Earthgore?

Jaxaxo · January 2019

ToRelax wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

A fix I was thinking of that would reward gameplay and still make it powerful would be to provide a lot of healing received for those inside of the proc. So it doesn't heal the group, but if it procs the healers get an added benefit. It makes good healers more valuable while also buffing the group and keeping the set useful.

If it's a must in some trials, that increased healing received should help for healers to keep the tanks up as well.

Thoughts?

That's actually an intresting idea. I certainly don't think it would be needed, but it's better than what we have now.

Like the idea too, instead of just being nobrainer this would need to be paired with few skills there to get more from it. @ZOS_GinaBruno ?

GeneralSezme · January 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

OMG this AGAIN?

It doesn't need a nerf. All you kill bill nightblades need to quit your bitching about it already. Just because someone can outheal your excessive amount of DD, doesn't make it overpowered. You just need to learn to adapt, and stop the QQ.

Nightblade takes more skill than an Earthgore user tho

So what? You push the same buttons and just cloak away.

All you have to do to proc earthgore is receive a critical hit, which activates the cp passive and procs earthgore, and the players you been fighting for 5 minutes get a cheat death for eating a predictable ult dump. There is no argument that Earth gore takes skill to use. Even top tier pve'ers agree that it is a crutch and that good healers use other monster helms.

Ozby · January 2019

enzoisadog wrote: »

wheres the earthgore nerf?

We don't want earthgore nerf in pve, its already been nerfed once and to be honest I've seen people in pvp kill healers wearing earthgore just fine.

Ozby · January 2019

danwtayl wrote: »

Earthgore does not need to be nerfed. It needs to be deleted. It makes bad players and groups mediocre, mediocre players good, and so on. It's such a large crutch, players will never need to learn how to actually survive without it.

Facing a large group of players using n number of this sets is one of the most frustrating experiences. To do everything right to win (multiple times) and still not kill the other players is not right. Proc sets should be additive to your damage/healing and not your primary source of it.

Problem is your only thinking of pvp, your not thinking of end game pve trials etc. Its not your fault or mine the problem is that PVE and PVP gear and skills are not seperated int his game so it was always going to be a fail. But please try to keep in mind people in this game don't just play PVP.

Ozby · January 2019

Vapirko wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

OMG this AGAIN?

It doesn't need a nerf. All you kill bill nightblades need to quit your bitching about it already. Just because someone can outheal your excessive amount of DD, doesn't make it overpowered. You just need to learn to adapt, and stop the QQ.

This is so grossly misinformed.

And to the PvErs I can’t say really, I don’t PvE that seriously. But people survived all the hardest PvE content without it. Also people are always saying how healers are barely needed anymore. Isn’t Earthgore a set that starts to lessen the need for healers in certain content.

Uh no that is not the case at all, especailly for the Vet endgame and hardmodes.

Ozby · January 2019

templesus wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

OMG this AGAIN?

It doesn't need a nerf. All you kill bill nightblades need to quit your bitching about it already. Just because someone can outheal your excessive amount of DD, doesn't make it overpowered. You just need to learn to adapt, and stop the QQ.

This is so grossly misinformed.

And to the PvErs I can’t say really, I don’t PvE that seriously. But people survived all the hardest PvE content without it. Also people are always saying how healers are barely needed anymore. Isn’t Earthgore a set that starts to lessen the need for healers in certain content.

Pretty much go 3 dps with a tank wearing earthgore and you can complete roughly 90% of 4 man content including DSA

And vBRP. You don’t even need a tank in DSA it’s 4 DPSable.

You can complete 100% of 4 man content with 3 dps and tank.

on normal sure.

enzoisadog · January 2019

Ozby wrote: »

enzoisadog wrote: »

wheres the earthgore nerf?

We don't want earthgore nerf in pve, its already been nerfed once and to be honest I've seen people in pvp kill healers wearing earthgore just fine.

Nerf it in pvp, I don't care about pve.

Feanor · January 2019

Ozby wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

OMG this AGAIN?

It doesn't need a nerf. All you kill bill nightblades need to quit your bitching about it already. Just because someone can outheal your excessive amount of DD, doesn't make it overpowered. You just need to learn to adapt, and stop the QQ.

This is so grossly misinformed.

And to the PvErs I can’t say really, I don’t PvE that seriously. But people survived all the hardest PvE content without it. Also people are always saying how healers are barely needed anymore. Isn’t Earthgore a set that starts to lessen the need for healers in certain content.

Uh no that is not the case at all, especailly for the Vet endgame and hardmodes.

I wonder how on Tamriel people were clearing hard content without a set that bails them out every 45 seconds...

Haashhtaag · January 2019

Ozby wrote: »

danwtayl wrote: »

Earthgore does not need to be nerfed. It needs to be deleted. It makes bad players and groups mediocre, mediocre players good, and so on. It's such a large crutch, players will never need to learn how to actually survive without it.

Facing a large group of players using n number of this sets is one of the most frustrating experiences. To do everything right to win (multiple times) and still not kill the other players is not right. Proc sets should be additive to your damage/healing and not your primary source of it.

Problem is your only thinking of pvp, your not thinking of end game pve trials etc. Its not your fault or mine the problem is that PVE and PVP gear and skills are not seperated int his game so it was always going to be a fail. But please try to keep in mind people in this game don't just play PVP.

Earthgore is not need in any end game content. It is a crutch. 90% of 4 man content can be completed without a healer. All you have to do is throw this over performing set on your tank and you’re good to go. This includes vBRP and vDSA.

Trial healers would get more effective healing running bogdan for their raids than earthgore.

This is why I believe that @ZOS_BrianWheeler should take a look at making this set not remove ground based ultimates, the heal should be tied to 1 person and not an AOE heal that does the work of a healer. I think reducing the effectiveness of this set will create a larger want for healers and not provide such a crutch in pvp.

Kuramas9tails · January 2019

Excelsus wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

It’s been nerfed already once, and it’s every 35 seconds. Give it a rest.

Found a zergling

Its been nerfed twice actually and its the only decent healing monster set for pve so let us keep this one, please? We already lost our proc sets to you guys don't take our healers down too.

Agree. ZOS really needs to separate sets with two different uses and explanation of what it does in PVE and PVP and stop nerfing it together.

FrankonPC · January 2019

Haashhtaag wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

danwtayl wrote: »

Earthgore does not need to be nerfed. It needs to be deleted. It makes bad players and groups mediocre, mediocre players good, and so on. It's such a large crutch, players will never need to learn how to actually survive without it.

Facing a large group of players using n number of this sets is one of the most frustrating experiences. To do everything right to win (multiple times) and still not kill the other players is not right. Proc sets should be additive to your damage/healing and not your primary source of it.

Problem is your only thinking of pvp, your not thinking of end game pve trials etc. Its not your fault or mine the problem is that PVE and PVP gear and skills are not seperated int his game so it was always going to be a fail. But please try to keep in mind people in this game don't just play PVP.

Earthgore is not need in any end game content. It is a crutch. 90% of 4 man content can be completed without a healer. All you have to do is throw this over performing set on your tank and you’re good to go. This includes vBRP and vDSA.

Trial healers would get more effective healing running bogdan for their raids than earthgore.

This is why I believe that @ZOS_BrianWheeler should take a look at making this set not remove ground based ultimates, the heal should be tied to 1 person and not an AOE heal that does the work of a healer. I think reducing the effectiveness of this set will create a larger want for healers and not provide such a crutch in pvp.

I don't know man. like, I get what you're saying, but I'd rather just ignore mechanics and steam roll everything with my strong monster set...

TequilaFire · January 2019

Gee I wonder what DPS wears for monster sets?

FrankonPC · January 2019

Probably an aoe damage set that executes ads at low health with a 35 second cooldown. And i know you're gonna say that sounds OP, but you're going to love it on VMOL hard mode when you're dealing with the hulks and ads.

TequilaFire · January 2019

I was just hinting at what exists as a "crutch" for healing also exists in DPS "crutch" sets.

Teeba_Shei · January 2019

The game plays itself too much with earthgore stacking zergs in cyrodiil. This set carries HARD. Nerf the healing on it, don't let multiple earthgores stack, and change the ground effect removal to give Major Aegis for 10 seconds, reducing your damage taken from Dungeons and Trials Monsters by 15%. Also a possibility would be for the player to receive a debuff after being healed by it so they couldn't be healed by another for 35 seconds.

TequilaFire · January 2019

Sure and change caltrops to player only damage.

Haashhtaag · January 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

Sure and change caltrops to player only damage.

That would be a good change. After all it is a pvp skill.

FrankonPC · January 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

I was just hinting at what exists as a "crutch" for healing also exists in DPS "crutch" sets.

I knew what you were saying, I just disagree that there are dps monster sets that can carry a group as much as earthgore can, and that's the point. There's nothing wrong with having strong sets that help a build or help the group, but this set literally makes your character unkillable in a lot of situations in pve and pvp(for its duration). The reason I brought up a "dps" version of this set is because if that actually existed it would get shouted off of the forums through 10,000 forum posts complaining about how op it is...and they'd be absolutely right.

In my opinion, the game needs to start looking at survival sets in the same way they have looked at dps sets. They added reaction times to sets like selenes and tremorscale, they need to look at how they can introduce some counterplay to a set like earthgore. Whether it's reduce the healing done, increase the cool down, or something else, it currently works like an aoe healing ultimate. That function is stronger than every other healing monster set in the game.

Currently what it does in pvp is reset a fight, and fight resets are killers for the outnumbered group that have to defend themselves against a group that has the advantage of having more damage/healing/ultimates etc. The other issue with fight resets is that it bogs down the servers, hurting server performance.

The bigger group can and will win more often than not(because they're bigger), but there are plenty of times this saves players that wouldn't have been saved with any other monster set. The game has made it clear through the changes to AP gains for large groups(not providing more AP for bigger groups just because), and AOE caps that they are making steps to not just benefit large groups. A change to earthgore would be in line with these other changes that have already been implemented.

And of course, as a mostly PvPer, I would just prefer for there to be a disconnect with how monster sets function in PVE and PVP, but I don't think that will happen any time soon.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · January 2019

chris211 wrote: »

delete snipe, earthgore and timestop

Delete pvp

bagon · January 2019

I actually wish these pve players could experience earthgore in pvp, without their bias. They would realise that earthgore has literally been destroying pvp since its been released.

exeeter702 · January 2019

FrankonPC wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I was just hinting at what exists as a "crutch" for healing also exists in DPS "crutch" sets.

I knew what you were saying, I just disagree that there are dps monster sets that can carry a group as much as earthgore can, and that's the point. There's nothing wrong with having strong sets that help a build or help the group, but this set literally makes your character unkillable in a lot of situations in pve and pvp(for its duration). The reason I brought up a "dps" version of this set is because if that actually existed it would get shouted off of the forums through 10,000 forum posts complaining about how op it is...and they'd be absolutely right.

In my opinion, the game needs to start looking at survival sets in the same way they have looked at dps sets. They added reaction times to sets like selenes and tremorscale, they need to look at how they can introduce some counterplay to a set like earthgore. Whether it's reduce the healing done, increase the cool down, or something else, it currently works like an aoe healing ultimate. That function is stronger than every other healing monster set in the game.

Currently what it does in pvp is reset a fight, and fight resets are killers for the outnumbered group that have to defend themselves against a group that has the advantage of having more damage/healing/ultimates etc. The other issue with fight resets is that it bogs down the servers, hurting server performance.

The bigger group can and will win more often than not(because they're bigger), but there are plenty of times this saves players that wouldn't have been saved with any other monster set. The game has made it clear through the changes to AP gains for large groups(not providing more AP for bigger groups just because), and AOE caps that they are making steps to not just benefit large groups. A change to earthgore would be in line with these other changes that have already been implemented.

And of course, as a mostly PvPer, I would just prefer for there to be a disconnect with how monster sets function in PVE and PVP, but I don't think that will happen any time soon.

Reducing the healing done or increasing the CD is not comparable to the nerfs to the various proc sets such as selenes. Introducing counterplay simply means that the result of the items effect is reactable by the recipient, ie seeing the telegraph and dodging accordingly.

Nerfing the potency or CD if earthgore wont acheive the same level of "counterplay". As has been mentioned before, the best option imo is to have the effect of earthgore become a massive healing received boost (independant from major and minor vit) for those standing in the rain by YOUR healing spells, wherein the counterplay becomes disabling or pressuring the healer whos earthgore triggers. And the healer has to actually make use and react to their own EG procs to benefit from it fully.

Just a bit of an anecdote here. The other day i got a salt infused hate whisper because my EG procced on a team mate that was being hammered on by 3 players. I noticed my EG triggered so i began spamming healthy offering on him, healing him for 10k a cast along with EG healing him. He survived and i had 7 stacks of offering oblivion dots on me, essentially i commited HARD to keeping him up and at any point in time of they 3 players had a brain cell they would have hard swapped to me who had 7x offering dot running and killed me in a flash. But instead they tunneled and one of them whispered me to remind me how trash i am and how op EG was since it healed that guy through 2 ults and 3 players worth of damage while completely oblivious to the 10k burst heals coming in along side it. People often dont see the other healing that goes on along side EG.

Still i think its a bit too strong, but it should not be nerfed into shear mediocrity like almost every other uninteresting healing monster set in the game. Chokethorn is wack, bogdan is wack and sentinel is wack. Shrug*

Varana · January 2019

bagon wrote: »

I actually wish these pve players could experience earthgore in pvp, without their bias. They would realise that earthgore has literally been destroying pvp since its been released.

It was released in August 2017.
So why the complaints if PvP, apparently, has been destroyed now? I mean, if Earthgore's singlehandedly destroying PvP (literally!) isn't done by now, it's doing a pretty poor job at it.

ToRelax · January 2019

exeeter702 wrote: »

FrankonPC wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I was just hinting at what exists as a "crutch" for healing also exists in DPS "crutch" sets.

I knew what you were saying, I just disagree that there are dps monster sets that can carry a group as much as earthgore can, and that's the point. There's nothing wrong with having strong sets that help a build or help the group, but this set literally makes your character unkillable in a lot of situations in pve and pvp(for its duration). The reason I brought up a "dps" version of this set is because if that actually existed it would get shouted off of the forums through 10,000 forum posts complaining about how op it is...and they'd be absolutely right.

In my opinion, the game needs to start looking at survival sets in the same way they have looked at dps sets. They added reaction times to sets like selenes and tremorscale, they need to look at how they can introduce some counterplay to a set like earthgore. Whether it's reduce the healing done, increase the cool down, or something else, it currently works like an aoe healing ultimate. That function is stronger than every other healing monster set in the game.

Currently what it does in pvp is reset a fight, and fight resets are killers for the outnumbered group that have to defend themselves against a group that has the advantage of having more damage/healing/ultimates etc. The other issue with fight resets is that it bogs down the servers, hurting server performance.

The bigger group can and will win more often than not(because they're bigger), but there are plenty of times this saves players that wouldn't have been saved with any other monster set. The game has made it clear through the changes to AP gains for large groups(not providing more AP for bigger groups just because), and AOE caps that they are making steps to not just benefit large groups. A change to earthgore would be in line with these other changes that have already been implemented.

And of course, as a mostly PvPer, I would just prefer for there to be a disconnect with how monster sets function in PVE and PVP, but I don't think that will happen any time soon.

Reducing the healing done or increasing the CD is not comparable to the nerfs to the various proc sets such as selenes. Introducing counterplay simply means that the result of the items effect is reactable by the recipient, ie seeing the telegraph and dodging accordingly.

Nerfing the potency or CD if earthgore wont acheive the same level of "counterplay". As has been mentioned before, the best option imo is to have the effect of earthgore become a massive healing received boost (independant from major and minor vit) for those standing in the rain by YOUR healing spells, wherein the counterplay becomes disabling or pressuring the healer whos earthgore triggers. And the healer has to actually make use and react to their own EG procs to benefit from it fully.

[...]

Still i think its a bit too strong, but it should not be nerfed into shear mediocrity like almost every other uninteresting healing monster set in the game. Chokethorn is wack, bogdan is wack and sentinel is wack. Shrug*

With the restriction to the user's healing, that actually sounds like it might be balanced quite well. I like it.

Haashhtaag · January 2019

Varana wrote: »

bagon wrote: »

I actually wish these pve players could experience earthgore in pvp, without their bias. They would realise that earthgore has literally been destroying pvp since its been released.

It was released in August 2017.
So why the complaints if PvP, apparently, has been destroyed now? I mean, if Earthgore's singlehandedly destroying PvP (literally!) isn't done by now, it's doing a pretty poor job at it.

Well one way it has is that it drags fights out that should not last as long as they do this causing more calculations which in the long term ruins server performance.

Ajax_22 · January 2019

It should be deleted. However I'd be okay with a 50% cooldown increase, 50% healing reduction, and remove the ability for it to remove negative effects. Also it should be able to be negated after it procs, and if it procs on someone inside a negate it triggers the cooldown, and doesn't proc.

Vapirko · January 2019

Sarousse wrote: »

I still can't believe that this set exists in game in its current state. So sad that devs do nothing.

I can't count how many situation we would have won fights in a 4v20+ situations where their whole group earthgore procs saved them.

And against large organized groups, you have one shot to win, not two. Earthgore just negates our chances.

That’s my biggest complaint with this set. It’s a Zerg saver. Nothing more. It saves unskilled blobs which we need less of, not more. They already have all the other advantages.

DisgracefulMind · January 2019

Give it a fat heal reduction in Cyrodiil, something. Earthgore is literally just zerg saver. It's infuriating in its current state, still. Since it already heals for an absurd amount in PvE, reducing the healing on it won't really affect it there.

Say no to Earthgore.

FrankonPC · January 2019

exeeter702 wrote: »

Reducing the healing done or increasing the CD is not comparable to the nerfs to the various proc sets such as selenes. Introducing counterplay simply means that the result of the items effect is reactable by the recipient, ie seeing the telegraph and dodging accordingly.

Nerfing the potency or CD if earthgore wont acheive the same level of "counterplay". As has been mentioned before, the best option imo is to have the effect of earthgore become a massive healing received boost (independant from major and minor vit) for those standing in the rain by YOUR healing spells, wherein the counterplay becomes disabling or pressuring the healer whos earthgore triggers. And the healer has to actually make use and react to their own EG procs to benefit from it fully.

[/quote]

I agree, I was the one that posted that idea in this thread

. I just don't think that change will come into place, so I would be ok with any sort of adjustment to make it a lot less attractive. Increasing the healing done for the wearer or the healing received for those in the aoe of the set makes a lot of sense, and it still makes the set powerful(for healers). It wouldn't be the airbag set that it currently is. I think this is the best way to adjust it without making it useless, but I guess we'll see if it will even be looked at.

d3adpain · January 2019

wtf guys why nerf it ,DELETE IT THAT ***
saving bad players from their mistakes and going to much offence
its the most broken and annoying thing in pvp which of course used by 30k hp healbots

kojou · January 2019

bagon wrote: »

I actually wish these pve players could experience earthgore in pvp, without their bias. They would realise that earthgore has literally been destroying pvp since its been released.

Has it? Literally?