Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest magicka DPS?

bardx86 · February 2019

Dracane wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.

It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.

Everyone is going to get shorter thats for sure :P

Dracane · February 2019

bardx86 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.

It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.

Everyone is going to get shorter thats for sure :P

Have you noticed that most Bretons have such ugly moon faces ? They look so weird.
So everyone will get shorter and more lunar.

Olupajmibanan · February 2019

Dracane wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.

It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.

Even the lead ZoS lore designer is leaving.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715

Nobody can stop this. Maybe after todays pts patch, Altmers will realise that magic is for weaklings and muscles are all they need. Even more stamina restore, magicka passive changed to stamina passive and spell dmg remains here to be a hybrid race.

Dracane · February 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.

It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.

Even the lead ZoS lore designer is leaving.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/55715

Nobody can stop this. Maybe after todays pts patch, Altmers will realise that magic is for weaklings and muscles are all they need. Even more stamina restore, magicka passive changed to stamina passive and spell dmg remains here to be a hybrid race.

I am aware. In my imagination, he is leaving because of the lore breaking changes.

It sounds more dramatic this way.

Lord-Otto · February 2019

My High Elven lady is already pushing bars. By the time Wrathstone comes out, she'll look like Schwarzenegger. On the plus, won't need no siege then. She'll just smash through gates with her bare hands.

Dracane · February 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

My High Elven lady is already pushing bars. By the time Wrathstone comes out, she'll look like Schwarzenegger. On the plus, won't need no siege then. She'll just smash through gates with her bare hands.

Lord-Otto · February 2019

Yes, like that! xD
Oh god, I'm gonna have nightmares today...
(>~<)

Dracane · February 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yes, like that! xD
Oh god, I'm gonna have nightmares today...
(>~<)

This is Chris Murrel.

She is awesome; no harm intended.
Seeing a High Elf like this however, it just does not feel right.

Lord-Otto · February 2019

Imagine an Altmer lady like that trying to hold a wooden staff! She'll break it immediately! xD

Olupajmibanan · February 2019

Altmers are going to be armwrestling champions

winning any competition in tamriel. Uesp and esowiki should rewrite Altmer lore description.

IzzyStardust · February 2019

Dracane wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.

It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.

Everyone is going to get shorter thats for sure :P

Have you noticed that most Bretons have such ugly moon faces ? They look so weird.
So everyone will get shorter and more lunar.

and their eyes are weird and always too close together.

Dracane · February 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Altmers are going to be armwrestling champions winning any competition in tamriel. Uesp and esowiki should rewrite Altmer lore description.

I am currently replaying Oblivion. And I have also done the Imperial Arena again.
The gamemaster always laughs when the enemy team sends Altmer into combat. He always says "Don't get hit by the spells and just get up close and give them a good swing !"

He probably wouldn't say that about ESO Altmer. They do not send spells your way, they give you a counter swing.

idk · February 2019

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457935/stamina-magicka-raid-warhorn-dps-solo-sustain-dps-tests-graphs-with-cp-stat-boost-correction-4-3-2#latest

Guess which race got highest raid DPS.

Thank you for the numbers. As expected Bretons are ahead of Altmers, but the difference seems to be below 1k DPS. It's that 1 or 2 set bonus(es) they got more. But with less than 1% difference, it is not really significant.

The problem is: try yourself, Altmer with absorb magicka glyph and then Breton with berserker glyph. Dps difference is negligible but sustain difference is pretty noticeable, being much better on Breton. This is especially true for classes that have small in-built sustain like magsorc. No reason to pick Altmer.

I have to admit I am also slightly worried about PvP, b/c the magicka consumption tends to be higher there. But Bretons 3% cost reduction translates into roughly 600 to 700 Magicka Regen. Add to that the 100 Magicka Regen from the other passive and you will have 700 to 800 Magicka Regen. -> Bretons got about 5.5 Set Bonuses worth of racial passives in magicka regen & equivalents alone.

Altmers on the other hand got 258 Spell Damage and roughly 200 Stam Regen. -> Altmers got about 3.5 Set Bonuses.

The 2000 Max Magicka doesn't matter because both have races have it.

The 5% damage reduction is pretty much a templar-only thing. And the 2.3k to 4.6k spell resi pretty much beats it in almost every scenario. The difference in these 2 passives will never show on any parses.

So Bretons are 2 Set Bonuses ahead of Altmers - even more if you include those defensive passives that don't show in parses!

That's the problem. Even with the old passive, Breton still had a better kit. These Altmer nerfs have to be one of the most dumbfounding nerfs I've ever seen in a video game.

This does not make sense. If meaning the passives on live then Bretton is not one of the top two magicka races for DPS. Dunmer slightly outperforms High Elf so it becomes a choice between the two for slightly more damage or some sustain. Not sure how you can say Bretton has a better kit. If you are talking about some time long ago I still cannot recall Bretton being on top.

Bretton is the third but certainly gives up damage.

Lord-Otto · February 2019

Dracane wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Altmers are going to be armwrestling champions winning any competition in tamriel. Uesp and esowiki should rewrite Altmer lore description.

I am currently replaying Oblivion. And I have also done the Imperial Arena again.
The gamemaster always laughs when the enemy team sends Altmer into combat. He always says "Don't get hit by the spells and just get up close and give them a good swing !"

He probably wouldn't say that about ESO Altmer. They do not send spells your way, they give you a counter swing.

Don't need to swing. ESO Altmers could just run circles in the arena until the enemy team dies of exhaustion.

...oh.
Oooh!
OOOOOH!!!

I GOT IT!
This is actually a secret super buff for Cyrodiil!
As ZOS believe the stuck in combat bug is "vital" to ESO's gameplay, the stamina return will help us run from keep to keep faster! The cooldown aligns somewhat with casting Boundless! We'll be the fastest force around! OPOPOP! Get lost, old swift jewelry, here come the Maniac Marathon Mer!
\(>.<)/

Olupajmibanan · February 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Altmers are going to be armwrestling champions winning any competition in tamriel. Uesp and esowiki should rewrite Altmer lore description.

I am currently replaying Oblivion. And I have also done the Imperial Arena again.
The gamemaster always laughs when the enemy team sends Altmer into combat. He always says "Don't get hit by the spells and just get up close and give them a good swing !"

He probably wouldn't say that about ESO Altmer. They do not send spells your way, they give you a counter swing.

Don't need to swing. ESO Altmers could just run circles in the arena until the enemy team dies of exhaustion.

...oh.
Oooh!
OOOOOH!!!

I GOT IT!
This is actually a secret super buff for Cyrodiil!
As ZOS believe the stuck in combat bug is "vital" to ESO's gameplay, the stamina return will help us run from keep to keep faster! The cooldown aligns somewhat with casting Boundless! We'll be the fastest force around! OPOPOP! Get lost, old swift jewelry, here come the Maniac Marathon Mer!
\(>.<)/

Altmers would be good torch runners at Olympics. They can light the torch with the little magic they have left and they'll run like Olympic champions with so much stamina!

Olupajmibanan · February 2019

Could somebody make a picture of evolution of Altmer trough Elder Scrolls games?

From a soft, pompeous mage in robe to super-muscled bodybuilding champion.

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

idk wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457935/stamina-magicka-raid-warhorn-dps-solo-sustain-dps-tests-graphs-with-cp-stat-boost-correction-4-3-2#latest

Guess which race got highest raid DPS.

Thank you for the numbers. As expected Bretons are ahead of Altmers, but the difference seems to be below 1k DPS. It's that 1 or 2 set bonus(es) they got more. But with less than 1% difference, it is not really significant.

The problem is: try yourself, Altmer with absorb magicka glyph and then Breton with berserker glyph. Dps difference is negligible but sustain difference is pretty noticeable, being much better on Breton. This is especially true for classes that have small in-built sustain like magsorc. No reason to pick Altmer.

I have to admit I am also slightly worried about PvP, b/c the magicka consumption tends to be higher there. But Bretons 3% cost reduction translates into roughly 600 to 700 Magicka Regen. Add to that the 100 Magicka Regen from the other passive and you will have 700 to 800 Magicka Regen. -> Bretons got about 5.5 Set Bonuses worth of racial passives in magicka regen & equivalents alone.

Altmers on the other hand got 258 Spell Damage and roughly 200 Stam Regen. -> Altmers got about 3.5 Set Bonuses.

The 2000 Max Magicka doesn't matter because both have races have it.

The 5% damage reduction is pretty much a templar-only thing. And the 2.3k to 4.6k spell resi pretty much beats it in almost every scenario. The difference in these 2 passives will never show on any parses.

So Bretons are 2 Set Bonuses ahead of Altmers - even more if you include those defensive passives that don't show in parses!

That's the problem. Even with the old passive, Breton still had a better kit. These Altmer nerfs have to be one of the most dumbfounding nerfs I've ever seen in a video game.

This does not make sense. If meaning the passives on live then Bretton is not one of the top two magicka races for DPS. Dunmer slightly outperforms High Elf so it becomes a choice between the two for slightly more damage or some sustain. Not sure how you can say Bretton has a better kit. If you are talking about some time long ago I still cannot recall Bretton being on top.

Bretton is the third but certainly gives up damage.

I'm not talking about live. Breton suck on live. I meant the Altmer's old passive from PTS 1.

Lord-Otto · February 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Altmers are going to be armwrestling champions winning any competition in tamriel. Uesp and esowiki should rewrite Altmer lore description.

I am currently replaying Oblivion. And I have also done the Imperial Arena again.
The gamemaster always laughs when the enemy team sends Altmer into combat. He always says "Don't get hit by the spells and just get up close and give them a good swing !"

He probably wouldn't say that about ESO Altmer. They do not send spells your way, they give you a counter swing.

Don't need to swing. ESO Altmers could just run circles in the arena until the enemy team dies of exhaustion.

...oh.
Oooh!
OOOOOH!!!

I GOT IT!
This is actually a secret super buff for Cyrodiil!
As ZOS believe the stuck in combat bug is "vital" to ESO's gameplay, the stamina return will help us run from keep to keep faster! The cooldown aligns somewhat with casting Boundless! We'll be the fastest force around! OPOPOP! Get lost, old swift jewelry, here come the Maniac Marathon Mer!
\(>.<)/

Altmers would be good torch runners at Olympics. They can light the torch with the little magic they have left and they'll run like Olympic champions with so much stamina!

"Mommy, why are High Elves so tall?"
"So they can reach the torch better!"

It all makes sense now!
(0.0)

MLGProPlayer · February 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Could somebody make a picture of evolution of Altmer trough Elder Scrolls games? From a soft, pompeous mage in robe to super-muscled bodybuilding champion.

ZOS doubles down on the changes tomorrow and replaces Altmer max magicka and spell damage with max stamina and weapon damage, to complete the transformation.

Dracane · February 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Altmers are going to be armwrestling champions winning any competition in tamriel. Uesp and esowiki should rewrite Altmer lore description.

I am currently replaying Oblivion. And I have also done the Imperial Arena again.
The gamemaster always laughs when the enemy team sends Altmer into combat. He always says "Don't get hit by the spells and just get up close and give them a good swing !"

He probably wouldn't say that about ESO Altmer. They do not send spells your way, they give you a counter swing.

Don't need to swing. ESO Altmers could just run circles in the arena until the enemy team dies of exhaustion.

...oh.
Oooh!
OOOOOH!!!

I GOT IT!
This is actually a secret super buff for Cyrodiil!
As ZOS believe the stuck in combat bug is "vital" to ESO's gameplay, the stamina return will help us run from keep to keep faster! The cooldown aligns somewhat with casting Boundless! We'll be the fastest force around! OPOPOP! Get lost, old swift jewelry, here come the Maniac Marathon Mer!
\(>.<)/

You are acting like 200 unscaling stamina regen is going to make us olympian athlets.

John_Falstaff · February 2019

@MLGProPlayer , 11:48 - "...keep in mind, those are just assumptions, I haven't tested anything on the PTS yet..." - basically same way as whole this thread you've started, except you didn't declare that you're just making assumptions. ^^

And with all respect, not a go-to source of always correct assumptions, either, known to have jumped the gun before, like with the Murkmire doomsday predictions. And it's already seen that some points are clearly flawed in the video - like the note about "sustain like redguard" while forgetting how much more max stats redguard is going to get running blue food (now buffed by 20%) compared to khajiit running purple/gold - and yes, having more sustain, but way less max stats (which translates into damage directly). So no, not a definitive source.

And I'm not even commenting on "if you're playing mechanics properly, you don't need stamina". For one, I postpone until I see your leaderboard scores, for another, I'm glad that they balance races around regular players who aren't always perfect with mechanics.

Olupajmibanan · February 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Altmers are going to be armwrestling champions winning any competition in tamriel. Uesp and esowiki should rewrite Altmer lore description.

I am currently replaying Oblivion. And I have also done the Imperial Arena again.
The gamemaster always laughs when the enemy team sends Altmer into combat. He always says "Don't get hit by the spells and just get up close and give them a good swing !"

He probably wouldn't say that about ESO Altmer. They do not send spells your way, they give you a counter swing.

Don't need to swing. ESO Altmers could just run circles in the arena until the enemy team dies of exhaustion.

...oh.
Oooh!
OOOOOH!!!

I GOT IT!
This is actually a secret super buff for Cyrodiil!
As ZOS believe the stuck in combat bug is "vital" to ESO's gameplay, the stamina return will help us run from keep to keep faster! The cooldown aligns somewhat with casting Boundless! We'll be the fastest force around! OPOPOP! Get lost, old swift jewelry, here come the Maniac Marathon Mer!
\(>.<)/

Altmers would be good torch runners at Olympics. They can light the torch with the little magic they have left and they'll run like Olympic champions with so much stamina!

"Mommy, why are High Elves so tall?"
"So they can reach the torch better!"

It all makes sense now!
(0.0)

Man, you are genius. This makes a lot of sense

Lord-Otto · February 2019

Dracane wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Altmers are going to be armwrestling champions winning any competition in tamriel. Uesp and esowiki should rewrite Altmer lore description.

I am currently replaying Oblivion. And I have also done the Imperial Arena again.
The gamemaster always laughs when the enemy team sends Altmer into combat. He always says "Don't get hit by the spells and just get up close and give them a good swing !"

He probably wouldn't say that about ESO Altmer. They do not send spells your way, they give you a counter swing.

Don't need to swing. ESO Altmers could just run circles in the arena until the enemy team dies of exhaustion.

...oh.
Oooh!
OOOOOH!!!

I GOT IT!
This is actually a secret super buff for Cyrodiil!
As ZOS believe the stuck in combat bug is "vital" to ESO's gameplay, the stamina return will help us run from keep to keep faster! The cooldown aligns somewhat with casting Boundless! We'll be the fastest force around! OPOPOP! Get lost, old swift jewelry, here come the Maniac Marathon Mer!
\(>.<)/

You are acting like 200 unscaling stamina regen is going to make us olypmian athlets.

No, it'll take a bit more. Good food, for example. Need carbohydrates. Like sugar. Like... Moon Sugar from Elsweyr?!
You starting to see the conspiracy here?
(^_-)

Ogou · February 2019

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@MLGProPlayer , 11:48 - "...keep in mind, those are just assumptions, I haven't tested anything on the PTS yet..." - basically same way as whole this thread you've started, except you didn't declare that you're just making assumptions. ^^

And with all respect, not a go-to source of always correct assumptions, either, known to have jumped the gun before, like with the Murkmire doomsday predictions. And it's already seen that some points are clearly flawed in the video - like the note about "sustain like redguard" while forgetting how much more max stats redguard is going to get running blue food (now buffed by 20%) compared to khajiit running purple/gold - and yes, having more sustain, but way less max stats (which translates into damage directly). So no, not a definitive source.

And I'm not even commenting on "if you're playing mechanics properly, you don't need stamina". For one, I postpone until I see your leaderboard scores, for another, I'm glad that they balance races around regular players who aren't always perfect with mechanics.

Dude, give it up. I don't think they're listening anymore. I doubt any serious discussion is going to happen in this thread at this point.

DarkPicture · February 2019

So the 5th pts patch is only chance to get balanced races or they will come unbalanced to live servers... what a typical zenimax...

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2019

Because it’s a cash grabbed diguised as balance. They know that most serious end game players that min/max have multiple toons. For the most part for DPS they are altmer/Dunmer for magic and redguard for stamina. They want to force people to buy tokens and call it balance.

The 3 free ones are akin to a crack dealer giving the first one for free...

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

Browart wrote: »

So the 5th pts patch is only chance to get balanced races or they will come unbalanced to live servers... what a typical zenimax...

Hi again. You have yet to show anything that says things are unbalanced.

Please do.

(Except maybe orcs, waiting on test results on that one myself, rather than posting all sorts of crazy *** all over the place without evidence)

Ogou · February 2019

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Because it’s a cash grabbed diguised as balance. They know that most serious end game players that min/max have multiple toons. For the most part for DPS they are altmer/Dunmer for magic and redguard for stamina. They want to force people to buy tokens and call it balance.

The 3 free ones are akin to a crack dealer giving the first one for free...

But Altmer are still the best in endgame raid situations since you don't have to worry about sustain.

DarkPicture · February 2019

Ogou wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Because it’s a cash grabbed diguised as balance. They know that most serious end game players that min/max have multiple toons. For the most part for DPS they are altmer/Dunmer for magic and redguard for stamina. They want to force people to buy tokens and call it balance.

The 3 free ones are akin to a crack dealer giving the first one for free...

But Altmer are still the best in endgame raid situations since you don't have to worry about sustain.

They are not, u will see in progression guilds on magicka Bretons and Khajiits, there's no point to take altmer, they are useless. On stamina u will see Khajiits/Orcs, more sustain will let you on more option in builds.

As reguard where u dont need to do many heavy attacaks compare to other races. On nb/warden there is 0 heavy attacks with redguard race.

validifyedneb18_ESO · February 2019

Browart wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Because it’s a cash grabbed diguised as balance. They know that most serious end game players that min/max have multiple toons. For the most part for DPS they are altmer/Dunmer for magic and redguard for stamina. They want to force people to buy tokens and call it balance.

The 3 free ones are akin to a crack dealer giving the first one for free...

But Altmer are still the best in endgame raid situations since you don't have to worry about sustain.

They are not, u will see in progression guilds on magicka Bretons and Khajiits, there's no point to take altmer, they are useless. On stamina u will see Khajiits/Orcs, more sustain will let you on more option in builds.

As reguard where u dont need to do many heavy attacaks compare to other races. On nb/warden there is 0 heavy attacks with redguard race.

Yes they are. We have test data published on these very forums. Kindly go take a look at them.

You bring anecdotal evidence with your statements, when we have hard data published by the community that says the opposite.

Can I suggest that if you're really sure that you are right and the test data is wrong, that you create your own test data showing that Breton is able to get a higher average DPS than the test results, using the same build that the tests where done on.

Because right now you have nothing, and you're arguing against test evidence when you have nothing to show yourself.