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Raid/Buffed DPS Test [Each Class/Each DD Race] PTS 4.3.3
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Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@susmitds Thank you and your friends for all your work doing these tests and sharing the results with us. I'm curious, what's your opinion for orc/dunmer versus bosmer/redguard for stamDPS, and whether you have done any self-buffed parsing for them. I wonder if this 1-2k difference in damage is worth picking the former races, especially in cases when running in unoptimized groups which don't have clockwork resources, force uptime, etc., and if then the latter would fare better.0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »So Altmer and Breton are virtually identical:
DK: +433 (0.7%)
NB: -449 (0.7%)
Sorc: -219 (0.36%)
Temp: -6 (0.001%)
It seems that variance in the data is greater than any real difference between them.
I can't see any scenario where Altmer would be the preferred race under those margins. Breton gives you virtually identical DPS in addition to superior sustain and survivability. Altmer need to have a bigger reason to pick them. It doesn't need to be more DPS, but something like more health or stronger shields.
Confirmation that there is no significant difference between the two samples:
That means Breton is the clear-cut BiS race for magicka DD as they get extra sustain at no DPS loss.
Actually it means nothing besides that Altmer and Breton are almost on par due to your insignificant differences. When on paper the differences are so tiny, they won't be bigger in a real scenario due to the ton of other variables that come into play and are not affected by racials - at all.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -7 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »So Altmer and Breton are virtually identical:
DK: +433 (0.7%)
NB: -449 (0.7%)
Sorc: -219 (0.36%)
Temp: -6 (0.001%)
It seems that variance in the data is greater than any real difference between them.
I can't see any scenario where Altmer would be the preferred race under those margins. Breton gives you virtually identical DPS in addition to superior sustain and survivability. Altmer need to have a bigger reason to pick them. It doesn't need to be more DPS, but something like more health or stronger shields.
Confirmation that there is no significant difference between the two samples:
That means Breton is the clear-cut BiS race for magicka DD as they get extra sustain at no DPS loss.
Actually it means nothing besides that Altmer and Breton are almost on par due to your insignificant differences. When on paper the differences are so tiny, they won't be bigger in a real scenario due to the ton of other variables that come into play and are not affected by racials - at all.
If DPS is the same and Breton has superior sustain, Breton is the better race.6 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »So Altmer and Breton are virtually identical:
DK: +433 (0.7%)
NB: -449 (0.7%)
Sorc: -219 (0.36%)
Temp: -6 (0.001%)
It seems that variance in the data is greater than any real difference between them.
I can't see any scenario where Altmer would be the preferred race under those margins. Breton gives you virtually identical DPS in addition to superior sustain and survivability. Altmer need to have a bigger reason to pick them. It doesn't need to be more DPS, but something like more health or stronger shields.
Confirmation that there is no significant difference between the two samples:
That means Breton is the clear-cut BiS race for magicka DD as they get extra sustain at no DPS loss.
Actually it means nothing besides that Altmer and Breton are almost on par due to your insignificant differences. When on paper the differences are so tiny, they won't be bigger in a real scenario due to the ton of other variables that come into play and are not affected by racials - at all.
If DPS is the same and Breton has superior sustain, Breton is the better race.
Yes, lets also think about Bosmer, Redguards, Khajiit and Argonians who have far larger problems than beeing bis with a weak passive.
Not saying Altmer should not have something more useful, it would however have to be something who help survival rather than dps as Breton, Altmer and Dunmer is very close.Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@geonsocal @IronWooshu We did not test Nord as we had no reliable means to keep the ulti-regen passive up for the entire combat period. Truth be told, I think Nord is getting the bad side of the deals due to the Imperial Changes. I plan to write up an entire Feedback thread detailing grievances and plus points for each race and etaio. P.m. me to give other points of views.
@Juhasow No Minor Vulnerability, Crusher or Alkosh. Didn't want to add more uptime-based randomness and application of these debuffs also deals damage changing the total damage dealt by the primary DPS.
3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »So Altmer and Breton are virtually identical:
DK: +433 (0.7%)
NB: -449 (0.7%)
Sorc: -219 (0.36%)
Temp: -6 (0.001%)
It seems that variance in the data is greater than any real difference between them.
I can't see any scenario where Altmer would be the preferred race under those margins. Breton gives you virtually identical DPS in addition to superior sustain and survivability. Altmer need to have a bigger reason to pick them. It doesn't need to be more DPS, but something like more health or stronger shields.
Confirmation that there is no significant difference between the two samples:
That means Breton is the clear-cut BiS race for magicka DD as they get extra sustain at no DPS loss.
Actually it means nothing besides that Altmer and Breton are almost on par due to your insignificant differences. When on paper the differences are so tiny, they won't be bigger in a real scenario due to the ton of other variables that come into play and are not affected by racials - at all.
If DPS is the same and Breton has superior sustain, Breton is the better race.
Yes, lets also think about Bosmer, Redguards, Khajiit and Argonians who have far larger problems than beeing bis with a weak passive.
Not saying Altmer should not have something more useful, it would however have to be something who help survival rather than dps as Breton, Altmer and Dunmer is very close.
Reverting the nerf to spell recharge would shrink the gap in sustain. Breton would still be ahead, but it would be less significant.
That change still makes zero sence. It ruined what was effectively as close to perfect balance as you could get between the two races.
I don't disagree that the other races have glaring balance issues as well. Redguard, Bosmer, and Khajiit are simply not competitive picks for stamina right now. But I don't play stamina, so I'm not invested in what happens there. I'd obviously love it if ZOS pulled their head out of the sand and corrected these issues on both sides.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 14, 2019 10:30AM1 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Looks like Khajiti needs a slight bump.
What about 5% crit chance and 5% crit damage?
Bosmer is also disappointingly weak only good on classes that struggle for sustain.
I think they need a small flat penetration bonus to give them a push. (possibly doubled after roll dodge that I have seen suggested)Edited by Narvuntien on February 14, 2019 10:45AM5 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »So Altmer and Breton are virtually identical:
DK: +433 (0.7%)
NB: -449 (0.7%)
Sorc: -219 (0.36%)
Temp: -6 (0.001%)
It seems that variance in the data is greater than any real difference between them.
I can't see any scenario where Altmer would be the preferred race under those margins. Breton gives you virtually identical DPS in addition to superior sustain and survivability. Altmer need to have a bigger reason to pick them. It doesn't need to be more DPS, but something like more health or stronger shields.
Confirmation that there is no significant difference between the two samples:
That means Breton is the clear-cut BiS race for magicka DD as they get extra sustain at no DPS loss.
Actually it means nothing besides that Altmer and Breton are almost on par due to your insignificant differences. When on paper the differences are so tiny, they won't be bigger in a real scenario due to the ton of other variables that come into play and are not affected by racials - at all.
If DPS is the same and Breton has superior sustain, Breton is the better race.
Sustain is not everything. There are short fights where Bretons don't make any use of their sustain (and obviously won't totally change their setup) and there are longer fights were their sustain matters. In shorter fights where "power" matters Altmer pull ahead (that's not up for a debate), in longer fights Bretons might pull ahead. Both races are otherwise on par. That's almost perfect balance. Complaining has to stop as there is no point towards it anymore. Breton is not universally better as some want it to make.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -9 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »So Altmer and Breton are virtually identical:
DK: +433 (0.7%)
NB: -449 (0.7%)
Sorc: -219 (0.36%)
Temp: -6 (0.001%)
It seems that variance in the data is greater than any real difference between them.
I can't see any scenario where Altmer would be the preferred race under those margins. Breton gives you virtually identical DPS in addition to superior sustain and survivability. Altmer need to have a bigger reason to pick them. It doesn't need to be more DPS, but something like more health or stronger shields.
Confirmation that there is no significant difference between the two samples:
That means Breton is the clear-cut BiS race for magicka DD as they get extra sustain at no DPS loss.
Actually it means nothing besides that Altmer and Breton are almost on par due to your insignificant differences. When on paper the differences are so tiny, they won't be bigger in a real scenario due to the ton of other variables that come into play and are not affected by racials - at all.
If DPS is the same and Breton has superior sustain, Breton is the better race.
Sustain is not everything. There are short fights where Bretons don't make any use of their sustain (and obviously won't totally change their setup) and there are longer fights were their sustain matters. In shorter fights where "power" matters Altmer pull ahead (that's not up for a debate), in longer fights Bretons might pull ahead. Both races are otherwise on par. That's almost perfect balance. Complaining has to stop as there is no point towards it anymore. Breton is not universally better as some want it to make.
Where does one find a short fight in endgame PvE?
Breton is 100% universally better in PvE. There is not a single scenario where Altmer outperform them.
The only scenario where Altmer is better is in PvP ganking where they can load up on more upfront damage (but die if the attack fails).Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 14, 2019 10:55AM1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »So Altmer and Breton are virtually identical:
DK: +433 (0.7%)
NB: -449 (0.7%)
Sorc: -219 (0.36%)
Temp: -6 (0.001%)
It seems that variance in the data is greater than any real difference between them.
I can't see any scenario where Altmer would be the preferred race under those margins. Breton gives you virtually identical DPS in addition to superior sustain and survivability. Altmer need to have a bigger reason to pick them. It doesn't need to be more DPS, but something like more health or stronger shields.
Confirmation that there is no significant difference between the two samples:
That means Breton is the clear-cut BiS race for magicka DD as they get extra sustain at no DPS loss.
Actually it means nothing besides that Altmer and Breton are almost on par due to your insignificant differences. When on paper the differences are so tiny, they won't be bigger in a real scenario due to the ton of other variables that come into play and are not affected by racials - at all.
If DPS is the same and Breton has superior sustain, Breton is the better race.
Sustain is not everything. There are short fights where Bretons don't make any use of their sustain (and obviously won't totally change their setup) and there are longer fights were their sustain matters. In shorter fights where "power" matters Altmer pull ahead (that's not up for a debate), in longer fights Bretons might pull ahead. Both races are otherwise on par. That's almost perfect balance. Complaining has to stop as there is no point towards it anymore. Breton is not universally better as some want it to make.
Where does one find a short fight in endgame PvE?
Short lived add fights, bosses with transition phases etc. - and why has it always to be about PvE? In PvP short term burst might be sometimes more important than sustain. As I said, they are on par and both peak under different circumstances. There is no need to buff either of them, they are fine as they are now. We have bigger issues on other races that the devs should focus on, not this marginal differences.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -5 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Did people read everything by OP?
Because people are going "Breton is only just behind but sustains better". But OP replaces an absorb glypg with a beserker to compensate.
So the way I understood it, the DPS parses are based on races having as close sustain as OP could get.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong - just the way I read it.5 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭And in one fell swoop Khajiit isn’t even in a single top two spot for any class in stam OR mag
This needs to get reverted with the next patch
Most races aren’t. And most people won’t even notice the gap because these tests are from the top end of dps range. You need better logic to revert this than “it needs to be reverted”.
I’m not saying don’t revert it, but my goal is balance. There are a lot of tunnel visioned fur lovers on this forum who want khajiit to be top dps for no reason other than they like them.
Of 10 races, Orc, Dunmer, Altmer, and Breton have multiple top 2 spots for dps. Redguard's strong sustain means they still have good appeal as stam dps because their passives can offset imperfect sustain support, same as Breton. Argonians are still top tanks, as are Nords now with the extra resistances and ulti-regen, and Imperials will have a good spot in PvP and as PvE tanks with their stam regen while blocking. Healer's top spots go to Argonian or Breton, maybe some Nord at the expense of stat regen for the ultigen.
Bosmer and Khajiit share an issue now, outside one or two specific specs, they're not appealing as dps, and they don't offer enough utility to make them great healers or tanks. Yes, the best tank tanks on a Khajiit, but he's not the best because of the race, maybe in spite of it when clearly there's more efficient options.
Not once did I ask Khajiit to be the end all be all of dps, but when all they can shine in is PvE dps (due to the nature of crit-heavy racials being a disadvantage in PvP), they shouldn't be outdone by races that can put their strengths into multiple specs and classes so much that they aren't even a top three pick anywhere
Same for Bosmer, they arent the best at anything, they're not even particularly great at anything save a single top 3 spot for stam warden.4 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »So Altmer and Breton are virtually identical:
DK: +433 (0.7%)
NB: -449 (0.7%)
Sorc: -219 (0.36%)
Temp: -6 (0.001%)
It seems that variance in the data is greater than any real difference between them.
I can't see any scenario where Altmer would be the preferred race under those margins. Breton gives you virtually identical DPS in addition to superior sustain and survivability. Altmer need to have a bigger reason to pick them. It doesn't need to be more DPS, but something like more health or stronger shields.
Confirmation that there is no significant difference between the two samples:
That means Breton is the clear-cut BiS race for magicka DD as they get extra sustain at no DPS loss.
Actually it means nothing besides that Altmer and Breton are almost on par due to your insignificant differences. When on paper the differences are so tiny, they won't be bigger in a real scenario due to the ton of other variables that come into play and are not affected by racials - at all.
If DPS is the same and Breton has superior sustain, Breton is the better race.
Sustain is not everything. There are short fights where Bretons don't make any use of their sustain (and obviously won't totally change their setup) and there are longer fights were their sustain matters. In shorter fights where "power" matters Altmer pull ahead (that's not up for a debate), in longer fights Bretons might pull ahead. Both races are otherwise on par. That's almost perfect balance. Complaining has to stop as there is no point towards it anymore. Breton is not universally better as some want it to make.
Where does one find a short fight in endgame PvE?
Breton is 100% universally better in PvE. There is not a single scenario where Altmer outperform them.
The only scenario where Altmer is better is in PvP ganking where they can load up on more upfront damage (but die if the attack fails).
Altmer will also be good for same sustain in PvP. It's like 250 Stam regen. Good for Magplar too - 5% less damage when using your spammable.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »So Altmer and Breton are virtually identical:
DK: +433 (0.7%)
NB: -449 (0.7%)
Sorc: -219 (0.36%)
Temp: -6 (0.001%)
It seems that variance in the data is greater than any real difference between them.
I can't see any scenario where Altmer would be the preferred race under those margins. Breton gives you virtually identical DPS in addition to superior sustain and survivability. Altmer need to have a bigger reason to pick them. It doesn't need to be more DPS, but something like more health or stronger shields.
Confirmation that there is no significant difference between the two samples:
That means Breton is the clear-cut BiS race for magicka DD as they get extra sustain at no DPS loss.
Actually it means nothing besides that Altmer and Breton are almost on par due to your insignificant differences. When on paper the differences are so tiny, they won't be bigger in a real scenario due to the ton of other variables that come into play and are not affected by racials - at all.
If DPS is the same and Breton has superior sustain, Breton is the better race.
Sustain is not everything. There are short fights where Bretons don't make any use of their sustain (and obviously won't totally change their setup) and there are longer fights were their sustain matters. In shorter fights where "power" matters Altmer pull ahead (that's not up for a debate), in longer fights Bretons might pull ahead. Both races are otherwise on par. That's almost perfect balance. Complaining has to stop as there is no point towards it anymore. Breton is not universally better as some want it to make.
Where does one find a short fight in endgame PvE?
Short lived add fights, bosses with transition phases etc. - and why has it always to be about PvE? In PvP short term burst might be sometimes more important than sustain. As I said, they are on par and both peak under different circumstances. There is no need to buff either of them, they are fine as they are now. We have bigger issues on other races that the devs should focus on, not this marginal differences.
Nobody is going to slot different enchantments for trash fights and boss fights. That's absurd (you'd either need 2 copies of every weapon or you'd need to apply a new glyph, that costs 3k gold, after every fight). There is no reason to pick any race other than Breton in PvE right now. That's a problem.
At least on live, you make a choice between Altmer and Dunmer. If you want more DPS, you pick Dunmer. If you want more sustain, you pick Altmer. Breton get both right now.
Altmer (and Dunmer, Khajiit) provide nothing over and above what Breton provide. They are objectively inferior options.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 14, 2019 11:07AM0 -
Arciris✭✭✭✭✭
✭People cried Khajiit was Overperforming because of a +300 to 500 DPS in Trial setting, while being 2º or 3º on 4 men, solo content.
But now that Khajiit is behind by 1kk DPS, everything is suddenly "balanced"???
And it's not even about the numbers, who cares about the numbers.
It's about FUN.
They took a passive that was FUN to build around (high build diversity) and turned it into something dull and boring that shoehorns Khajiit into building for high critical chance, while making it a very poor choice for 2 classes! (one of which is thematically suited for thief and stealh playstyle - Nightblade, for PvE of course, for PvP there's gankstyle still).
They could have nerfed the passive to +7% critical chance (from 8%), the numbers would have been brought in line and the FUN would have been preserved.10 -
Kolzki✭✭✭✭✭So the Shadow Mundus doesn’t work as well with the khajiit feline ambush passive so khajiit do better with a different mundus.
The shadow mundus (19% crit damage all divines) is much stronger than the khajiit passive (10%). This means that khajiit have the lowest base damage and crit damage of the magic races? Interesting. And completely counterintuitive.3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »There is no reason to pick any race other than Breton in PvE right now. That's a problem.
I don't want to be rude but this problem exists solely in your (and a few others') head(s).PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -6 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »There is no reason to pick any race other than Breton in PvE right now. That's a problem.
I don't want to be rude but this problem exists solely in your (and a few others') head(s).
Then explain to me a single endgame scenario where it is advantageous to pick Altmer over Breton.
You said Altmer are better in trash fights. How many people have duplicates of their vMA or other set staves and can just carry 2 around (1 with a berserker glyph and 1 with an absorb glyph) to swap out between trash fights and boss fights?Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 14, 2019 1:09PM0 -
royo✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »There is no reason to pick any race other than Breton in PvE right now. That's a problem.
I don't want to be rude but this problem exists solely in your (and a few others') head(s).
Then explain to me a single endgame scenario where it is advantageous to pick Altmer over Breton.
You said Altmer are better in trash fights. How many people have duplicates of their vMA or other set staves and can just carry 2 around (1 with a berserker glyph and 1 with an absorb glyph) to swap out between trash fights and boss fights?
I'd probably run altmer for Cloudrest +3 score runs. Sustain is easy if you stay upstairs and stam can be a problem.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No idea that ZoS was thinking, note that the theory crafting before this change showed it to be much the same as before but more equal over classes and an small nerf to magic and buff to stamina because of gear.People cried Khajiit was Overperforming because of a +300 to 500 DPS in Trial setting, while being 2º or 3º on 4 men, solo content.
But now that Khajiit is behind by 1kk DPS, everything is suddenly "balanced"???
And it's not even about the numbers, who cares about the numbers.
It's about FUN.
They took a passive that was FUN to build around (high build diversity) and turned it into something dull and boring that shoehorns Khajiit into building for high critical chance, while making it a very poor choice for 2 classes! (one of which is thematically suited for thief and stealh playstyle - Nightblade, for PvE of course, for PvP there's gankstyle still).
They could have nerfed the passive to +7% critical chance (from 8%), the numbers would have been brought in line and the FUN would have been preserved.
Kind of suspect ZoS used the same calculations without good testing.Edited by zaria on February 14, 2019 1:28PMGrinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
Morgul667✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seems overall ok
Except khajit change that makes no sense at all
As well as orc being best dos and most tanky2 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No idea that ZoS was thinking, note that the theory crafting before this change showed it to be much the same as before but more equal over classes and an small nerf to magic and buff to stamina because of gear.People cried Khajiit was Overperforming because of a +300 to 500 DPS in Trial setting, while being 2º or 3º on 4 men, solo content.
But now that Khajiit is behind by 1kk DPS, everything is suddenly "balanced"???
And it's not even about the numbers, who cares about the numbers.
It's about FUN.
They took a passive that was FUN to build around (high build diversity) and turned it into something dull and boring that shoehorns Khajiit into building for high critical chance, while making it a very poor choice for 2 classes! (one of which is thematically suited for thief and stealh playstyle - Nightblade, for PvE of course, for PvP there's gankstyle still).
They could have nerfed the passive to +7% critical chance (from 8%), the numbers would have been brought in line and the FUN would have been preserved.
Kind of suspect ZoS used the same calculations without good testing.
It is quite close on stamina on solo parses if you optimize CP. Major Force (and Shadow) is where the issues begin as they have very high values to optimize with CP.0 -
Kolzki✭✭✭✭✭
No idea that ZoS was thinking, note that the theory crafting before this change showed it to be much the same as before but more equal over classes and an small nerf to magic and buff to stamina because of gear.People cried Khajiit was Overperforming because of a +300 to 500 DPS in Trial setting, while being 2º or 3º on 4 men, solo content.
But now that Khajiit is behind by 1kk DPS, everything is suddenly "balanced"???
And it's not even about the numbers, who cares about the numbers.
It's about FUN.
They took a passive that was FUN to build around (high build diversity) and turned it into something dull and boring that shoehorns Khajiit into building for high critical chance, while making it a very poor choice for 2 classes! (one of which is thematically suited for thief and stealh playstyle - Nightblade, for PvE of course, for PvP there's gankstyle still).
They could have nerfed the passive to +7% critical chance (from 8%), the numbers would have been brought in line and the FUN would have been preserved.
Kind of suspect ZoS used the same calculations without good testing.
It is quite close on stamina on solo parses if you optimize CP. Major Force (and Shadow) is where the issues begin as they have very high values to optimize with CP.
It’s also difficult to reallocate cp away from maximising crit damage. I thought this might be an option for khajiit and I tried it on pts yesterday. It doesn’t work. At max cp there are so many cp in each tree that diminishing returns kick in. Moving cp out of crit damage to take the shadow isn’t really an option.1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No idea that ZoS was thinking, note that the theory crafting before this change showed it to be much the same as before but more equal over classes and an small nerf to magic and buff to stamina because of gear.People cried Khajiit was Overperforming because of a +300 to 500 DPS in Trial setting, while being 2º or 3º on 4 men, solo content.
But now that Khajiit is behind by 1kk DPS, everything is suddenly "balanced"???
And it's not even about the numbers, who cares about the numbers.
It's about FUN.
They took a passive that was FUN to build around (high build diversity) and turned it into something dull and boring that shoehorns Khajiit into building for high critical chance, while making it a very poor choice for 2 classes! (one of which is thematically suited for thief and stealh playstyle - Nightblade, for PvE of course, for PvP there's gankstyle still).
They could have nerfed the passive to +7% critical chance (from 8%), the numbers would have been brought in line and the FUN would have been preserved.
Kind of suspect ZoS used the same calculations without good testing.
It is quite close on stamina on solo parses if you optimize CP. Major Force (and Shadow) is where the issues begin as they have very high values to optimize with CP.
It’s also difficult to reallocate cp away from maximising crit damage. I thought this might be an option for khajiit and I tried it on pts yesterday. It doesn’t work. At max cp there are so many cp in each tree that diminishing returns kick in. Moving cp out of crit damage to take the shadow isn’t really an option.
Exactly this. On an optimized build, I already have around 50-60 points in everything. Crit Damage scales very fast with 25% total. Moving more than 10 out of Crit Damage stars devalues my whole offense setup in general as other stars are mostly saturated already.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
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No idea that ZoS was thinking, note that the theory crafting before this change showed it to be much the same as before but more equal over classes and an small nerf to magic and buff to stamina because of gear.People cried Khajiit was Overperforming because of a +300 to 500 DPS in Trial setting, while being 2º or 3º on 4 men, solo content.
But now that Khajiit is behind by 1kk DPS, everything is suddenly "balanced"???
And it's not even about the numbers, who cares about the numbers.
It's about FUN.
They took a passive that was FUN to build around (high build diversity) and turned it into something dull and boring that shoehorns Khajiit into building for high critical chance, while making it a very poor choice for 2 classes! (one of which is thematically suited for thief and stealh playstyle - Nightblade, for PvE of course, for PvP there's gankstyle still).
They could have nerfed the passive to +7% critical chance (from 8%), the numbers would have been brought in line and the FUN would have been preserved.
Kind of suspect ZoS used the same calculations without good testing.
This is what ZOS does every time. They always go with the sledgehammer instead of the chisel.2
