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Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest magicka DPS?
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Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Tell that to altmer and dunmer. Both have had damage and especially in the case of altmer, their sustain nerfed. They were meta DPS races, and there are now objectively better options.
Which option is better? Breton, because of sustain? Look at the parses. Altmer is now with the Khajiit nerf most likely the top Magicka DPS. Breton has great sustain but lacks the power Altmer and Dunmer offer. All Magicka races are fine in their current iteration. Maybe Khajiit will fall down a bit due to the recent changes but Altmer and Dunmer are totally fine and still top picks for Magicka DPS.
Again, parses only show half the picture. They don't tell you anything about survivability or the ability to perform under pressure. If nothing is hitting you and the target is stationary, you might get away with costs of 1500 to 2000 magicka per second. If the target is fighting back and is mobile you might face 4000 magicka per second ... at that point the difference in sustain will definitely show, despite parses claiming that both are equal.
So your arguments are based on feels? I mean I understand what you mean but the parses are the best indicator we have for DPS.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭notimetocare wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Even before today's massive nerfs to Altmer, Altmer were the third highest magicka DPS race, but at least they were competitive. They are no longer competitive. Dunmer were never competitive and today's small buffs don't help.
What does the lore say about Khajiit and Breton being the top magicka DPS? With rumours that Lawrence Schick is leaving, it seems ZOS is already throwing lore out the window.
Also, Altmer are now a hybrid race. I'm pretty sure the lore doesn't support this either.
What are you talking about... every race is viable now for every roll. 3-4k dps difference between the best and worst race at 60k parses is negligible. Quit fearmongering
It's actually a 5% to 7% difference in DPS, that is significant.
In reality, thos numbers show it isnt. That's at a level the vast majority of players will never reach in content that even less people will ever do. The majority of players will see maybe 1-2k out is 20-25k, and is also only comparing the best race and a non-bonus race. The difference between the best and worst dps (assuming magicka based character vs another magicka based character) it's closer to 1k out of 60k. Read into the info a bit more. The forum comparing them all has been linked a ton.0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Altmer lowest Magicka DPS... my a**.
https://youtu.be/G-bschHlvCo
Altmer is doing excellent and there was no doubt about it.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Tell that to altmer and dunmer. Both have had damage and especially in the case of altmer, their sustain nerfed. They were meta DPS races, and there are now objectively better options.
Which option is better? Breton, because of sustain? Look at the parses. Altmer is now with the Khajiit nerf most likely the top Magicka DPS. Breton has great sustain but lacks the power Altmer and Dunmer offer. All Magicka races are fine in their current iteration. Maybe Khajiit will fall down a bit due to the recent changes but Altmer and Dunmer are totally fine and still top picks for Magicka DPS.
Again, parses only show half the picture. They don't tell you anything about survivability or the ability to perform under pressure. If nothing is hitting you and the target is stationary, you might get away with costs of 1500 to 2000 magicka per second. If the target is fighting back and is mobile you might face 4000 magicka per second ... at that point the difference in sustain will definitely show, despite parses claiming that both are equal.
The mathematician that posted all the tests every patch said himself he is 100% going with Breton if things stay the same.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Because it’s a cash grabbed diguised as balance. They know that most serious end game players that min/max have multiple toons. For the most part for DPS they are altmer/Dunmer for magic and redguard for stamina. They want to force people to buy tokens and call it balance.
The 3 free ones are akin to a crack dealer giving the first one for free...
But Altmer are still the best in endgame raid situations since you don't have to worry about sustain.
They are not, u will see in progression guilds on magicka Bretons and Khajiits, there's no point to take altmer, they are useless. On stamina u will see Khajiits/Orcs, more sustain will let you on more option in builds.
As reguard where u dont need to do many heavy attacaks compare to other races. On nb/warden there is 0 heavy attacks with redguard race.
That is just not true. In an optimized raid group where sustain is not an issue Altmer can build for more damage than both Bretons and Khajiit.
In really optimized group u will play as stamblade so pls :P and Bretons still out dps altmer, if u will swap absorb on berserk u will have some sustain issue, so yea breton will dominating with 194 sd more and will be more tanky
I keep seeing this argument even though it makes no sense in most cases. If you're playing in a group (trials, dungeons, etc) sustain won't be an issue even with a berserk on the back bar thanks to shards/orbs. If you're playing solo in overland content then things die too fast for you to have sustain issues.
There's only 2 situations where you would be playing solo and your sustain would matter: Maelstrom Arena and on a target dummy (self buffed). In those 2 situations Breton will do better than Altmer but that's it. I don't know about you but I'd rather hit harder in trials and dungeons rather than on dummies.
In fact we have a similar situation on live right now between Altmer and Dunmer. Dunmer hits harder on single target but Altmer has better sustain. I'm going to let you guess which one was used more in trials (hint: @MLGProPlayer has been saying it in every thread he's been in).
Even with orbs/shards, you still need magicka absorb enchant or regen food.
Regen food barely even hurts your DPS, most builds already run it, and you can also get warhorn rotations between tank and healer outside of mechanics that need heal or shield ults.
Very corecct. Top magicka dps has often run witchmothers brew or the clockwork city recipe.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭grannas211 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Tell that to altmer and dunmer. Both have had damage and especially in the case of altmer, their sustain nerfed. They were meta DPS races, and there are now objectively better options.
Which option is better? Breton, because of sustain? Look at the parses. Altmer is now with the Khajiit nerf most likely the top Magicka DPS. Breton has great sustain but lacks the power Altmer and Dunmer offer. All Magicka races are fine in their current iteration. Maybe Khajiit will fall down a bit due to the recent changes but Altmer and Dunmer are totally fine and still top picks for Magicka DPS.
Again, parses only show half the picture. They don't tell you anything about survivability or the ability to perform under pressure. If nothing is hitting you and the target is stationary, you might get away with costs of 1500 to 2000 magicka per second. If the target is fighting back and is mobile you might face 4000 magicka per second ... at that point the difference in sustain will definitely show, despite parses claiming that both are equal.
The mathematician that posted all the tests every patch said himself he is 100% going with Breton if things stay the same.
There is no reason to use Altmer over Breton. Breton is simply more reliable in raid/dungeon scenarios.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 13, 2019 8:43PM2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Because it’s a cash grabbed diguised as balance. They know that most serious end game players that min/max have multiple toons. For the most part for DPS they are altmer/Dunmer for magic and redguard for stamina. They want to force people to buy tokens and call it balance.
The 3 free ones are akin to a crack dealer giving the first one for free...
But Altmer are still the best in endgame raid situations since you don't have to worry about sustain.
They are not, u will see in progression guilds on magicka Bretons and Khajiits, there's no point to take altmer, they are useless. On stamina u will see Khajiits/Orcs, more sustain will let you on more option in builds.
As reguard where u dont need to do many heavy attacaks compare to other races. On nb/warden there is 0 heavy attacks with redguard race.
That is just not true. In an optimized raid group where sustain is not an issue Altmer can build for more damage than both Bretons and Khajiit.
In really optimized group u will play as stamblade so pls :P and Bretons still out dps altmer, if u will swap absorb on berserk u will have some sustain issue, so yea breton will dominating with 194 sd more and will be more tanky
I keep seeing this argument even though it makes no sense in most cases. If you're playing in a group (trials, dungeons, etc) sustain won't be an issue even with a berserk on the back bar thanks to shards/orbs. If you're playing solo in overland content then things die too fast for you to have sustain issues.
There's only 2 situations where you would be playing solo and your sustain would matter: Maelstrom Arena and on a target dummy (self buffed). In those 2 situations Breton will do better than Altmer but that's it. I don't know about you but I'd rather hit harder in trials and dungeons rather than on dummies.
In fact we have a similar situation on live right now between Altmer and Dunmer. Dunmer hits harder on single target but Altmer has better sustain. I'm going to let you guess which one was used more in trials (hint: @MLGProPlayer has been saying it in every thread he's been in).
Even with orbs/shards, you still need magicka absorb enchant or regen food.
Regen food barely even hurts your DPS, most builds already run it, and you can also get warhorn rotations between tank and healer outside of mechanics that need heal or shield ults.
Very corecct. Top magicka dps has often run witchmothers brew or the clockwork city recipe.
Gold food vs. Blue food is a 1.5k max magicka difference. That's huge.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Because it’s a cash grabbed diguised as balance. They know that most serious end game players that min/max have multiple toons. For the most part for DPS they are altmer/Dunmer for magic and redguard for stamina. They want to force people to buy tokens and call it balance.
The 3 free ones are akin to a crack dealer giving the first one for free...
But Altmer are still the best in endgame raid situations since you don't have to worry about sustain.
They are not, u will see in progression guilds on magicka Bretons and Khajiits, there's no point to take altmer, they are useless. On stamina u will see Khajiits/Orcs, more sustain will let you on more option in builds.
As reguard where u dont need to do many heavy attacaks compare to other races. On nb/warden there is 0 heavy attacks with redguard race.
That is just not true. In an optimized raid group where sustain is not an issue Altmer can build for more damage than both Bretons and Khajiit.
In really optimized group u will play as stamblade so pls :P and Bretons still out dps altmer, if u will swap absorb on berserk u will have some sustain issue, so yea breton will dominating with 194 sd more and will be more tanky
I keep seeing this argument even though it makes no sense in most cases. If you're playing in a group (trials, dungeons, etc) sustain won't be an issue even with a berserk on the back bar thanks to shards/orbs. If you're playing solo in overland content then things die too fast for you to have sustain issues.
There's only 2 situations where you would be playing solo and your sustain would matter: Maelstrom Arena and on a target dummy (self buffed). In those 2 situations Breton will do better than Altmer but that's it. I don't know about you but I'd rather hit harder in trials and dungeons rather than on dummies.
In fact we have a similar situation on live right now between Altmer and Dunmer. Dunmer hits harder on single target but Altmer has better sustain. I'm going to let you guess which one was used more in trials (hint: @MLGProPlayer has been saying it in every thread he's been in).
Even with orbs/shards, you still need magicka absorb enchant or regen food.
Regen food barely even hurts your DPS, most builds already run it, and you can also get warhorn rotations between tank and healer outside of mechanics that need heal or shield ults.
Very corecct. Top magicka dps has often run witchmothers brew or the clockwork city recipe.
Gold food vs. Blue food is a 1.5k max magicka difference. That's huge.
Funny thing is the top raid groups have often used that since it was released, witchmothers brew before that. Considering they are always testing things to improve their damage they pretty much know what works better.0 -
Kalle_Demos✭✭✭✭✭ZOS claimed that one of their goals was to ensure that the passives had universal applicability. I do not see that here with the Altmer Spell Charge passive.
"If I am to be Queen, I must look fear in the face and conquer it. How can I ask my people to have faith in me if I don't have faith in myself?" - Queen Ayrenn0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kalle_Demos wrote: »ZOS claimed that one of their goals was to ensure that the passives had universal applicability. I do not see that here with the Altmer Spell Charge passive.
You're never using Stamina in PvE? I pretty much doubt that.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Kalle_Demos wrote: »ZOS claimed that one of their goals was to ensure that the passives had universal applicability. I do not see that here with the Altmer Spell Charge passive.
You're never using Stamina in PvE? I pretty much doubt that.
I know I do.
However, the phrase the person you quoted used seems to be taken out of context a little. It does not seem to fit with the explanation Gil provided.
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DarkPicture✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Kalle_Demos wrote: »ZOS claimed that one of their goals was to ensure that the passives had universal applicability. I do not see that here with the Altmer Spell Charge passive.
You're never using Stamina in PvE? I pretty much doubt that.
Those arguments make amuse me xDDDD Heavy attacks for 5% reduction dmg and stamina recovery for pve xD
Im sure u trolling or just trying make magicka races worse then they are.Edited by DarkPicture on February 14, 2019 12:21PM1 -
DarkPicture✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Because it’s a cash grabbed diguised as balance. They know that most serious end game players that min/max have multiple toons. For the most part for DPS they are altmer/Dunmer for magic and redguard for stamina. They want to force people to buy tokens and call it balance.
The 3 free ones are akin to a crack dealer giving the first one for free...
But Altmer are still the best in endgame raid situations since you don't have to worry about sustain.
They are not, u will see in progression guilds on magicka Bretons and Khajiits, there's no point to take altmer, they are useless. On stamina u will see Khajiits/Orcs, more sustain will let you on more option in builds.
As reguard where u dont need to do many heavy attacaks compare to other races. On nb/warden there is 0 heavy attacks with redguard race.
That is just not true. In an optimized raid group where sustain is not an issue Altmer can build for more damage than both Bretons and Khajiit.
In really optimized group u will play as stamblade so pls :P and Bretons still out dps altmer, if u will swap absorb on berserk u will have some sustain issue, so yea breton will dominating with 194 sd more and will be more tanky
I keep seeing this argument even though it makes no sense in most cases. If you're playing in a group (trials, dungeons, etc) sustain won't be an issue even with a berserk on the back bar thanks to shards/orbs. If you're playing solo in overland content then things die too fast for you to have sustain issues.
There's only 2 situations where you would be playing solo and your sustain would matter: Maelstrom Arena and on a target dummy (self buffed). In those 2 situations Breton will do better than Altmer but that's it. I don't know about you but I'd rather hit harder in trials and dungeons rather than on dummies.
In fact we have a similar situation on live right now between Altmer and Dunmer. Dunmer hits harder on single target but Altmer has better sustain. I'm going to let you guess which one was used more in trials (hint: @MLGProPlayer has been saying it in every thread he's been in).
Even with orbs/shards, you still need magicka absorb enchant or regen food.
Regen food barely even hurts your DPS, most builds already run it, and you can also get warhorn rotations between tank and healer outside of mechanics that need heal or shield ults.
Very corecct. Top magicka dps has often run witchmothers brew or the clockwork city recipe.
Gold food vs. Blue food is a 1.5k max magicka difference. That's huge.
Funny thing is the top raid groups have often used that since it was released, witchmothers brew before that. Considering they are always testing things to improve their damage they pretty much know what works better.
So maybe u watching wrong groups? Because before nerfs for nb sustain in murkmire, the best groups was running blue food.Edited by DarkPicture on February 14, 2019 12:23PM1