Commancho wrote: »

That's mag DD comparision. What about healers, tanks, gankers etc?
Do you assume that everyone is playing magicka DD class?

Im assuming you're salty. Race as a healer doesnt matter much. Bretons will be good, Argonians, Hell even the crit from Khajit will be good on a healer. You can tank with any race but BiS's will be Argonian, Nord and Imperial in that order. Dps roles are literally the ones that matter because they are the ones killing sh*t and making your tank and healers role easy.

mairwen85 wrote: »

This thread itself is misinformation (or incomplete information) --

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

There is no sense at all that dumner outdps Altmers, Altmers have more max magicka and better sustain. These are different attempts at dps parses could be a perfect parse or could have some slight mistakes.

It needs to be done over a sample of at least 10 parses each and the average is compared

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Yea. you can take thos always with a margin-

Generally, races are close together. Now do the same with DK, sorc etc :P

Exactly, an average taken from x parses for each class per race is the only real statistical analysis that means anything.

Not to mention that his initial video on magplar showed khajit being clearly on top. And it is only going to be amplified in raid with major force...

nsmurfer wrote: »

This is a group buffed dps test so solo number would be variably lesser. Check out https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown/p1 by @susmitds for solo DPS numbers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwAsgDwnALw

GUESS, who is on top.

Dunmer.... followed by Breton, Khajiit and Altmer.

Averages!


This is surprisingly in line with the statistical tests @susmitds has made.

As so many people wanted data by a well known player , well here's one for you. Go ahead and stop the misinformation.

I have the beginning of an answer. If you're accustomed to analyzing parses, one of the things you'll do is look at average and max crit then look at actual ability crit rates.

Now the Dunmer parse had 56.4% average crit rate and abilities like impale and bow (the most important abilities in a NB parse) crit for 64% and 69%.

For the Khajit parse, the average crit rate was 64.7% and the actual crit for the same abilities were more representative at 64 and 67%.

So the Dunmer parse got lucky with crit and actually had relatively higher crit rates than Khajit that has actually higher average crit rates. A curated parse vs a representative parse. Not saying it was intentional as he must be super busy figuring things out which is helping us tremendously but you are actually unknowingly spreading misinformation.

« magNB racial test » you mean. Let’s not forgot altmer get increased elemental damage ... you may not notice it on magNB since they mostly deal magic damage... but on sorc the results must be different.

CleymenZero wrote: »

I have the beginning of an answer. If you're accustomed to analyzing parses, one of the things you'll do is look at average and max crit then look at actual ability crit rates.

Now the Dunmer parse had 56.4% average crit rate and abilities like impale and bow (the most important abilities in a NB parse) crit for 64% and 69%.

For the Khajit parse, the average crit rate was 64.7% and the actual crit for the same abilities were more representative at 64 and 67%.

So the Dunmer parse got lucky with crit and actually had relatively higher crit rates than Khajit that has actually higher average crit rates. A curated parse vs a representative parse. Not saying it was intentional as he must be super busy figuring things out which is helping us tremendously but you are actually unknowingly spreading misinformation.

This is not misinformation, this is normal for parses. That's why you don't compare one but several parses and calculate the average.

In a real combat situation in ESO you will always have differing crit chances and stuff like that, that's why it basically doesn't matter. These parses can happen 1:1 in a dummy fight as well as in a trial fight (under the same conditions), that's why it basically doesn't matter.

So no, he's not spreading misinformation, he's just showing that the "Magicka races" (like others did too) are very well balanced when it comes to DPS.

Seraphayel wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

I have the beginning of an answer. If you're accustomed to analyzing parses, one of the things you'll do is look at average and max crit then look at actual ability crit rates.

Now the Dunmer parse had 56.4% average crit rate and abilities like impale and bow (the most important abilities in a NB parse) crit for 64% and 69%.

For the Khajit parse, the average crit rate was 64.7% and the actual crit for the same abilities were more representative at 64 and 67%.

So the Dunmer parse got lucky with crit and actually had relatively higher crit rates than Khajit that has actually higher average crit rates. A curated parse vs a representative parse. Not saying it was intentional as he must be super busy figuring things out which is helping us tremendously but you are actually unknowingly spreading misinformation.

This is not misinformation, this is normal for parses. That's why you don't compare one but several parses and calculate the average.

In a real combat situation in ESO you will always have differing crit chances and stuff like that, that's why it basically doesn't matter. These parses can happen 1:1 in a dummy fight as well as in a trial fight (under the same conditions), that's why it basically doesn't matter.

So no, he's not spreading misinformation, he's just showing that the "Magicka races" (like others did too) are very well balanced when it comes to DPS.

I would like two see a dunmer with crit abilities representative of average crit VS Khajit.

It obviously happens in parse, it's all statistics and timing of abilities but he compared an average one with a very good one.

I'm not saying he crit-farmed his parse but they are not the same "context" if you will. If you truly believe that "it happens in a parse" why bother making multiple tries to get a bigger sample instead of just using the first one you get? It happens in a parse right? Not trying to demean you, just saying that the argument is not valid. You can crit-farm for days and take one with virtually perfect crit rates and say that it happens or it could happen but the fact is that in a thousand parses, your abilities WILL still average out to be representative of your average crit rate.

Also, if they parse the same on a dummy, Khajit will definitely have a chance to have higher DPS because of major force for example. So in essence they might be equivalent on the dummy most likely won't be in raid.

nsmurfer wrote: »

As so many people wanted data by a well known player , well here's one for you. Go ahead and stop the misinformation.

I have no idea who you even are.

Parse rng is the reason for statistical data showing dumner on top. But on the + side, the races are within close tolerance to each-other. That said, dumner, on paper, is clearly worse -

Subjective testing does not anticipate rng, even if it was done over a hundred times, or a million This is why such statistical data becomes quite pointless when there is a such a low disparity between % in the data.

The disparity may increase to a point where it actually serves as an objective measurement with other classes though. So more testing with other variables will determine this outcome.

ArchMikem wrote: »

The Thief is being used again?

Is this the return of the crit kitty?

You clearly missed the chance to call crit kitty "critty".

Are we going to ignored that these tests are only legit in a pre-made trial/dungeon group? Like how many people here can get you a babysitter and dishing orbs, shards, major encourage and maybe even IA lightning staff heavy attack non-stop?

Tbh, both sustain of dark elf and khajiit will be really awful if your healers aren't dedicated enough. And judging by how many healers actually think they don't need to provide elemental drain and orbs/shards here from a old thread I read on this forum. I don't think both of them can sustain well. Yes, they can add heavy attack in their rotation or prepare 1/2 mag regen jewelry. But then this is where the gap begins.

the only difference i see in patch nites between dunmer and altmer are that altmer have 750 more mag and more sustain.

so sorry i wont believe anyone that says dunmer is better than altmer. sure the difference is pretty small and doesnt justify a race change and all that whining from people.

but in the same fight, with the same rotation and with the same attaxks criting. there is no qay that altmer is behind dunmer, cos there is purely more raw stat. unless zos *** something up

looking at the screenshots in this thread i notice that impale and assassins will have significant lower dmg on aktmer than kn dunmer.
i guess that is because of warhorn timing

This is one of those areas where ZoS should swoop in, break protocol, and show some internal data.

ZoS can produce a perfect parse. They can remove crit from the equation entirely. They can guarantee perfect proc uptime, enchant uptime, perfect weaves, and perfect cancels.

It can do this programmatically, one time, once per race, all on common builds. This would guarantee an even baseline with zero RNG for comparison. Eliminate every human factor, every RNG factor, and then show the result spread.

I realize that @Liko is probably the closest to a perfectly executed parse that anyone could hope for, but there are still other factors.

While it's appreciated, it honestly shouldn't have to be done by any player to see the baseline results across any race, any build, any class.

The perfect numbers (you could factor in crit after the fact, knowing that the highest DPS would be 100% crits, so adding that crit damage increase to the base) would be the best attainable.

The (optional) follow up would then be the Liko's, followed by the average, followed by the newer players, to see how the various tiers are really affected by these changes and what the DPS spread for race/class is ideally, and in practice, in an assortment of hands.

While the top end numbers being close sounds promising, anyone not top end is going to fumble, make some mistakes, and have different results, both in final parse and the regen required to obtain it.

It needs to be shown on various setups, not just BiS gear in the hands of BiS players to really show what's going on.

Kudos to both @Liko and @susmitds for the testing they honestly shouldn't have had to even do.

Start with the ideal scenario, adjust, see how it works out in actual gameplay, adjust again.

The parses have already been shown to be skewed, as pointed out above, and there are way too little of the parses here to determine anything. The characters must be on equal footing with dozens of before after parses of every single race. This is just spreading misinformation. SO nothing changed. There is still no concrete set of numbers to go on. It's nice that people try to solve something, but it needs to be solved with facts not assumptions and half measures. This just confused some people from both sides even more.