steel Tornado users in PvP (In PvE, StamSorc still rule the AoE department due to hurricane): The new implosion actively works against the skill. Frostnados are FAR better anyways.
In short: the main culprits (Frostnados) will continue to frustrate players, and a marginalized class becomes even more marginalized. That´s not the way Steel Tornado should have been "balanced".Edited by Thraben on February 21, 2019 5:06PMHauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.1 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sypherioth wrote: »Well, maybe this thread can be now closed, and considered a success,
because ZOS fixed the Steel Tornado problem by deleting its most enthusiastic users, the StamSorcs, from PvP.
You mean they fixed a class that can contieusly do major aoe dmg. then use an aoe finisher with another finisher on top. not forgetting the heal on crits paired with it. in my opinion stamsorc will still be very viable.
1) The Heal on crits thing is no longer class exclusive, it´s compensated by a set many good players use.
2) Implosion is going to be changed next week. It becomes a poor man´s minor brutality (from a solo or small scale perspective).
3) After the Implosion change, I would consider Stamblades and StamDKs as equal or better Steel Tornado users in PvP (In PvE, StamSorc still rule the AoE department due to hurricane): The new implosion actively works against the skill. Frostnados are FAR better anyways.
In short: the main culprits (Frostnados) will continue to frustrate players, and a marginalized class becomes even more marginalized. That´s not the way Steel Tornado should have been "balanced".
Stamsorc still very useful in small scale because negates0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Haashhtaag wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »
Imagine the definition of area of effectTheBonesXXX wrote: »Undodgable skills are a bad idea, in any game.
If it's ground targeted, sure. But it's not.
Area of effect = area of effect
Do you think sap essence(NB) and draw essence(DK) should be dodgeable as well?
Yeah, I think any AoE that follows the character should be dodgeable and increase in damage per player in it.
Then lower the cost of it.1 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Undodgable skills are a bad idea, in any game.
1 move to counter everything is a bad idea as well.
There isn't a legit martial artist in the world who would spin with two weapons though. Let alone perfectly fan 20 knifes in a pattern.
Now it's an MMO, but it reaches beyond silly. If it was a cone execute that could be justified. Three sixty execute tho...
Probably just as silly as a legit martial artist continually dodging lightning strikes. Or as your helm calling a reptile to bite the opponent that you just taunted. Fantasy stuff. However, I'd probably be fine with an undodgeable conal execute.
I don't care if it's 270 degrees, 360 is the prob. Executes being undodgable are dumb.1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Haashhtaag wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »Well, maybe this thread can be now closed, and considered a success,
because ZOS fixed the Steel Tornado problem by deleting its most enthusiastic users, the StamSorcs, from PvP.
You mean they fixed a class that can contieusly do major aoe dmg. then use an aoe finisher with another finisher on top. not forgetting the heal on crits paired with it. in my opinion stamsorc will still be very viable.
1) The Heal on crits thing is no longer class exclusive, it´s compensated by a set many good players use.
2) Implosion is going to be changed next week. It becomes a poor man´s minor brutality (from a solo or small scale perspective).
3) After the Implosion change, I would consider Stamblades and StamDKs as equal or better Steel Tornado users in PvP (In PvE, StamSorc still rule the AoE department due to hurricane): The new implosion actively works against the skill. Frostnados are FAR better anyways.
In short: the main culprits (Frostnados) will continue to frustrate players, and a marginalized class becomes even more marginalized. That´s not the way Steel Tornado should have been "balanced".
Stamsorc still very useful in small scale because negates
Amazing. That's the sole and only reason why I choose this class. So I can drop a 1 *** ultimate every here and there that is useless on everything stam. Good thing I didn't choose a warden or nightblade over this.
Really, you mentioned the only thing a stam sorc brings to the table after next patch. Sure that's enough?TheBonesXXX wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Undodgable skills are a bad idea, in any game.
1 move to counter everything is a bad idea as well.
There isn't a legit martial artist in the world who would spin with two weapons though. Let alone perfectly fan 20 knifes in a pattern.
Now it's an MMO, but it reaches beyond silly. If it was a cone execute that could be justified. Three sixty execute tho...
Probably just as silly as a legit martial artist continually dodging lightning strikes. Or as your helm calling a reptile to bite the opponent that you just taunted. Fantasy stuff. However, I'd probably be fine with an undodgeable conal execute.
I don't care if it's 270 degrees, 360 is the prob. Executes being undodgable are dumb.
Right. Darn, I forgot there is only one way to mitigate damage in this game. I would elaborate this but I've got to hop back on my dodge tank and my dodge healer.0 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »I play a stamsorc snb /2h in heavy, 25k hp, 23k resistances. Yeah I'm squishy af. But I can't remember the last time dying to spin 2 win.
How I do it you ask?
a) situational awareness if I see a 6 man group buffing up I can usually predict where they are going and avoid standing there, and if I'm unfortunate to stand there I
b) Block'n'Vigor go forward not backwards reduce your time in the aoe dump
c) if you have a aoe cc(Streak, mass hysteria, etc use it, taking 3 dbos is still better then 6 expecially if stamden are involved
Your welcome.
P. S. The main point is to overcome your instinkt to dodge roll block instead and start vigor shortly before the dawny hits you if possible not after if Stam wardens are involved.
First time seeing someone say 'squishy' next to 'snb heavy stamsorc'. You are at peak tankiness. There is no way up but building tank and majority of people are below you in tankiness. I am not even attacking or disagreeing with your point, but there is some line where saying "i dont die to something" stops meaning anything and I think you went over it
Peak tankyness with 23k resistances? Most light armor builds In fortified etc. have more resistances then that
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.0 -
IlCanis_LupuslI✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »I play a stamsorc snb /2h in heavy, 25k hp, 23k resistances. Yeah I'm squishy af. But I can't remember the last time dying to spin 2 win.
How I do it you ask?
a) situational awareness if I see a 6 man group buffing up I can usually predict where they are going and avoid standing there, and if I'm unfortunate to stand there I
b) Block'n'Vigor go forward not backwards reduce your time in the aoe dump
c) if you have a aoe cc(Streak, mass hysteria, etc use it, taking 3 dbos is still better then 6 expecially if stamden are involved
Your welcome.
P. S. The main point is to overcome your instinkt to dodge roll block instead and start vigor shortly before the dawny hits you if possible not after if Stam wardens are involved.
First time seeing someone say 'squishy' next to 'snb heavy stamsorc'. You are at peak tankiness. There is no way up but building tank and majority of people are below you in tankiness. I am not even attacking or disagreeing with your point, but there is some line where saying "i dont die to something" stops meaning anything and I think you went over it
Well someone clearly doesn't understand the advantages of their particular setup when it comes to just "block and start vigor".
Its not quite that simple. But overcoming the dodge roll reflex is a start.
Xbox-EU-AD
Khajiit Night blade Healer(BiS for cuteness)-Flawless Conquerer Grand Overlord
Khajiit Stamsorc Werewolf, Flawless Conquerer (1st attempt ww form during the entire dungeon) main
Khajiit(Master Race) Templar Healer, Flawless Conquerer
Khajiit Stam dk, Flawless conquerer, 2nd attempt
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQhCmVHwZioVyTEDberxGtA?view_as=public
Werewolf Veteran player, Since Wrathstone-DLC "Raid-Wolf", 50k dps with fracture, Pvp Healer.0 -
Defilted✭✭✭✭✭
✭BaylorCorvette wrote: »Deleting the execution is not the answer. It would then further force certain classes into having to use 2H. I play a StamSorc and I absolutely hate Dizzying Swing, I haven't run 2H in a long time. Now if ZoS made wrecking blow an instant cast ability the 2H line would be much more appealing. Either that or give StamSorc and StamDK some love in their tool kit in terms of damage abilities.
What if one morph was a proper execute that was single target and another morph that an AOE that was not an execute. This way you do not have to change any play style and it allows people to use the skill the way they want.
Steal Tornado that has no execute and does not require a target is still very powerful in a game that can be very laggy.XBOX NA
XBOX Series X
#NightmareBear0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭BaylorCorvette wrote: »Deleting the execution is not the answer. It would then further force certain classes into having to use 2H. I play a StamSorc and I absolutely hate Dizzying Swing, I haven't run 2H in a long time. Now if ZoS made wrecking blow an instant cast ability the 2H line would be much more appealing. Either that or give StamSorc and StamDK some love in their tool kit in terms of damage abilities.
What if one morph was a proper execute that was single target and another morph that an AOE that was not an execute. This way you do not have to change any play style and it allows people to use the skill the way they want.
Steal Tornado that has no execute and does not require a target is still very powerful in a game that can be very laggy.
And raise the damage accordingly because of it's lost utility, right?0 -
Haashhtaag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Haashhtaag wrote: »Sypherioth wrote: »Well, maybe this thread can be now closed, and considered a success,
because ZOS fixed the Steel Tornado problem by deleting its most enthusiastic users, the StamSorcs, from PvP.
You mean they fixed a class that can contieusly do major aoe dmg. then use an aoe finisher with another finisher on top. not forgetting the heal on crits paired with it. in my opinion stamsorc will still be very viable.
1) The Heal on crits thing is no longer class exclusive, it´s compensated by a set many good players use.
2) Implosion is going to be changed next week. It becomes a poor man´s minor brutality (from a solo or small scale perspective).
3) After the Implosion change, I would consider Stamblades and StamDKs as equal or better Steel Tornado users in PvP (In PvE, StamSorc still rule the AoE department due to hurricane): The new implosion actively works against the skill. Frostnados are FAR better anyways.
In short: the main culprits (Frostnados) will continue to frustrate players, and a marginalized class becomes even more marginalized. That´s not the way Steel Tornado should have been "balanced".
Stamsorc still very useful in small scale because negates
Amazing. That's the sole and only reason why I choose this class. So I can drop a 1 *** ultimate every here and there that is useless on everything stam. Good thing I didn't choose a warden or nightblade over this.
Really, you mentioned the only thing a stam sorc brings to the table after next patch. Sure that's enough?TheBonesXXX wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »TheBonesXXX wrote: »Undodgable skills are a bad idea, in any game.
1 move to counter everything is a bad idea as well.
There isn't a legit martial artist in the world who would spin with two weapons though. Let alone perfectly fan 20 knifes in a pattern.
Now it's an MMO, but it reaches beyond silly. If it was a cone execute that could be justified. Three sixty execute tho...
Probably just as silly as a legit martial artist continually dodging lightning strikes. Or as your helm calling a reptile to bite the opponent that you just taunted. Fantasy stuff. However, I'd probably be fine with an undodgeable conal execute.
I don't care if it's 270 degrees, 360 is the prob. Executes being undodgable are dumb.
Right. Darn, I forgot there is only one way to mitigate damage in this game. I would elaborate this but I've got to hop back on my dodge tank and my dodge healer.
With the right build you can do tons of damage and drop a negate into DBs ez for maximum group effort.0
