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Adventurer Pack (any race any alliance) needs to be made free or DEEPLY discounted
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Diminish✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sylvermynx wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Today's change is PTS only?
Yep, but it's looking like they have their sights set on these changes. Testing showed that Altmer were only slightly behind Breton and Khajiit before today. So they NERFED them to ensure they are no longer competitive. It's obvious they want Altmer and Dunmer out of the meta.
An entertaining stat to be made public is, how many characters are being actively played that are Altmer or Dunmer compared to the other races?
... I bet it is a large volume of the player base which results in more race changes needing to take place, and I guarantee that many people have more than 3 which will be covered by the free race change tokens. This entire debacle is nothing more than a cash grab. It's shameful to even think a company would stoop so damn low, especially since those mostly affected are long time players that have been supporting the game over the years. Of course this is all speculation on my part, but based on their actions of both the past and present, it is very hard not to speculate this is the driving force behind these changes.
Well, I can only speak for myself: I have 3 dunmer and an altmer on two accounts. Of course, I'm not done making toons on the second account....
And I won't be worrying about the nerfs when I do make others. I make toons who have lives, backstories, and reasons for adventuring. I don't EVER EVER chase meta.
Lots of people play games to compete. I can say with upmost certainty that if there was not a competitive angle to gaming, I would be doing something more fulfilling with my time. I could care less about back story, or pretending I'm some fictional man cat in a world of orcs, elves, etc. ***, I didn't read a SINGLE piece of dialog from any quest giver in this entire game... and I have thousands of hours logged. I want challenging, rewarding content, not some artificially inflated difficulty due to constant nerfs; especially ones that require me to dump tons MORE money into the game I am already supporting just to make those characters that logged those thousands of hours even remotely viable again.
So now what? I buy race change tokens for all my characters? I buy additional character slots and re-roll new characters to accommodate *** changes just so I can play at the same level I am this patch? I create a new PSN account, and re-roll new characters? Something has to give, and I will tell you first hand that if it isn't a rework of these upcoming changes, that thing that will give is me logging in to play daily. Me subscribing. Me purchasing chapters. Me purchasing DLC. I own 2 physical copies of the base game, a physical copy of Morrowind, and all the DLC on 3 accounts. I've played for years, but they want to cater to new players, and milk long time supporters. Guess what? I have a free guild bank due to new players. They played until around level 25 and haven't logged in for years.2 -
richo262✭✭✭✭✭
✭If they ever made any race free, they would need to send some crates to existing owners to thank them for their support.
The only reason why I'd support any-race going free is because they scrapped the idea of Alliance faction being character bound, but instead made it so that every season you can choose your faction account wide. To prevent spies / traitors.
It would mean any newly created character would start with their previous starting point. So Dunmer / Nord / Argonian start as EP, Breton / Orc / Redguard start as DC etc, but they all are bound to the chosen faction for the season. When the season is over they become 'factionless' until a new one is chosen upon entering either IC or Cyro.0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Eh.... I don't have a competitive bone in my 71 year old body. If competition is your thing.... baseball, football, basketball.... or even soccer, bowling, lacrosse, tennis, golf, bocce....
Yeah. I'm pretty jaded by now.4 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You only have yourselves to blame for getting so cozy with the current meta. Finally ZOS swung the nerf bat in your direction and now youre raging like any of these threads is going to change whats coming.
You squeezed more race change tokens out of them, they wont be budging any farther. Lets not pretend like all of you wont be running Breton/Khajiit in a few months because for all the bluster now, youre suckers for that sweet sweet e-peen measuring all of you min/maxers are notorious for.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax6 -
Na0cho✭✭✭All race any alliance should be folded into base game. Should have been done for one Tamriel. Also imperial as well.
I have bought it myself so this isn’t in self interest.
Sometimes I wanna be a kitty or lizard or Dunmer.
I’d hate to have to be in aldummy dominion or the ebonheart potato though.3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What min-maxer worth their salt does NOT have the ARAA pack already? This isn't the first time we've had major race changes.
Altmer/Dunmer have been top magicka DPS since day 1. This is the first time in 5 years they have been knocked out of the meta.Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 5, 2019 4:56AM0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Lots of people play games to compete. I can say with upmost certainty that if there was not a competitive angle to gaming, I would be doing something more fulfilling with my time. I could care less about back story, or pretending I'm some fictional man cat in a world of orcs, elves, etc. ***, I didn't read a SINGLE piece of dialog from any quest giver in this entire game... and I have thousands of hours logged. I want challenging, rewarding content, not some artificially inflated difficulty due to constant nerfs; especially ones that require me to dump tons MORE money into the game I am already supporting just to make those characters that logged those thousands of hours even remotely viable again.
Not really something to brag about.
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Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorry but are you for real?
Crying for more race change tokens: you got them.
Crying for name change tokens: you got them.
Now you want a 5 year old fluff bonus "deeply discounted" or at best for free on top of that?
I think some players are too concerned about this game, harming themselves with their obsession about tiny changes or things like this.
Every faction has still a "BiS" race for Magicka and Stamina. If any of you really thinks a DPS difference of 500 DPS matters, I dare you to prove that you would ever be capable of reaching those numbers to begin with.Edited by Seraphayel on February 5, 2019 7:15AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -8 -
BrokenString✭✭✭Lots of people play games to compete. I can say with upmost certainty that if there was not a competitive angle to gaming, I would be doing something more fulfilling with my time. I could care less about back story, or pretending I'm some fictional man cat in a world of orcs, elves, etc. ***, I didn't read a SINGLE piece of dialog from any quest giver in this entire game... and I have thousands of hours logged. I want challenging, rewarding content, not some artificially inflated difficulty due to constant nerfs; especially ones that require me to dump tons MORE money into the game I am already supporting just to make those characters that logged those thousands of hours even remotely viable again.
So now what? I buy race change tokens for all my characters? I buy additional character slots and re-roll new characters to accommodate *** changes just so I can play at the same level I am this patch? I create a new PSN account, and re-roll new characters? Something has to give, and I will tell you first hand that if it isn't a rework of these upcoming changes, that thing that will give is me logging in to play daily. Me subscribing. Me purchasing chapters. Me purchasing DLC. I own 2 physical copies of the base game, a physical copy of Morrowind, and all the DLC on 3 accounts. I've played for years, but they want to cater to new players, and milk long time supporters. Guess what? I have a free guild bank due to new players. They played until around level 25 and haven't logged in for years.
Ladies and gentlemen, a person who doesn't know what an RPG is.
That is all.6 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrokenString wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »Well, I can only speak for myself: I have 3 dunmer and an altmer on two accounts. Of course, I'm not done making toons on the second account....
And I won't be worrying about the nerfs when I do make others. I make toons who have lives, backstories, and reasons for adventuring. I don't EVER EVER chase meta.
This.
People often forget what RPG means, they play this like it was CS or FIFA. It's not even an E-sport ffs
Ah, so it means race playing game?0 -
Monsieur✭✭✭This isn’t about the meta, this is about people being forced into changing their characters race with limited options because ZOS changed the way they want you to play their game.
If someone has invested thousands of hours into their main Magicka dunmer who’s playstyle has now changed dramatically is unhappy, they’re only limited to change between Nord and Argonian without stumping up the cash?
Stop trying to make this about the player and take it for what it is; either an oversight by ZOS, or a cash grab again.
Some official clarity on this would be nice.
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Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This isn’t about the meta, this is about people being forced into changing their characters race with limited options because ZOS changed the way they want you to play their game.
But they didn't!
Every race that was great in Magicka/Stamina is still great in Magicka/Stamina after the changes. There barely changes anything except we get two versatile races (Khajiit and Dunmer), overperformers are brought down a little (Altmer) and underperformers (Argonian, Imperial) were buffed again.
All races are closer together with a much smaller gap between them.
If your race now is great at Magicka/Stamina it will still be great at Magicka/Stamina after the changes. No race becomes useless or (much) worse in their former "top performing categories".
It's 99% false player perception and 1% of ZOS bad communication.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -6 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »So ZOS, cut the *** crap. It's obvious you are doing this on purpose. The Adventurer Pack better be *** deeply discounted (like 75% off) when this patch goes live, if not outright free.
About time some of you started working this out. When it happens, a lot of you cry "Oh, Zos is incompetent". Really? You think they're mathematically inept? How amusing. I guarantee you they have plenty of analysis tools where they plug in number changes to see what happens.
The only reason they "need" to balance with a sledgehammer in what is now a mature game is to give you all something to chase. And the best part is, the changes, in percentage terms, are actually minimal, and regardless of this, you all take the bait, and keep chasing the meta, despite the fact that most of you will never even feel the changes, because you're not the 1%ers.
Need to sell the cat expansion
Zos: Makes cats the best at every. Single. Thing.menathradiel wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »After reviewing everyone’s feedback and evaluating the total number of high-level characters from active ESO accounts, we’ve decided to increase the amount of free Race Change Tokens granted to all players to 3 Tokens, in addition to granting 3 Name Change Tokens, to assist with the upcoming Racial balance changes in Update 21. The Tokens will be automatically added to your account during the launch maintenance window for each respective platform.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456728/update-on-race-change-tokens
Players who don't have ARAA will be locked in to only being able to change to one of the other two races in their current faction - even if that race change is free. I think that was the OPs point.
what? i can't even change my race to a competitive race if i don't have some adventure pack?
@bardx86 correct. If you want to race change to a race that is not in your alliance then you must have the adventure pack/ARAA/Any Race Any Alliance upgrade.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom5 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »BrokenString wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
It's needed here because ZOS just nerfed a bunch of the top races and players need to witch to new races now. The new meta races are in different factions from the old meta races.
Ok, what's the big deal? Some minor percentages won't save people. If the player is bad, 5% more damage or health wont change the outcome of a fight. A play pvp mostly and even with bad class/race combination I beat people up left and right. If a player is unable to adapt to stat changes, he's bad. If a player is unable to change his playstyle, he's bad.
It seems to me that this forum is just a bunch of children who had the new toy in town and now are crying because it's not the newest anymore.
Changes are good, for bad or worse, it let the people working on the game to test out more stuff, to see where it went wrong and change next patch, quit crying everybody.
Also, GIT GUD
If you compete for leader board scores, you need optimal performance. You don't get additional score points for running a suboptimal race.
Leaderboard chasers are literally the smallest portion of the playerbase, what they deem is meta doesn't apply to the rest of the community which is probably 98% of players. I bet most people on these forums aren't in that 1% and couldn't parse 50k let alone 35k.MLGProPlayer wrote: »BrokenString wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »
It's needed here because ZOS just nerfed a bunch of the top races and players need to witch to new races now. The new meta races are in different factions from the old meta races.
Ok, what's the big deal? Some minor percentages won't save people. If the player is bad, 5% more damage or health wont change the outcome of a fight. A play pvp mostly and even with bad class/race combination I beat people up left and right. If a player is unable to adapt to stat changes, he's bad. If a player is unable to change his playstyle, he's bad.
It seems to me that this forum is just a bunch of children who had the new toy in town and now are crying because it's not the newest anymore.
Changes are good, for bad or worse, it let the people working on the game to test out more stuff, to see where it went wrong and change next patch, quit crying everybody.
Also, GIT GUD
If you compete for leader board scores, you need optimal performance. You don't get additional score points for running a suboptimal race.
The difference of 3k damage from a non optimal race to an optimal race won't be felt unless you are in that 1%.
I've played a Nord for the last 2 years, we haven't been good at anything, 3rd tank race, last in stamina damage, healer not applicable and I've had fun maybe you should try to do the same rather than worry about meta and BiS when I bet you are not even at that 1% level and if you are.. prove it to us, show us your parses.6 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »Leaderboard chasers are literally the smallest portion of the playerbase, what they deem is meta doesn't apply to the rest of the community which is probably 98% of players. I bet most people on these forums aren't in that 1% and couldn't parse 50k let alone 35k.
The difference of 3k damage from a non optimal race to an optimal race won't be felt unless you are in that 1%.
I've played a Nord for the last 2 years, we haven't been good at anything, 3rd tank race, last in stamina damage, healer not applicable and I've had fun maybe you should try to do the same rather than worry about meta and BiS when I bet you are not even at that 1% level and if you are.. prove it to us, show us your parses
Edited by mairwen85 on February 5, 2019 8:49AM1 -
Monsieur✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
I’m not going to argue this because it’s pointless, the extensive data is there if you want to read it, or not, that’s your choice.
But what I will argue is that you’re still missing the point, this isn’t about meta, this is about the core fundamentals of your characters racials changing after you’ve invested thousands of hours in it, and you’re then limited to the choice you can make to change it without having to purchase something extra from ZOS.
This shouldn’t be the case. Everybody should be free to use these tokens to change to whichever race they want to.
PS; I don’t have a vested interest in this, I have any race any alliance, I also have 3 off-meta racialled characters which are surprisingly going to be heavily buffed with this patch.
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Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But what I will argue is that you’re still missing the point, this isn’t about meta, this is about the core fundamentals of your characters racials changing after you’ve invested thousands of hours in it, and you’re then limited to the choice you can make to change it without having to purchase something extra from ZOS.
Tell me ONE race where the "core fundamentals" change.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »But what I will argue is that you’re still missing the point, this isn’t about meta, this is about the core fundamentals of your characters racials changing after you’ve invested thousands of hours in it, and you’re then limited to the choice you can make to change it without having to purchase something extra from ZOS.
Tell me ONE race where the "core fundamentals" change.
Dunmer minus fire affinity
I don't have ARAA; I don't want it -- I wont buy it. I don't think it's the motivator either; after the bait and switch complaints so publicly surrounding FO76 (among other things), I doubt ZOS would have the stones to pull such an underhanded stunt.
Also, meta or no, the actual testing has been pretty close. I'll wait for more conclusive data on the next iteration before I pass any further judgement.Edited by mairwen85 on February 5, 2019 8:57AM0 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »Today's change is PTS only?
Yep, but it's looking like they have their sights set on these changes. Testing showed that Altmer were only slightly behind Breton and Khajiit before today. So they NERFED them to ensure they are no longer competitive. It's obvious they want Altmer and Dunmer out of the meta.
An entertaining stat to be made public is, how many characters are being actively played that are Altmer or Dunmer compared to the other races?
... I bet it is a large volume of the player base which results in more race changes needing to take place, and I guarantee that many people have more than 3 which will be covered by the free race change tokens. This entire debacle is nothing more than a cash grab. It's shameful to even think a company would stoop so damn low, especially since those mostly affected are long time players that have been supporting the game over the years. Of course this is all speculation on my part, but based on their actions of both the past and present, it is very hard not to speculate this is the driving force behind these changes.
Well, I can only speak for myself: I have 3 dunmer and an altmer on two accounts. Of course, I'm not done making toons on the second account....
And I won't be worrying about the nerfs when I do make others. I make toons who have lives, backstories, and reasons for adventuring. I don't EVER EVER chase meta.
Lots of people play games to compete. I can say with upmost certainty that if there was not a competitive angle to gaming, I would be doing something more fulfilling with my time. I could care less about back story, or pretending I'm some fictional man cat in a world of orcs, elves, etc. ***, I didn't read a SINGLE piece of dialog from any quest giver in this entire game... and I have thousands of hours logged. I want challenging, rewarding content, not some artificially inflated difficulty due to constant nerfs; especially ones that require me to dump tons MORE money into the game I am already supporting just to make those characters that logged those thousands of hours even remotely viable again.
So now what? I buy race change tokens for all my characters? I buy additional character slots and re-roll new characters to accommodate *** changes just so I can play at the same level I am this patch? I create a new PSN account, and re-roll new characters? Something has to give, and I will tell you first hand that if it isn't a rework of these upcoming changes, that thing that will give is me logging in to play daily. Me subscribing. Me purchasing chapters. Me purchasing DLC. I own 2 physical copies of the base game, a physical copy of Morrowind, and all the DLC on 3 accounts. I've played for years, but they want to cater to new players, and milk long time supporters. Guess what? I have a free guild bank due to new players. They played until around level 25 and haven't logged in for years.
The game with thousands of huors of voiced questing...you chose THIS game to do what exactly.
This game is obviously not for you. Or you can buy race change tokens for all you characters because you wont be top on a dummy any more but 0.05%....oh the HORROR! RAGEQUIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Edited by MikaHR on February 5, 2019 8:56AM5 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »But what I will argue is that you’re still missing the point, this isn’t about meta, this is about the core fundamentals of your characters racials changing after you’ve invested thousands of hours in it, and you’re then limited to the choice you can make to change it without having to purchase something extra from ZOS.
Tell me ONE race where the "core fundamentals" change.
Bosmer stealth. But that is irrelevant in this specific thread because of someone was going to race change to Khajiit for the bonus they are in the same alliance.
I bring it up only because I’ve invested a lot of “emotional” currency in my characters and this is a change of their core fundamentals.
Otherwise, ignore that. Edit: I have ARAA and I won’t be changing my race. If they gave ARAA away for free I would not mind one bit.Edited by max_only on February 5, 2019 9:57AM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom0 -
Liww✭✭✭it always saddens me to see faction identity trivialized in mmo's, it's usually serving the high-end pve'rs demands.3
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MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Yup, its those "high end" PvEers that screw up most games...and that is ironic considering they are 0,01% of playerbase.Edited by MikaHR on February 5, 2019 10:20AM2
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mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭it always saddens me to see faction identity trivialized in mmo's, it's usually serving the high-end pve'rs demands.Yup, its those "high end" PvEers that screw up most games...and that is ironic considering they are 0,01% of playerbase.
So by the rationale of threads in this sub forum: PvPers ruin PvE -- but PvEers ruin the entire game?
Also, can someone define (without frothing at the mouth and spurting egregious and baseless claims with BS statistics loaded with logical fallacies) what exactly are
. Why is it suddenly en vogue to demonise them?"high end" PvEersEdited by mairwen85 on February 5, 2019 10:35AM4 -
MikaHR✭✭✭✭✭Just have to have a look at Wildstar, it is quite simple really.
And ZOS should have a look at Wildstar too, to remind themselves which type of playerbase they should staright ignore (even if they are always the loudest ones....but lead the games into their downfall if teh devs are dumb enough to listen to that uber small yet uber loud crowd)Edited by MikaHR on February 5, 2019 11:00AM3 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭can someone define (without frothing at the mouth and spurting egregious and baseless claims with BS statistics loaded with logical fallacies) what exactly are
. Why is it suddenly en vogue to demonise them?"high end" PvEers... Just have to have a look at Wildstar ...
Yawn... reduction to the absurd/extreme (logical fallacy);
ESO caters to casuals first and foremost. There is no basis for comparison. I'm sick and tired of every second post referencing WildStar; get another scapegoat or better argument to pitch... preferably one with substance.define (without frothing at the mouth and spurting egregious and baseless claims with BS statistics loaded with logical fallacies) what exactly are
."high end" PvEers... they are always the loudest ones...
You've been pretty loud in every thread since January 15.
I agree with you that these changes are minor for the wider playerbase -- but I can't find reason to vilify players who feel most affected by them. They are also playing the game their way. Be that some high end (whatever that means) way, or low brow... You can't just shout a person down because you have some bile stored up for players with more skill than yourself. It gets old, fast -- and distracts from whatever point you're trying to make. When every post is a crusade, there really is nothing of interest to take away from them. You don't have to campaign here.
Edited by mairwen85 on February 5, 2019 11:15AM2 -
Fischblut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I paid for it so this thing should never be given out for free
But it would be totally okay if they had discounts on it sometimes, like they do on many crown store items randomly. For example, I bought banker and merchant for full price both, but I didn't say a word when they were costing 2500 crowns each during Black Fredas... 
1
