Anyron wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

argonians are fine where they at if argonian will get a buff again everyone will be a lizard.
You can still play argonian be at least happy that their passives are very unquie compared to the rest. Even if the dps is short a couple thousands than the rest they still got good resource pool and substain healing when they need it.

Maybe it is couple of thousands, but still it is. That means there is aways space to do something for their dps without "making them OP"

But yes, 500 more magicka means then can wreck you is second.
500 magicka is SO MUCH OP, man

Seraphayel wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

One of the #1 reasons races are even going through race rebalancing right now is because of how much Argonian was overperforming. Pvp players all switching to Argonian because of the burst sustain, healing, and immunity to major defile from disease damage. Every PvE tanking or healing build posted by streamers like Alcast centered around being Argonian because of the huge advantage in being able to sustain with low recovery stats. The developers themselves stated that Argonian was mathematically twice as good as other races.

Argonian has always been at the bottom for top PvE DPS just like Nord is for Stamina. Argonian and Nord get their advantages from increased survivabilty, sustain, and healing making them top choices at other roles. And in PvP dps differences between the races continues to mean very little, that's why Argonian was able to overperform with only 3% Magicka. Argonian will remain a competitive pvp choice.

Not anymore. Bretons are top both healers and damage

If you say argonians are under-powered no one will take you serious. Argonian is second top PVP race now. Do you think everyone is noob or fools that crying in forums by false-fully lying and representing PVE will make others agree ?

People already outraged so many times, ZOs took so long to nerf it . Its L2P issue. Thats it. Dont waste your time.

Save l2p for yourself. I am not lying. I gave you real numbers from other players
All i posted there you can read again on top of this discussion.

Also i speak about PVE DPS ARGONIAN. I don't care about someone said pvp somewhere and now suddenly this is pvp discussion.

Why would you pick Argonian if you cared so much about PvE DPS?

Either you like Argonian as a race and can deal with them being 2k DPS behind other races or you clearly picked them because they're strength in PvP.

Either way you never picked them because of their great performance as PvE DPS.

Anyron wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

One of the #1 reasons races are even going through race rebalancing right now is because of how much Argonian was overperforming. Pvp players all switching to Argonian because of the burst sustain, healing, and immunity to major defile from disease damage. Every PvE tanking or healing build posted by streamers like Alcast centered around being Argonian because of the huge advantage in being able to sustain with low recovery stats. The developers themselves stated that Argonian was mathematically twice as good as other races.

Argonian has always been at the bottom for top PvE DPS just like Nord is for Stamina. Argonian and Nord get their advantages from increased survivabilty, sustain, and healing making them top choices at other roles. And in PvP dps differences between the races continues to mean very little, that's why Argonian was able to overperform with only 3% Magicka. Argonian will remain a competitive pvp choice.

Not anymore. Bretons are top both healers and damage

If you say argonians are under-powered no one will take you serious. Argonian is second top PVP race now. Do you think everyone is noob or fools that crying in forums by false-fully lying and representing PVE will make others agree ?

People already outraged so many times, ZOs took so long to nerf it . Its L2P issue. Thats it. Dont waste your time.

Save l2p for yourself. I am not lying. I gave you real numbers from other players
All i posted there you can read again on top of this discussion.

Also i speak about PVE DPS ARGONIAN. I don't care about someone said pvp somewhere and now suddenly this is pvp discussion.

Why would you pick Argonian if you cared so much about PvE DPS?

Either you like Argonian as a race and can deal with them being 2k DPS behind other races or you clearly picked them because they're strength in PvP.

Either way you never picked them because of their great performance as PvE DPS.

Yes, i play argonians in all Elder scrolls games. They are my favourite race.

Do you wanna know why i push so much to zos for making them at least as strong as are other dps? Ofc because i play dps but thats not only reason.
I play argonian since eso started and i do remember how they were seriously weak as race.

Now, when there could be something like completely new racial sistem, we got nothing but nerfs. Other races ( even altmer or Imperial ) got something new, something they can use. But argonians still have same old shi*. Useless shi*. If resourceful is used in pve, my other stats than magicka are full so i get only magicka.
You said they are OP in pvp. But why is that? Because of resourceful? You think nerfing resourceful from 4,6k to 4k somehow hurts me?

I would be glad if they remove that useless *** and give something else

Right now in pve i have 1k magicka, 1k health, 6% healing and 4k magicka regen -when i drink potion. Thats all. Thats all i have and argonians are magicka race. If i played stamina, ok. But you don't think that race which is last in magicka dps and have no stats to stam dps deserve at least 500 more magicka?

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Only thing they removed is healing taken. First agree that argonian is OP in PVP in live server. If not nothing to discuss further. Even now they're pretty strong in PVP but not cheese race anymore. Everyone who played argonian know they will be nerfed one day to be inline with other races. I don't bother to discuss with people who intentionally provide false information.

Orc replaces argonian as cheese race.Only thing that requires very serious discussion is Orc. Rest we can talk about minor adjustments.

They nerfed the potion passive for PvP and left the PvE side of things unbalanced. Argonian's performance in every aspect of the game was nerfed and are now suffering because of it. In PvP, being an Argonian meant trading away the damage of another race for more utility. That utility has been reduced substantially but nothing was added to help bring the damage portion up to par for those changes. THAT'S MY ISSUE!!! It has nothing to be with being the best at something but rather balancing off what Argonian lost by providing it with something to help it out in other ways, which did not happen.

Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Seriously stop complaining lol. Me and my wife are imperial healers since launch of game and we have healed everything, so don't say you can't who cares if you are not the best at something. The fact is player skill> passives. We have 0 buffs at all from our imperial healers but yet we are fine so I think you will be.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the best tanks in the game is a khajit before this update again not bis but they have skill so it works.

Stop trying to be an elitist over fractions and just play the race you like. Yeah they could have did some more changes but then classes become way to op and argonians are one of those races due to pvp. There's a reason why you see a lot of argonians when you pvp right now on live

Your Imperial Healers got buffed by getting magic sustain and universal cost reduction to everything; Your race became better healers this patch than you've ever been before so how can you judge others when they got shafted? I never said you couldn't heal or Tank on any race. I said the exact opposite actually and said that, prior to these changes, anyone could Tank and be completely competitive. Competitive is the key word here, as in terms of Tanking, competitive gaming has now been removed from 8/10 Races by the buffs to Imperial and Nord, which is a problem in my eyes. Breton is the same for Healers as the extra sustain means Breton have provide more group utility with more frequent shard/orbs, Combat Prayer, etc usage than the next best race.

Have you actually spoken to any of those PvPers? Even on the forums, just talking with anyone that race changed into an Argonian for PvP purposes and most of them will tell you the same thing. They noticed a drop in damage and the "God Tier" potion passive has been overestimated. Those that deny this don't play Argonians and are just mimicking the words of Streamers that state this as some sort of fact, when in actuality the only thing that is powerful about it is the fact they abused sets like Fury to face tank everything and return the damage in kind, something anyone can do since those sets are OP. I personally don't give a damn about the potion passive. It's never made me feel stronger than another race because I got back some of my off-resources, if anything I felt handicapped because the off-resource did nothing for me in most situations. I'd always have to pop a potion just to try and keep up with races that already had that stat regen and any downtime meant my sustain was often worse than other races in any real PvP application. It was limited for builds designed solely to outlast your opponent, making it perfect for sets like Fury that built onto that mindset but not so much for anything else. Try running an Argonian Stamblade for a day and see if that passive saves you at all; I'd be willing to bet money that you melt just as quickly as any other race.

Lol you know I said I've been imperial for 5 years as a healer right? What I get now is 12% health, 10% stam and a stupid red diamond lolol. I can't take what you say seriously one bit because you clearly don't even know imperial. The nunbers have been run and imperial even with their new passives has less sastain than argonian.

I see argonian stam, tank, and magic all the time. They are everywhere. Are we even playing the same game? Or are you playing Tetris in your head while everyone else plays eso?

Argonians get 6% healing and potion passive while having 1000 magic that is way better than imperials 333 a tick while doing direct damage and it still won't equal what you have I didn't think it was hard to see the difference but I guess I needed to put them together for you to see the difference.

The order of best healers will be Breton with reduction and magic and recovery, and argonian with magic, potion passive for sustain, and 6% healing as the top 2 dunmer and altmir have no sustain they are not gonna be best healers. But again they will work just won't be for bis

And after 5 years, you're getting buffed. The 2k flat Stamina will be better than the 10% you currently get as a Healer, unless your Max Stamina SOMEHOW exceeds 20k on live, which I highly doubt it would. You also gained sustain via Red Diamond, something you didn't have before. Your Health really shouldn't be affected by the switch from 12% to 2k. I said you became better healers and you have in every single way with this patch. I never claimed that you were the best healers, only that you got better. You've also failed to mention the 3% cost reduction Imperial got to EVERYTHING. Blocking, dodging, Ultimates, everything is now cheaper on an Imperial which makes up the difference in Argonian and Imperial sustains, which is only 1k in a 45 second period and the cost reduction will far outstrip the potion passives sustain. Maybe it's you that needs to learn about Imperials, not me.

It's easy to identify an Argonian, they have tails for goodness sake, so so of course you'd notice them more often than something like a Breton or Imperial. Doesn't really mean anything about their performance in said roles. You said it yourself, Argonian is now only 2nd best healer race, despite having a passive totally devoted to healing only, while other races get passives that are universally more useful, resulting in them being on an almost equal level, if not better, than the one dedicated to the role. It's a balance issue and you clearly don't understand that.

Lol bro you are as high as a kite saying my 2k stam on my healer is a buff 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Their sustain has been tested and proven that it is worse than argonians. 3% cost reduction didn't make Breton best healer when they had that plus 12% max magic so where is your logic that our small sustain and 3% cost reduction is good? It's not even close lol.

Argonians have 1k max magic (pretty sure that's a buff from your 3% on live) you still get 6% healing and a good sustain can you share what your smoking with me bruh it must be good stuff

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

So you are crying because the top DPS is 6k better than you? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Now I'm crying laughing!

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Only thing they removed is healing taken. First agree that argonian is OP in PVP in live server. If not nothing to discuss further. Even now they're pretty strong in PVP but not cheese race anymore. Everyone who played argonian know they will be nerfed one day to be inline with other races. I don't bother to discuss with people who intentionally provide false information.

Orc replaces argonian as cheese race.Only thing that requires very serious discussion is Orc. Rest we can talk about minor adjustments.

They nerfed the potion passive for PvP and left the PvE side of things unbalanced. Argonian's performance in every aspect of the game was nerfed and are now suffering because of it. In PvP, being an Argonian meant trading away the damage of another race for more utility. That utility has been reduced substantially but nothing was added to help bring the damage portion up to par for those changes. THAT'S MY ISSUE!!! It has nothing to be with being the best at something but rather balancing off what Argonian lost by providing it with something to help it out in other ways, which did not happen.

Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Seriously stop complaining lol. Me and my wife are imperial healers since launch of game and we have healed everything, so don't say you can't who cares if you are not the best at something. The fact is player skill> passives. We have 0 buffs at all from our imperial healers but yet we are fine so I think you will be.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the best tanks in the game is a khajit before this update again not bis but they have skill so it works.

Stop trying to be an elitist over fractions and just play the race you like. Yeah they could have did some more changes but then classes become way to op and argonians are one of those races due to pvp. There's a reason why you see a lot of argonians when you pvp right now on live

Your Imperial Healers got buffed by getting magic sustain and universal cost reduction to everything; Your race became better healers this patch than you've ever been before so how can you judge others when they got shafted? I never said you couldn't heal or Tank on any race. I said the exact opposite actually and said that, prior to these changes, anyone could Tank and be completely competitive. Competitive is the key word here, as in terms of Tanking, competitive gaming has now been removed from 8/10 Races by the buffs to Imperial and Nord, which is a problem in my eyes. Breton is the same for Healers as the extra sustain means Breton have provide more group utility with more frequent shard/orbs, Combat Prayer, etc usage than the next best race.

Have you actually spoken to any of those PvPers? Even on the forums, just talking with anyone that race changed into an Argonian for PvP purposes and most of them will tell you the same thing. They noticed a drop in damage and the "God Tier" potion passive has been overestimated. Those that deny this don't play Argonians and are just mimicking the words of Streamers that state this as some sort of fact, when in actuality the only thing that is powerful about it is the fact they abused sets like Fury to face tank everything and return the damage in kind, something anyone can do since those sets are OP. I personally don't give a damn about the potion passive. It's never made me feel stronger than another race because I got back some of my off-resources, if anything I felt handicapped because the off-resource did nothing for me in most situations. I'd always have to pop a potion just to try and keep up with races that already had that stat regen and any downtime meant my sustain was often worse than other races in any real PvP application. It was limited for builds designed solely to outlast your opponent, making it perfect for sets like Fury that built onto that mindset but not so much for anything else. Try running an Argonian Stamblade for a day and see if that passive saves you at all; I'd be willing to bet money that you melt just as quickly as any other race.

Lol you know I said I've been imperial for 5 years as a healer right? What I get now is 12% health, 10% stam and a stupid red diamond lolol. I can't take what you say seriously one bit because you clearly don't even know imperial. The nunbers have been run and imperial even with their new passives has less sastain than argonian.

I see argonian stam, tank, and magic all the time. They are everywhere. Are we even playing the same game? Or are you playing Tetris in your head while everyone else plays eso?

Argonians get 6% healing and potion passive while having 1000 magic that is way better than imperials 333 a tick while doing direct damage and it still won't equal what you have I didn't think it was hard to see the difference but I guess I needed to put them together for you to see the difference.

The order of best healers will be Breton with reduction and magic and recovery, and argonian with magic, potion passive for sustain, and 6% healing as the top 2 dunmer and altmir have no sustain they are not gonna be best healers. But again they will work just won't be for bis

And after 5 years, you're getting buffed. The 2k flat Stamina will be better than the 10% you currently get as a Healer, unless your Max Stamina SOMEHOW exceeds 20k on live, which I highly doubt it would. You also gained sustain via Red Diamond, something you didn't have before. Your Health really shouldn't be affected by the switch from 12% to 2k. I said you became better healers and you have in every single way with this patch. I never claimed that you were the best healers, only that you got better. You've also failed to mention the 3% cost reduction Imperial got to EVERYTHING. Blocking, dodging, Ultimates, everything is now cheaper on an Imperial which makes up the difference in Argonian and Imperial sustains, which is only 1k in a 45 second period and the cost reduction will far outstrip the potion passives sustain. Maybe it's you that needs to learn about Imperials, not me.

It's easy to identify an Argonian, they have tails for goodness sake, so so of course you'd notice them more often than something like a Breton or Imperial. Doesn't really mean anything about their performance in said roles. You said it yourself, Argonian is now only 2nd best healer race, despite having a passive totally devoted to healing only, while other races get passives that are universally more useful, resulting in them being on an almost equal level, if not better, than the one dedicated to the role. It's a balance issue and you clearly don't understand that.

Lol bro you are as high as a kite saying my 2k stam on my healer is a buff 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Their sustain has been tested and proven that it is worse than argonians. 3% cost reduction didn't make Breton best healer when they had that plus 12% max magic so where is your logic that our small sustain and 3% cost reduction is good? It's not even close lol.

Argonians have 1k max magic (pretty sure that's a buff from your 3% on live) you still get 6% healing and a good sustain can you share what your smoking with me bruh it must be good stuff

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

So you are crying because the top DPS is 6k better than you? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Now I'm crying laughing!

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Only thing they removed is healing taken. First agree that argonian is OP in PVP in live server. If not nothing to discuss further. Even now they're pretty strong in PVP but not cheese race anymore. Everyone who played argonian know they will be nerfed one day to be inline with other races. I don't bother to discuss with people who intentionally provide false information.

Orc replaces argonian as cheese race.Only thing that requires very serious discussion is Orc. Rest we can talk about minor adjustments.

They nerfed the potion passive for PvP and left the PvE side of things unbalanced. Argonian's performance in every aspect of the game was nerfed and are now suffering because of it. In PvP, being an Argonian meant trading away the damage of another race for more utility. That utility has been reduced substantially but nothing was added to help bring the damage portion up to par for those changes. THAT'S MY ISSUE!!! It has nothing to be with being the best at something but rather balancing off what Argonian lost by providing it with something to help it out in other ways, which did not happen.

Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Seriously stop complaining lol. Me and my wife are imperial healers since launch of game and we have healed everything, so don't say you can't who cares if you are not the best at something. The fact is player skill> passives. We have 0 buffs at all from our imperial healers but yet we are fine so I think you will be.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the best tanks in the game is a khajit before this update again not bis but they have skill so it works.

Stop trying to be an elitist over fractions and just play the race you like. Yeah they could have did some more changes but then classes become way to op and argonians are one of those races due to pvp. There's a reason why you see a lot of argonians when you pvp right now on live

Your Imperial Healers got buffed by getting magic sustain and universal cost reduction to everything; Your race became better healers this patch than you've ever been before so how can you judge others when they got shafted? I never said you couldn't heal or Tank on any race. I said the exact opposite actually and said that, prior to these changes, anyone could Tank and be completely competitive. Competitive is the key word here, as in terms of Tanking, competitive gaming has now been removed from 8/10 Races by the buffs to Imperial and Nord, which is a problem in my eyes. Breton is the same for Healers as the extra sustain means Breton have provide more group utility with more frequent shard/orbs, Combat Prayer, etc usage than the next best race.

Have you actually spoken to any of those PvPers? Even on the forums, just talking with anyone that race changed into an Argonian for PvP purposes and most of them will tell you the same thing. They noticed a drop in damage and the "God Tier" potion passive has been overestimated. Those that deny this don't play Argonians and are just mimicking the words of Streamers that state this as some sort of fact, when in actuality the only thing that is powerful about it is the fact they abused sets like Fury to face tank everything and return the damage in kind, something anyone can do since those sets are OP. I personally don't give a damn about the potion passive. It's never made me feel stronger than another race because I got back some of my off-resources, if anything I felt handicapped because the off-resource did nothing for me in most situations. I'd always have to pop a potion just to try and keep up with races that already had that stat regen and any downtime meant my sustain was often worse than other races in any real PvP application. It was limited for builds designed solely to outlast your opponent, making it perfect for sets like Fury that built onto that mindset but not so much for anything else. Try running an Argonian Stamblade for a day and see if that passive saves you at all; I'd be willing to bet money that you melt just as quickly as any other race.

Lol you know I said I've been imperial for 5 years as a healer right? What I get now is 12% health, 10% stam and a stupid red diamond lolol. I can't take what you say seriously one bit because you clearly don't even know imperial. The nunbers have been run and imperial even with their new passives has less sastain than argonian.

I see argonian stam, tank, and magic all the time. They are everywhere. Are we even playing the same game? Or are you playing Tetris in your head while everyone else plays eso?

Argonians get 6% healing and potion passive while having 1000 magic that is way better than imperials 333 a tick while doing direct damage and it still won't equal what you have I didn't think it was hard to see the difference but I guess I needed to put them together for you to see the difference.

The order of best healers will be Breton with reduction and magic and recovery, and argonian with magic, potion passive for sustain, and 6% healing as the top 2 dunmer and altmir have no sustain they are not gonna be best healers. But again they will work just won't be for bis

And after 5 years, you're getting buffed. The 2k flat Stamina will be better than the 10% you currently get as a Healer, unless your Max Stamina SOMEHOW exceeds 20k on live, which I highly doubt it would. You also gained sustain via Red Diamond, something you didn't have before. Your Health really shouldn't be affected by the switch from 12% to 2k. I said you became better healers and you have in every single way with this patch. I never claimed that you were the best healers, only that you got better. You've also failed to mention the 3% cost reduction Imperial got to EVERYTHING. Blocking, dodging, Ultimates, everything is now cheaper on an Imperial which makes up the difference in Argonian and Imperial sustains, which is only 1k in a 45 second period and the cost reduction will far outstrip the potion passives sustain. Maybe it's you that needs to learn about Imperials, not me.

It's easy to identify an Argonian, they have tails for goodness sake, so so of course you'd notice them more often than something like a Breton or Imperial. Doesn't really mean anything about their performance in said roles. You said it yourself, Argonian is now only 2nd best healer race, despite having a passive totally devoted to healing only, while other races get passives that are universally more useful, resulting in them being on an almost equal level, if not better, than the one dedicated to the role. It's a balance issue and you clearly don't understand that.

Lol bro you are as high as a kite saying my 2k stam on my healer is a buff 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Their sustain has been tested and proven that it is worse than argonians. 3% cost reduction didn't make Breton best healer when they had that plus 12% max magic so where is your logic that our small sustain and 3% cost reduction is good? It's not even close lol.

Argonians have 1k max magic (pretty sure that's a buff from your 3% on live) you still get 6% healing and a good sustain can you share what your smoking with me bruh it must be good stuff

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

So you are crying because the top DPS is 6k better than you? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Now I'm crying laughing!

Ok, I'm done with you. You're troll obviously that can't be reasoned with at all. You choose to ignore race imbalanced and pass it off as though you know what tf you're talking about when in actuality, you couldn't grasp basic math when its plastered in front of you, step by step and given the answer to it.

Bro that chart you showed only thing that truely mattered out of the whole thing was argonians has weaker DPS due to it's passives but again if they buff argonians they get too op. You are only 4-6k behind the top DPS race that is actually very close and I'm pretty sure it is closer than how live currently is. You are still a top 3 tank and 2nd best healer so tell me if you were a top 3 DPS you don't see how that is op?

Nord is a bad DPS, bad healer, best tank but yet you don't see nords in this forum crying all day do you? All you argonians people that switched to it after it became so powerful are upset now but that's the problem is you are feels entitled to something your not.

Don't tell me I don't get numbers lol I get them just fine. It's you that isn't getting numbers. 2 healer, top 3 tank that is your role not damage. Just like imperial we get such "great sustain" and 2000 stam but yet we are worse off than a bosmer and all other stam DPS. But once again imperi is build for being a better tank.

One of the best tanks in the game has been khajit so you can play any race in any role you like. Player skill> CP/racials so just play what you like.

So many.people are gonna switch to orc and still lose to argonians, why? Because they aren't good and think the race makes them better almost like it's a crutch. So no I don't care about your argument because I see lizards all the time in pvp and I know just how much they can survive already it was long overdue for a change. Pvp isn't all about burst damage survival can win in long games.

phantasmalD wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

If one is to believe your signature then you only play Khajiit characters so where is your expertise on argonian matters coming from?
As you keep saying 'believe me' but i don't see on what ground I should accept your words.

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Who are you to tell him to change himself instead.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Only thing they removed is healing taken. First agree that argonian is OP in PVP in live server. If not nothing to discuss further. Even now they're pretty strong in PVP but not cheese race anymore. Everyone who played argonian know they will be nerfed one day to be inline with other races. I don't bother to discuss with people who intentionally provide false information.

Orc replaces argonian as cheese race.Only thing that requires very serious discussion is Orc. Rest we can talk about minor adjustments.

They nerfed the potion passive for PvP and left the PvE side of things unbalanced. Argonian's performance in every aspect of the game was nerfed and are now suffering because of it. In PvP, being an Argonian meant trading away the damage of another race for more utility. That utility has been reduced substantially but nothing was added to help bring the damage portion up to par for those changes. THAT'S MY ISSUE!!! It has nothing to be with being the best at something but rather balancing off what Argonian lost by providing it with something to help it out in other ways, which did not happen.

Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Seriously stop complaining lol. Me and my wife are imperial healers since launch of game and we have healed everything, so don't say you can't who cares if you are not the best at something. The fact is player skill> passives. We have 0 buffs at all from our imperial healers but yet we are fine so I think you will be.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the best tanks in the game is a khajit before this update again not bis but they have skill so it works.

Stop trying to be an elitist over fractions and just play the race you like. Yeah they could have did some more changes but then classes become way to op and argonians are one of those races due to pvp. There's a reason why you see a lot of argonians when you pvp right now on live

Your Imperial Healers got buffed by getting magic sustain and universal cost reduction to everything; Your race became better healers this patch than you've ever been before so how can you judge others when they got shafted? I never said you couldn't heal or Tank on any race. I said the exact opposite actually and said that, prior to these changes, anyone could Tank and be completely competitive. Competitive is the key word here, as in terms of Tanking, competitive gaming has now been removed from 8/10 Races by the buffs to Imperial and Nord, which is a problem in my eyes. Breton is the same for Healers as the extra sustain means Breton have provide more group utility with more frequent shard/orbs, Combat Prayer, etc usage than the next best race.

Have you actually spoken to any of those PvPers? Even on the forums, just talking with anyone that race changed into an Argonian for PvP purposes and most of them will tell you the same thing. They noticed a drop in damage and the "God Tier" potion passive has been overestimated. Those that deny this don't play Argonians and are just mimicking the words of Streamers that state this as some sort of fact, when in actuality the only thing that is powerful about it is the fact they abused sets like Fury to face tank everything and return the damage in kind, something anyone can do since those sets are OP. I personally don't give a damn about the potion passive. It's never made me feel stronger than another race because I got back some of my off-resources, if anything I felt handicapped because the off-resource did nothing for me in most situations. I'd always have to pop a potion just to try and keep up with races that already had that stat regen and any downtime meant my sustain was often worse than other races in any real PvP application. It was limited for builds designed solely to outlast your opponent, making it perfect for sets like Fury that built onto that mindset but not so much for anything else. Try running an Argonian Stamblade for a day and see if that passive saves you at all; I'd be willing to bet money that you melt just as quickly as any other race.

Lol you know I said I've been imperial for 5 years as a healer right? What I get now is 12% health, 10% stam and a stupid red diamond lolol. I can't take what you say seriously one bit because you clearly don't even know imperial. The nunbers have been run and imperial even with their new passives has less sastain than argonian.

I see argonian stam, tank, and magic all the time. They are everywhere. Are we even playing the same game? Or are you playing Tetris in your head while everyone else plays eso?

Argonians get 6% healing and potion passive while having 1000 magic that is way better than imperials 333 a tick while doing direct damage and it still won't equal what you have I didn't think it was hard to see the difference but I guess I needed to put them together for you to see the difference.

The order of best healers will be Breton with reduction and magic and recovery, and argonian with magic, potion passive for sustain, and 6% healing as the top 2 dunmer and altmir have no sustain they are not gonna be best healers. But again they will work just won't be for bis

And after 5 years, you're getting buffed. The 2k flat Stamina will be better than the 10% you currently get as a Healer, unless your Max Stamina SOMEHOW exceeds 20k on live, which I highly doubt it would. You also gained sustain via Red Diamond, something you didn't have before. Your Health really shouldn't be affected by the switch from 12% to 2k. I said you became better healers and you have in every single way with this patch. I never claimed that you were the best healers, only that you got better. You've also failed to mention the 3% cost reduction Imperial got to EVERYTHING. Blocking, dodging, Ultimates, everything is now cheaper on an Imperial which makes up the difference in Argonian and Imperial sustains, which is only 1k in a 45 second period and the cost reduction will far outstrip the potion passives sustain. Maybe it's you that needs to learn about Imperials, not me.

It's easy to identify an Argonian, they have tails for goodness sake, so so of course you'd notice them more often than something like a Breton or Imperial. Doesn't really mean anything about their performance in said roles. You said it yourself, Argonian is now only 2nd best healer race, despite having a passive totally devoted to healing only, while other races get passives that are universally more useful, resulting in them being on an almost equal level, if not better, than the one dedicated to the role. It's a balance issue and you clearly don't understand that.

Lol bro you are as high as a kite saying my 2k stam on my healer is a buff 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Their sustain has been tested and proven that it is worse than argonians. 3% cost reduction didn't make Breton best healer when they had that plus 12% max magic so where is your logic that our small sustain and 3% cost reduction is good? It's not even close lol.

Argonians have 1k max magic (pretty sure that's a buff from your 3% on live) you still get 6% healing and a good sustain can you share what your smoking with me bruh it must be good stuff

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458985/raid-buffed-dps-test-each-class-each-dd-race-pts-4-3-3/p1

So you are crying because the top DPS is 6k better than you? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 Now I'm crying laughing!

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

Nerf argonian ^^ They have lost all of the roles....

I dont find this thread funny...its more about crying for me. You simply cant be siriously with buffing argonian to all 3 roles. No Race is good on all 3 roles. Imperials arent made for DDs, but you can play it, if you really want it. Highelfs arent made for Healers anymore, Redguard isnt the top dps but the top sustain race and you dont take it for a sirious tank, no one would play a breton tank too (if you tank in raidgroups), nords are crap DDs....and go on and on.

There have to be an weak point on each race....learn to play with it or not. But dont cry, if you dont want to change.

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

Nerf argonian ^^ They have lost all of the roles....

I dont find this thread funny...its more about crying for me. You simply cant be siriously with buffing argonian to all 3 roles. No Race is good on all 3 roles. Imperials arent made for DDs, but you can play it, if you really want it. Highelfs arent made for Healers anymore, Redguard isnt the top dps but the top sustain race and you dont take it for a sirious tank, no one would play a breton tank too (if you tank in raidgroups), nords are crap DDs....and go on and on.

There have to be an weak point on each race....learn to play with it or not. But dont cry, if you dont want to change.

It's about BALANCE. The nerf to Argonians hurts them in more than just PvP and even in terms of PvP was heavy handed AF. In PvP, their damage was already lower than the other races but they had staying power, which was the trade off. Their staying power has been lowered significantly but their damage was not increased to compensate, while all other races got more damage or staying power, which offset that balance. It's not even about buffing Argonians in all 3 roles (which funnily enough Imperials, Dunmer and Khajiit got exactly that so a really bad argument to make), it's about helping Argonian in order to try and establish a better balanced game for both PvP and PvE, something that might as well be an alien concept.

Yeah regain all three ressources was never a good trait, right? Especially, if you look to the other races, which have to sacrifice more to sustain than argonian...its not about dmg in pvp, its about sustain and survivable.

This is more Crying and Lazyness about changing something. Nothing less. Races are very well balanced on pts now.

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Damage is a part of PvP just as much as sustain and survivability; If you hit like a wet noodle, it doesn't matter how much you sustain you have since you aren't killing anything and if you build yourself to be a Glass Cannon, you can't complain about being 1 shot by Lethal Arrow. A race like Dunmer trades sustain for damage vs Argonian that trades damage for sustain; a Dunmer builds for sustain while an Argonian builds for damage, these are trade offs.You're also failing to take into considering that the health restore is cut in half in PvP so it barely restores anything at all, it's more a bi-stat restore than a tri-stat, which Khajiit and Imperial both have now on top of better damage and more Max resources. Are you going to complain that Khajiit and Imperial are now OP in PvP because of this? No, because you don't give a damn about balance, you're just using it as a veil for being blissfully unaware of what balance truly is.

You simply cant dmg without sustain. And youre restore is always on all three stats - thats why are you playing tristatpots in Cyro, also with the cyrodebuff on Heal and Max HP. We're just talking about ~900 Stam/Magreg for free + 800 as Basicreg (with Pot CD on glyphes). Other Races have to build with Regfood, Regglyphes and Setitems for that amount of reg. And you are going to tell me, i dont unterstand very much about balance? You dont even notice the dmg from an Imperial with 2k Stam, its about ~200 dmg on your overalldmg (maximal). Crit and the Khajitreg doesnt help you in Pvp that much too, because of Incap and an Amount from 50 r/s, which is basicly nothing infront of the skilldrains. Max ressources arent helping you with your Sustain, too, but all you see is a Buff to other races and a nerf to argonians.Youre just dodging these facts and nothing more. This is just like: i will all of it, but i wont lose anything