First they came for my class. Then for my spec. And now for my race.

Vahrokh

In every MMO I play (since before 2000) I play a magicka based DPS, usually a mage. I love Dark Elves (Baldur's Gate times!).

(This is entirely a PvE oriented post).

When ESO beta started, I rolled a Dunmer Magicka Sorceress, of course.
I had tons of great time and epic moments with her.


I have invested INNUMERABLE hours on her. Purchased all sorts of crown store stuff to make her better.

With her, I had all the hard mode and speed run achievements for Craglorn trials when we still had Veteran Ranks.

With her, I made into hard mode vMOL.


Over the years, however, ZOS has relentlessy made playing her less tasteful and meaningful.
I am not (just) talking about performance. This is a (mmo)RPG, that is you are meant to have a grand "feel good" experience with your characters. They have to feel epic, they have a story, they have a lore. Dunmers literally live around volcanoes and this has forever changed their affinity to fire.

First ZOS started a never ending chipping away of class signature abilities. It's not the case I list what everyone know: killed and made "normalized" our nuke. Normalized all sorts of unique curses, shields etc, in the name of a tasteless streamlining. Read: "it costs us time and money, so we can't bother dealing with class and builds diversity. We just level all them down to a simple, easily managed minimum common denominator".

Funnily enough, I played a 2008 PvP MMO that featured 24 different races and specs, made by a smaller company, and yet they managed to make it balanced. Apparently a billion company cannot deal with an handful classes.


Furthermore: I always loved playing a fire or lightning spec. Both have their uses. Being an "old generation" gamer, I have been accustomed at mages being the "masters of AoE". After enough AoE fire damage specs, I switched to lightning and loved it. Being this a RPG that features multiple specs, I love both fire and lightning and expect they are both viable.

However, over the years, fire got stripped off AoE and became single target, lightning became sort of the forced "pets + AoE" spec.

What happened then? Already PvE underperforming magicka sorceresses developed so that lightning spec is non competitive any more. Fire spec used to be decent (I don't say "competitive" because that's reserved to other classes) and, being a Dunmer, I could reap some benefits out of that.

But now they are coming for my race too. Cruelly stripping away the last taste of flavour I could enjoy, stripping away the fire damage bonus. Giving some stamina bonus, to a race that has ALWAYS meant to be "just behind Altmers as magicka affinity".

Coming next patch, I am left with a visibly underperforming ligthtning spec OR a nerfed fire spec. There's no way out. It's just nerf stacking on nerf, stacking on class homogenization.

Only alternative, would be to change race and class, that is the two very reasons why I play ESO for.

I don't care if I get a free race change token. I want to play my character AS IS, as it's always done for 5 years!

Is it asking too much?

mairwen85

It won't be so bad after we change our spec, adjust and bend, focus on stacking recovery -- we'll be on par with or just behind Kajiit (!)

Wait! what?...

I agree. But I wont change race -- I'll make it work.

Turelus

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

Dielmeanathal

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

THIS!

Brrrofski

Unless you want the best scores at stuff then it won't matter.

If you do, change the race.

Sometime you can't have everything you want.

Harrdarrzarr

What makes you think you can't play your character as is?

Narvuntien

I tested my set up on the PTS and my DPS was the same, you'll be fine.

TheShadowScout

We game, we get nerfed, we game again...

Yeah, they are always tinkering with things. They are ealways changing things, -especially- things that prove to be more effective then they might have originally planned.
What else is new?

Like it has been said, all that doomsaying of "zis race iz dead nao" or "dey killed dat build" is just that... random whinings from people who were playing a -build- and not a character.

If you play a character, you won't care about those racial nerfs, you will play them because you loved the character idea, not the set of stats and boni you got from it.
(And yes, I have a dunmer sorceror boy. Who refuses to use fire staves because it just didn't fit the character idea of a -librarian-, all that flame around books and scrolls? No way!)
So what if you perform a little less then you used to post-nerfings? As long as you can still pull your weight through a dungeon and not stand in the fire to vex your healer... I don't see the problem!

The only thing you -might- care about if that they foolishly made fire single target, shock AoE and ice tanky... when you wanted to have an ice DPS option or whatever.
(And yeah, I wish they would remove ALL tankyness from -destruction- staves, give ice back its DPS flavor, and add a third staff line where you get only tanky stuff... but alas...)

MartiniDaniels

ZOS have no right to rip races of their lore racials. Large % of ESO players came here only because of lore they loved from original TES games. Switching race is ok variant for some secondary toon.. but to switch race or even affinity (stam or magicka) on main character is similar to killing him/her.
Add dunmer those 150 fire damage on top 258 of common bnous and close this case, dunmer will be viable for both stam and magicka and still no OP in them.

IzzyStardust

In my guild’s discord they are saying that Khajiit will translate to roughly 2k more dps.

I don’t want to have to play an animal type race.

I’m still waiting it out to see what happens - but for now, I’m not really happy so far.

Merlin13KAGL

IzzyStardust wrote: »

In my guild’s discord they are saying that Khajiit will translate to roughly 2k more dps.

I don’t want to have to play an animal type race.

I’m still waiting it out to see what happens - but for now, I’m not really happy so far.

Which translates to <16k more group DPS on the hardest core raid...hardly enough to warrant forced change.

TheGreatBlackBear

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.

Beastofmash

Every skill and race in all mmos are subject to nerfs. It's difficult to keep everything fair with so many aditional updates

TheInfernalRage

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.

Sounds like someone triggered a member of the BiS Cult of the Church of Meta.

Tigerseye

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

In my guild’s discord they are saying that Khajiit will translate to roughly 2k more dps.

I don’t want to have to play an animal type race.

I’m still waiting it out to see what happens - but for now, I’m not really happy so far.

Which translates to <16k more group DPS on the hardest core raid...hardly enough to warrant forced change.

That's not how min/maxers look at things, though.

Even if someone decides to stick with a less than optimal race, other people are less likely to take them into hard content, given the choice.

That is just the way it is.

I'm not condoning it, it's just a fact.

That is why balance in MMOs is so important.

mxxo

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.

Sounds like someone triggered a member of the BiS Cult of the Church of Meta.

If we ignore passives for what reason we do have passives?

I don´t need every Char to be BIS. I have Fun Chars, too.. but then its my free decision.

TheGreatBlackBear

TheInfernalRage wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.

Sounds like someone triggered a member of the BiS Cult of the Church of Meta.

Not really. I main healers and tanks; we don't get nerfs generally. I'm just sick of ZoS apologists.

Robo_Hobo

If you want to be a Dunmer, then be a Dunmer. People have been Khajiit, Orc and Redguard Mages for years because that's what they wanted to be.

rexagamemnon

I read the first line of this OP, and saw that you played Baldur’s Gate back in the day. At this point it doesn’t matter what you wrote, you are automatically right and anyone else who says otherwise in this thread is wrong😂. I loved Baldur’s Gate growing up. All these kids up here giving thier opinion about the game and what would make ESO better, its as if they think they are RPG experts. When you have played RPG’s since Baldur’s Gate or Longer, then talk to me on the intricacies of an RPG.
Now on the subject of race changes, i understand your feelings on the matter. My main character is an Imperial Magplar. He is my game content and RPG character so i dont worry to much about the racial passive updates when it comes to him because, im not really affected much by it considering what i do with him. But for my other characters like my healers, tanks and various dps builds that i use for trials and dungeons, im worried about because clearly they will be affected mostly in a negative way. My dunmer dps DK will not be as proficient with dps clearly since his fire damage will be diminished, thats just one example.

starkerealm

Vahrokh wrote: »

Giving some stamina bonus, to a race that has ALWAYS meant to be "just behind Altmers as magicka affinity".

You mean the race that already has a stam bonus? The race that currently has a stam bonus on live? The one that's been a hybrid race since the single player games? The race that had something of a noob trap baked in, with it's stam bonus while it's signature bonus was restricted to a single damage type?

Yeah, "always."

Turelus

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.

If you're not going for scores though why does it matter? You can still complete content, DPS is down yes but we're not talking tens of thousands.
If you care about the damage your character does keep chasing the meta and switch, if you care about playing a race because you like a race then keep playing that race.

People are being insanely hyperbolic with some of their posting as if ZOS has made them lose 30K DPS with these changes. There are plenty of other nerfs which have happened which had bigger impacts on DPS than these racial changes did and people are still kicking butt with their characters.

VaranisArano

ZOS changing class, builds, gear, and race is built into ESO ever since One Tamriel. Its called horizontal progression, where they change the meta and players chase after the meta in a neverending cycle of "balance" changes that never stop coming.

Your options are as follows.
1. Chase the meta and do what you have to. Change race if needed.
2. Accept that you won't be meta, that you'll perform slightly less well than the meta, and be content with that.
3. Quit. This neverending cycle of meta and balance changes is working as intended and wont stop anytime soon.

I've gone for method #2, not chasing the meta and being content to not compete with those who do for top tier play or parses.

RedTalon

Need more nerfs really, its nerf or nothing!

So far none of the changes will greatly effect me, though glad ww are having their bleed on light attacks fixed a, among other things

Just change your play style and realized just your style with that race has been nerfed

Have a good one folks

AngelaWasp

Vahrokh wrote: »

In every MMO I play (since before 2000) I play a magicka based DPS, usually a mage. I love Dark Elves (Baldur's Gate times!).

(This is entirely a PvE oriented post).

When ESO beta started, I rolled a Dunmer Magicka Sorceress, of course.
I had tons of great time and epic moments with her.


I have invested INNUMERABLE hours on her. Purchased all sorts of crown store stuff to make her better.

I don't care if I get a free race change token. I want to play my character AS IS, as it's always done for 5 years!

Is it asking too much?

Thank you for putting into words so eloquently exactly how I feel about having invested so much in a character that the idea of blowing her identity away with a free race change token is completely out of the question. I am certain that there are many others who feel the same way too, For example, I have friends in the game who play Magicka Dunmer characters, who don't use this forum and who also definitely wouldn't want to make a race change.

IzzyStardust

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

In my guild’s discord they are saying that Khajiit will translate to roughly 2k more dps.

I don’t want to have to play an animal type race.

I’m still waiting it out to see what happens - but for now, I’m not really happy so far.

Which translates to <16k more group DPS on the hardest core raid...hardly enough to warrant forced change.

Even so - people will do it anyway. (And you know it!)

shaielzafine

Agree with OP. It doesn't even matter if I'm going for leaderboard runs or not, or if I'm going into PvP or not. Why are we even doing nerf roulettes anyway? They said they changed racials because one race was overperforming at doing some things, and some are more suited than others. Well, with the changes they're doing now, Khajiit is still going to be overperforming at magdps compared to let's say, Nord. What are we doing race changes for, then? This is a balancing problem that they're trying to fix, and yet it doesn't seem that it will actually fix it? Bretons, high elfs, redguards are fine, and can continue being buffed even probably. The community so far has been divided over the whole race change topic, what for? So the racial passives can be shuffled around? Lore wise the races already seemed fine to me, the first time I logged on to ESO and went into character creator, the racials seemed consistent with what I knew from Elder Scrolls over the years. So why are they doing this stuff now?

IzzyStardust

Turelus wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.

If you're not going for scores though why does it matter? You can still complete content, DPS is down yes but we're not talking tens of thousands.
If you care about the damage your character does keep chasing the meta and switch, if you care about playing a race because you like a race then keep playing that race.

People are being insanely hyperbolic with some of their posting as if ZOS has made them lose 30K DPS with these changes. There are plenty of other nerfs which have happened which had bigger impacts on DPS than these racial changes did and people are still kicking butt with their characters.

Well it doesn’t matter TO YOU but it matters a lot to some people and that should be just as ok as it not mattering to you. Right?

Arrodisia

@ OP Next it will be your wallet, and then your underwear...........;)

IzzyStardust

Tigerseye wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

In my guild’s discord they are saying that Khajiit will translate to roughly 2k more dps.

I don’t want to have to play an animal type race.

I’m still waiting it out to see what happens - but for now, I’m not really happy so far.

Which translates to <16k more group DPS on the hardest core raid...hardly enough to warrant forced change.

That's not how min/maxers look at things, though.

Even if someone decides to stick with a less than optimal race, other people are less likely to take them into hard content, given the choice.

That is just the way it is.

I'm not condoning it, it's just a fact.

That is why balance in MMOs is so important.

So very much this! It is exactly this way.

I think sometimes because of all the different levels of play represented in the forums, understanding each other can be tricky.

If I speak about anything it’s from my perspective based on what I play and with whom.

Other folks’ perspectives will be different depending on what they play and with whom.

mxxo

Turelus wrote: »

TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

Stop telling players to just accept nerfs. "I'm not going for score" is no reason to just be fine with just waking up one day and finding out you're X percentage weaker.

If you're not going for scores though why does it matter? You can still complete content, DPS is down yes but we're not talking tens of thousands.
If you care about the damage your character does keep chasing the meta and switch, if you care about playing a race because you like a race then keep playing that race.

People are being insanely hyperbolic with some of their posting as if ZOS has made them lose 30K DPS with these changes. There are plenty of other nerfs which have happened which had bigger impacts on DPS than these racial changes did and people are still kicking butt with their characters.

Very onesided opinion for a Community Ambassador.

Vahrokh

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

I am going for leaderboard scores and I don't like to be "tolerated" in a hm trial.

The "player skill factor" should never be factored in when doing class balance. So what, I am as good as my team mates but I am forced to perform worse anyway.