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Can ZOS explain why Altmer is the lowest magicka DPS?
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Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Yeah altmer abusers suddenly all care about muh lore when an altmer pve nerf is in sight. Everyone suddenly cares about lore now that their overperforming race is getting rebalanced
.
I always cared for lore more than anything. 9% magicka recovery really didn't make a difference to me.
I can't speak for others. For me, lore is the main priority.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Which absolutely doesnt answer any point i actually made. You want lore, well good u can have ur 100-200 regen back but be prepared to get melted by every magicka player. There is ur lore. Have fun with it.2 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Which absolutely doesnt answer any point i actually made. You want lore, well good u can have ur 100-200 regen back but be prepared to get melted by every magicka player. There is ur lore. Have fun with it.
Don't forget a 1000 magicka more while you're add it.
I will embrace the magic weakness just like I embrace my Manhatten Make-Up Prime&Set spray.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Yeah altmer abusers suddenly all care about muh lore when an altmer pve nerf is in sight. Everyone suddenly cares about lore now that their overperforming race is getting rebalanced .
Altmer were never overperforming. Show me one parse from live where they parsed higher than Dunmer.
Show me one parse from PTS 1 where they hit higher than Breton and Khajiit.
I'll wait, but I know you won't reply because you're just a troll.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 9, 2019 9:26PM4 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am amazed about all the arguments that something should be a certain way because of lore.
Sure, lore is important, and should be taken into account, but first of all this is an MMO, not a single player RPG. Sometimes sacrifices must be made for the sake of balance and gameplay, even if it is not exactly according to the lore or previous games (which were single player).
Lore can never be an argument to create an imbalance.
So even if according to lore Altmer are the absolute masters of magicka, it cannot be like that in an mmo. There must always be something in other races (in other alliances) that could give them an advantage over Altmer (like bretons sustain).
In the end all 3 alliances should have a race for magicka users that performs on a relative same level, lore or not.
In this case, Altmer is the weakest magicka race (along with Dunmer). They don't need to be the strongest. A return to their levels from the PTS 1 patch would suffice. They'd still be the worst, but at least they'd be slightly more competitive, and their passives would be more lore-appropriate.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 9, 2019 9:32PM1 -
clocksstoppe✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »clocksstoppe wrote: »This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Yeah altmer abusers suddenly all care about muh lore when an altmer pve nerf is in sight. Everyone suddenly cares about lore now that their overperforming race is getting rebalanced .
Altmer were never overperforming. Show me one parse from live where they parsed higher than Dunmer.
Okay, so they don't parse higher than dunmer. With the new changes and the latest iteration of the passives, they parse higher than dunmer all the time and on par with breton. So technically they got buffed by your logic, even with the stamina return passive on a mag altmer on pts.
2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Which absolutely doesnt answer any point i actually made. You want lore, well good u can have ur 100-200 regen back but be prepared to get melted by every magicka player. There is ur lore. Have fun with it.
That's because you haven't made an actual, coherent point yet.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 9, 2019 9:42PM0 -
clocksstoppe✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Which absolutely doesnt answer any point i actually made. You want lore, well good u can have ur 100-200 regen back but be prepared to get melted by every magicka player. There is ur lore. Have fun with it.
That's because you haven't made an actual point yet. You just spew drivel.
The point is they would still be overperforming if they kept the magicka regen 3rd passive0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »clocksstoppe wrote: »This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Yeah altmer abusers suddenly all care about muh lore when an altmer pve nerf is in sight. Everyone suddenly cares about lore now that their overperforming race is getting rebalanced .
Altmer were never overperforming. Show me one parse from live where they parsed higher than Dunmer.
Okay, so they don't parse higher than dunmer. With the new changes and the latest iteration of the passives, they parse higher than dunmer all the time and on par with breton. So technically they got buffed by your logic, even with the stamina return passive on a mag altmer on pts.
Dunmer were nerfed. Altmer were nerfed (they parse the same as there is just a 12 spell damage difference between them now). Breton were buffed. Breton are currently the best magicka DD race between the 3. And that's fine, but that was still the case even before Altmer were nerfed this week.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 9, 2019 9:37PM0 -
clocksstoppe✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »clocksstoppe wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »clocksstoppe wrote: »This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Yeah altmer abusers suddenly all care about muh lore when an altmer pve nerf is in sight. Everyone suddenly cares about lore now that their overperforming race is getting rebalanced .
Altmer were never overperforming. Show me one parse from live where they parsed higher than Dunmer.
Okay, so they don't parse higher than dunmer. With the new changes and the latest iteration of the passives, they parse higher than dunmer all the time and on par with breton. So technically they got buffed by your logic, even with the stamina return passive on a mag altmer on pts.
Dunmer were nerfed. Altmer were nerfed (they parse the same as there is just a 12 spell damage difference between them now). Breton were buffed. Breton are currently the best magicka DD race between the 3. And that's fine, but that was still the case even before Altmer were nerfed this week.
They didn't get nerfed in every situation, they are now better in pvp.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »clocksstoppe wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »clocksstoppe wrote: »This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Yeah altmer abusers suddenly all care about muh lore when an altmer pve nerf is in sight. Everyone suddenly cares about lore now that their overperforming race is getting rebalanced .
Altmer were never overperforming. Show me one parse from live where they parsed higher than Dunmer.
Okay, so they don't parse higher than dunmer. With the new changes and the latest iteration of the passives, they parse higher than dunmer all the time and on par with breton. So technically they got buffed by your logic, even with the stamina return passive on a mag altmer on pts.
Dunmer were nerfed. Altmer were nerfed (they parse the same as there is just a 12 spell damage difference between them now). Breton were buffed. Breton are currently the best magicka DD race between the 3. And that's fine, but that was still the case even before Altmer were nerfed this week.
They didn't get nerfed in every situation, they are now better in pvp.
Racial passives need to benefit a race in PvE and PvP though, which the first version of the passive did.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 9, 2019 9:41PM0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Racial passives need to benefit a race in PvE and PvP though, which the first version of the passive did.
No, they don't (and they never did, see Stealth passives for Bosmer and Khajiit that are/were PvP-exclusive).
Btw why is this an issue NOW when it concerns Altmer players? Hasn't been an issue in the last years it seems but now when someone is affected by it it becomes problematic...Edited by Seraphayel on February 9, 2019 10:09PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »clocksstoppe wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »clocksstoppe wrote: »This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Yeah altmer abusers suddenly all care about muh lore when an altmer pve nerf is in sight. Everyone suddenly cares about lore now that their overperforming race is getting rebalanced .
Altmer were never overperforming. Show me one parse from live where they parsed higher than Dunmer.
Okay, so they don't parse higher than dunmer. With the new changes and the latest iteration of the passives, they parse higher than dunmer all the time and on par with breton. So technically they got buffed by your logic, even with the stamina return passive on a mag altmer on pts.
Dunmer were nerfed. Altmer were nerfed (they parse the same as there is just a 12 spell damage difference between them now). Breton were buffed. Breton are currently the best magicka DD race between the 3. And that's fine, but that was still the case even before Altmer were nerfed this week.
They didn't get nerfed in every situation, they are now better in pvp.
I disagree with that. Main ressource regen is always more important.
The previous passive was very beneficial for all magicka builds. The current one is not completely terrible, but not as good as the old one. So it's just okayish, not better.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos4 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Altmer and Orc sustain was taken with reasoning that no race should offer both, dmg and sustain.
Why Khajit regen passive is untouched then? ZoS logic as usual. Should be replaced with some PvP-only nonsense. The power of Elsewyr sales is the strongest force now.Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 9, 2019 10:14PM3 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Altmer and Orc sustain was taken with reasoning that no race should offer both, dmg and sustain.
Why Khajit regen passive is untouched then? ZoS logic as usual. Should be replaced with some PvP-only nonsense.
Likely because they have a small amount of max resources, and the crit damage is a less reliable boost to DPS than spell or weapon damage.1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Altmer and Orc sustain was taken with reasoning that no race should offer both, dmg and sustain.
Why Khajit regen passive is untouched then? ZoS logic as usual. Should be replaced with some PvP-only nonsense.
Likely because they have a small amount of max resources, and the crit damage is a less reliable boost to DPS than spell or weapon damage.
I don't have problems with Khajit racials. I have problem with ZoS unhonest reasoning behind Altmer and Orc changes. If dmg vs sustain was the case, Khajit would be rid of sustain passive as well.0 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Altmer and Orc sustain was taken with reasoning that no race should offer both, dmg and sustain.
Why Khajit regen passive is untouched then? ZoS logic as usual. Should be replaced with some PvP-only nonsense.
Likely because they have a small amount of max resources, and the crit damage is a less reliable boost to DPS than spell or weapon damage.
I don't have problems with Khajit racials. I have problem with ZoS unhonest reasoning behind Altmer and Orc changes. If dmg vs sustain was the case, Khajit would be rid of sustain passive as well.
Noting dishonest about it. The changes seem reasonable, and the Altmer change while odd makes perfect sense. Kajit can't be compared to Orc and Altmer in this case for reasons I've already stated.Edited by Ajax_22 on February 9, 2019 10:26PM1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Altmer and Orc sustain was taken with reasoning that no race should offer both, dmg and sustain.
Why Khajit regen passive is untouched then? ZoS logic as usual. Should be replaced with some PvP-only nonsense. The power of Elsewyr sales is the strongest force now.
Khajiit get 85 reg and 850 resources. That's a difference to 2000 resources and 258 spell damage, isn't it? Sure they have crit as well but it doesn't make them overpowered and crit is not always applying as something like max resources or spell/weapon damage. The missing sustain doesn't make Altmer underpowered. So what's the deal? They seem to be totally fine with differences barely noticeable.Edited by Seraphayel on February 9, 2019 11:08PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Racial passives need to benefit a race in PvE and PvP though, which the first version of the passive did.
No, they don't (and they never did, see Stealth passives for Bosmer and Khajiit that are/were PvP-exclusive).
Btw why is this an issue NOW when it concerns Altmer players? Hasn't been an issue in the last years it seems but now when someone is affected by it it becomes problematic...
It's an issue NOW because the whole point of this patch was to correct balance issues, not create new ones. ZOS wasn't balancing racial passives over the years, so they weren't taking feedback on them. They are now, hence why we're providing feedback now.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 9, 2019 11:40PM2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Which absolutely doesnt answer any point i actually made. You want lore, well good u can have ur 100-200 regen back but be prepared to get melted by every magicka player. There is ur lore. Have fun with it.
That's because you haven't made an actual point yet. You just spew drivel.
The point is they would still be overperforming if they kept the magicka regen 3rd passive
You haven't provided any evidence of them overperforming. I said I would wait for it. Still waiting.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 9, 2019 11:43PM1 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Altmer and Orc sustain was taken with reasoning that no race should offer both, dmg and sustain.
Why Khajit regen passive is untouched then? ZoS logic as usual. Should be replaced with some PvP-only nonsense.
Likely because they have a small amount of max resources, and the crit damage is a less reliable boost to DPS than spell or weapon damage.
I don't have problems with Khajit racials. I have problem with ZoS unhonest reasoning behind Altmer and Orc changes. If dmg vs sustain was the case, Khajit would be rid of sustain passive as well.
That doesn't really add up.
The 8% weapon/spell crit is equivalent to 258 weapon/spell damage as far as the "set bonus math" ZOS referred to in the original Racial Passives update.
Khajiit only get 825 max stam/magicka.
So if you want to "equalize" Khajiit and Altmer with that logic, you can either:
1. Remove the regen passives and max health from Khajiit but give them 1875 max stam/magicka (basically making them exactly like Dunmer except with 8% weapon/spell crit instead of 258 weapon/spell damage and a different flavor passive).
2. Give Altmer the old "Spell Recharge" passive back (restoring magicka) but reduce their max magicka from 2000 to 1000 or 875 or something along those lines6 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Racial passives need to benefit a race in PvE and PvP though, which the first version of the passive did.
No, they don't (and they never did, see Stealth passives for Bosmer and Khajiit that are/were PvP-exclusive).
Btw why is this an issue NOW when it concerns Altmer players? Hasn't been an issue in the last years it seems but now when someone is affected by it it becomes problematic...
It's an issue NOW because the whole point of this patch was to correct balance issues, not create new ones. ZOS wasn't balancing racial passives over the years, so they weren't taking feedback on them. They are now, hence why we're providing feedback now.
This is not a "patch", this is a PTS patch, where ZOS test stuff for the actual "Patch" that you speak of, where they actually "correct balance issues".
You dont just delete code because it doesn't work, for example. You dont throw a sauce out because it doesn't have enough seasoning. This is basically what you're telling ZOS to do. You dont like it, so you want them to revert everything or otherwise completely change what they're trying to acheive half way through them trying to achieve it.
Have you actually tested this yet? Can you post a CMX of you hitting 40-50k dps? Im honestly starting to doubt your ability to do top DPS. You clearly dont like PVP because you hate this change, and you have said many things that indicate you really dont understand a lot of things about PVE.
Prove that you're worth listening to.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade3 -
satanio✭✭✭✭
Alright.LiquidPony wrote: »
That doesn't really add up.
The 8% weapon/spell crit is equivalent to 258 weapon/spell damage as far as the "set bonus math" ZOS referred to in the original Racial Passives update.
And health. Makes it 2475 resources, thats more or equal to 2000 of one resource.LiquidPony wrote: »Khajiit only get 825 max stam/magicka.
HP is valuable in PvE, don't forget that.
So, It breaks down to Khajiits Robustness vs Altmers Spell Recharge:
42mag/s, 42stam/s, 50hp/s VS. 95 of whichever is lower/sLiquidPony wrote: »So if you want to "equalize" Khajiit and Altmer with that logic, you can either:
1. Remove one of the resource recovery from Khajiit.
2. Or cut them in some ratio.
3. Do something else for Altmers instead of resources return (flat pen, low percentage of spell crit, chance to apply status effect).
0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Which absolutely doesnt answer any point i actually made. You want lore, well good u can have ur 100-200 regen back but be prepared to get melted by every magicka player. There is ur lore. Have fun with it.
Don't forget a 1000 magicka more while you're add it.
I will embrace the magic weakness just like I embrace my Manhatten Make-Up Prime&Set spray.
And while you are at it don't forget bretons. Have fun when you tickle them.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »This thread is officially a nerf breton thread now. Lmao. Got to do what you got to do i guess.
It is not. It's just that Bretons are pictured as the greatest magicka master race from a lore perspective, while this was never the case. Since Altmer is now a hybrid race, Khajiit the best mages and Bretons the best sustain class; we can as well stop using lore as an excuse. Lore is pretty much lost at this point.
Sry my bad. This is now officially a "nerf Breton cause they don't fit the lore" thread.
Stop playing stupid. You are not stupid.
I don't want any race to be nerfed. It's for people who bring forth lore as an argument for Bretons. While the truth is, that Bretons are not representing this at the moment. Lore is clearly not valued anymore, so I think all further suggestions from our end are for nothing.
Altmer is a hybrid race now and that's how it's going to be.
I'm not playing stupid. It is what it is. This thread started as altmer useless in end game content and not balanced. When that argument was thrown out of the window its all about solo. Now it's about bretons don't fit the lore and how they shouldn't be as powerful as altmer. Suddenly everyone want balance around the lore, lmao. Of course that is as long as it favors altmer.
Well, there was a wide spectrum of arguments made, that can't be denied.
But wasn't lore always the main point ? This argument is valid, true and my main concern anyway.
Since beta this is literally the first time that ive seen lore coming up as the main argument for balance instead of you know, the actual gameplay. Literally ive never ever seen something being balanced in game and everyone and their mother whining about why it has to change because in their version of lore its not good. But if you wanna go ahead and balance around lore, be sure to involve all of it and not whatever suits you. Im not much of a lore guy, but i do remember altmer being vulnerable to elemental dmg. I also seem to remember bretons being very resistant to magic. Like actually very resistant, not some spell res buff that everyone can match with ease by putting on a couple of pieces of gear. They did also have sustain through absorb so remember to put that too on their passives. But we both that if something like that was introduced ud find some other argument to make about why its not balanced.
If listened to or not, it is always good to bring up lore arguments. Elder Scrolls has a rich lore and ESO claims to try to follow it. Even if it's ignored in the end, I will never stop bringing it up.
Which absolutely doesnt answer any point i actually made. You want lore, well good u can have ur 100-200 regen back but be prepared to get melted by every magicka player. There is ur lore. Have fun with it.
That's because you haven't made an actual, coherent point yet.
I did made a very good point. It's there, you can literally read it. You just conveniently ignored it because its not in agreement with yours which is what you've been doing the entire time just so you can repeat every dumb argument you can possibly think of.
Like I said in a previous post. I don't like Stam on altmer anymore than you do. But I'm not just gonna sit here and argue how it's useless (when facts prove the opposite) nor will I bring up lore with the sole intention of nerfing every other race.
If you want lore great, have ur regen back but now u will be permanently susceptible to elemental dmg. Have fun getting one shotted.Edited by pieratsos on February 10, 2019 9:43AM3 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This, add the new CP system who make higher resources more important than currently who was also stated in the patch notes for Khajiit.LiquidPony wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Altmer and Orc sustain was taken with reasoning that no race should offer both, dmg and sustain.
Why Khajit regen passive is untouched then? ZoS logic as usual. Should be replaced with some PvP-only nonsense.
Likely because they have a small amount of max resources, and the crit damage is a less reliable boost to DPS than spell or weapon damage.
I don't have problems with Khajit racials. I have problem with ZoS unhonest reasoning behind Altmer and Orc changes. If dmg vs sustain was the case, Khajit would be rid of sustain passive as well.
That doesn't really add up.
The 8% weapon/spell crit is equivalent to 258 weapon/spell damage as far as the "set bonus math" ZOS referred to in the original Racial Passives update.
Khajiit only get 825 max stam/magicka.
So if you want to "equalize" Khajiit and Altmer with that logic, you can either:
1. Remove the regen passives and max health from Khajiit but give them 1875 max stam/magicka (basically making them exactly like Dunmer except with 8% weapon/spell crit instead of 258 weapon/spell damage and a different flavor passive).
2. Give Altmer the old "Spell Recharge" passive back (restoring magicka) but reduce their max magicka from 2000 to 1000 or 875 or something along those lines
Some people did an simulated test on magic and stamina NB, using green food to give more magic or stamina for the CP effect, magic builds was idiotic close with Altmer on top, granted error margin in parses is probably larger than difference.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Alright.LiquidPony wrote: »
That doesn't really add up.
The 8% weapon/spell crit is equivalent to 258 weapon/spell damage as far as the "set bonus math" ZOS referred to in the original Racial Passives update.
And health. Makes it 2475 resources, thats more or equal to 2000 of one resource.LiquidPony wrote: »Khajiit only get 825 max stam/magicka.
HP is valuable in PvE, don't forget that.
So, It breaks down to Khajiits Robustness vs Altmers Spell Recharge:
42mag/s, 42stam/s, 50hp/s VS. 95 of whichever is lower/sLiquidPony wrote: »So if you want to "equalize" Khajiit and Altmer with that logic, you can either:
1. Remove one of the resource recovery from Khajiit.
2. Or cut them in some ratio.
3. Do something else for Altmers instead of resources return (flat pen, low percentage of spell crit, chance to apply status effect).
Health is only marginally useful in PvE, and that's really relative to player skill. In the "meta" sense there's largely no difference between a build with 16k health and one with 17k health. And Spell Recharge is 107.5 per second now, not 95.
But sure, give Altmer 825 max health and call it square. I'm sure that will mollify the Altmer salt brigade. It's actually a pretty fair balancing suggestion, it lets them run Witchmother's/Clockwork food and have more-or-less the same max health as they would with blue food, which is beneficial for the progression-type player but isn't going to move the needle in terms of how many people perceive "balance" (i.e., what build hits the biggest numbers according to Liko or LZH or whatever other top players post parses).
What's the point of your suggestions for Khajiit changes? Khajiit is a hybrid race, effective as either a stam DPS or a magicka DPS but apparently fairly well balanced in both regards, so why do you want to cut their already very low recovery passives when they already have lower max stat passives than every other DPS-oriented race in the game? Please go back and read the "Upcoming Racial Balance Changes" post from Gilliam and keep in mind that *hybrid* races will have slightly higher total stat bonuses by virtue of being hybrid races.
And I don't even know what you're thinking with the third suggestion for Altmer. You want to give the race with the most spell damage *and* the most max magicka an additional DPS-related bonus like pen, crit, or status effects? In what circumstance would you ever choose Dunmer or Khajiit for a magicka DPS character if you did that? It doesn't make any sense.Edited by LiquidPony on February 10, 2019 9:48AM5 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »
Alright.LiquidPony wrote: »
That doesn't really add up.
The 8% weapon/spell crit is equivalent to 258 weapon/spell damage as far as the "set bonus math" ZOS referred to in the original Racial Passives update.
And health. Makes it 2475 resources, thats more or equal to 2000 of one resource.LiquidPony wrote: »Khajiit only get 825 max stam/magicka.
HP is valuable in PvE, don't forget that.
So, It breaks down to Khajiits Robustness vs Altmers Spell Recharge:
42mag/s, 42stam/s, 50hp/s VS. 95 of whichever is lower/sLiquidPony wrote: »So if you want to "equalize" Khajiit and Altmer with that logic, you can either:
1. Remove one of the resource recovery from Khajiit.
2. Or cut them in some ratio.
3. Do something else for Altmers instead of resources return (flat pen, low percentage of spell crit, chance to apply status effect).
Health is only marginally useful in PvE, and that's really relative to player skill. In the "meta" sense there's largely no difference between a build with 16k health and one with 17k health. And Spell Recharge is 107.5 per second now, not 95.
But sure, give Altmer 825 max health and call it square. I'm sure that will mollify the Altmer salt brigade. It's actually a pretty fair balancing suggestion, it lets them run Witchmother's/Clockwork food and have more-or-less the same max health as they would with blue food, which is beneficial for the progression-type player but isn't going to move the needle in terms of how many people perceive "balance" (i.e., what build hits the biggest numbers according to Liko or LZH or whatever other top players post parses).
What's the point of your suggestions for Khajiit changes? Khajiit is a hybrid race, effective as either a stam DPS or a magicka DPS but apparently fairly well balanced in both regards, so why do you want to cut their already very low recovery passives when they already have lower max stat passives than every other DPS-oriented race in the game? Please go back and read the "Upcoming Racial Balance Changes" post from Gilliam and keep in mind that *hybrid* races will have slightly higher total stat bonuses by virtue of being hybrid races.
And I don't even know what you're thinking with the third suggestion for Altmer. You want to give the race with the most spell damage *and* the most max magicka an additional DPS-related bonus like pen, crit, or status effects? In what circumstance would you ever choose Dunmer or Khajiit for a magicka DPS character if you did that? It doesn't make any sense.
What's the point of playing Altmer if they offer nothing over Khajiit and Dunmer? If Khajiit and Dunmer can give you top magicka AND top stamina DPS, why would you pick Altmer who can only give you top magicka DPS?
Hybrid classes aren't supposed to be the best at both roles. They're supposed to be good at both.
Currently, Altmer provides nothing of value over those other two. Their DPS is virtually identical, while they bring nothing else to the table.
Breton provide the same DPS, but they are at least more versatile due to their sustain. Breton does not need to maintain a perfect rotation as they can afford a few mistimed casts in the heat of a fight (Altmer need to be perfect or they have to heavy attack to restore magicka).
There is literally no reason to play Altmer over the other races.
A +825 health boost would actually be a nice buff and give them something unique.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 10, 2019 10:22AM2 -
satanio✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »What's the point of your suggestions for Khajiit changes? Khajiit is a hybrid race, effective as either a stam DPS or a magicka DPS but apparently fairly well balanced in both regards, so why do you want to cut their already very low recovery passives when they already have lower max stat passives than every other DPS-oriented race in the game?
Have you noticed that Altmers new Spell Recharge is built towards PvP, some strange hybrids or tanks? Will altmers be as good as other races in these roles?
You're forgetting that stat recovery bonuses are affected by many multipliers (passives from armour skill lines, CP and more) and Spell Recharge on the other hand won't be multiplied by anything.
Sorry, but this whole idea of 6,5 item set is bullcrap since we don't know how exactly they "mark" these stat bonuses. As stated previously, is 100 magicka recovery the same as "gain 250 magicka every 5 second if {condition}" ?LiquidPony wrote: »Please go back and read the "Upcoming Racial Balance Changes" post from Gilliam and keep in mind that *hybrid* races will have slightly higher total stat bonuses by virtue of being hybrid races.LiquidPony wrote: »And I don't even know what you're thinking with the third suggestion for Altmer. You want to give the race with the most spell damage *and* the most max magicka an additional DPS-related bonus like pen, crit, or status effects? In what circumstance would you ever choose Dunmer or Khajiit for a magicka DPS character if you did that? It doesn't make any sense.
You think that 1% crit, 20% inc chance to apply status effect or 1k flat pen would break the world?
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Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
A +825 health boost would actually be a nice buff and give them something unique.LiquidPony wrote: »
Alright.LiquidPony wrote: »
That doesn't really add up.
The 8% weapon/spell crit is equivalent to 258 weapon/spell damage as far as the "set bonus math" ZOS referred to in the original Racial Passives update.
And health. Makes it 2475 resources, thats more or equal to 2000 of one resource.LiquidPony wrote: »Khajiit only get 825 max stam/magicka.
HP is valuable in PvE, don't forget that.
So, It breaks down to Khajiits Robustness vs Altmers Spell Recharge:
42mag/s, 42stam/s, 50hp/s VS. 95 of whichever is lower/sLiquidPony wrote: »So if you want to "equalize" Khajiit and Altmer with that logic, you can either:
1. Remove one of the resource recovery from Khajiit.
2. Or cut them in some ratio.
3. Do something else for Altmers instead of resources return (flat pen, low percentage of spell crit, chance to apply status effect).
Health is only marginally useful in PvE, and that's really relative to player skill. In the "meta" sense there's largely no difference between a build with 16k health and one with 17k health. And Spell Recharge is 107.5 per second now, not 95.
But sure, give Altmer 825 max health and call it square. I'm sure that will mollify the Altmer salt brigade. It's actually a pretty fair balancing suggestion, it lets them run Witchmother's/Clockwork food and have more-or-less the same max health as they would with blue food, which is beneficial for the progression-type player but isn't going to move the needle in terms of how many people perceive "balance" (i.e., what build hits the biggest numbers according to Liko or LZH or whatever other top players post parses).
What's the point of your suggestions for Khajiit changes? Khajiit is a hybrid race, effective as either a stam DPS or a magicka DPS but apparently fairly well balanced in both regards, so why do you want to cut their already very low recovery passives when they already have lower max stat passives than every other DPS-oriented race in the game? Please go back and read the "Upcoming Racial Balance Changes" post from Gilliam and keep in mind that *hybrid* races will have slightly higher total stat bonuses by virtue of being hybrid races.
And I don't even know what you're thinking with the third suggestion for Altmer. You want to give the race with the most spell damage *and* the most max magicka an additional DPS-related bonus like pen, crit, or status effects? In what circumstance would you ever choose Dunmer or Khajiit for a magicka DPS character if you did that? It doesn't make any sense.LiquidPony wrote: »What's the point of your suggestions for Khajiit changes? Khajiit is a hybrid race, effective as either a stam DPS or a magicka DPS but apparently fairly well balanced in both regards, so why do you want to cut their already very low recovery passives when they already have lower max stat passives than every other DPS-oriented race in the game?
Have you noticed that Altmers new Spell Recharge is built towards PvP, some strange hybrids or tanks? Will altmers be as good as other races in these roles?
You're forgetting that stat recovery bonuses are affected by many multipliers (passives from armour skill lines, CP and more) and Spell Recharge on the other hand won't be multiplied by anything.
Sorry, but this whole idea of 6,5 item set is bullcrap since we don't know how exactly they "mark" these stat bonuses. As stated previously, is 100 magicka recovery the same as "gain 250 magicka every 5 second if {condition}" ?LiquidPony wrote: »Please go back and read the "Upcoming Racial Balance Changes" post from Gilliam and keep in mind that *hybrid* races will have slightly higher total stat bonuses by virtue of being hybrid races.LiquidPony wrote: »And I don't even know what you're thinking with the third suggestion for Altmer. You want to give the race with the most spell damage *and* the most max magicka an additional DPS-related bonus like pen, crit, or status effects? In what circumstance would you ever choose Dunmer or Khajiit for a magicka DPS character if you did that? It doesn't make any sense.
You think that 1% crit, 20% inc chance to apply status effect or 1k flat pen would break the world?
Not even saying that most CPs are overloaded anyways. There are not many CPs left where we could effectively add points freed from Spell Erosion if we got Flat pen bonus. So minimal, if any dps increase here.0
