Kulvar wrote: »

Elhan wrote: »

hmm i dont understand your math

Resourceful + Potion: 4000 + 7582 Magicka restored every 24 seconds

=11582 every 24sec= 482mag/sec = 965 mag recovery

You forgot to consider the buffs to Recovery.
It's confusing so let's call them "base" and "final" Recovery.
With +70%, a +258 Base Recovery turns into a +439 Final Recovery

4000 + 7582 = 11582

11582 / 45s = 257.4 / 1s = 515 / 2s = 515 final recovery
With +70% recovery (from CP, buffs, passives), it's equivalent to 303 base recovery

11582 / 24s = 482.6 / 1s = 965 / 2s = 965 final recovery
With +70% recovery (from CP, buffs, passives), it's equivalent to 568 base recovery

And going from 303 recovery to 568 recovery is getting 265 recovery

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Those that deny this don't play Argonians and are just mimicking the words of Streamers that state this as some sort of fact

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Only thing they removed is healing taken. First agree that argonian is OP in PVP in live server. If not nothing to discuss further.

Even now they're pretty strong in PVP but not cheese race anymore as taken over its place . Buffing up all 4K recources + 8K Potion ( Tristat) reources every 21 seconds is nothing any race could catch up. Which is equivalent 600K+ recovery for each resource every 2 seconds. Even then there is cooldown of 3 seconds for other races. Lets ignore that minor difference and consider both using same pods. In the end you are losing 2.5K magicka , but you end up gaining recovery equivalent of 10 jewellery glyhs !!! at maximum. This is not a joke in PVP. Its crazy many people had to deal with thisgarbage nonsense for so long time. For some reason ZOs deosnt want to nerf resourceful passive because noobs will cry in forums, instead they nerfed healing passive.
Please dont come and argue that argonians are wasting resoures in pods.

Everyone who played argonian know they will be nerfed one day to be inline with other races.

I don't bother to discuss with people who intentionally provide false information.

Orc replaces argonian as cheese race.Only thing that requires very serious discussion is Orc. I dont know which ** designed orc passives for pathetic garbage streamers. Rest we can talk about minor adjustments or replacements. Please L2P. Dont waste everyone time . Argonian still pretty strong race and far better sustain than other races and strong contender for no 1 spot if not orc. Only thing is need to spend on potions .

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Seriously stop complaining lol. Me and my wife are imperial healers since launch of game and we have healed everything, so don't say you can't who cares if you are not the best at something. The fact is player skill> passives. We have 0 buffs at all from our imperial healers but yet we are fine so I think you will be.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the best tanks in the game is a khajit before this update again not bis but they have skill so it works.

Stop trying to be an elitist over fractions and just play the race you like. Yeah they could have did some more changes but then classes become way to op and argonians are one of those races due to pvp. There's a reason why you see a lot of argonians when you pvp right now on live

Chosing to play a race in a non optimal role is one thing. (Imperial healers were even buffed w/ mag sustain and cheaper abilities including ults)

Argonian has no optimal role in the pve world.

Twohothardware wrote: »

Imperial gets 333 Magicka back every 5 seconds if your doing direct damage. That's less than 3000 Magicka in 45 seconds if you had a perfect damage rotation which as a healer you won't. Argonian gets 4000 Magicka instantly just from using a potion. Imperial has 3% cost reduction but Argonian also has 1000 Magicka and 6% bonus to healing so Argonian healing will be stronger than races with 2000 Magicka bonus. Argonian remains a top choice for healer or tank roles.

Alpheu5 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

One of the #1 reasons races were even going through this race rebalancing right now is because of how much Argonian was overperforming. Pvp players all switching to Argonian because of the burst sustain, healing, and immunity to major defile from disease damage. Every PvE tanking or healing build posted by streamers like Alcast centered around being Argonian because of the huge advantage in being able to sustain with low recovery stats. The developers themselves stated that Argonian was mathematically twice as good as other races.

Argonian has always been at the bottom for top PvE DPS just like Nord is for Stamina. Argonian and Nord get their advantages from increased survivabilty and healing making them top choices at other roles. And in PvP dps differences between the races continues to mean very little, that's why Argonian was able to overperform with only 3% Magicka.

Here's the thing though: Mathematically and practically are two wholly separate entities. You can create a build that would mathematically output a massive amount of damage, but then you go to use it...

It's a bit of an exaggeration but it gets the point across that just because it looks good on paper doesn't mean it will perform nearly as well. Anybody that theorycrafts knows that feeling of "this isn't actually going to work" when they finally go to test a setup that looks great but turns out to be super clunky, doesn't flow well, can't balance tasks, is sacrificing a lot of something, etc.

Twohothardware wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Seriously stop complaining lol. Me and my wife are imperial healers since launch of game and we have healed everything, so don't say you can't who cares if you are not the best at something. The fact is player skill> passives. We have 0 buffs at all from our imperial healers but yet we are fine so I think you will be.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the best tanks in the game is a khajit before this update again not bis but they have skill so it works.

Stop trying to be an elitist over fractions and just play the race you like. Yeah they could have did some more changes but then classes become way to op and argonians are one of those races due to pvp. There's a reason why you see a lot of argonians when you pvp right now on live

Chosing to play a race in a non optimal role is one thing. (Imperial healers were even buffed w/ mag sustain and cheaper abilities including ults)

Argonian has no optimal role in the pve world.

Imperial gets 333 Magicka back every 5 seconds if your doing direct damage. That's less than 3000 Magicka in 45 seconds if you had a perfect damage rotation which as a healer you won't. Argonian gets 4000 Magicka instantly just from using a potion. Imperial has 3% cost reduction but Argonian also has 1000 Magicka and 6% bonus to healing so Argonian healing will be stronger than races with 2000 Magicka bonus. Argonian remains a top choice for healer or tank roles.

Twohothardware wrote: »

One of the #1 reasons races were even going through this race rebalancing right now is because of how much Argonian was overperforming. Pvp players all switching to Argonian because of the burst sustain, healing, and immunity to major defile from disease damage. Every PvE tanking or healing build posted by streamers like Alcast centered around being Argonian because of the huge advantage in being able to sustain with low recovery stats. The developers themselves stated that Argonian was mathematically twice as good as other races.

Argonian has always been at the bottom for top PvE DPS just like Nord is for Stamina. Argonian and Nord get their advantages from increased survivabilty and healing making them top choices at other roles. And in PvP dps differences between the races continues to mean very little, that's why Argonian was able to overperform with only 3% Magicka.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Only thing they removed is healing taken. First agree that argonian is OP in PVP in live server. If not nothing to discuss further. Even now they're pretty strong in PVP but not cheese race anymore. Everyone who played argonian know they will be nerfed one day to be inline with other races. I don't bother to discuss with people who intentionally provide false information.

Orc replaces argonian as cheese race.Only thing that requires very serious discussion is Orc. Rest we can talk about minor adjustments.

They nerfed the potion passive for PvP and left the PvE side of things unbalanced. Argonian's performance in every aspect of the game was nerfed and are now suffering because of it. In PvP, being an Argonian meant trading away the damage of another race for more utility. That utility has been reduced substantially but nothing was added to help bring the damage portion up to par for those changes. THAT'S MY ISSUE!!! It has nothing to be with being the best at something but rather balancing off what Argonian lost by providing it with something to help it out in other ways, which did not happen.

Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Seriously stop complaining lol. Me and my wife are imperial healers since launch of game and we have healed everything, so don't say you can't who cares if you are not the best at something. The fact is player skill> passives. We have 0 buffs at all from our imperial healers but yet we are fine so I think you will be.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the best tanks in the game is a khajit before this update again not bis but they have skill so it works.

Stop trying to be an elitist over fractions and just play the race you like. Yeah they could have did some more changes but then classes become way to op and argonians are one of those races due to pvp. There's a reason why you see a lot of argonians when you pvp right now on live

Your Imperial Healers got buffed by getting magic sustain and universal cost reduction to everything; Your race became better healers this patch than you've ever been before so how can you judge others when they got shafted? I never said you couldn't heal or Tank on any race. I said the exact opposite actually and said that, prior to these changes, anyone could Tank and be completely competitive. Competitive is the key word here, as in terms of Tanking, competitive gaming has now been removed from 8/10 Races by the buffs to Imperial and Nord, which is a problem in my eyes. Breton is the same for Healers as the extra sustain means Breton have provide more group utility with more frequent shard/orbs, Combat Prayer, etc usage than the next best race.

Have you actually spoken to any of those PvPers? Even on the forums, just talking with anyone that race changed into an Argonian for PvP purposes and most of them will tell you the same thing. They noticed a drop in damage and the "God Tier" potion passive has been overestimated. Those that deny this don't play Argonians and are just mimicking the words of Streamers that state this as some sort of fact, when in actuality the only thing that is powerful about it is the fact they abused sets like Fury to face tank everything and return the damage in kind, something anyone can do since those sets are OP. I personally don't give a damn about the potion passive. It's never made me feel stronger than another race because I got back some of my off-resources, if anything I felt handicapped because the off-resource did nothing for me in most situations. I'd always have to pop a potion just to try and keep up with races that already had that stat regen and any downtime meant my sustain was often worse than other races in any real PvP application. It was limited for builds designed solely to outlast your opponent, making it perfect for sets like Fury that built onto that mindset but not so much for anything else. Try running an Argonian Stamblade for a day and see if that passive saves you at all; I'd be willing to bet money that you melt just as quickly as any other race.

Lol you know I said I've been imperial for 5 years as a healer right? What I get now is 12% health, 10% stam and a stupid red diamond lolol. I can't take what you say seriously one bit because you clearly don't even know imperial. The nunbers have been run and imperial even with their new passives has less sastain than argonian.

I see argonian stam, tank, and magic all the time. They are everywhere. Are we even playing the same game? Or are you playing Tetris in your head while everyone else plays eso?

Argonians get 6% healing and potion passive while having 1000 magic that is way better than imperials 333 a tick while doing direct damage and it still won't equal what you have I didn't think it was hard to see the difference but I guess I needed to put them together for you to see the difference.

The order of best healers will be Breton with reduction and magic and recovery, and argonian with magic, potion passive for sustain, and 6% healing as the top 2 dunmer and altmir have no sustain they are not gonna be best healers. But again they will work just won't be for bis

ccmedaddy wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

One of the #1 reasons races were even going through this race rebalancing right now is because of how much Argonian was overperforming. Pvp players all switching to Argonian because of the burst sustain, healing, and immunity to major defile from disease damage. Every PvE tanking or healing build posted by streamers like Alcast centered around being Argonian because of the huge advantage in being able to sustain with low recovery stats. The developers themselves stated that Argonian was mathematically twice as good as other races.

Argonian has always been at the bottom for top PvE DPS just like Nord is for Stamina. Argonian and Nord get their advantages from increased survivabilty and healing making them top choices at other roles. And in PvP dps differences between the races continues to mean very little, that's why Argonian was able to overperform with only 3% Magicka.

And ZOS has NEVER been wrong before, right? What are the exact numbers to prove how many people switched to Argonians because of PvP? How many are just new players that like Argonians? I've talked with several people that have race switched and most have yet to really express like the potion passive made much of a difference but they all noticed a drop in damage. Disease Damage is so rare in the this game that the disease resistance is negligible and the immunity is totally redundant since everyone and there mother can get Defile thru the plethora of skills/sets that provide it. The only way it was ever helpful was reducing the damage from Incap Strikes by a little bit and the extra healing helped to counter some of the Defile on top, that was about it in terms of practical implications for PvP. The entire PvP argument has no basis in real time application and is mostly pointless conjecture based on paper theory only.

lol @ this whole post

You are so detached from reality I almost envy you.

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Only thing they removed is healing taken. First agree that argonian is OP in PVP in live server. If not nothing to discuss further. Even now they're pretty strong in PVP but not cheese race anymore. Everyone who played argonian know they will be nerfed one day to be inline with other races. I don't bother to discuss with people who intentionally provide false information.

Orc replaces argonian as cheese race.Only thing that requires very serious discussion is Orc. Rest we can talk about minor adjustments.

They nerfed the potion passive for PvP and left the PvE side of things unbalanced. Argonian's performance in every aspect of the game was nerfed and are now suffering because of it. In PvP, being an Argonian meant trading away the damage of another race for more utility. That utility has been reduced substantially but nothing was added to help bring the damage portion up to par for those changes. THAT'S MY ISSUE!!! It has nothing to be with being the best at something but rather balancing off what Argonian lost by providing it with something to help it out in other ways, which did not happen.

Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Seriously stop complaining lol. Me and my wife are imperial healers since launch of game and we have healed everything, so don't say you can't who cares if you are not the best at something. The fact is player skill> passives. We have 0 buffs at all from our imperial healers but yet we are fine so I think you will be.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the best tanks in the game is a khajit before this update again not bis but they have skill so it works.

Stop trying to be an elitist over fractions and just play the race you like. Yeah they could have did some more changes but then classes become way to op and argonians are one of those races due to pvp. There's a reason why you see a lot of argonians when you pvp right now on live

Your Imperial Healers got buffed by getting magic sustain and universal cost reduction to everything; Your race became better healers this patch than you've ever been before so how can you judge others when they got shafted? I never said you couldn't heal or Tank on any race. I said the exact opposite actually and said that, prior to these changes, anyone could Tank and be completely competitive. Competitive is the key word here, as in terms of Tanking, competitive gaming has now been removed from 8/10 Races by the buffs to Imperial and Nord, which is a problem in my eyes. Breton is the same for Healers as the extra sustain means Breton have provide more group utility with more frequent shard/orbs, Combat Prayer, etc usage than the next best race.

Have you actually spoken to any of those PvPers? Even on the forums, just talking with anyone that race changed into an Argonian for PvP purposes and most of them will tell you the same thing. They noticed a drop in damage and the "God Tier" potion passive has been overestimated. Those that deny this don't play Argonians and are just mimicking the words of Streamers that state this as some sort of fact, when in actuality the only thing that is powerful about it is the fact they abused sets like Fury to face tank everything and return the damage in kind, something anyone can do since those sets are OP. I personally don't give a damn about the potion passive. It's never made me feel stronger than another race because I got back some of my off-resources, if anything I felt handicapped because the off-resource did nothing for me in most situations. I'd always have to pop a potion just to try and keep up with races that already had that stat regen and any downtime meant my sustain was often worse than other races in any real PvP application. It was limited for builds designed solely to outlast your opponent, making it perfect for sets like Fury that built onto that mindset but not so much for anything else. Try running an Argonian Stamblade for a day and see if that passive saves you at all; I'd be willing to bet money that you melt just as quickly as any other race.

Lol you know I said I've been imperial for 5 years as a healer right? What I get now is 12% health, 10% stam and a stupid red diamond lolol. I can't take what you say seriously one bit because you clearly don't even know imperial. The nunbers have been run and imperial even with their new passives has less sastain than argonian.

I see argonian stam, tank, and magic all the time. They are everywhere. Are we even playing the same game? Or are you playing Tetris in your head while everyone else plays eso?

Argonians get 6% healing and potion passive while having 1000 magic that is way better than imperials 333 a tick while doing direct damage and it still won't equal what you have I didn't think it was hard to see the difference but I guess I needed to put them together for you to see the difference.

The order of best healers will be Breton with reduction and magic and recovery, and argonian with magic, potion passive for sustain, and 6% healing as the top 2 dunmer and altmir have no sustain they are not gonna be best healers. But again they will work just won't be for bis

And after 5 years, you're getting buffed. The 2k flat Stamina will be better than the 10% you currently get as a Healer, unless your Max Stamina SOMEHOW exceeds 20k on live, which I highly doubt it would. You also gained sustain via Red Diamond, something you didn't have before. Your Health really shouldn't be affected by the switch from 12% to 2k. I said you became better healers and you have in every single way with this patch. I never claimed that you were the best healers, only that you got better. You've also failed to mention the 3% cost reduction Imperial got to EVERYTHING. Blocking, dodging, Ultimates, everything is now cheaper on an Imperial which makes up the difference in Argonian and Imperial sustains, which is only 1k in a 45 second period and the cost reduction will far outstrip the potion passives sustain. Maybe it's you that needs to learn about Imperials, not me.

It's easy to identify an Argonian, they have tails for goodness sake, so so of course you'd notice them more often than something like a Breton or Imperial. Doesn't really mean anything about their performance in said roles. You said it yourself, Argonian is now only 2nd best healer race, despite having a passive totally devoted to healing only, while other races get passives that are universally more useful, resulting in them being on an almost equal level, if not better, than the one dedicated to the role. It's a balance issue and you clearly don't understand that.

Lol bro you are as high as a kite saying my 2k stam on my healer is a buff 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Their sustain has been tested and proven that it is worse than argonians. 3% cost reduction didn't make Breton best healer when they had that plus 12% mag recovery so where is your logic that our small sustain and 3% cost reduction is good? It's not even close lol.

Argonians have 1k max magic (pretty sure that's a buff from your 3% on live) you still get 6% healing and a good sustain can you share what your smoking with me bruh it must be good stuff

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Only thing they removed is healing taken. First agree that argonian is OP in PVP in live server. If not nothing to discuss further. Even now they're pretty strong in PVP but not cheese race anymore. Everyone who played argonian know they will be nerfed one day to be inline with other races. I don't bother to discuss with people who intentionally provide false information.

Orc replaces argonian as cheese race.Only thing that requires very serious discussion is Orc. Rest we can talk about minor adjustments.

They nerfed the potion passive for PvP and left the PvE side of things unbalanced. Argonian's performance in every aspect of the game was nerfed and are now suffering because of it. In PvP, being an Argonian meant trading away the damage of another race for more utility. That utility has been reduced substantially but nothing was added to help bring the damage portion up to par for those changes. THAT'S MY ISSUE!!! It has nothing to be with being the best at something but rather balancing off what Argonian lost by providing it with something to help it out in other ways, which did not happen.

Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Seriously stop complaining lol. Me and my wife are imperial healers since launch of game and we have healed everything, so don't say you can't who cares if you are not the best at something. The fact is player skill> passives. We have 0 buffs at all from our imperial healers but yet we are fine so I think you will be.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the best tanks in the game is a khajit before this update again not bis but they have skill so it works.

Stop trying to be an elitist over fractions and just play the race you like. Yeah they could have did some more changes but then classes become way to op and argonians are one of those races due to pvp. There's a reason why you see a lot of argonians when you pvp right now on live

Your Imperial Healers got buffed by getting magic sustain and universal cost reduction to everything; Your race became better healers this patch than you've ever been before so how can you judge others when they got shafted? I never said you couldn't heal or Tank on any race. I said the exact opposite actually and said that, prior to these changes, anyone could Tank and be completely competitive. Competitive is the key word here, as in terms of Tanking, competitive gaming has now been removed from 8/10 Races by the buffs to Imperial and Nord, which is a problem in my eyes. Breton is the same for Healers as the extra sustain means Breton have provide more group utility with more frequent shard/orbs, Combat Prayer, etc usage than the next best race.

Have you actually spoken to any of those PvPers? Even on the forums, just talking with anyone that race changed into an Argonian for PvP purposes and most of them will tell you the same thing. They noticed a drop in damage and the "God Tier" potion passive has been overestimated. Those that deny this don't play Argonians and are just mimicking the words of Streamers that state this as some sort of fact, when in actuality the only thing that is powerful about it is the fact they abused sets like Fury to face tank everything and return the damage in kind, something anyone can do since those sets are OP. I personally don't give a damn about the potion passive. It's never made me feel stronger than another race because I got back some of my off-resources, if anything I felt handicapped because the off-resource did nothing for me in most situations. I'd always have to pop a potion just to try and keep up with races that already had that stat regen and any downtime meant my sustain was often worse than other races in any real PvP application. It was limited for builds designed solely to outlast your opponent, making it perfect for sets like Fury that built onto that mindset but not so much for anything else. Try running an Argonian Stamblade for a day and see if that passive saves you at all; I'd be willing to bet money that you melt just as quickly as any other race.

Lol you know I said I've been imperial for 5 years as a healer right? What I get now is 12% health, 10% stam and a stupid red diamond lolol. I can't take what you say seriously one bit because you clearly don't even know imperial. The nunbers have been run and imperial even with their new passives has less sastain than argonian.

I see argonian stam, tank, and magic all the time. They are everywhere. Are we even playing the same game? Or are you playing Tetris in your head while everyone else plays eso?

Argonians get 6% healing and potion passive while having 1000 magic that is way better than imperials 333 a tick while doing direct damage and it still won't equal what you have I didn't think it was hard to see the difference but I guess I needed to put them together for you to see the difference.

The order of best healers will be Breton with reduction and magic and recovery, and argonian with magic, potion passive for sustain, and 6% healing as the top 2 dunmer and altmir have no sustain they are not gonna be best healers. But again they will work just won't be for bis

And after 5 years, you're getting buffed. The 2k flat Stamina will be better than the 10% you currently get as a Healer, unless your Max Stamina SOMEHOW exceeds 20k on live, which I highly doubt it would. You also gained sustain via Red Diamond, something you didn't have before. Your Health really shouldn't be affected by the switch from 12% to 2k. I said you became better healers and you have in every single way with this patch. I never claimed that you were the best healers, only that you got better. You've also failed to mention the 3% cost reduction Imperial got to EVERYTHING. Blocking, dodging, Ultimates, everything is now cheaper on an Imperial which makes up the difference in Argonian and Imperial sustains, which is only 1k in a 45 second period and the cost reduction will far outstrip the potion passives sustain. Maybe it's you that needs to learn about Imperials, not me.

It's easy to identify an Argonian, they have tails for goodness sake, so so of course you'd notice them more often than something like a Breton or Imperial. Doesn't really mean anything about their performance in said roles. You said it yourself, Argonian is now only 2nd best healer race, despite having a passive totally devoted to healing only, while other races get passives that are universally more useful, resulting in them being on an almost equal level, if not better, than the one dedicated to the role. It's a balance issue and you clearly don't understand that.

Lol bro you are as high as a kite saying my 2k stam on my healer is a buff 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Their sustain has been tested and proven that it is worse than argonians. 3% cost reduction didn't make Breton best healer when they had that plus 12% max magic so where is your logic that our small sustain and 3% cost reduction is good? It's not even close lol.

Argonians have 1k max magic (pretty sure that's a buff from your 3% on live) you still get 6% healing and a good sustain can you share what your smoking with me bruh it must be good stuff

Elhan wrote: »

hmm i dont understand your math

Resourceful + Potion: 4000 + 7582 Magicka restored every 24 seconds

=11582 every 24sec= 482mag/sec = 965 mag recovery

Kulvar wrote: »

Elhan wrote: »

hmm i dont understand your math

Resourceful + Potion: 4000 + 7582 Magicka restored every 24 seconds

=11582 every 24sec= 482mag/sec = 965 mag recovery

You forgot to consider the buffs to Recovery.
It's confusing so let's call them "base" and "final" Recovery.
With +70%, a +258 Base Recovery turns into a +439 Final Recovery

4000 + 7582 = 11582

11582 / 45s = 257.4 / 1s = 515 / 2s = 515 final recovery
With +70% recovery (from CP, buffs, passives), it's equivalent to 303 base recovery

11582 / 24s = 482.6 / 1s = 965 / 2s = 965 final recovery
With +70% recovery (from CP, buffs, passives), it's equivalent to 568 base recovery

And going from 303 recovery to 568 recovery is getting 265 recovery

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Only thing they removed is healing taken. First agree that argonian is OP in PVP in live server. If not nothing to discuss further. Even now they're pretty strong in PVP but not cheese race anymore. Everyone who played argonian know they will be nerfed one day to be inline with other races. I don't bother to discuss with people who intentionally provide false information.

Orc replaces argonian as cheese race.Only thing that requires very serious discussion is Orc. Rest we can talk about minor adjustments.

They nerfed the potion passive for PvP and left the PvE side of things unbalanced. Argonian's performance in every aspect of the game was nerfed and are now suffering because of it. In PvP, being an Argonian meant trading away the damage of another race for more utility. That utility has been reduced substantially but nothing was added to help bring the damage portion up to par for those changes. THAT'S MY ISSUE!!! It has nothing to be with being the best at something but rather balancing off what Argonian lost by providing it with something to help it out in other ways, which did not happen.

Why is that so hard for people to understand?

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

No instantly getting back almost twice the amount of health, stamina and magica of tripots can be seriously overpowered.
Dont complain about it, Work around it. Theres always a way to make your racial passive pretty strong.... There are sets aout there that synergize very well with the potion passive+inused jewlery with potion cooldown.

1) The potion passive is ~52-53% of the value of a tri-stat pot. It's maybe double if you're using a CP50 pot but not for CP150 pots.
2) The Health restore is cut in half in PvP. 2k Health is a light attack's worth of health, not really gonna do much. Only a Tank in PvP can even use the damn tri-stat effect with any level of success since the health return is worthless, the offer resource restore is enough for 1-2 extra utility casts and the main resource restore just barely keeps up with a race that has natural resource restore, if even that.
3) CLEVER ALCHEMIST IS CRAP!!!!!!! I could get more sustain/damage by using those Infused Jewelry with Weapon/Spell Damage + Regen enchantments than Clever Alchemist can ever hope to match. It's a useless set and anyone that knows basic math will tell you the same damn thing.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

And im also sure some people think this game only revolves around beating on 1 stationary target with 12 people or 15 min...... Argys will still stay BiS healers, on tanks people have other options now, argy will still be very good as a tank dont worry. Nothing much changed on the lizard

4) Less Sustain and Magic than a Breton means Argonian CANNOT be a BiS healer by default. It doesn't matter if my BoL heals for 20k or 200k, overhealing is overhealing but when you can sustain yourself better and can provide more utility in the form of more shards/orbs for the group as well as providing dealing more damage while still being fully capable of healing your group, Breton is the clear winner in every regard.
5) The bar for success on a Tank is ridiculously low. You could be a Tank on any race and have equal levels of success as an Argonian, Argonian was just brain dead easy to do as sustain was less of an issue. I also find it funny that you say there's options for Tank now, while completely glossing over the fact that Healer is now Breton dominated.
6) Lower sustain = Less potent in every single area of the game. Tanking, Healing, DPS, PvP performance all dropped because of this 1 change but couple it with the removal of Healing received, which hurts our PvP performance and Tanks even more, and we just become mediocre in every area of the game again.

Seriously stop complaining lol. Me and my wife are imperial healers since launch of game and we have healed everything, so don't say you can't who cares if you are not the best at something. The fact is player skill> passives. We have 0 buffs at all from our imperial healers but yet we are fine so I think you will be.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the best tanks in the game is a khajit before this update again not bis but they have skill so it works.

Stop trying to be an elitist over fractions and just play the race you like. Yeah they could have did some more changes but then classes become way to op and argonians are one of those races due to pvp. There's a reason why you see a lot of argonians when you pvp right now on live

Your Imperial Healers got buffed by getting magic sustain and universal cost reduction to everything; Your race became better healers this patch than you've ever been before so how can you judge others when they got shafted? I never said you couldn't heal or Tank on any race. I said the exact opposite actually and said that, prior to these changes, anyone could Tank and be completely competitive. Competitive is the key word here, as in terms of Tanking, competitive gaming has now been removed from 8/10 Races by the buffs to Imperial and Nord, which is a problem in my eyes. Breton is the same for Healers as the extra sustain means Breton have provide more group utility with more frequent shard/orbs, Combat Prayer, etc usage than the next best race.

Have you actually spoken to any of those PvPers? Even on the forums, just talking with anyone that race changed into an Argonian for PvP purposes and most of them will tell you the same thing. They noticed a drop in damage and the "God Tier" potion passive has been overestimated. Those that deny this don't play Argonians and are just mimicking the words of Streamers that state this as some sort of fact, when in actuality the only thing that is powerful about it is the fact they abused sets like Fury to face tank everything and return the damage in kind, something anyone can do since those sets are OP. I personally don't give a damn about the potion passive. It's never made me feel stronger than another race because I got back some of my off-resources, if anything I felt handicapped because the off-resource did nothing for me in most situations. I'd always have to pop a potion just to try and keep up with races that already had that stat regen and any downtime meant my sustain was often worse than other races in any real PvP application. It was limited for builds designed solely to outlast your opponent, making it perfect for sets like Fury that built onto that mindset but not so much for anything else. Try running an Argonian Stamblade for a day and see if that passive saves you at all; I'd be willing to bet money that you melt just as quickly as any other race.

Lol you know I said I've been imperial for 5 years as a healer right? What I get now is 12% health, 10% stam and a stupid red diamond lolol. I can't take what you say seriously one bit because you clearly don't even know imperial. The nunbers have been run and imperial even with their new passives has less sastain than argonian.

I see argonian stam, tank, and magic all the time. They are everywhere. Are we even playing the same game? Or are you playing Tetris in your head while everyone else plays eso?

Argonians get 6% healing and potion passive while having 1000 magic that is way better than imperials 333 a tick while doing direct damage and it still won't equal what you have I didn't think it was hard to see the difference but I guess I needed to put them together for you to see the difference.

The order of best healers will be Breton with reduction and magic and recovery, and argonian with magic, potion passive for sustain, and 6% healing as the top 2 dunmer and altmir have no sustain they are not gonna be best healers. But again they will work just won't be for bis

And after 5 years, you're getting buffed. The 2k flat Stamina will be better than the 10% you currently get as a Healer, unless your Max Stamina SOMEHOW exceeds 20k on live, which I highly doubt it would. You also gained sustain via Red Diamond, something you didn't have before. Your Health really shouldn't be affected by the switch from 12% to 2k. I said you became better healers and you have in every single way with this patch. I never claimed that you were the best healers, only that you got better. You've also failed to mention the 3% cost reduction Imperial got to EVERYTHING. Blocking, dodging, Ultimates, everything is now cheaper on an Imperial which makes up the difference in Argonian and Imperial sustains, which is only 1k in a 45 second period and the cost reduction will far outstrip the potion passives sustain. Maybe it's you that needs to learn about Imperials, not me.

It's easy to identify an Argonian, they have tails for goodness sake, so so of course you'd notice them more often than something like a Breton or Imperial. Doesn't really mean anything about their performance in said roles. You said it yourself, Argonian is now only 2nd best healer race, despite having a passive totally devoted to healing only, while other races get passives that are universally more useful, resulting in them being on an almost equal level, if not better, than the one dedicated to the role. It's a balance issue and you clearly don't understand that.

Lol bro you are as high as a kite saying my 2k stam on my healer is a buff 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Their sustain has been tested and proven that it is worse than argonians. 3% cost reduction didn't make Breton best healer when they had that plus 12% max magic so where is your logic that our small sustain and 3% cost reduction is good? It's not even close lol.

Argonians have 1k max magic (pretty sure that's a buff from your 3% on live) you still get 6% healing and a good sustain can you share what your smoking with me bruh it must be good stuff