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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 26
First they came for my class. Then for my spec. And now for my race.
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Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
It actually is when nerfs are appropriate like in this case.
If Dark Elves keep the fire damage bonus High Elves must keep their elemental bonuses as well and then nothing changes at all.
Nothing changing at all would actually be BETTER.
Since there was no promised freedom or diversity, there still will be bis race for each role.
What was the point then? I cannot think anything else than milking money with Race change tokens since the goals of the changes did not happen.
Since changed nothing except sales numbers on those.
Hard facts son.
Edited by Moonsorrow on January 23, 2019 2:39AM4 -
coj901✭✭✭
If you're not going for scores though why does it matter? You can still complete content, DPS is down yes but we're not talking tens of thousands.TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
If you care about the damage your character does keep chasing the meta and switch, if you care about playing a race because you like a race then keep playing that race.
People are being insanely hyperbolic with some of their posting as if ZOS has made them lose 30K DPS with these changes. There are plenty of other nerfs which have happened which had bigger impacts on DPS than these racial changes did and people are still kicking butt with their characters.
I had to train for MONTHS to increase my DPS by 2k, to make my weaving and rotations perfect. And now they take away a sizable portion of it. You think it's little? It's what makes me get invites to hm trials over other guys who trained and prepared less than me.
Maybe you like to be treated like an hamster ever rolling on a wheel, I am not.
"Trained" I think your taking this game a bit too serious. You are the minority here zos is more concerned with the larger playerbase.5 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭In every MMO I play (since before 2000) I play a magicka based DPS, usually a mage. I love Dark Elves (Baldur's Gate times!).
(This is entirely a PvE oriented post).
When ESO beta started, I rolled a Dunmer Magicka Sorceress, of course.
I had tons of great time and epic moments with her.
*snip* Purchased all sorts of crown store stuff to make her better.
Eh, you can't have bought CS stuff to "make her better". It's all cosmetic, y'know....Edited by Sylvermynx on January 23, 2019 11:51PM0 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭Furthermore - to me ZOS right now is all ‘just the tip!’ You know it never ends at just the tip.
That’s the low attention span way to put it.2 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭In every MMO I play (since before 2000) I play a magicka based DPS, usually a mage. I love Dark Elves (Baldur's Gate times!).
(This is entirely a PvE oriented post).
When ESO beta started, I rolled a Dunmer Magicka Sorceress, of course.
I had tons of great time and epic moments with her.
I have invested INNUMERABLE hours on her. Purchased all sorts of crown store stuff to make her better.
With her, I had all the hard mode and speed run achievements for Craglorn trials when we still had Veteran Ranks.
With her, I made into hard mode vMOL.
Over the years, however, ZOS has relentlessy made playing her less tasteful and meaningful.
I am not (just) talking about performance. This is a (mmo)RPG, that is you are meant to have a grand "feel good" experience with your characters. They have to feel epic, they have a story, they have a lore. Dunmers literally live around volcanoes and this has forever changed their affinity to fire.
First ZOS started a never ending chipping away of class signature abilities. It's not the case I list what everyone know: killed and made "normalized" our nuke. Normalized all sorts of unique curses, shields etc, in the name of a tasteless streamlining. Read: "it costs us time and money, so we can't bother dealing with class and builds diversity. We just level all them down to a simple, easily managed minimum common denominator".
Funnily enough, I played a 2008 PvP MMO that featured 24 different races and specs, made by a smaller company, and yet they managed to make it balanced. Apparently a billion company cannot deal with an handful classes.
Furthermore: I always loved playing a fire or lightning spec. Both have their uses. Being an "old generation" gamer, I have been accustomed at mages being the "masters of AoE". After enough AoE fire damage specs, I switched to lightning and loved it. Being this a RPG that features multiple specs, I love both fire and lightning and expect they are both viable.
However, over the years, fire got stripped off AoE and became single target, lightning became sort of the forced "pets + AoE" spec.
What happened then? Already PvE underperforming magicka sorceresses developed so that lightning spec is non competitive any more. Fire spec used to be decent (I don't say "competitive" because that's reserved to other classes) and, being a Dunmer, I could reap some benefits out of that.
But now they are coming for my race too. Cruelly stripping away the last taste of flavour I could enjoy, stripping away the fire damage bonus. Giving some stamina bonus, to a race that has ALWAYS meant to be "just behind Altmers as magicka affinity".
Coming next patch, I am left with a visibly underperforming ligthtning spec OR a nerfed fire spec. There's no way out. It's just nerf stacking on nerf, stacking on class homogenization.
Only alternative, would be to change race and class, that is the two very reasons why I play ESO for.
I don't care if I get a free race change token. I want to play my character AS IS, as it's always done for 5 years!
Is it asking too much?
Yet another idiotic example of the belief that if something isn’t the best then it completely sucks.
That was what you took away from that whole big long post? *facepalm*2 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭
TBH Loki (Norse god of chaos - not naming names) took a small comment out of context and then argued with themself about it and some people tried to set that straight and here we are. Read back through.Seraphayel wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »Actually his point does bring something to the discussion if he and some other people see it as being true. There, actually, is some substance to what the players are complaining about here as well. This impacts all players directly and indirectly.
And that's why it really doesn't matter in the end.
It's not like they just touched one race and nerfed it to the ground, it was a well-rounded approach of bringing races closer together which - surprise surprise, nobody expected this - might have been achieved.
If you're arguing with race / class changes now, you could use that argument every time they change classes or races. Every time. And that's why the arguments are so flawed. This game is under constant development and ZOS owes us nothing in this regard.
I'm not trying to be a pain or argue here. I'm just seeing this differently, according to the patch notes so far. Anyway, how is it well rounded when there are still clearly OP races and lackluster races? and the changes will cost people money? It isn't about need or meta or non meta players. everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. I stated this in my other comment a few posts back already in this thread.
No changes will cost people money. ZOS can make every change to races or classes they want to make. They're even offering one free race change (which they musn't do at all). Nobody is enforcing race changes but yourself. If you feel obliged to do them, do them. It's neither necessary nor mandatory.
Exactly, everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. That's why all of us are affected, positively or negatively - doesn't matter.
Who cares if there are OP races or lackluster races? That's normal. We have OP classes and lackluster classes, OP builds and lackluster builds. There is no obligation on ZOS side to make everything viable. Again, they owe us nothing in that regard.
Yes they will cost people money.
Yes they can change the races. I didn't say they couldn't. However, to change back to a meta char or to get the char you originally wanted to pick but couldn't because it was too punishing you'll have to pay money.
I'm not enforcing race changes. I don't know what you're on about there.
It most certainly does matter to some people if they are impacted or not and if the races are truly balanced or not. It also matters if they have 2 chars or all slots full if they'll need to change for one reason or the other. If someone choses not to change that's fine for him. this thread and all of the others wouldn't be here if none of these matters to the player base.
Okay, let me rephrase it: it might matter for some/many players. That's fine, they have all the right to be angry, disappointed and to complain.
Nevertheless they neither have any obligation to spend any money to race change nor does ZOS owe them an unlimited amount of free race changes just because they chose to rework some of the racial passives. You see, every player is allowed to dislike the changes as much as ZOS is allowed to change classes/races all they want to.
And no one ever debated that.
Then what's all the fuzz about if no one ever debated that?
ZOS applies changes which is normal in any MMORPG: check.
Players like/dislike the changes: check.
ZOS offers a free race change per account which they mustn't do at all: check.
Players can change their race for free, for tokens or start a new character: check.
Neither ZOS nor the game by itself enforces anybody to race change: check.
Where is the problem? If players feel obliged to race change because players feel obliged by other players to do so it's their fault and nobody else's. First and foremost it's not ZOS fault if a part of the community enforces this min-maxing meta playstyle especially not when all races were brought closer together than before.
TL;DR(back through)
This is how discussion works.
These passives gutted one race and buffed another - and taaa daaa its Khajiit. Lul. Well ofc it is.
The meta does matter to some people and if you think ZOS doesn’t know that - you should think again.
If you want the most possible dps then you need to pay or otherwise obtain crowns, to get it back. Or you have to train and level another character.
EITHER WAY: It’s messing with a whole group of people who will basically have to pay to keep their raiding spots on their rosters.
It’s also the beginning of pay for better specs if only slightly now - but remember the AD we all said was annoying? Only after changes they said. Okay you said. Now it’s daily. lol. In a game we already pay for.
People have been already calling Wardens pay to win as you needed the chapter to make one - since wardens don’t ‘win’ people gave up on it.
Now me? I don’t care if something is pay to win or not - I played archeage ffs - you don’t know p2w until you play that.
I do care though - about people belittling complaints about it and pretending like it’s not happening when it is.
Think what you want, do what you want - that’s what I’m gonna do. I’m also gonna mind my own business about what you choose to do - so if I say that if this is bad enough that I’ll just shelve my Dunmer Magblade - then don’t tell me booo no one is forcing you to be a cat it doesn’t matter. No shi...Sherlock- no one forces me to do anything, but yes it does matter.
However people too often take parts of comments entirely out of context, infer their own meanings and then proceed to argue with their own inference.
Ta Daa! This is how we end up here.Edited by IzzyStardust on January 23, 2019 5:17AM5 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moonsorrow wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
It actually is when nerfs are appropriate like in this case.
If Dark Elves keep the fire damage bonus High Elves must keep their elemental bonuses as well and then nothing changes at all.
Nothing changing at all would actually be BETTER.
Since there was no promised freedom or diversity, there still will be bis race for each role.
What was the point then? I cannot think anything else than milking money with Race change tokens since the goals of the changes did not happen.
Since changed nothing except sales numbers on those.
Hard facts son.
Hard facts: races are brought closer together with the changes.
With that they achieved more than I would have expected (and that was their point - bringing racea closer together). That Altmer, Dunmer, Khajiit and Breton are almost parsing with similar results for Magicka is very nice. Prior to that Khajiit wasn't even in the equation. Same goes for Dunmer and Stamina now.
_______
@IzzyStardust
Okay, shelf your Dunmer Nightblade. If you feel obliged to do so, do it. Use the free race change or pay for it. Just be aware that right after you did that ZOS might change the Khajiit passives and maybe reduce or remove the Spell Crit alltogether which brings Khajiit down again and now you need to be Breton/Altmer. What do you do then? Race change again? What if they buff Khajiit again when they realised they overnerfed them and buff them again, making them 2% stronger than the rest? You race change again? Don't you see that you're (and the "best" / meta crowd) the problem here and not ZOS changing things?Edited by Seraphayel on January 23, 2019 6:12AMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -3 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Beastofmash wrote: »Every skill and race in all mmos are subject to nerfs. It's difficult to keep everything fair with so many aditional updates
Your opinion would ground ANY rational sense, if they nerfed the top overperforming class and race.
No, they arent. Mag sorcs are not bad but are certainly NOT above anyone else and Dunmer are NOT above Altmer. Altmer who, for some reason, have this regal right to be just best at everything including regen.
This seems to be a theme with zos. Even from a pvp perspective, it doesnt seem like they tried to balance the races. It seems like they sacrificed some classes to try and get some better hybrid races. And they also nerfed certain races and barely touched some, or made other races a fair amount better for certain things.
This is the same for pvp and pve. If they wanted to balance the races, then fine. But they didnt. They did not balance every race equally. All they did was make it so certain races/builds/classes/play styles have to change to different races if they want the best race for what they are doing.
I think zos would do a lot better at balancing if they hired more people like @ZOS_Gilliam. I really dont know anything about him, but from what ive heard he knows the game well. Zos needs a group of serious pvp and pve players to actually listen to. I think this was supposed to be the case with the class reps, but i have little faith in it.
They just need people who seriously play the game. They need to brainstorm with those people.0 -
Yamenstein✭✭✭✭✭They should get rid of the dunmer changes and just keep it like the old one. I reckon they would still be bottom of the ladder because of all the changes to the other races but that's okay, dunmer magdk lovers can stop complaining about losing 7% flame damage.
Can someone do some magdk parses to see what the changes actually look like, both self buffed and with assist.
Crown Crates are a trap. Don't fall for the gamble! Balance? What Balance? Balance, smellance.
Necro for them RP feels.1 -
Fingolfinn01✭✭✭✭Don't worry unless you want to be on the leader board. However that sounds a bit hollow. They made an error with dark elves and should fix it
PC-NA2 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭First ZOS started a never ending chipping away of class signature abilities. It's not the case I list what everyone know: killed and made "normalized" our nuke. Normalized all sorts of unique curses, shields etc, in the name of a tasteless streamlining. Read: "it costs us time and money, so we can't bother dealing with class and builds diversity. We just level all them down to a simple, easily managed minimum common denominator".
This is my biggest gripe in ESO PVE. Literally every class plays the same (i.e. they have the same rotations: buff, dot, dot, spammable, over and over again). It's so boring now, all for the sake of streamlining.2 -
Kram8ion✭✭✭✭✭
✭I feel your pain this last few months have been a tightening noose around my neck
My sets major expedition got wrecked and my swift rings
My piercing Mark is now useless (swaps for draining shot; getting nerfed)
Also am duel wielding wood elf and now I think my increased dmg from stealth is going?
As long as I still have fall damage reduction then it’s going to be fine I suppose lol
But *** hum what can you do? I guess I can just adapt
I’m not really fussed about the changes, gives me something to do after years on one toonAussie lag is real!1 -
evoniee✭✭✭✭HAHAHAHA Pepega PVE player
elitism in this thread is so *** *** and toxic
devs tweak something to make 'all player' in line with racial power and 1% of the game population whining like a babyrage LOOOL
PVE is endgame ? im enjoy farming *** pve player cp 1000+ at midyer mayhem with my cp 700 minimal setup and weak race6 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If you're not going for scores though why does it matter? You can still complete content, DPS is down yes but we're not talking tens of thousands.TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
If you care about the damage your character does keep chasing the meta and switch, if you care about playing a race because you like a race then keep playing that race.
People are being insanely hyperbolic with some of their posting as if ZOS has made them lose 30K DPS with these changes. There are plenty of other nerfs which have happened which had bigger impacts on DPS than these racial changes did and people are still kicking butt with their characters.
I had to train for MONTHS to increase my DPS by 2k, to make my weaving and rotations perfect. And now they take away a sizable portion of it. You think it's little? It's what makes me get invites to hm trials over other guys who trained and prepared less than me.
Maybe you like to be treated like an hamster ever rolling on a wheel, I am not.
"Trained" I think your taking this game a bit too serious. You are the minority here zos is more concerned with the larger playerbase.
You don’t get to tell people what they’re taking too seriously or not. It is training. What else would you call it? You could say practising but it amounts to the same thing: A lot of time in to be the very best you can.
ZOS is concerned with money. Elsweyr is next chapter release. Khajiit gets best stats.
This is not complicated.4 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
It actually is when nerfs are appropriate like in this case.
If Dark Elves keep the fire damage bonus High Elves must keep their elemental bonuses as well and then nothing changes at all.
Nothing changing at all would actually be BETTER.
Since there was no promised freedom or diversity, there still will be bis race for each role.
What was the point then? I cannot think anything else than milking money with Race change tokens since the goals of the changes did not happen.
Since changed nothing except sales numbers on those.
Hard facts son.
Hard facts: races are brought closer together with the changes.
With that they achieved more than I would have expected (and that was their point - bringing racea closer together). That Altmer, Dunmer, Khajiit and Breton are almost parsing with similar results for Magicka is very nice. Prior to that Khajiit wasn't even in the equation. Same goes for Dunmer and Stamina now.
_______
@IzzyStardust
Okay, shelf your Dunmer Nightblade. If you feel obliged to do so, do it. Use the free race change or pay for it. Just be aware that right after you did that ZOS might change the Khajiit passives and maybe reduce or remove the Spell Crit alltogether which brings Khajiit down again and now you need to be Breton/Altmer. What do you do then? Race change again? What if they buff Khajiit again when they realised they overnerfed them and buff them again, making them 2% stronger than the rest? You race change again? Don't you see that you're (and the "best" / meta crowd) the problem here and not ZOS changing things?
Idk if I need to write it in all caps or something - as I’ve said it at least 4-5 times now, I am still not, nor ever was, going to race change my character. I just work around it or don’t play with it.
You and anyone else do whatever you like. I’ll play until it’s not fun and then just quit.2 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭That's not completely true. Non meta and Meta players are complaining in part, because the races still won't be in line with one another. There will still be better performing and lackluster races. So far, there's no real point to the changes. They're just shifting the meta for $€£.
Edited by Arrodisia on January 23, 2019 11:23AM4 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IzzyStardust wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
It actually is when nerfs are appropriate like in this case.
If Dark Elves keep the fire damage bonus High Elves must keep their elemental bonuses as well and then nothing changes at all.
Nothing changing at all would actually be BETTER.
Since there was no promised freedom or diversity, there still will be bis race for each role.
What was the point then? I cannot think anything else than milking money with Race change tokens since the goals of the changes did not happen.
Since changed nothing except sales numbers on those.
Hard facts son.
Hard facts: races are brought closer together with the changes.
With that they achieved more than I would have expected (and that was their point - bringing racea closer together). That Altmer, Dunmer, Khajiit and Breton are almost parsing with similar results for Magicka is very nice. Prior to that Khajiit wasn't even in the equation. Same goes for Dunmer and Stamina now.
_______
@IzzyStardust
Okay, shelf your Dunmer Nightblade. If you feel obliged to do so, do it. Use the free race change or pay for it. Just be aware that right after you did that ZOS might change the Khajiit passives and maybe reduce or remove the Spell Crit alltogether which brings Khajiit down again and now you need to be Breton/Altmer. What do you do then? Race change again? What if they buff Khajiit again when they realised they overnerfed them and buff them again, making them 2% stronger than the rest? You race change again? Don't you see that you're (and the "best" / meta crowd) the problem here and not ZOS changing things?
Idk if I need to write it in all caps or something - as I’ve said it at least 4-5 times now, I am still not, nor ever was, going to race change my character. I just work around it or don’t play with it.
You and anyone else do whatever you like. I’ll play until it’s not fun and then just quit.
Well then I congratulate you on doing the only plausible thing in this case. Which brings us to the point where a "real" problem isn't even existing anymore because you already try to adapt to the changes which is reasonable.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Yasha✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
It actually is when nerfs are appropriate like in this case.
If Dark Elves keep the fire damage bonus High Elves must keep their elemental bonuses as well and then nothing changes at all.
Nothing changing at all would actually be BETTER.
Since there was no promised freedom or diversity, there still will be bis race for each role.
What was the point then? I cannot think anything else than milking money with Race change tokens since the goals of the changes did not happen.
Since changed nothing except sales numbers on those.
Hard facts son.
Hard facts: races are brought closer together with the changes.
With that they achieved more than I would have expected (and that was their point - bringing racea closer together). That Altmer, Dunmer, Khajiit and Breton are almost parsing with similar results for Magicka is very nice. Prior to that Khajiit wasn't even in the equation. Same goes for Dunmer and Stamina now.
_______
@IzzyStardust
Okay, shelf your Dunmer Nightblade. If you feel obliged to do so, do it. Use the free race change or pay for it. Just be aware that right after you did that ZOS might change the Khajiit passives and maybe reduce or remove the Spell Crit alltogether which brings Khajiit down again and now you need to be Breton/Altmer. What do you do then? Race change again? What if they buff Khajiit again when they realised they overnerfed them and buff them again, making them 2% stronger than the rest? You race change again? Don't you see that you're (and the "best" / meta crowd) the problem here and not ZOS changing things?
Idk if I need to write it in all caps or something - as I’ve said it at least 4-5 times now, I am still not, nor ever was, going to race change my character. I just work around it or don’t play with it.
You and anyone else do whatever you like. I’ll play until it’s not fun and then just quit.
Well then I congratulate you on doing the only plausible thing in this case. Which brings us to the point where a "real" problem isn't even existing anymore because you already try to adapt to the changes which is reasonable.
The problem is real but we have little choice but to roll with the changes.2 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭We showed you actual evidence that you are not losing huge amounts of dps by not being the "Best" race and that every race is very close as far as damage goes. This is why we are saying you are complaining about nothing. Because either you care about the extra 500 dps or you don't and are attached to your character as is. Any guild that kicks you because you aren't the "best" race isn't a guild worth belonging to.1 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭That only speaks for part of why people would want to change to begin with. The raw output is only part of the problem. The races still aren't balanced............ and what about non meta who want to change because of this? Many answers aren't covering all of the issues involved, because many people aren't reading the entire thread, and/or reading all of the other threads up about this topic.
The evidence is that there is still an imbalance and still a difference in numbers and sustain. People are fully justified to be bothered by the changed for multiple reasons which were given in my first comment a page or two back.Edited by Arrodisia on January 23, 2019 11:53AM3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just leaving this here...
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5757162#Comment_5757162
All four "Magicka" races are parsing very close together, the difference from best to worst is ~ 2-3%.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭It's still a difference. It is still imbalanced. It doesn't even show the dps of the other races. There isn't enough data there to go on yet either. YOu'd need to parse many, many times on each class. Then compare them to reach any conclusion at all.Edited by Arrodisia on January 23, 2019 12:02PM2
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Itzmichi✭✭✭✭✭In every MMO I play (since before 2000) I play a magicka based DPS, usually a mage. I love Dark Elves (Baldur's Gate times!).
(This is entirely a PvE oriented post).
When ESO beta started, I rolled a Dunmer Magicka Sorceress, of course.
I had tons of great time and epic moments with her.
I have invested INNUMERABLE hours on her. Purchased all sorts of crown store stuff to make her better.
With her, I had all the hard mode and speed run achievements for Craglorn trials when we still had Veteran Ranks.
With her, I made into hard mode vMOL.
Over the years, however, ZOS has relentlessy made playing her less tasteful and meaningful.
I am not (just) talking about performance. This is a (mmo)RPG, that is you are meant to have a grand "feel good" experience with your characters. They have to feel epic, they have a story, they have a lore. Dunmers literally live around volcanoes and this has forever changed their affinity to fire.
First ZOS started a never ending chipping away of class signature abilities. It's not the case I list what everyone know: killed and made "normalized" our nuke. Normalized all sorts of unique curses, shields etc, in the name of a tasteless streamlining. Read: "it costs us time and money, so we can't bother dealing with class and builds diversity. We just level all them down to a simple, easily managed minimum common denominator".
Funnily enough, I played a 2008 PvP MMO that featured 24 different races and specs, made by a smaller company, and yet they managed to make it balanced. Apparently a billion company cannot deal with an handful classes.
Furthermore: I always loved playing a fire or lightning spec. Both have their uses. Being an "old generation" gamer, I have been accustomed at mages being the "masters of AoE". After enough AoE fire damage specs, I switched to lightning and loved it. Being this a RPG that features multiple specs, I love both fire and lightning and expect they are both viable.
However, over the years, fire got stripped off AoE and became single target, lightning became sort of the forced "pets + AoE" spec.
What happened then? Already PvE underperforming magicka sorceresses developed so that lightning spec is non competitive any more. Fire spec used to be decent (I don't say "competitive" because that's reserved to other classes) and, being a Dunmer, I could reap some benefits out of that.
But now they are coming for my race too. Cruelly stripping away the last taste of flavour I could enjoy, stripping away the fire damage bonus. Giving some stamina bonus, to a race that has ALWAYS meant to be "just behind Altmers as magicka affinity".
Coming next patch, I am left with a visibly underperforming ligthtning spec OR a nerfed fire spec. There's no way out. It's just nerf stacking on nerf, stacking on class homogenization.
Only alternative, would be to change race and class, that is the two very reasons why I play ESO for.
I don't care if I get a free race change token. I want to play my character AS IS, as it's always done for 5 years!
Is it asking too much?
Yes it is, would require to stop time and with that any improvement or change, which on the other hand would kill the game. Everybody loves writing sentimental threads about their so sad past that they can't proceed onto the future and adapt and maybe be open to changes and find some other class or race enjoyable.
I love ranger classes, but you know I'm not crying about it as 1) people don't care and 2) there were other options I enjoyed.
Here, have a chill pill 💊!0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »It's still a difference. It is still imbalanced. It doesn't even show the dps of the other races. There isn't enough data there to go on yet either. YOu'd need to parse many, many times on each class. Then compare them to reach any conclusion at all.
I must have missed these parses by the "sky is falling" or "races are sh*t now" crowd. I mean they claim race xyz is weaker or useless now but haven't provided any tests yet to actually prove their point. Whereas we have several parses now that races are factually not very much apart from each other.Edited by Seraphayel on January 23, 2019 12:05PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭NO he isn't asking for too much, and it stops nothing as far as progress, because balance wasn't obtained by these changes. People do care about what he has to say. He has a right to speak his mind. It hurts nothing for him to ask for what he wants...............These changes haven't achieved balance. There is still a race at the top and a race at the bottom. It doesn't matter if it is 2%, 3%, or 50%. It's a difference. Therefore still an imbalance, which makes this feel more and more like a cash grab and less about balance.Edited by Arrodisia on January 23, 2019 12:15PM4
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Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »It's still a difference. It is still imbalanced. It doesn't even show the dps of the other races. There isn't enough data there to go on yet either. YOu'd need to parse many, many times on each class. Then compare them to reach any conclusion at all.
I must have missed these parses by the "sky is falling" or "races are sh*t now" crowd. I mean they claim race xyz is weaker or useless now but haven't provided any tests yet to actually prove their point. Whereas we have several parses now that races are factually not very much apart from each other.
As I stated above there are only a small amount of parses there. Those aren't enough to tell what the impact is yet, which many people pointed out there in that thread and for various reasons. There is still really no proof.
...but now let's play devil's advocate. Those parses actually prove your opposers are right. Those parses actually hurt your argument. They don't support your argument. They show. There is still a difference. Even the smallest difference between the races means there's still an imbalance, and this whole subject impacts all chars not just magicka and not just meta.
I'd wait for more data from all races, and data that actually supports your argument. PTS just came out. They'll need time to get that data out.
Even if you manage to find that data next week, it still won't change that or any of the other issues involved for non meta players.
Edited by Arrodisia on January 23, 2019 12:36PM3 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
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If you're not going for scores though why does it matter? You can still complete content, DPS is down yes but we're not talking tens of thousands.TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
If you care about the damage your character does keep chasing the meta and switch, if you care about playing a race because you like a race then keep playing that race.
People are being insanely hyperbolic with some of their posting as if ZOS has made them lose 30K DPS with these changes. There are plenty of other nerfs which have happened which had bigger impacts on DPS than these racial changes did and people are still kicking butt with their characters.
I had to train for MONTHS to increase my DPS by 2k, to make my weaving and rotations perfect. And now they take away a sizable portion of it. You think it's little? It's what makes me get invites to hm trials over other guys who trained and prepared less than me.
Maybe you like to be treated like an hamster ever rolling on a wheel, I am not.
"Trained" I think your taking this game a bit too serious. You are the minority here zos is more concerned with the larger playerbase.
Truth is not decided by popular consensus. The fact most don't care, does not mean the others should just shut up and die. Quietly.Edited by Vahrokh on January 23, 2019 12:55PMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭HAHAHAHA Pepega PVE player
elitism in this thread is so *** *** and toxic
devs tweak something to make 'all player' in line with racial power and 1% of the game population whining like a babyrage LOOOL
PVE is endgame ? im enjoy farming *** pve player cp 1000+ at midyer mayhem with my cp 700 minimal setup and weak race
This is basically the only toxic post in this thread. As the asterisks and general verbiage clearly show.
Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO4 -
IzzyStardust✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »IzzyStardust wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Moonsorrow wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »Then keep playing it.
Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.
Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.
It actually is when nerfs are appropriate like in this case.
If Dark Elves keep the fire damage bonus High Elves must keep their elemental bonuses as well and then nothing changes at all.
Nothing changing at all would actually be BETTER.
Since there was no promised freedom or diversity, there still will be bis race for each role.
What was the point then? I cannot think anything else than milking money with Race change tokens since the goals of the changes did not happen.
Since changed nothing except sales numbers on those.
Hard facts son.
Hard facts: races are brought closer together with the changes.
With that they achieved more than I would have expected (and that was their point - bringing racea closer together). That Altmer, Dunmer, Khajiit and Breton are almost parsing with similar results for Magicka is very nice. Prior to that Khajiit wasn't even in the equation. Same goes for Dunmer and Stamina now.
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@IzzyStardust
Okay, shelf your Dunmer Nightblade. If you feel obliged to do so, do it. Use the free race change or pay for it. Just be aware that right after you did that ZOS might change the Khajiit passives and maybe reduce or remove the Spell Crit alltogether which brings Khajiit down again and now you need to be Breton/Altmer. What do you do then? Race change again? What if they buff Khajiit again when they realised they overnerfed them and buff them again, making them 2% stronger than the rest? You race change again? Don't you see that you're (and the "best" / meta crowd) the problem here and not ZOS changing things?
Idk if I need to write it in all caps or something - as I’ve said it at least 4-5 times now, I am still not, nor ever was, going to race change my character. I just work around it or don’t play with it.
You and anyone else do whatever you like. I’ll play until it’s not fun and then just quit.
Well then I congratulate you on doing the only plausible thing in this case. Which brings us to the point where a "real" problem isn't even existing anymore because you already try to adapt to the changes which is reasonable.
*headdesk*
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