Nerftheforums wrote: »

Lore wise, altmers are weak to magic since ever , and the devs are ignoring this deliberately.

Altmer race has no weakness to magic in Arena, Daggerfall, Battlespire and Skyrim.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

You do realize the way the passive was before changing it on any class would have left altmer top damage and sustain race on mag toons right? But the issue coming up is as it stands all races are pretty well balanced around each other but certain players want to keep a status quo. But back to the point of this posting is if you truly balance racial passives to be lore friendly the end result may be far worse than what we are currently looking at. Would everyone be happier if they took out racial passives all together and threw in just a race flavor bonus with no combat implications essentially making race nothing more than a cosmetic thing? If you want true any race any role that is only way you will get absolute balance. I highly doubt any players would really want that in the game. As it stands looking at eso as a whole and not just nit picking a few passive bonuses races will be the more balanced when patch goes live then they have been since launch. Final note this is not the final game update we are ever gonna see so who knows how future patches are going to affect these current changes coming to the game. Every patch in the past brought changes that is an undeniable truth and will be true next patches. What is also true players have learned and adapted to past changes and will undoubtedly adapt to these and future changes. If you don’t like balancing changes go play a solo game this is an mmo and the developers can’t cater to everyone if they did dk would have a stam whip now just for example.

Actually according to testing done Altmer was not the universal BIS, in Liko´s testing for magblade and magplar altmer wasnt on top on either, pretty strange that one of the best dps players in the world hasnt got the "top Damage and Sustain race for mag toons" Altmer, you know on top of dps parses.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455486/dps-comparison-of-races-on-magplar-on-pts4-3-0-tests-graphs-and-Analysis
If you look here you will notice that Altmer isnt on the top either while admitting that Breton hasnt been tested to their full potential and is barely 400 dps behind.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown/p1
Here Bretons are actually ahead of Altmer, really strange for the BIS magicka race.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1
Here Breton is ahead of Altmer aswell, kinda seeing a pattern here that the oh so strong BIS magicka race actually isnt first on any of these Tests.
Saying that Altmer with the 4.3.0 Iteration of spell recharge would be the top Sustain race is wrong, a 190 mag regen passive assuming perfect uptime which you will never have doesnt match Breton so yeah there goes being the best magicka Sustain race. Could you have tweaked the magicka restore of spell recharge? Sure you could´ve lowered it but removing it outright isnt the right approach either. Imo if even necessary, it couldve been lowered to give a 100 mag recovery on full potential to match the first Breton passive, seeing as Breton gets the same max mag as Altmer for Damage. What you are also conveniently forgetting is that a flat magicka recovery Bonus like Bretons have scales with light armor passives and CP unlike the old Iteration of spell recharge.

Even removing it was fine, but replacing it with a useless and lore-breaking stamina regen was not fine.

It has it's uses in PvP, but that's it. Racial passives are supposed to be universally useful. There are only 3 of them. It shouldn't be that *** hard to make 3 useful passives.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

You do realize the way the passive was before changing it on any class would have left altmer top damage and sustain race on mag toons right? But the issue coming up is as it stands all races are pretty well balanced around each other but certain players want to keep a status quo. But back to the point of this posting is if you truly balance racial passives to be lore friendly the end result may be far worse than what we are currently looking at. Would everyone be happier if they took out racial passives all together and threw in just a race flavor bonus with no combat implications essentially making race nothing more than a cosmetic thing? If you want true any race any role that is only way you will get absolute balance. I highly doubt any players would really want that in the game. As it stands looking at eso as a whole and not just nit picking a few passive bonuses races will be the more balanced when patch goes live then they have been since launch. Final note this is not the final game update we are ever gonna see so who knows how future patches are going to affect these current changes coming to the game. Every patch in the past brought changes that is an undeniable truth and will be true next patches. What is also true players have learned and adapted to past changes and will undoubtedly adapt to these and future changes. If you don’t like balancing changes go play a solo game this is an mmo and the developers can’t cater to everyone if they did dk would have a stam whip now just for example.

Actually according to testing done Altmer was not the universal BIS, in Liko´s testing for magblade and magplar altmer wasnt on top on either, pretty strange that one of the best dps players in the world hasnt got the "top Damage and Sustain race for mag toons" Altmer, you know on top of dps parses.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455486/dps-comparison-of-races-on-magplar-on-pts4-3-0-tests-graphs-and-Analysis
If you look here you will notice that Altmer isnt on the top either while admitting that Breton hasnt been tested to their full potential and is barely 400 dps behind.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown/p1
Here Bretons are actually ahead of Altmer, really strange for the BIS magicka race.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1
Here Breton is ahead of Altmer aswell, kinda seeing a pattern here that the oh so strong BIS magicka race actually isnt first on any of these Tests.
Saying that Altmer with the 4.3.0 Iteration of spell recharge would be the top Sustain race is wrong, a 190 mag regen passive assuming perfect uptime which you will never have doesnt match Breton so yeah there goes being the best magicka Sustain race. Could you have tweaked the magicka restore of spell recharge? Sure you could´ve lowered it but removing it outright isnt the right approach either. Imo if even necessary, it couldve been lowered to give a 100 mag recovery on full potential to match the first Breton passive, seeing as Breton gets the same max mag as Altmer for Damage. What you are also conveniently forgetting is that a flat magicka recovery Bonus like Bretons have scales with light armor passives and CP unlike the old Iteration of spell recharge.

First test isn’t really reliable due to changing the food on Breton from every other race so that’s not really reliable data same issue on second link using different foods. Last link testing 2 classes and making assumptions on the other classes less than reliable you have provided 3 links to data that wouldn’t actually stand in a court of law if this was a legal case. Nice try though. But hey you provided data so go you. But hey straight from the devs:

The main focus of High Elves are their ability to deal high amounts of damage or healing with Magicka-based abilities, and this sustain passive was helping them stand ahead of too many other races that also deal heavily with Magicka-based abilities. We've shifted this over to a utility passive, and slightly increased it

But ya let’s not trust devs right I mean they didn’t cave or anything with giving shields a cast time due to player complaints but for some reason are sticking to the spell recharge change so something must not add up somewhere.

So just because the devs said it, it must be true? But actual objective tests are somehow wrong.

Are these players posting this data the only users on pts? Is this the last game patch we are ever gonna see for this game? You yourself has said about people having agendas. Can you prove these links of data are infact legit tests and said users aren’t altering anything to change data to fit their personal narrative? Hey what do I know though I’m just another player with an agenda right not that I have any big ties to this whole racial debate. My agenda is people only wanna take into account the small things instead of looking at the whole picture. Answer this honestly please. Are the dps parses that have been linked nearly similar numbers within 1-2% of each other? If this is a yes that is balance like it or not

BattleAxe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

You do realize the way the passive was before changing it on any class would have left altmer top damage and sustain race on mag toons right? But the issue coming up is as it stands all races are pretty well balanced around each other but certain players want to keep a status quo. But back to the point of this posting is if you truly balance racial passives to be lore friendly the end result may be far worse than what we are currently looking at. Would everyone be happier if they took out racial passives all together and threw in just a race flavor bonus with no combat implications essentially making race nothing more than a cosmetic thing? If you want true any race any role that is only way you will get absolute balance. I highly doubt any players would really want that in the game. As it stands looking at eso as a whole and not just nit picking a few passive bonuses races will be the more balanced when patch goes live then they have been since launch. Final note this is not the final game update we are ever gonna see so who knows how future patches are going to affect these current changes coming to the game. Every patch in the past brought changes that is an undeniable truth and will be true next patches. What is also true players have learned and adapted to past changes and will undoubtedly adapt to these and future changes. If you don’t like balancing changes go play a solo game this is an mmo and the developers can’t cater to everyone if they did dk would have a stam whip now just for example.

Actually according to testing done Altmer was not the universal BIS, in Liko´s testing for magblade and magplar altmer wasnt on top on either, pretty strange that one of the best dps players in the world hasnt got the "top Damage and Sustain race for mag toons" Altmer, you know on top of dps parses.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455486/dps-comparison-of-races-on-magplar-on-pts4-3-0-tests-graphs-and-Analysis
If you look here you will notice that Altmer isnt on the top either while admitting that Breton hasnt been tested to their full potential and is barely 400 dps behind.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown/p1
Here Bretons are actually ahead of Altmer, really strange for the BIS magicka race.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1
Here Breton is ahead of Altmer aswell, kinda seeing a pattern here that the oh so strong BIS magicka race actually isnt first on any of these Tests.
Saying that Altmer with the 4.3.0 Iteration of spell recharge would be the top Sustain race is wrong, a 190 mag regen passive assuming perfect uptime which you will never have doesnt match Breton so yeah there goes being the best magicka Sustain race. Could you have tweaked the magicka restore of spell recharge? Sure you could´ve lowered it but removing it outright isnt the right approach either. Imo if even necessary, it couldve been lowered to give a 100 mag recovery on full potential to match the first Breton passive, seeing as Breton gets the same max mag as Altmer for Damage. What you are also conveniently forgetting is that a flat magicka recovery Bonus like Bretons have scales with light armor passives and CP unlike the old Iteration of spell recharge.

First test isn’t really reliable due to changing the food on Breton from every other race so that’s not really reliable data same issue on second link using different foods. Last link testing 2 classes and making assumptions on the other classes less than reliable you have provided 3 links to data that wouldn’t actually stand in a court of law if this was a legal case. Nice try though. But hey you provided data so go you. But hey straight from the devs:

The main focus of High Elves are their ability to deal high amounts of damage or healing with Magicka-based abilities, and this sustain passive was helping them stand ahead of too many other races that also deal heavily with Magicka-based abilities. We've shifted this over to a utility passive, and slightly increased it

But ya let’s not trust devs right I mean they didn’t cave or anything with giving shields a cast time due to player complaints but for some reason are sticking to the spell recharge change so something must not add up somewhere.

So just because the devs said it, it must be true? But actual objective tests are somehow wrong.

Are these players posting this data the only users on pts? Is this the last game patch we are ever gonna see for this game? You yourself has said about people having agendas. Can you prove these links of data are infact legit tests and said users aren’t altering anything to change data to fit their personal narrative? Hey what do I know though I’m just another player with an agenda right not that I have any big ties to this whole racial debate. My agenda is people only wanna take into account the small things instead of looking at the whole picture. Answer this honestly please. Are the dps parses that have been linked nearly similar numbers within 1-2% of each other? If this is a yes that is balance like it or not

You do realize how easy it would be to expose someone altering test data, right? The PUBLIC test server is open to everyone.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

First test isn’t really reliable due to changing the food on Breton from every other race so that’s not really reliable data same issue on second link using different foods. Last link testing 2 classes and making assumptions on the other classes less than reliable you have provided 3 links to data that wouldn’t actually stand in a court of law if this was a legal case. Nice try though. But hey you provided data so go you. But hey straight from the devs:

The main focus of High Elves are their ability to deal high amounts of damage or healing with Magicka-based abilities, and this sustain passive was helping them stand ahead of too many other races that also deal heavily with Magicka-based abilities. We've shifted this over to a utility passive, and slightly increased it

But ya let’s not trust devs right I mean they didn’t cave or anything with giving shields a cast time due to player complaints but for some reason are sticking to the spell recharge change so something must not add up somewhere.

So according to you using the strengths of a race isnt reliable testing????????????? If that is your opinion good for you but these people know what they are doing, aka using different Food on Breton because they can Sustain it and it increases their Damage aka testing how much Damage you can get out of each race but yeah not reliable testing. Also showing 2 classes where altmer isnt ahead of Breton isnt assuming Altmer is worse for other classes, it is simply stating the fact that Altmer performs worse on those 2 classes thus negating your claim of Altmer being the best Magicka race for every class.

Second of all comparing this to a court of law is incredibly delusional but hey go you. (Also ignoring the fact that you didnt present any evidence at all to your claim and then telling me that the evidence I give you is wrong because you cannot comprehend how testing works and all the while assuming that your claim is right and doesnt need any evidence but hey go you)

And you know what also came from the devs despite the community telling them that it would be incredibly stupid to release? Sloads pre nerf, rending and other dots proccing torugs infused enchants before nerf, summerset pvp magsorc that had to take a big amount of nerfs because being released as strong as they were and musnt forget removing templars major mending passive because it was too strong and in the same patch giving it to wardens to sell the morrowind chapter but yeah the devs are infallible and never make bad decisions and are only looking for true balance LOL.

Yes Bretons already have sustain but this is a dps test and considering max magicka also increases damage the numbers are gonna be off you think if you give the altmer the max magicka food their damage isn’t gonna go up just like Bretons. i Will give you this will mean altmer will have to have a perfect rotation or run out of magicka. As you stated these players know what they are doing so having a perfect rotation shouldn’t be to hard right? I gain nothing whether altmers spell recharge stays as is or gets reverted or changed again last minute. What I won’t sit here and take is watching people go off on one detail without taking the whole game into account. Each races has resource management built in and if you look at all those combined with the original altmer passive yes altmer would out perform most other mag races. But hey what do I know right I’m delusional for looking at more than just one minor racial passive. Comparing this to a court of law isn’t delusional cause in respects all are innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and in every thread about altmers spell recharge people have presented a lot of information that would and could create reasonable doubt. Presenting evidence now that is the thing right anti altmer change people provide all this data the people refute but is provided over and over. I never once said the devs are infallible so try again before putting words in my mouth my dude. As you stated all those things place into the game players said shouldn’t be have been nerfed. I know devs don’t give the community everything we want cause and point aka evidence stam dk stam whip. True balance is never gonna be a thing in any mmo there will always be a meta. Also in an mmo the meta does change with in game changes so is the meta changing possibly possibly not. Either way I gain nothing out of this besides a game to play when I have the time. Hey let’s make a mountain out of this when if altmer players really cared about balance over being master race they would champion for bosmer and argonians to get some attention but not once in most of the threads I’ve read about disliking the altmers passive did anyone champion for bosmers and argonians but hey balance right.

BattleAxe wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

First test isn’t really reliable due to changing the food on Breton from every other race so that’s not really reliable data same issue on second link using different foods. Last link testing 2 classes and making assumptions on the other classes less than reliable you have provided 3 links to data that wouldn’t actually stand in a court of law if this was a legal case. Nice try though. But hey you provided data so go you. But hey straight from the devs:

The main focus of High Elves are their ability to deal high amounts of damage or healing with Magicka-based abilities, and this sustain passive was helping them stand ahead of too many other races that also deal heavily with Magicka-based abilities. We've shifted this over to a utility passive, and slightly increased it

But ya let’s not trust devs right I mean they didn’t cave or anything with giving shields a cast time due to player complaints but for some reason are sticking to the spell recharge change so something must not add up somewhere.

So according to you using the strengths of a race isnt reliable testing????????????? If that is your opinion good for you but these people know what they are doing, aka using different Food on Breton because they can Sustain it and it increases their Damage aka testing how much Damage you can get out of each race but yeah not reliable testing. Also showing 2 classes where altmer isnt ahead of Breton isnt assuming Altmer is worse for other classes, it is simply stating the fact that Altmer performs worse on those 2 classes thus negating your claim of Altmer being the best Magicka race for every class.

Second of all comparing this to a court of law is incredibly delusional but hey go you. (Also ignoring the fact that you didnt present any evidence at all to your claim and then telling me that the evidence I give you is wrong because you cannot comprehend how testing works and all the while assuming that your claim is right and doesnt need any evidence but hey go you)

And you know what also came from the devs despite the community telling them that it would be incredibly stupid to release? Sloads pre nerf, rending and other dots proccing torugs infused enchants before nerf, summerset pvp magsorc that had to take a big amount of nerfs because being released as strong as they were and musnt forget removing templars major mending passive because it was too strong and in the same patch giving it to wardens to sell the morrowind chapter but yeah the devs are infallible and never make bad decisions and are only looking for true balance LOL.

Yes Bretons already have sustain but this is a dps test and considering max magicka also increases damage the numbers are gonna be off you think if you give the altmer the max magicka food their damage isn’t gonna go up just like Bretons.

You do realize that you can't complete a DPS test with blue food and berserker/shock glyph on an Altmer, right? Even with orbs/shards, you still need sustain food or an absorb glyph. Your posts make it painfully obvious you don't do any endgame PvE.

BattleAxe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

First test isn’t really reliable due to changing the food on Breton from every other race so that’s not really reliable data same issue on second link using different foods. Last link testing 2 classes and making assumptions on the other classes less than reliable you have provided 3 links to data that wouldn’t actually stand in a court of law if this was a legal case. Nice try though. But hey you provided data so go you. But hey straight from the devs:

The main focus of High Elves are their ability to deal high amounts of damage or healing with Magicka-based abilities, and this sustain passive was helping them stand ahead of too many other races that also deal heavily with Magicka-based abilities. We've shifted this over to a utility passive, and slightly increased it

But ya let’s not trust devs right I mean they didn’t cave or anything with giving shields a cast time due to player complaints but for some reason are sticking to the spell recharge change so something must not add up somewhere.

So according to you using the strengths of a race isnt reliable testing????????????? If that is your opinion good for you but these people know what they are doing, aka using different Food on Breton because they can Sustain it and it increases their Damage aka testing how much Damage you can get out of each race but yeah not reliable testing. Also showing 2 classes where altmer isnt ahead of Breton isnt assuming Altmer is worse for other classes, it is simply stating the fact that Altmer performs worse on those 2 classes thus negating your claim of Altmer being the best Magicka race for every class.

Second of all comparing this to a court of law is incredibly delusional but hey go you. (Also ignoring the fact that you didnt present any evidence at all to your claim and then telling me that the evidence I give you is wrong because you cannot comprehend how testing works and all the while assuming that your claim is right and doesnt need any evidence but hey go you)

And you know what also came from the devs despite the community telling them that it would be incredibly stupid to release? Sloads pre nerf, rending and other dots proccing torugs infused enchants before nerf, summerset pvp magsorc that had to take a big amount of nerfs because being released as strong as they were and musnt forget removing templars major mending passive because it was too strong and in the same patch giving it to wardens to sell the morrowind chapter but yeah the devs are infallible and never make bad decisions and are only looking for true balance LOL.

Yes Bretons already have sustain but this is a dps test and considering max magicka also increases damage the numbers are gonna be off you think if you give the altmer the max magicka food their damage isn’t gonna go up just like Bretons.

You do realize that you can't complete a DPS test with blue food and berserker/shock glyph on an Altmer, right? Even with orbs/shards, you still need sustain food or an absorb glyph. Your posts make it painfully obvious you don't do any endgame PvE.

Funny you assume I don’t do any endgame pve. And yes Breton again has sustain but you are failing to also take into account how much damage will be added with max magicka food which will increase damage done more damage means less skills need used which brings sustain down in importance. If we are the same class same rotation same magicka pool same gear but I have more spell damage whose gonna hit harder to simplify this debate down

You keep talking about blue food (on races with no sustain) and heavy attacks. Anyone who does endgame knows that sustain food/absorb glyphs are mandatory and that heavy attacks should be avoided as much as possible.

Your argument also makes zero sense. Fights in this game last over several minutes. The only way for a race without inherent sustain to sustain the fight is with gold food/absorb glyphs. There is no PvE scenario where they won't need one or the other.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

First test isn’t really reliable due to changing the food on Breton from every other race so that’s not really reliable data same issue on second link using different foods. Last link testing 2 classes and making assumptions on the other classes less than reliable you have provided 3 links to data that wouldn’t actually stand in a court of law if this was a legal case. Nice try though. But hey you provided data so go you. But hey straight from the devs:

The main focus of High Elves are their ability to deal high amounts of damage or healing with Magicka-based abilities, and this sustain passive was helping them stand ahead of too many other races that also deal heavily with Magicka-based abilities. We've shifted this over to a utility passive, and slightly increased it

But ya let’s not trust devs right I mean they didn’t cave or anything with giving shields a cast time due to player complaints but for some reason are sticking to the spell recharge change so something must not add up somewhere.

So according to you using the strengths of a race isnt reliable testing????????????? If that is your opinion good for you but these people know what they are doing, aka using different Food on Breton because they can Sustain it and it increases their Damage aka testing how much Damage you can get out of each race but yeah not reliable testing. Also showing 2 classes where altmer isnt ahead of Breton isnt assuming Altmer is worse for other classes, it is simply stating the fact that Altmer performs worse on those 2 classes thus negating your claim of Altmer being the best Magicka race for every class.

Second of all comparing this to a court of law is incredibly delusional but hey go you. (Also ignoring the fact that you didnt present any evidence at all to your claim and then telling me that the evidence I give you is wrong because you cannot comprehend how testing works and all the while assuming that your claim is right and doesnt need any evidence but hey go you)

And you know what also came from the devs despite the community telling them that it would be incredibly stupid to release? Sloads pre nerf, rending and other dots proccing torugs infused enchants before nerf, summerset pvp magsorc that had to take a big amount of nerfs because being released as strong as they were and musnt forget removing templars major mending passive because it was too strong and in the same patch giving it to wardens to sell the morrowind chapter but yeah the devs are infallible and never make bad decisions and are only looking for true balance LOL.

Yes Bretons already have sustain but this is a dps test and considering max magicka also increases damage the numbers are gonna be off you think if you give the altmer the max magicka food their damage isn’t gonna go up just like Bretons.

You do realize that you can't complete a DPS test with blue food and berserker/shock glyph on an Altmer, right? Even with orbs/shards, you still need sustain food or an absorb glyph. Your posts make it painfully obvious you don't do any endgame PvE.

Funny you assume I don’t do any endgame pve. And yes Breton again has sustain but you are failing to also take into account how much damage will be added with max magicka food which will increase damage done more damage means less skills need used which brings sustain down in importance. If we are the same class same rotation same magicka pool same gear but I have more spell damage whose gonna hit harder to simplify this debate down

You keep talking about blue food (on races with no sustain) and heavy attacks. Anyone who does endgame knows that sustain food/absorb glyphs are mandatory and that heavy attacks should be avoided as much as possible.

Your argument also makes zero sense. Fights in this game last over several minutes. The only way for a race without inherent sustain to sustain the fight is with gold food/absorb glyphs. There is no PvE scenario where they won't need one or the other.

So you are gonna tell me absolutely every player is running the exact same gear completing end game content? Every player uses the exact same rotation?

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

First test isn’t really reliable due to changing the food on Breton from every other race so that’s not really reliable data same issue on second link using different foods. Last link testing 2 classes and making assumptions on the other classes less than reliable you have provided 3 links to data that wouldn’t actually stand in a court of law if this was a legal case. Nice try though. But hey you provided data so go you. But hey straight from the devs:

The main focus of High Elves are their ability to deal high amounts of damage or healing with Magicka-based abilities, and this sustain passive was helping them stand ahead of too many other races that also deal heavily with Magicka-based abilities. We've shifted this over to a utility passive, and slightly increased it

But ya let’s not trust devs right I mean they didn’t cave or anything with giving shields a cast time due to player complaints but for some reason are sticking to the spell recharge change so something must not add up somewhere.

So according to you using the strengths of a race isnt reliable testing????????????? If that is your opinion good for you but these people know what they are doing, aka using different Food on Breton because they can Sustain it and it increases their Damage aka testing how much Damage you can get out of each race but yeah not reliable testing. Also showing 2 classes where altmer isnt ahead of Breton isnt assuming Altmer is worse for other classes, it is simply stating the fact that Altmer performs worse on those 2 classes thus negating your claim of Altmer being the best Magicka race for every class.

Second of all comparing this to a court of law is incredibly delusional but hey go you. (Also ignoring the fact that you didnt present any evidence at all to your claim and then telling me that the evidence I give you is wrong because you cannot comprehend how testing works and all the while assuming that your claim is right and doesnt need any evidence but hey go you)

And you know what also came from the devs despite the community telling them that it would be incredibly stupid to release? Sloads pre nerf, rending and other dots proccing torugs infused enchants before nerf, summerset pvp magsorc that had to take a big amount of nerfs because being released as strong as they were and musnt forget removing templars major mending passive because it was too strong and in the same patch giving it to wardens to sell the morrowind chapter but yeah the devs are infallible and never make bad decisions and are only looking for true balance LOL.

Yes Bretons already have sustain but this is a dps test and considering max magicka also increases damage the numbers are gonna be off you think if you give the altmer the max magicka food their damage isn’t gonna go up just like Bretons.

You do realize that you can't complete a DPS test with blue food and berserker/shock glyph on an Altmer, right? Even with orbs/shards, you still need sustain food or an absorb glyph. Your posts make it painfully obvious you don't do any endgame PvE.

Funny you assume I don’t do any endgame pve. And yes Breton again has sustain but you are failing to also take into account how much damage will be added with max magicka food which will increase damage done more damage means less skills need used which brings sustain down in importance. If we are the same class same rotation same magicka pool same gear but I have more spell damage whose gonna hit harder to simplify this debate down

You keep talking about blue food (on races with no sustain) and heavy attacks. Anyone who does endgame knows that sustain food/absorb glyphs are mandatory and that heavy attacks should be avoided as much as possible.

Your argument also makes zero sense. Fights in this game last over several minutes. The only way for a race without inherent sustain to sustain the fight is with gold food/absorb glyphs. There is no PvE scenario where they won't need one or the other.

So you are gonna tell me absolutely every player is running the exact same gear completing end game content? Every player uses the exact same rotation?

Are you arguing that there are builds/rotations that don't require sustain food/absorb glyphs and can also hit top DPS? Because if you are, you must be the top ranked player in the world because no one else knows about this.

I’m not gonna say I’m top ranked player in the world but for theory crafting I’m ahead of the curve. You see the thing with this game is when you look at the game as a whole and not just 1 or 2 passives you would find you can create strong builds. Might not be the meta build but if it competes in end game.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

The point of this is all the complaining about the altmer race when other races are hit much harder and have much more reason to be upset. Altmer is within top tier for dps competing with Breton. I have nothing to gain or lose arguing or debating about altmer. The main 3 characters I play aren’t really changed by any race changes to be honest. My whole reason for getting into these debates is as I’ve said before people are looking at a flower and forgetting the entire garden

Here´s the thing tho, if you go into a thread that has Altmer passives in its title then you should expect that people are gonna be talking about Altmer. I am much more invested into Altmer than into any of the other races so saying that I shouldnt complain about a nonsensical change made to my main race because other races get changes too is a really unnecessary thing to say. Other races being worse off doesnt change the fact that this change is bad for many Altmer players and other races being worse off doesnt mean that we are not allowed to complain about it. I really dont know where that attitude is coming from and what you are expecting when you enter a thread that has Altmer passive in its title.

Nothing to u personally but I have been on many of the threads and there are players complaining about altmer that when presented with a reasonable argument change the rules of comparison and it is a recipe that may bring about changes that not just a portion of the player base will dislike but eso community as a whole. I’ve also made a suggestion or 2 of possible changes to appease the altmer outrage. So I’m not trying to give any attitude I’m just taking a neutral stance and looking at eso as a whole and not just the sub strain of racial passives

Another forum I’m on I just made another altmer suggestion that may be agreeable but rest of altmer spell recharge stays as is just add when using a class skill grant 1-2 second cc immunity

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Nothing to u personally but I have been on many of the threads and there are players complaining about altmer that when presented with a reasonable argument change the rules of comparison and it is a recipe that may bring about changes that not just a portion of the player base will dislike but eso community as a whole. I’ve also made a suggestion or 2 of possible changes to appease the altmer outrage. So I’m not trying to give any attitude I’m just taking a neutral stance and looking at eso as a whole and not just the sub strain of racial passives

Another forum I’m on I just made another altmer suggestion that may be agreeable but rest of altmer spell recharge stays as is just add when using a class skill grant 1-2 second cc immunity

Honestly the suggestion presented here might be too strong in PvP.
While I cant speak for other people obviously I am just trying to argue that having something of a magicka return wouldnt make Altmer as strong as many people seem to think, I DONT want Altmer to become the race reigning surpreme over all but I dont want a passive that doesnt make any sense for an Altmer to have either. The Stamina is something you will very rarely make use of in PvE and in PvP you would build for Stamina sustain previously while having somewhat of a bonus to your magicka recovery while with the new passive the freed up room from an improved stam recovery is something you simply might have to reinvest into magicka recovery so nothing really changes in that regard.
What you could do to change the passive is to make it somewhat akin to luminous shards Synergy, where you regain your highest resource and a lower amount of your secondary resource, just in reverse. While I personally dont like the Stamina return atleast there would be something of a magicka return if ZOS is really set into the passive not being able to restore primarily magicka/main stat.

It was mentioned about the cc immunity and to offset its power give it a decent CD time

Galarthor wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Nothing to u personally but I have been on many of the threads and there are players complaining about altmer that when presented with a reasonable argument change the rules of comparison and it is a recipe that may bring about changes that not just a portion of the player base will dislike but eso community as a whole. I’ve also made a suggestion or 2 of possible changes to appease the altmer outrage. So I’m not trying to give any attitude I’m just taking a neutral stance and looking at eso as a whole and not just the sub strain of racial passives

Another forum I’m on I just made another altmer suggestion that may be agreeable but rest of altmer spell recharge stays as is just add when using a class skill grant 1-2 second cc immunity

Honestly the suggestion presented here might be too strong in PvP.
While I cant speak for other people obviously I am just trying to argue that having something of a magicka return wouldnt make Altmer as strong as many people seem to think, I DONT want Altmer to become the race reigning surpreme over all but I dont want a passive that doesnt make any sense for an Altmer to have either. The Stamina is something you will very rarely make use of in PvE and in PvP you would build for Stamina sustain previously while having somewhat of a bonus to your magicka recovery while with the new passive the freed up room from an improved stam recovery is something you simply might have to reinvest into magicka recovery so nothing really changes in that regard.
What you could do to change the passive is to make it somewhat akin to luminous shards Synergy, where you regain your highest resource and a lower amount of your secondary resource, just in reverse. While I personally dont like the Stamina return atleast there would be something of a magicka return if ZOS is really set into the passive not being able to restore primarily magicka/main stat.

It was mentioned about the cc immunity and to offset its power give it a decent CD time

No CD in CC immunity. There is no CD on magicka-susceptibility either! If you are immune then you are immune - same as with the status effects immunities of some races.

This is talking about giving altmer an addition to spell recharge when casting a class skill grants the lowest maximum resource and 1-2 seconds of cc immunity which the cc immunity from this passive can only proc once every say 30 seconds

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

BattleAxe wrote: »

You do realize the way the passive was before changing it on any class would have left altmer top damage and sustain race on mag toons right? But the issue coming up is as it stands all races are pretty well balanced around each other but certain players want to keep a status quo. But back to the point of this posting is if you truly balance racial passives to be lore friendly the end result may be far worse than what we are currently looking at. Would everyone be happier if they took out racial passives all together and threw in just a race flavor bonus with no combat implications essentially making race nothing more than a cosmetic thing? If you want true any race any role that is only way you will get absolute balance. I highly doubt any players would really want that in the game. As it stands looking at eso as a whole and not just nit picking a few passive bonuses races will be the more balanced when patch goes live then they have been since launch. Final note this is not the final game update we are ever gonna see so who knows how future patches are going to affect these current changes coming to the game. Every patch in the past brought changes that is an undeniable truth and will be true next patches. What is also true players have learned and adapted to past changes and will undoubtedly adapt to these and future changes. If you don’t like balancing changes go play a solo game this is an mmo and the developers can’t cater to everyone if they did dk would have a stam whip now just for example.

Actually according to testing done Altmer was not the universal BIS, in Liko´s testing for magblade and magplar altmer wasnt on top on either, pretty strange that one of the best dps players in the world hasnt got the "top Damage and Sustain race for mag toons" Altmer, you know on top of dps parses.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455486/dps-comparison-of-races-on-magplar-on-pts4-3-0-tests-graphs-and-Analysis
If you look here you will notice that Altmer isnt on the top either while admitting that Breton hasnt been tested to their full potential and is barely 400 dps behind.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown/p1
Here Bretons are actually ahead of Altmer, really strange for the BIS magicka race.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/455092/raid-buffed-dps-comparison-of-each-race-by-class-tests-graphs-interpretation-and-final-score/p1
Here Breton is ahead of Altmer aswell, kinda seeing a pattern here that the oh so strong BIS magicka race actually isnt first on any of these Tests.
Saying that Altmer with the 4.3.0 Iteration of spell recharge would be the top Sustain race is wrong, a 190 mag regen passive assuming perfect uptime which you will never have doesnt match Breton so yeah there goes being the best magicka Sustain race. Could you have tweaked the magicka restore of spell recharge? Sure you could´ve lowered it but removing it outright isnt the right approach either. Imo if even necessary, it couldve been lowered to give a 100 mag recovery on full potential to match the first Breton passive, seeing as Breton gets the same max mag as Altmer for Damage. What you are also conveniently forgetting is that a flat magicka recovery Bonus like Bretons have scales with light armor passives and CP unlike the old Iteration of spell recharge.

First test isn’t really reliable due to changing the food on Breton from every other race so that’s not really reliable data same issue on second link using different foods. Last link testing 2 classes and making assumptions on the other classes less than reliable you have provided 3 links to data that wouldn’t actually stand in a court of law if this was a legal case. Nice try though. But hey you provided data so go you. But hey straight from the devs:

The main focus of High Elves are their ability to deal high amounts of damage or healing with Magicka-based abilities, and this sustain passive was helping them stand ahead of too many other races that also deal heavily with Magicka-based abilities. We've shifted this over to a utility passive, and slightly increased it

But ya let’s not trust devs right I mean they didn’t cave or anything with giving shields a cast time due to player complaints but for some reason are sticking to the spell recharge change so something must not add up somewhere.

So just because the devs said it, it must be true? But actual objective tests are somehow wrong.

Are these players posting this data the only users on pts? Is this the last game patch we are ever gonna see for this game? You yourself has said about people having agendas. Can you prove these links of data are infact legit tests and said users aren’t altering anything to change data to fit their personal narrative? Hey what do I know though I’m just another player with an agenda right not that I have any big ties to this whole racial debate. My agenda is people only wanna take into account the small things instead of looking at the whole picture. Answer this honestly please. Are the dps parses that have been linked nearly similar numbers within 1-2% of each other? If this is a yes that is balance like it or not

You do realize how easy it would be to expose someone altering test data, right? The PUBLIC test server is open to everyone.

Except console players...................

Okay? We want Altmer to be lore friendly, so be it:
- 10% more damage taken from spells.
- Permanent 2310 Disease resistance along with immunity to Defiled status effect.
- Permanent Immunity to stun.

I would gladly take more damage from spells in order to gain stun immunity. So go ahead, make Altmers lore friendly.