Maintenance for the week of September 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 14:00 UTC (10:00AM EDT)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 14:00 UTC (10:00AM EDT)
So Liko did a complete Magicka DPS racial test. Check results here and stop spreading misinformation
nsmurfer
✭✭✭✭✭
This is a group buffed dps test so solo number would be variably lesser. Check out https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown/p1 by @susmitds for solo DPS numbers.
GUESS, who is on top.
Dunmer.... followed by Breton, Khajiit and Altmer.
Averages!
This is surprisingly in line with the statistical tests @susmitds has made.
As so many people wanted data by a well known player , well here's one for you. Go ahead and stop the misinformation.
Edited by nsmurfer on January 23, 2019 12:00PM 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwAsgDwnALwGUESS, who is on top.
Dunmer.... followed by Breton, Khajiit and Altmer.
Averages!
This is surprisingly in line with the statistical tests @susmitds has made.
As so many people wanted data by a well known player , well here's one for you. Go ahead and stop the misinformation.
59
-
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah, thanks for doing that. my mediocre parses weren't enough evidence for people.
As I said I was sceptical when I read the notes then I tested it and it was fine and I stopped complaining.
5 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is no sense at all that dumner outdps Altmers, Altmers have more max magicka and better sustain. These are different attempts at dps parses could be a perfect parse or could have some slight mistakes.
It needs to be done over a sample of at least 10 parses each and the average is compared30 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Great information here. I appreciate all the efforts you testers are doing in curbing misinformation and hysteria.
Sadly, this probably won't stop the "RIP (insert race here)" posts from popping up."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."5 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭14k dps just by light attacks and still ppl cant reach 5k dps with all skills and more.
Wow....
12 -
xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yea. you can take thos always with a margin-
Generally, races are close together. Now do the same with DK, sorc etc :P2 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »There is no sense at all that dumner outdps Altmers, Altmers have more max magicka and better sustain. These are different attempts at dps parses could be a perfect parse or could have some slight mistakes.
It needs to be done over a sample of at least 10 parses each and the average is compared
I did those myself and I will confirm that my results are very similar.
As for what you say, 750 magicka is not very significant in the grand scheme of DPS. In raids, group support will cover your back for sustain needs, so sustain becomes insignificant. The results in all cases come ridiculously close to each other. I personally did 20 tests for each race and randomly selected 5 for each to get a more standard result and it is quite the same.7 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is a group buffed dps test so solo number would be variably lesser. Check out https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/454707/race-pve-dps-difference-tests-for-both-stamina-and-magicka-results-and-graphical-breakdown/p1 by @susmitds for solo DPS numbers.
GUESS, who is on top.
Dunmer.... followed by Breton, Khajiit and Altmer.
This is surprisingly in line with the statistical tests @susmitds has made.
As so many people wanted data by a well known player , well here's one for you. Go ahead and stop the misinformation.
You are joking? tell me please how altmer has worse results then dunmer, when altmer stats are plainly better? i mean altmer have exactly the same stats as dunmer + 750 magicka and + good sustain. It just shows that all this parses are kinda random.21 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭This thread itself is misinformation (or incomplete information) --Bigevilpeter wrote: »There is no sense at all that dumner outdps Altmers, Altmers have more max magicka and better sustain. These are different attempts at dps parses could be a perfect parse or could have some slight mistakes.
It needs to be done over a sample of at least 10 parses each and the average is comparedxMovingTarget wrote: »Yea. you can take thos always with a margin-
Generally, races are close together. Now do the same with DK, sorc etc :P
Exactly, an average taken from x parses for each class per race is the only real statistical analysis that means anything.
8 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »There is no sense at all that dumner outdps Altmers, Altmers have more max magicka and better sustain. These are different attempts at dps parses could be a perfect parse or could have some slight mistakes.
It needs to be done over a sample of at least 10 parses each and the average is compared
I did those myself and I will confirm that my results are very similar.
As for what you say, 750 magicka is not very significant in the grand scheme of DPS. In raids, group support will cover your back for sustain needs, so sustain becomes insignificant. The results in all cases come ridiculously close to each other. I personally did 20 tests for each race and randomly selected 5 for each to get a more standard result and it is quite the same.
yes the difference should be small, but in 2 exactly the same parses Altmer will get a tiny damage boost over Dunmers, these resutls show dunmer outdpsing everything else which in itself is misinformation.
Also sustain will be easier on altmer, so slightly more dps and better sustain if a players has fewer external sustain sourcesEdited by Bigevilpeter on January 23, 2019 11:49AM5 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The difference from "best" (Dunmer) to "worst" (Altmer) is 1,8k DPS which is a difference of ~ 2-3% - almost nothing.
Oh and Khajiit isn't the best Magicka DPS? I heard the sky is falling and everybody has to be Khajiit now... and that Dunmer was totally destroyed.
I hope we can finally put this absurd discussion to rest. ZOS seems to have done a great job balancing the "Magicka" races.
PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -18 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭For those who want a statistical analysis check out one alrady in the forums. This is to show people who said certain races are better just because Liko did one random test and got a better result on one non-meta race compared to meta races upsetting the meta chasers. This just shows that the numbers are very close and all races can perform great.7
-
Aluneth✭✭✭✭Now I am in no way a math genius, but my simple brain is having a hard time understanding how 750 magicka more can be dealing less damage. I'm fine with us ignoring the sustain bonus that Altmers get in a raid environment, but how does 1250 magicka and 258 spell damage deal more damage than 2000 magicka and 258 spell damage.Edited by Aluneth on January 23, 2019 11:52AM20
-
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The funny thing is the Average Joe - who can't even reach 25k DPS, let alone 60k - is completely losing his mind over the changes when all these tests show the races come very close.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.30 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »Bigevilpeter wrote: »There is no sense at all that dumner outdps Altmers, Altmers have more max magicka and better sustain. These are different attempts at dps parses could be a perfect parse or could have some slight mistakes.
It needs to be done over a sample of at least 10 parses each and the average is compared
I did those myself and I will confirm that my results are very similar.
As for what you say, 750 magicka is not very significant in the grand scheme of DPS. In raids, group support will cover your back for sustain needs, so sustain becomes insignificant. The results in all cases come ridiculously close to each other. I personally did 20 tests for each race and randomly selected 5 for each to get a more standard result and it is quite the same.
yes the difference should be small, but in 2 exactly the same parses Altmer will get a tiny damage boost over Dunmers, these resutls show dunmer outdpsing everything else which in itself is misinformation.
Also sustain will be easier on altmer, so slightly more dps and better sustain if a players has fewer external sustain sources
Yeah, I agree on that. My tests showed Breton on top followed Altmer Khajiit and Dunmer on the magicka side. Dunmer has a very good chance of coming out on top for stamina side though if under constant Orb and Shard though.0 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Now I am in no way a math genious, but my simple brain is having a hard time understanding how 750 magicka more can be dealing less damage. I'm fine with us ignoring the sustain bonus that Altmers get in a raid environment, but how does 1250 magicka and 258 spell damage deal more damage than 1250 magicka and 258 spell damage.
exactly my point, there is no way Dunmer would havr higher dps than Altmer, these are just different attempts and the one with the dunmer was a very lucky attempt. The difference should be small but altmers are better than dunmers as magicka DDs its just basic kindergarden math11 -
xMovingTarget✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I still have to change my NB from altmer to xxx :P Magblade is boring. And zos should be ashamed of making that class the best in dps.
Buff DK when?3 -
HappyLittleTree✭✭✭✭✭
✭Where's argonian? No data is relevant until argonians are included!
#ArgonianLivesMatterEdited by HappyLittleTree on January 23, 2019 12:16PMThuu chakkuth lod Hajhiit c’oo? Hajhiit gortsuquth gorihuth thuu gooluthduj thdeitoluu!
XBox-EU0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »Now I am in no way a math genious, but my simple brain is having a hard time understanding how 750 magicka more can be dealing less damage. I'm fine with us ignoring the sustain bonus that Altmers get in a raid environment, but how does 1250 magicka and 258 spell damage deal more damage than 1250 magicka and 258 spell damage.
exactly my point, there is no way Dunmer would havr higher dps than Altmer, these are just different attempts and the one with the dunmer was a very lucky attempt. The difference should be small but altmers are better than dunmers as magicka DDs its just basic kindergarden math
In my understanding from the discussion, the key is how good the group provides sustain.
Dunmer have higher raw damage potential, but bad sustain compared to Altmer. So if all their sustain needs are met and the Dunmer best rotation is used, a dunmer (or a Khajiit) can out damage the Altmer. However, if that's not the case, the higher sustain and more forgiving rotation of the Altmer wins out.
So in that sense, it depends on your group and your testing conditions.0 -
Cadbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The funny thing is the Average Joe - who can't even reach 25k DPS, let alone 60k - is completely losing his mind over the changes when all these tests show the races come very close.
That's because some people are telling them to change to Khajiit ASAP as that will be the only viable race once U21 drops. And they're losing their spaghetti over it."If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."4 -
Aluneth✭✭✭✭
I'm sorry, I don't see it.
1.
1250 magicka
258 spell power
2.
2000 magicka
258 spell power
Where is the math? Where is the explanation? It's like saying that both computers are identical, with the exception of one having 500 more MHz, and the other one being faster.10 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »Now I am in no way a math genious, but my simple brain is having a hard time understanding how 750 magicka more can be dealing less damage. I'm fine with us ignoring the sustain bonus that Altmers get in a raid environment, but how does 1250 magicka and 258 spell damage deal more damage than 1250 magicka and 258 spell damage.
exactly my point, there is no way Dunmer would havr higher dps than Altmer, these are just different attempts and the one with the dunmer was a very lucky attempt. The difference should be small but altmers are better than dunmers as magicka DDs its just basic kindergarden math
Um, calm down.
I think the point is to show that races still won't make such a big deal. Lots of players on the forum were saying dark elf magicka users were dead. This shows they are clearly not.
It's not some attempt to "put Altmer in thier place" as you seem to be taking it.
It's not a negitive thing...yet you seem to be taking it that way.3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
First of all, build should be optimized for mentioned race and it's passives, including CP etc
Second - you know there is such thing like axiom. Axiom is that 4 > 3, 2000 > 1250. And if there might be debates on who is better - altmer, breton or khajiit, there are can't be debate that dunmer is plainly worse then altmer.5 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Parse is always a good deal of randomness (you can even see the share of crit damage varying between parses), can't always have perfectly repeatable results. Can only average over a lot of parses, so altmer can drop behind dunmer sometimes. But I would say that if the difference is already below "noise floor", that's a positive sign.7 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭Now I am in no way a math genius, but my simple brain is having a hard time understanding how 750 magicka more can be dealing less damage. I'm fine with us ignoring the sustain bonus that Altmers get in a raid environment, but how does 1250 magicka and 258 spell damage deal more damage than 2000 magicka and 258 spell damage.
Actually, if you look at the parses:
High Elf parse was 4s longer and had 3.4% less crits total, among other things such as bad top-end numbers with Assassins Will and Spell Strategist uptime (Not sure why).
If averages were done to balance out anomalies, it appears High Elf would indeed be stronger - Though not by much.Edited by BNOC on January 23, 2019 12:16PMvMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)6 -
Aluneth✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Parse is always a good deal of randomness (you can even see the share of crit damage varying between parses), can't always have perfectly repeatable results. Can only average over a lot of parses, so altmer can drop behind dunmer sometimes. But I would say that if the difference is already below "noise floor", that's a positive sign.
Optimal: Best or most favourable
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/optimal
If an Altmer with 2000 Magicka and 258 spell power had the perfect parse, and a Dunmer with 1250 Magicka and 258 spell power had the perfect parse, then the Altmer HAS to come out on top, or there is a flaw in the system (game).
Optimal: AltmerEdited by Aluneth on January 23, 2019 12:16PM7 -
HappyLittleTree✭✭✭✭✭
✭I still can't see Argonians.
how about them?
#ArgonianLivesMatterThuu chakkuth lod Hajhiit c’oo? Hajhiit gortsuquth gorihuth thuu gooluthduj thdeitoluu!
XBox-EU1
