First they came for my class. Then for my spec. And now for my race.

Ogou · January 2019

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Very onesided opinion for a Community Ambassador.

I have noticed that when we don't fall all over ourselves to agree with a viewpoint, that our role is called into question. Here is a dose of reality, most people who play this game know that 1% to 2% does not matter. They pick and choose the race and class and to an extent the build for reasons that have nothing to do with the singular metric of DPS amounts. They play what they want for probably as many reasons as there are players.

Now the small percentage of people who do care about the ultimate nth degree of DPS will care about these changes. However, they picked a race solely for that extra 1 or 2% of DPS and will change their race just readily they change gear or skills. Is this an inconvience, sure. But it is not the end of the world. And, it is expected as balance changes have been happening in this game since May of 2014 and will be happening in the future as long as the servers are up. To think that things won't change is the unreasonable view.

The rest of us, in this community, will make a few tweaks as we have always done and play on with almost the same DPS we had before.

And monetizing that change = pay2win.

That is the difference.

If you cannot get it IN GAME and to get extra % you have to buy crowns (rather than redo skillpoints, remorph things, make or farm new gear etc); nope that's p2w plain and simple.

Think whatever you like and play or don't but that's the reality right there.

People like to call anything P2W nowadays. Again, you don't have to change your race. Altmer is still good, redguard is still good. The people who were going to change their race over this were going to change it discount or no. You're making a problem out of nothing. If you want to say that the changes were made specifically to force people to change their race then you're going to have to show something supporting that.

I’m not calling ‘anything’ pay to win.

I’m calling having to pay real money to put your character to the best possible race for your role after your own race that you chose and levelled and trained because it was best for your role was changed after the fact, pay to win because that’s exactly what it is.

It is not cosmetic, it literally makes a difference in min max builds and that’s precisely pay to win.

The moment people buy those tokens to change their race to get better passives; boom: pay to win.

I don’t have to prove it; if the changes go live and anyone has to pay for race change tokens, it’s already reality.

If you wanted to chase the meta then you knew you were at the mercy of any changes ZOS would introduce. The meta changes all the time and calling a rebalancing P2W is silly. Especially considering that most of the same races are still going to be on top.
And this is probably part of the reason why ZOS does not want to offer a class change token as I'm sure you'd call that P2W too.

IzzyStardust · January 2019

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

I’m not calling ‘anything’ pay to win.

I’m calling having to pay real money to put your character to the best possible race for your role after your own race that you chose and levelled and trained because it was best for your role was changed after the fact, pay to win because that’s exactly what it is.

It is not cosmetic, it literally makes a difference in min max builds and that’s precisely pay to win.

You can make a new character. Therefore, the thing being sold is not something that can only be acquired for $$$. Therefore, it's not "p2w". There is no exclusive advantage, only obtainable by actual cash.

(and heck, can race change tokens be gotten via crown store gifting for gold? Then it's even less p2w, since it's not restricted to people with cash.)

I was going to say that my original post said this toes the absolute line - because yes - you are correct in that you can level a whole new character - and do alllll that again - and then have it.

So that’s a fair assessment but not a fair practise and we all know that.

Your final point though, not really as someone bought those crowns and ZOS profits as a direct result of these changes.

As ever, I will wait and see - but yeah. This is the face of things right now.

IzzyStardust · January 2019

Ogou wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Very onesided opinion for a Community Ambassador.

I have noticed that when we don't fall all over ourselves to agree with a viewpoint, that our role is called into question. Here is a dose of reality, most people who play this game know that 1% to 2% does not matter. They pick and choose the race and class and to an extent the build for reasons that have nothing to do with the singular metric of DPS amounts. They play what they want for probably as many reasons as there are players.

Now the small percentage of people who do care about the ultimate nth degree of DPS will care about these changes. However, they picked a race solely for that extra 1 or 2% of DPS and will change their race just readily they change gear or skills. Is this an inconvience, sure. But it is not the end of the world. And, it is expected as balance changes have been happening in this game since May of 2014 and will be happening in the future as long as the servers are up. To think that things won't change is the unreasonable view.

The rest of us, in this community, will make a few tweaks as we have always done and play on with almost the same DPS we had before.

And monetizing that change = pay2win.

That is the difference.

If you cannot get it IN GAME and to get extra % you have to buy crowns (rather than redo skillpoints, remorph things, make or farm new gear etc); nope that's p2w plain and simple.

Think whatever you like and play or don't but that's the reality right there.

People like to call anything P2W nowadays. Again, you don't have to change your race. Altmer is still good, redguard is still good. The people who were going to change their race over this were going to change it discount or no. You're making a problem out of nothing. If you want to say that the changes were made specifically to force people to change their race then you're going to have to show something supporting that.

I’m not calling ‘anything’ pay to win.

I’m calling having to pay real money to put your character to the best possible race for your role after your own race that you chose and levelled and trained because it was best for your role was changed after the fact, pay to win because that’s exactly what it is.

It is not cosmetic, it literally makes a difference in min max builds and that’s precisely pay to win.

The moment people buy those tokens to change their race to get better passives; boom: pay to win.

I don’t have to prove it; if the changes go live and anyone has to pay for race change tokens, it’s already reality.

If you wanted to chase the meta then you knew you were at the mercy of any changes ZOS would introduce. The meta changes all the time and calling a rebalancing P2W is silly. Especially considering that most of the same races are still going to be on top.
And this is probably part of the reason why ZOS does not want to offer a class change token as I'm sure you'd call that P2W too.

Please don’t try to bait me. I’ve played a magblade since before they were called that on a Dark Elf and a MagDK before they were callled that on a Dark Elf.

To this point no nerfs or passives changes have been mitigated by buying a token.

I know it, you know it, it’s known.

There are no class changes - we can burn that bridge when we get to it.

Finally I am still saying that the only disdain I have toward any of it rests with ZOS.

No one else.

Arrodisia · January 2019

ZOS changing race stats for profit is a disgraceful and greedy business move. Balancing is one of the many services they work to improve for us. It's their job, amongst others. We already paid our money for ESO PLUS, DLC's, Expansions....... So ZOS can pay the devs to make these things happen. So, why are we getting the bill again for this? We can accept change just fine, if it's truly balanced in the end, and we aren't being charged for it. There are still lackluster racials and OP racials here so far, not to mention it's going to cost the player base.

Also, some people are losing sight of the whole picture. This, actually, impacts both meta and non meta players. They created these passives specifically to buff people, to give them an edge over the enemies they face. Now they're switching it to have players pay to get the edge back, and/or to get the race they originally wanted, but felt too punished to take due to their imbalance.

We aren't talking about regearing or abilities getting switched up for gold and farming. We're talking about real money to buy a racial buff in this case. When a player buys that racial buff, it doesn't matter if it is 1% or 50%, it is still a buff to his advantage which impacts raw output. It's, also, paid for with cash, not gold, currently. This means, if another player doesn't pay cash for that buff, he won't have it, because it isn't available in the game for all of his chars to purchase for gold or to obtain through combat. It is the very definition of P2W. You can wrap it up in a pretty package of different words with bows all you like to make yourself feel better, but it's still shady, and it's still P2W. Also, creating all new chars isn't a realistic option for a lot of players, who have all slots full either. It's is flat out wrong to charge money instead of some small pitance of gold for race/name tokens upon a balance change, because it needs to be accessible to "all player's characters" not just for meta players, not just for cash shop players, and not just for people with open char slots.

Whenever they rebalanced skills we got either free resets, or we got the changes for 1 gold for point. So the changes would be accessible to all. Now they think they can resell us balance changes, because they got greedy eyes. We didn't create the imbalance? They could've balanced it better last time. So the races stayed close together, but they didn't. They might not get balance right, but they somehow know how to shut these threads down over and over to avoid hearing about how wrong this is.

Zos is dangling the meta carrot, and the non meta(you can now have the race you always wanted, but were too punished to have) carrot in player's faces.YOur gripe should be with ZOS not your fellow players. Your fellow players aren't recharging the player base for balance, ZOS is. If ZOS pulls this off, they'll do it again and again, each time getting worse and worse.

Can we please respect people's opinions and decisions here without bashing them or telling them what to do? It's up to each individual player whether they change their race of not. No one here has the right to tell another player how to play, or what to play, or if they should accept this BS or not.Players have a right to voice their complaints, and opinions here. They're paying for this game too. Live and let live. Zos can defend themselves. They want all of this feedback anyway. Otherwise, they can't rectify things like this that bother the players.

IzzyStardust · January 2019

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS changing race stats for profit is a disgraceful and greedy business move. Balancing is one of the many services they work to improve for us. It's their job, amongst others. We already paid our money for ESO PLUS, DLC's, Expansions....... So ZOS can pay the devs to make these things happen. So, why are we getting the bill again for this? We can accept change just fine, if it's truly balanced in the end, and we aren't being charged for it. There are still lackluster racials and OP racials here so far, not to mention it's going to cost the player base.

Also, some people are losing sight of the whole picture. This, actually, impacts both meta and non meta players. They created these passives specifically to buff people, to give them an edge over the enemies they face. Now they're switching it to have players pay to get the edge back, and/or to get the race they originally wanted, but felt too punished to take due to their imbalance.

We aren't talking about regearing or abilities getting switched up for gold and farming. We're taking about real money to buy a racial buff in this case. When a player buys that racial buff, it doesn't matter if it is 1% or 50%, it is still a buff to his advantage which impacts raw output. It's, also, paid for with cash, not gold, currently. This means, if another player doesn't pay cash for that buff, he won't have it, because it isn't available in the game for all of his chars to purchase for gold or to obtain through combat. It is the very definition of P2W. You can wrap it up in a pretty package of different words with bows all you like to make yourself feel better, but it's still shady, and it's still P2W. Also, creating all new chars isn't a realistic option for a lot of players, who have all slots full either. It's is flat out wrong to charge money instead of some small pitance of gold for race/name tokens upon a balance change, because it needs to be accessible to "all player's characters" not just for meta players, not just for cash shop players, and not just for people with open char slots.

Whenever they rebalanced skills we got either free resets, or we got the changes for 1 gold for point. So the changes would be accessible to all. Now they think they can resell us balance changes, because they got greedy eyes. We didn't create the imbalance? They could've balanced it better last time. So the races stayed close together, but they didn't. They might not get balance right, but they somehow know how to shut these threads down over and over to avoid hearing about how wrong this is.

Zos is dangling the meta carrot, and the non meta(you can now have the race you always wanted, but were too punished to have) carrot in player's faces.YOur gripe should be with ZOS not your fellow players. Your fellow players aren't recharging the player base for balance, ZOS is. If ZOS pulls this off, they'll do it again and again, each time getting worse and worse.

Can we please respect people's opinions and decisions here without bashing them or telling them what to do? It's up to each individual player whether they change their race of not. No one here has the right to tell another player how to play, or what to play, or if they should accept this BS or not.Players have a right to voice their complaints, and opinions here. They're paying for this game too. Live and let live. Zos can defend themselves. They want all of this feedback. Otherwise, they can't rectify things like this that bother the players.

I agree 100% Very well written post, too!

Ogou · January 2019

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Very onesided opinion for a Community Ambassador.

I have noticed that when we don't fall all over ourselves to agree with a viewpoint, that our role is called into question. Here is a dose of reality, most people who play this game know that 1% to 2% does not matter. They pick and choose the race and class and to an extent the build for reasons that have nothing to do with the singular metric of DPS amounts. They play what they want for probably as many reasons as there are players.

Now the small percentage of people who do care about the ultimate nth degree of DPS will care about these changes. However, they picked a race solely for that extra 1 or 2% of DPS and will change their race just readily they change gear or skills. Is this an inconvience, sure. But it is not the end of the world. And, it is expected as balance changes have been happening in this game since May of 2014 and will be happening in the future as long as the servers are up. To think that things won't change is the unreasonable view.

The rest of us, in this community, will make a few tweaks as we have always done and play on with almost the same DPS we had before.

And monetizing that change = pay2win.

That is the difference.

If you cannot get it IN GAME and to get extra % you have to buy crowns (rather than redo skillpoints, remorph things, make or farm new gear etc); nope that's p2w plain and simple.

Think whatever you like and play or don't but that's the reality right there.

People like to call anything P2W nowadays. Again, you don't have to change your race. Altmer is still good, redguard is still good. The people who were going to change their race over this were going to change it discount or no. You're making a problem out of nothing. If you want to say that the changes were made specifically to force people to change their race then you're going to have to show something supporting that.

I’m not calling ‘anything’ pay to win.

I’m calling having to pay real money to put your character to the best possible race for your role after your own race that you chose and levelled and trained because it was best for your role was changed after the fact, pay to win because that’s exactly what it is.

It is not cosmetic, it literally makes a difference in min max builds and that’s precisely pay to win.

The moment people buy those tokens to change their race to get better passives; boom: pay to win.

I don’t have to prove it; if the changes go live and anyone has to pay for race change tokens, it’s already reality.

If you wanted to chase the meta then you knew you were at the mercy of any changes ZOS would introduce. The meta changes all the time and calling a rebalancing P2W is silly. Especially considering that most of the same races are still going to be on top.
And this is probably part of the reason why ZOS does not want to offer a class change token as I'm sure you'd call that P2W too.

Please don’t try to bait me. I’ve played a magblade since before they were called that on a Dark Elf and a MagDK before they were callled that on a Dark Elf.

To this point no nerfs or passives changes have been mitigated by buying a token.

I know it, you know it, it’s known.

There are no class changes - we can burn that bridge when we get to it.

Finally I am still saying that the only disdain I have toward any of it rests with ZOS.

No one else.

If you played them before they were meta then why would you change your race now?

No nerf or passives changes have been mitigated by tokens but significant buffs were behind DLC and chapter contents. If you wanted to be competitive you had to get Summerset for the Cloudrest sets. How is this any different?

I am not saying that the changes are good or that you need to accept them but claiming that this is P2W brings nothing to the discussion.

gp1680 · January 2019

Turelus wrote: »

Then keep playing it.

Unless you're going for some leaderboard score run the changes are not going to make your character unable to complete content. ESO is much more about player skill than min/max builds, if you've been playing for five years then you should have the experience to be able to do enough DPS for most groups without any worry what race/class/build changes happen.

This is an odd statement. If it’s not that noticeable, then why is ZOS even bothering with all of this? Why has ZOS been bothering with any of these changes if it doesn’t have an impact on the game? I’d submit it WILL have an impact on everyone, which is why they’re doing it. Maybe you should clarify that some may notice BUT NOT CARE. For those who have spent 5 years building and developing their chars, this kind of nerfing and shredding from update to update gets pretty tedious. Could it be that ZOS’s real reason for all of this is monetization? Hmmm...

Arrodisia · January 2019

Ogou wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Very onesided opinion for a Community Ambassador.

I have noticed that when we don't fall all over ourselves to agree with a viewpoint, that our role is called into question. Here is a dose of reality, most people who play this game know that 1% to 2% does not matter. They pick and choose the race and class and to an extent the build for reasons that have nothing to do with the singular metric of DPS amounts. They play what they want for probably as many reasons as there are players.

Now the small percentage of people who do care about the ultimate nth degree of DPS will care about these changes. However, they picked a race solely for that extra 1 or 2% of DPS and will change their race just readily they change gear or skills. Is this an inconvience, sure. But it is not the end of the world. And, it is expected as balance changes have been happening in this game since May of 2014 and will be happening in the future as long as the servers are up. To think that things won't change is the unreasonable view.

The rest of us, in this community, will make a few tweaks as we have always done and play on with almost the same DPS we had before.

And monetizing that change = pay2win.

That is the difference.

If you cannot get it IN GAME and to get extra % you have to buy crowns (rather than redo skillpoints, remorph things, make or farm new gear etc); nope that's p2w plain and simple.

Think whatever you like and play or don't but that's the reality right there.

People like to call anything P2W nowadays. Again, you don't have to change your race. Altmer is still good, redguard is still good. The people who were going to change their race over this were going to change it discount or no. You're making a problem out of nothing. If you want to say that the changes were made specifically to force people to change their race then you're going to have to show something supporting that.

I’m not calling ‘anything’ pay to win.

I’m calling having to pay real money to put your character to the best possible race for your role after your own race that you chose and levelled and trained because it was best for your role was changed after the fact, pay to win because that’s exactly what it is.

It is not cosmetic, it literally makes a difference in min max builds and that’s precisely pay to win.

The moment people buy those tokens to change their race to get better passives; boom: pay to win.

I don’t have to prove it; if the changes go live and anyone has to pay for race change tokens, it’s already reality.

If you wanted to chase the meta then you knew you were at the mercy of any changes ZOS would introduce. The meta changes all the time and calling a rebalancing P2W is silly. Especially considering that most of the same races are still going to be on top.
And this is probably part of the reason why ZOS does not want to offer a class change token as I'm sure you'd call that P2W too.

Please don’t try to bait me. I’ve played a magblade since before they were called that on a Dark Elf and a MagDK before they were callled that on a Dark Elf.

To this point no nerfs or passives changes have been mitigated by buying a token.

I know it, you know it, it’s known.

There are no class changes - we can burn that bridge when we get to it.

Finally I am still saying that the only disdain I have toward any of it rests with ZOS.

No one else.

If you played them before they were meta then why would you change your race now?

No nerf or passives changes have been mitigated by tokens but significant buffs were behind DLC and chapter contents. If you wanted to be competitive you had to get Summerset for the Cloudrest sets. How is this any different?

I am not saying that the changes are good or that you need to accept them but claiming that this is P2W brings nothing to the discussion.

Actually his point does bring something to the discussion if he and some other people see it as being true. There, actually, is some substance to what the players are complaining about here as well. This impacts all players directly and indirectly.

Seraphayel · January 2019

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually his point does bring something to the discussion if he and some other people see it as being true. There, actually, is some substance to what the players are complaining about here as well. This impacts all players directly and indirectly.

And that's why it really doesn't matter in the end.

It's not like they just touched one race and nerfed it to the ground, it was a well-rounded approach of bringing races closer together which - surprise surprise, nobody expected this - might have been achieved.

If you're arguing with race / class changes now, you could use that argument every time they change classes or races. Every time. And that's why the arguments are so flawed. This game is under constant development and ZOS owes us nothing in this regard. Usually I don't defend ZOS but in this case they did reasonable things which are completely normal for every MMORPG.

Arrodisia · January 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually his point does bring something to the discussion if he and some other people see it as being true. There, actually, is some substance to what the players are complaining about here as well. This impacts all players directly and indirectly.

And that's why it really doesn't matter in the end.

It's not like they just touched one race and nerfed it to the ground, it was a well-rounded approach of bringing races closer together which - surprise surprise, nobody expected this - might have been achieved.

If you're arguing with race / class changes now, you could use that argument every time they change classes or races. Every time. And that's why the arguments are so flawed. This game is under constant development and ZOS owes us nothing in this regard.

I'm not trying to be a pain or argue here. I'm just seeing this differently, according to the patch notes so far. Anyway, how is it well rounded when there are still clearly OP races and lackluster races? and the changes will cost people money? It isn't about need or meta or non meta players. everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. I stated this in my other comment a few posts back already in this thread.

Seraphayel · January 2019

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually his point does bring something to the discussion if he and some other people see it as being true. There, actually, is some substance to what the players are complaining about here as well. This impacts all players directly and indirectly.

And that's why it really doesn't matter in the end.

It's not like they just touched one race and nerfed it to the ground, it was a well-rounded approach of bringing races closer together which - surprise surprise, nobody expected this - might have been achieved.

If you're arguing with race / class changes now, you could use that argument every time they change classes or races. Every time. And that's why the arguments are so flawed. This game is under constant development and ZOS owes us nothing in this regard.

I'm not trying to be a pain or argue here. I'm just seeing this differently, according to the patch notes so far. Anyway, how is it well rounded when there are still clearly OP races and lackluster races? and the changes will cost people money? It isn't about need or meta or non meta players. everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. I stated this in my other comment a few posts back already in this thread.

No changes will cost people money. ZOS can make every change to races or classes they want to make. They're even offering one free race change (which they musn't do at all). Nobody is enforcing race changes but yourself. If you feel obliged to do them, do them. It's neither necessary nor mandatory.

Exactly, everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. That's why all of us are affected, positively or negatively - doesn't matter.

Who cares if there are OP races or lackluster races? That's normal. We have OP classes and lackluster classes, OP builds and lackluster builds. There is no obligation on ZOS side to make everything viable. Again, they owe us nothing in that regard.

Honestly, it don't have the right word for this attitude but I might call it "spoiled" - they're doing class changes every quarter, does that enforces them to offer us class changes everytime they do it? No, obviously not. The same counts towards race. By that logic ZOS had to offer a class/race change four times a year when they release a DLC/Chapter.

Arrodisia · January 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually his point does bring something to the discussion if he and some other people see it as being true. There, actually, is some substance to what the players are complaining about here as well. This impacts all players directly and indirectly.

And that's why it really doesn't matter in the end.

It's not like they just touched one race and nerfed it to the ground, it was a well-rounded approach of bringing races closer together which - surprise surprise, nobody expected this - might have been achieved.

If you're arguing with race / class changes now, you could use that argument every time they change classes or races. Every time. And that's why the arguments are so flawed. This game is under constant development and ZOS owes us nothing in this regard.

I'm not trying to be a pain or argue here. I'm just seeing this differently, according to the patch notes so far. Anyway, how is it well rounded when there are still clearly OP races and lackluster races? and the changes will cost people money? It isn't about need or meta or non meta players. everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. I stated this in my other comment a few posts back already in this thread.

No changes will cost people money. ZOS can make every change to races or classes they want to make. They're even offering one free race change (which they musn't do at all). Nobody is enforcing race changes but yourself. If you feel obliged to do them, do them. It's neither necessary nor mandatory.

Exactly, everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. That's why all of us are affected, positively or negatively - doesn't matter.

Who cares if there are OP races or lackluster races? That's normal. We have OP classes and lackluster classes, OP builds and lackluster builds. There is no obligation on ZOS side to make everything viable. Again, they owe us nothing in that regard.

Yes they will cost people money.
Yes they can change the races. I didn't say they couldn't. However, to change back to a meta char or to get the char you originally wanted to pick, but couldn't because it was too punishing you'll have to pay money. So either way it's pay real money or take the bs we gave you. well some of us don't want the bs and we're not afraid to ruffle the feathers and say it.

I'm not enforcing race changes. I don't know what you're on about there.

It most certainly does matter to some people if they are impacted or not and if the races are truly balanced or not. It also matters if they have 2 chars or all slots full if they'll want to change for one reason or the other. If someone choses not to change that's fine for him. this thread and all of the others wouldn't be here if none of these matters to the player base. It may not matter to you, but it matters to many others.

Seraphayel · January 2019

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually his point does bring something to the discussion if he and some other people see it as being true. There, actually, is some substance to what the players are complaining about here as well. This impacts all players directly and indirectly.

And that's why it really doesn't matter in the end.

It's not like they just touched one race and nerfed it to the ground, it was a well-rounded approach of bringing races closer together which - surprise surprise, nobody expected this - might have been achieved.

If you're arguing with race / class changes now, you could use that argument every time they change classes or races. Every time. And that's why the arguments are so flawed. This game is under constant development and ZOS owes us nothing in this regard.

I'm not trying to be a pain or argue here. I'm just seeing this differently, according to the patch notes so far. Anyway, how is it well rounded when there are still clearly OP races and lackluster races? and the changes will cost people money? It isn't about need or meta or non meta players. everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. I stated this in my other comment a few posts back already in this thread.

No changes will cost people money. ZOS can make every change to races or classes they want to make. They're even offering one free race change (which they musn't do at all). Nobody is enforcing race changes but yourself. If you feel obliged to do them, do them. It's neither necessary nor mandatory.

Exactly, everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. That's why all of us are affected, positively or negatively - doesn't matter.

Who cares if there are OP races or lackluster races? That's normal. We have OP classes and lackluster classes, OP builds and lackluster builds. There is no obligation on ZOS side to make everything viable. Again, they owe us nothing in that regard.

Yes they will cost people money.
Yes they can change the races. I didn't say they couldn't. However, to change back to a meta char or to get the char you originally wanted to pick but couldn't because it was too punishing you'll have to pay money.

I'm not enforcing race changes. I don't know what you're on about there.

It most certainly does matter to some people if they are impacted or not and if the races are truly balanced or not. It also matters if they have 2 chars or all slots full if they'll need to change for one reason or the other. If someone choses not to change that's fine for him. this thread and all of the others wouldn't be here if none of these matters to the player base.

Okay, let me rephrase it: it might matter for some/many players. That's fine, they have all the right to be angry, disappointed and to complain.

Nevertheless they neither have any obligation to spend any money to race change nor does ZOS owe them an unlimited amount of free race changes just because they chose to rework some of the racial passives. You see, every player is allowed to dislike the changes as much as ZOS is allowed to change classes/races all they want to.

IzzyStardust · January 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually his point does bring something to the discussion if he and some other people see it as being true. There, actually, is some substance to what the players are complaining about here as well. This impacts all players directly and indirectly.

And that's why it really doesn't matter in the end.

It's not like they just touched one race and nerfed it to the ground, it was a well-rounded approach of bringing races closer together which - surprise surprise, nobody expected this - might have been achieved.

If you're arguing with race / class changes now, you could use that argument every time they change classes or races. Every time. And that's why the arguments are so flawed. This game is under constant development and ZOS owes us nothing in this regard.

I'm not trying to be a pain or argue here. I'm just seeing this differently, according to the patch notes so far. Anyway, how is it well rounded when there are still clearly OP races and lackluster races? and the changes will cost people money? It isn't about need or meta or non meta players. everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. I stated this in my other comment a few posts back already in this thread.

No changes will cost people money. ZOS can make every change to races or classes they want to make. They're even offering one free race change (which they musn't do at all). Nobody is enforcing race changes but yourself. If you feel obliged to do them, do them. It's neither necessary nor mandatory.

Exactly, everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. That's why all of us are affected, positively or negatively - doesn't matter.

Who cares if there are OP races or lackluster races? That's normal. We have OP classes and lackluster classes, OP builds and lackluster builds. There is no obligation on ZOS side to make everything viable. Again, they owe us nothing in that regard.

Yes they will cost people money.
Yes they can change the races. I didn't say they couldn't. However, to change back to a meta char or to get the char you originally wanted to pick but couldn't because it was too punishing you'll have to pay money.

I'm not enforcing race changes. I don't know what you're on about there.

It most certainly does matter to some people if they are impacted or not and if the races are truly balanced or not. It also matters if they have 2 chars or all slots full if they'll need to change for one reason or the other. If someone choses not to change that's fine for him. this thread and all of the others wouldn't be here if none of these matters to the player base.

Okay, let me rephrase it: it might matter for some/many players. That's fine, they have all the right to be angry, disappointed and to complain.

Nevertheless they neither have any obligation to spend any money to race change nor does ZOS owe them an unlimited amount of free race changes just because they chose to rework some of the racial passives. You see, every player is allowed to dislike the changes as much as ZOS is allowed to change classes/races all they want to.

And no one ever debated that.

Seraphayel · January 2019

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually his point does bring something to the discussion if he and some other people see it as being true. There, actually, is some substance to what the players are complaining about here as well. This impacts all players directly and indirectly.

And that's why it really doesn't matter in the end.

It's not like they just touched one race and nerfed it to the ground, it was a well-rounded approach of bringing races closer together which - surprise surprise, nobody expected this - might have been achieved.

If you're arguing with race / class changes now, you could use that argument every time they change classes or races. Every time. And that's why the arguments are so flawed. This game is under constant development and ZOS owes us nothing in this regard.

I'm not trying to be a pain or argue here. I'm just seeing this differently, according to the patch notes so far. Anyway, how is it well rounded when there are still clearly OP races and lackluster races? and the changes will cost people money? It isn't about need or meta or non meta players. everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. I stated this in my other comment a few posts back already in this thread.

No changes will cost people money. ZOS can make every change to races or classes they want to make. They're even offering one free race change (which they musn't do at all). Nobody is enforcing race changes but yourself. If you feel obliged to do them, do them. It's neither necessary nor mandatory.

Exactly, everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. That's why all of us are affected, positively or negatively - doesn't matter.

Who cares if there are OP races or lackluster races? That's normal. We have OP classes and lackluster classes, OP builds and lackluster builds. There is no obligation on ZOS side to make everything viable. Again, they owe us nothing in that regard.

Yes they will cost people money.
Yes they can change the races. I didn't say they couldn't. However, to change back to a meta char or to get the char you originally wanted to pick but couldn't because it was too punishing you'll have to pay money.

I'm not enforcing race changes. I don't know what you're on about there.

It most certainly does matter to some people if they are impacted or not and if the races are truly balanced or not. It also matters if they have 2 chars or all slots full if they'll need to change for one reason or the other. If someone choses not to change that's fine for him. this thread and all of the others wouldn't be here if none of these matters to the player base.

Okay, let me rephrase it: it might matter for some/many players. That's fine, they have all the right to be angry, disappointed and to complain.

Nevertheless they neither have any obligation to spend any money to race change nor does ZOS owe them an unlimited amount of free race changes just because they chose to rework some of the racial passives. You see, every player is allowed to dislike the changes as much as ZOS is allowed to change classes/races all they want to.

And no one ever debated that.

Then what's all the fuzz about if no one ever debated that?

ZOS applies changes which is normal in any MMORPG: check.

Players like/dislike the changes: check.

ZOS offers a free race change per account which they mustn't do at all: check.

Players can change their race for free, for tokens or start a new character: check.

Neither ZOS nor the game by itself enforces anybody to race change: check.

Where is the problem? If players feel obliged to race change because players feel obliged by other players to do so it's their fault and nobody else's. First and foremost it's not ZOS fault if a part of the community enforces this min-maxing meta playstyle especially not when all races were brought closer together than before.

Arrodisia · January 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually his point does bring something to the discussion if he and some other people see it as being true. There, actually, is some substance to what the players are complaining about here as well. This impacts all players directly and indirectly.

And that's why it really doesn't matter in the end.

It's not like they just touched one race and nerfed it to the ground, it was a well-rounded approach of bringing races closer together which - surprise surprise, nobody expected this - might have been achieved.

If you're arguing with race / class changes now, you could use that argument every time they change classes or races. Every time. And that's why the arguments are so flawed. This game is under constant development and ZOS owes us nothing in this regard.

I'm not trying to be a pain or argue here. I'm just seeing this differently, according to the patch notes so far. Anyway, how is it well rounded when there are still clearly OP races and lackluster races? and the changes will cost people money? It isn't about need or meta or non meta players. everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. I stated this in my other comment a few posts back already in this thread.

No changes will cost people money. ZOS can make every change to races or classes they want to make. They're even offering one free race change (which they musn't do at all). Nobody is enforcing race changes but yourself. If you feel obliged to do them, do them. It's neither necessary nor mandatory.

Exactly, everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. That's why all of us are affected, positively or negatively - doesn't matter.

Who cares if there are OP races or lackluster races? That's normal. We have OP classes and lackluster classes, OP builds and lackluster builds. There is no obligation on ZOS side to make everything viable. Again, they owe us nothing in that regard.

Yes they will cost people money.
Yes they can change the races. I didn't say they couldn't. However, to change back to a meta char or to get the char you originally wanted to pick but couldn't because it was too punishing you'll have to pay money.

I'm not enforcing race changes. I don't know what you're on about there.

It most certainly does matter to some people if they are impacted or not and if the races are truly balanced or not. It also matters if they have 2 chars or all slots full if they'll need to change for one reason or the other. If someone choses not to change that's fine for him. this thread and all of the others wouldn't be here if none of these matters to the player base.

Okay, let me rephrase it: it might matter for some/many players. That's fine, they have all the right to be angry, disappointed and to complain.

Nevertheless they neither have any obligation to spend any money to race change nor does ZOS owe them an unlimited amount of free race changes just because they chose to rework some of the racial passives. You see, every player is allowed to dislike the changes as much as ZOS is allowed to change classes/races all they want to.

and this is where we see it differently than you. We don't say they owe it to us. WE don't say they have to do.... but we say we believe it is the right thing to do. I'll snip from my previous comment to explain why, so as not to waste time rewriting.

ZOS changing race stats for profit is a disgraceful and greedy business move. Balancing is one of the many services they work to improve for us. It's their job, amongst others. We already paid our money for ESO PLUS, DLC's, Expansions....... So ZOS can pay the devs to make these things happen. So, why are we getting the bill again for this? We can accept change just fine, if it's truly balanced in the end, and we aren't being charged for it. There are still lackluster racials and OP racials here so far, not to mention it's going to cost the player base.

Also, some people are losing sight of the whole picture. This, actually, impacts both meta and non meta players. They created these passives specifically to buff people, to give them an edge over the enemies they face. Now they're switching it to have players pay to get the edge back, and/or to get the race they originally wanted, but felt too punished to take due to their imbalance.

We aren't talking about regearing or abilities getting switched up for gold and farming. We're talking about real money to buy a racial buff in this case. When a player buys that racial buff, it doesn't matter if it is 1% or 50%, it is still a buff to his advantage which impacts raw output. It's, also, paid for with cash, not gold, currently. This means, if another player doesn't pay cash for that buff, he won't have it, because it isn't available in the game for all of his chars to purchase for gold or to obtain through combat. It is the very definition of P2W. You can wrap it up in a pretty package of different words with bows all you like to make yourself feel better, but it's still shady, and it's still P2W. Also, creating all new chars isn't a realistic option for a lot of players, who have all slots full either. It's is flat out wrong to charge money instead of some small pitance of gold for race/name tokens upon a balance change, because it needs to be accessible to "all player's characters" not just for meta players, not just for cash shop players, and not just for people with open char slots.

Whenever they rebalanced skills we got either free resets, or we got the changes for 1 gold for point. So the changes would be accessible to all. Now they think they can resell us balance changes, because they got greedy eyes. We didn't create the imbalance? They could've balanced it better last time. So the races stayed close together, but they didn't. They might not get balance right, but they somehow know how to shut these threads down over and over to avoid hearing about how wrong this is.

Zos is dangling the meta carrot, and the non meta(you can now have the race you always wanted, but were too punished to have) carrot in player's faces.YOur gripe should be with ZOS not your fellow players. Your fellow players aren't recharging the player base for balance, ZOS is. If ZOS pulls this off, they'll do it again and again, each time getting worse and worse.

Can we please respect people's opinions and decisions here without bashing them or telling them what to do? It's up to each individual player whether they change their race of not. No one here has the right to tell another player how to play, or what to play, or if they should accept this BS or not.Players have a right to voice their complaints, and opinions here. They're paying for this game too. Live and let live. Zos can defend themselves. They want all of this feedback anyway. Otherwise, they can't rectify things like this that bother the players.

IzzyStardust · January 2019

Ogou wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

mxxo wrote: »

Very onesided opinion for a Community Ambassador.

I have noticed that when we don't fall all over ourselves to agree with a viewpoint, that our role is called into question. Here is a dose of reality, most people who play this game know that 1% to 2% does not matter. They pick and choose the race and class and to an extent the build for reasons that have nothing to do with the singular metric of DPS amounts. They play what they want for probably as many reasons as there are players.

Now the small percentage of people who do care about the ultimate nth degree of DPS will care about these changes. However, they picked a race solely for that extra 1 or 2% of DPS and will change their race just readily they change gear or skills. Is this an inconvience, sure. But it is not the end of the world. And, it is expected as balance changes have been happening in this game since May of 2014 and will be happening in the future as long as the servers are up. To think that things won't change is the unreasonable view.

The rest of us, in this community, will make a few tweaks as we have always done and play on with almost the same DPS we had before.

And monetizing that change = pay2win.

That is the difference.

If you cannot get it IN GAME and to get extra % you have to buy crowns (rather than redo skillpoints, remorph things, make or farm new gear etc); nope that's p2w plain and simple.

Think whatever you like and play or don't but that's the reality right there.

People like to call anything P2W nowadays. Again, you don't have to change your race. Altmer is still good, redguard is still good. The people who were going to change their race over this were going to change it discount or no. You're making a problem out of nothing. If you want to say that the changes were made specifically to force people to change their race then you're going to have to show something supporting that.

I’m not calling ‘anything’ pay to win.

I’m calling having to pay real money to put your character to the best possible race for your role after your own race that you chose and levelled and trained because it was best for your role was changed after the fact, pay to win because that’s exactly what it is.

It is not cosmetic, it literally makes a difference in min max builds and that’s precisely pay to win.

The moment people buy those tokens to change their race to get better passives; boom: pay to win.

I don’t have to prove it; if the changes go live and anyone has to pay for race change tokens, it’s already reality.

If you wanted to chase the meta then you knew you were at the mercy of any changes ZOS would introduce. The meta changes all the time and calling a rebalancing P2W is silly. Especially considering that most of the same races are still going to be on top.
And this is probably part of the reason why ZOS does not want to offer a class change token as I'm sure you'd call that P2W too.

Please don’t try to bait me. I’ve played a magblade since before they were called that on a Dark Elf and a MagDK before they were callled that on a Dark Elf.

To this point no nerfs or passives changes have been mitigated by buying a token.

I know it, you know it, it’s known.

There are no class changes - we can burn that bridge when we get to it.

Finally I am still saying that the only disdain I have toward any of it rests with ZOS.

No one else.

If you played them before they were meta then why would you change your race now?

No nerf or passives changes have been mitigated by tokens but significant buffs were behind DLC and chapter contents. If you wanted to be competitive you had to get Summerset for the Cloudrest sets. How is this any different?

I am not saying that the changes are good or that you need to accept them but claiming that this is P2W brings nothing to the discussion.

First of all; I wouldn’t and I’ve already said that repeatedly. I’ll shelve my Magblade - and I already converted my MagDK to a Tank the last time they gutted DK.

The fact that you even ask this tells me that you and I aren’t playing the game the same way at all. That’s ok and nothing wrong with it, but I don’t think that you and I are coming from the same baseline.

That’s ok too.

However - I’m going to step out of this conversation now because going further when we’re not coming from the same perspective at all is basically pointless.

Have a great day/evening!

Kiralyn2000 · January 2019

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS changing race stats for profit is a disgraceful and greedy business move.

Assuming that they're changing the racials deliberately to sell race change tokens (as opposed to, say, changing the balance in the game) is approaching tinfoil-hat territory.

We already paid our money for ESO PLUS, DLC's, Expansions....... So ZOS can pay the devs to make these things happen. So, why are we getting the bill again for this?

So some people being obsessive about 'chasing the meta', it's the devs fault? They need to never make any meaningful change to things, because it'll drive min-maxers to spend $? That's nuts.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO · January 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

Where is the problem? If players feel obliged to race change because players feel obliged by other players to do so it's their fault and nobody else's. First and foremost it's not ZOS fault if a part of the community enforces this min-maxing meta playstyle especially not when all races were brought closer together than before.

The problem is in their head unfortunately. And instead of trying to seek some help, they pest everyone else whats right or wrong.

See the other discussion about the enchantments. Already there are demands from DDs that all Tanks should get an ice staff to apply proper crushing and stop using S&B on second bar.
We talk here about less than 590 armour debuff, that could barely make a whole trial faster by 1 second. Which is less than the time wasted when the DDs running around pulling bosses because of impatience.

As I said. When tanking, if someone complains is either kicked or I leave. Let them waste 1 hour on EU server to find another tank that will save them 1 second

hhahahahahahahaha

Seraphayel · January 2019

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS changing race stats for profit is a disgraceful and greedy business move.

Assuming that they're changing the racials deliberately to sell race change tokens (as opposed to, say, changing the balance in the game) is approaching tinfoil-hat territory.

It really is and this is so absurd.

Granted, putting the race changes tokens on sale one day before the announced changes were put onto the forums was a very cheap choice and could be seen as misleading due to ZOS history when it comes to the Crown Store.

Nevertheless... none of the changes is as drastic or dramatic that you would be enforced to race change. It's not like a race got a 50% damage buff, 10000 regen or 20000 Health or anything else. Most of the changes are in a territory where you could argue that the basic player doesn't even recognize the change at all.

zaria · January 2019

Seraphayel wrote: »

IzzyStardust wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Actually his point does bring something to the discussion if he and some other people see it as being true. There, actually, is some substance to what the players are complaining about here as well. This impacts all players directly and indirectly.

And that's why it really doesn't matter in the end.

It's not like they just touched one race and nerfed it to the ground, it was a well-rounded approach of bringing races closer together which - surprise surprise, nobody expected this - might have been achieved.

If you're arguing with race / class changes now, you could use that argument every time they change classes or races. Every time. And that's why the arguments are so flawed. This game is under constant development and ZOS owes us nothing in this regard.

I'm not trying to be a pain or argue here. I'm just seeing this differently, according to the patch notes so far. Anyway, how is it well rounded when there are still clearly OP races and lackluster races? and the changes will cost people money? It isn't about need or meta or non meta players. everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. I stated this in my other comment a few posts back already in this thread.

No changes will cost people money. ZOS can make every change to races or classes they want to make. They're even offering one free race change (which they musn't do at all). Nobody is enforcing race changes but yourself. If you feel obliged to do them, do them. It's neither necessary nor mandatory.

Exactly, everyone is impacted directly and indirectly. That's why all of us are affected, positively or negatively - doesn't matter.

Who cares if there are OP races or lackluster races? That's normal. We have OP classes and lackluster classes, OP builds and lackluster builds. There is no obligation on ZOS side to make everything viable. Again, they owe us nothing in that regard.

Yes they will cost people money.
Yes they can change the races. I didn't say they couldn't. However, to change back to a meta char or to get the char you originally wanted to pick but couldn't because it was too punishing you'll have to pay money.

I'm not enforcing race changes. I don't know what you're on about there.

It most certainly does matter to some people if they are impacted or not and if the races are truly balanced or not. It also matters if they have 2 chars or all slots full if they'll need to change for one reason or the other. If someone choses not to change that's fine for him. this thread and all of the others wouldn't be here if none of these matters to the player base.

Okay, let me rephrase it: it might matter for some/many players. That's fine, they have all the right to be angry, disappointed and to complain.

Nevertheless they neither have any obligation to spend any money to race change nor does ZOS owe them an unlimited amount of free race changes just because they chose to rework some of the racial passives. You see, every player is allowed to dislike the changes as much as ZOS is allowed to change classes/races all they want to.

And no one ever debated that.

Then what's all the fuzz about if no one ever debated that?

ZOS applies changes which is normal in any MMORPG: check.

Players like/dislike the changes: check.

ZOS offers a free race change per account which they mustn't do at all: check.

Players can change their race for free, for tokens or start a new character: check.

Neither ZOS nor the game by itself enforces anybody to race change: check.

Where is the problem? If players feel obliged to race change because players feel obliged by other players to do so it's their fault and nobody else's. First and foremost it's not ZOS fault if a part of the community enforces this min-maxing meta playstyle especially not when all races were brought closer together than before.

This, the Dunmer magDK was an one tricks pony. who could easy be killed by system changes, or class changes.
nerfing enchants is one nerf.
Instead you can play both magic and stamina depending on that you like or that is stronger.
But it come with an horrible cost, you now do 300 dps lower than Altmer on an 50K parse.

How stupid is it possible to get, Khajiit don't want the top slot as she know it get nerfed down, rather be flexible.
She only want an small block cost reduction to make race an potato race.

LadyLethalla · January 2019

My 2 cents: I decided years ago that I wanted to complete VMA, and I made a High Elf sorc just for that purpose. Along the way, he completed the vet Craglorn trials and some HM dungeons. He was fun to play.
After a respec into a pet sorc and many, many months of trying, he finally killed Voriak Solkyn - and this on an ADSL2 connection - which I'd started to doubt was even possible. Then he killed him again. And again. And so on, until I lost track of how many times he'd completed it. Just prior to whichever patch it was that nerfed shields, he got two leaderboard rewards.
But since the nerf... he's been unemployed. Pets die immediately in VMA. The capped shield won't save him when I hit one of the many lag spikes (Australia = the land of potato internet). If you're not perfect at hitting those buttons at the correct time, in the right order, you fail at VMA. I'm not exactly young; another handicap. So why bother any more?
And VMA was my whole focus for months - because all my (still-playing) friends are on the other side of the world. No trials for me, not that I could stay connected in them anyway.

This isn't a L2P issue. I did drag my non-pet magsorc and my magblade (both Redguards, lol) through VMA prior to the shield nerf, but neither was an enjoyable experience. Nor was getting my stam Warden to stage 5.

And now the racials are being nerfed as well. For me it feels like the fun is an ever-shrinking circle - the devs would have us all the same just in case someone is overperforming. What's left for me to do, besides maybe decorating a house, writs or the occasional pledge?

So... I cancelled my ESO+ auto-renew. It expires today. Maybe I'll return for Elswyr... if I do, it will just be for the story I think.

And no, nobody is getting my stuff.

Arrodisia · January 2019

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

ZOS changing race stats for profit is a disgraceful and greedy business move.

Assuming that they're changing the racials deliberately to sell race change tokens (as opposed to, say, changing the balance in the game) is approaching tinfoil-hat territory.

We already paid our money for ESO PLUS, DLC's, Expansions....... So ZOS can pay the devs to make these things happen. So, why are we getting the bill again for this?

So some people being obsessive about 'chasing the meta', it's the devs fault? They need to never make any meaningful change to things, because it'll drive min-maxers to spend $? That's nuts.

So then it's our fault they imbalanced the races and then changed them to imbalance them again? and our fault we don't get the respecs for free like any other time ? and our fault they made leader boards? encouraged min maxing? and put buffs on the races at all? made sure gear was hidden behind some fights that were tough enough to need the extra passives?Also, it has impact for non meta people as well. which was also explained above.

Don't assume. The word deliberate was never used. There's no tinfoil involved here.Nice try to bait me though. It just fits the definition of P2W perfectly and your just trying to defend them, by picking out small pieces of my comment and twisting it around to suit you. I'm actually going on what they've actually given us so far. YOu're just assuming. It could just be a bonus realised after the fact. Regardless, it's wrong to do for the above explained reason in my original comment. The fact that you only talk about meta leaves me believing you never read the entire comment because this impacts all players directly and indirectly. Also, these changes aren't meaningful or balanced they still leave some races over top of others.

What you quoted from my statements is 1 opinion taken out context, because you removed the rest, and 1 fact. Then what you wrote back to my quotes is one opinion of you blaming the players for wanting to play what ZOS gave them, 1 untruth, and one false assumption. YOu seem to be taking this a lot harder than ZOS, since they welcome the criticism and complaints people are making. It gives them a chance to rectify all sorts of things the players like and dislike.

I stated my opinion, and some facts as well. It's a forum.We're allowed to do that here last I checked. I understand you don't like what I said, but they're valid statements.

Crom_CCCXVI · January 2019

Bro...
my main toon was a High DPS light armor wearing High Elf Concussion Build DK.

First they nerfed Flame Lash 3x, then they nerfed off balance to where you couldn't rely on it to be there when you needed it, now they are nerfing my max magica from 44K to like what 35k at best. Won't be able to kill anyone anymore.

Zerg or get zerged. Just one giant DPS nerf, again

myskyrim26 · January 2019

Race, class, skills... I can handle that. But now they came for LORE AND STORIES.

russelmmendoza · January 2019

To the op.
I feel the pain.
I feel the same.
But.
I have not loss my love for eso.
I just hate, abhor, despises zenimax more now.

Godspeed · January 2019

Vahrokh wrote: »

In every MMO I play (since before 2000) I play a magicka based DPS, usually a mage. I love Dark Elves (Baldur's Gate times!).

(This is entirely a PvE oriented post).

When ESO beta started, I rolled a Dunmer Magicka Sorceress, of course.
I had tons of great time and epic moments with her.

I have invested INNUMERABLE hours on her. Purchased all sorts of crown store stuff to make her better.

With her, I had all the hard mode and speed run achievements for Craglorn trials when we still had Veteran Ranks.

With her, I made into hard mode vMOL.

Over the years, however, ZOS has relentlessy made playing her less tasteful and meaningful.
I am not (just) talking about performance. This is a (mmo)RPG, that is you are meant to have a grand "feel good" experience with your characters. They have to feel epic, they have a story, they have a lore. Dunmers literally live around volcanoes and this has forever changed their affinity to fire.

First ZOS started a never ending chipping away of class signature abilities. It's not the case I list what everyone know: killed and made "normalized" our nuke. Normalized all sorts of unique curses, shields etc, in the name of a tasteless streamlining. Read: "it costs us time and money, so we can't bother dealing with class and builds diversity. We just level all them down to a simple, easily managed minimum common denominator".

Funnily enough, I played a 2008 PvP MMO that featured 24 different races and specs, made by a smaller company, and yet they managed to make it balanced. Apparently a billion company cannot deal with an handful classes.

Furthermore: I always loved playing a fire or lightning spec. Both have their uses. Being an "old generation" gamer, I have been accustomed at mages being the "masters of AoE". After enough AoE fire damage specs, I switched to lightning and loved it. Being this a RPG that features multiple specs, I love both fire and lightning and expect they are both viable.

However, over the years, fire got stripped off AoE and became single target, lightning became sort of the forced "pets + AoE" spec.

What happened then? Already PvE underperforming magicka sorceresses developed so that lightning spec is non competitive any more. Fire spec used to be decent (I don't say "competitive" because that's reserved to other classes) and, being a Dunmer, I could reap some benefits out of that.

But now they are coming for my race too. Cruelly stripping away the last taste of flavour I could enjoy, stripping away the fire damage bonus. Giving some stamina bonus, to a race that has ALWAYS meant to be "just behind Altmers as magicka affinity".

Coming next patch, I am left with a visibly underperforming ligthtning spec OR a nerfed fire spec. There's no way out. It's just nerf stacking on nerf, stacking on class homogenization.

Only alternative, would be to change race and class, that is the two very reasons why I play ESO for.

I don't care if I get a free race change token. I want to play my character AS IS, as it's always done for 5 years!

Is it asking too much?

Yet another idiotic example of the belief that if something isn’t the best then it completely sucks.

Loyheta · January 2019

I can definitely empathize with you. However in TES 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5, dunmer have only ever had fire resistance and not bonus fire damage. So really this shouldn't have existed in the first place and they probably couldn't have had a strong fire resistance in pvp because... laziness.

So yeah.. ZOS definitely has fumbled a lot with the design of the game. (I'm still salty classes exist)

Mr_Walker · January 2019

Hmmm. It's almost like all the calls for nerfs have culminated in classes/races started to become homogenised, and boring. Who'd have ever thought that?

Apart from all the people who said it would happen of course.

Vahrokh · January 2019

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

In every MMO I play (since before 2000) I play a magicka based DPS, usually a mage. I love Dark Elves

If you've been playing MMOs that long, how are you not totally used to classes/races/skills being nerfed into the ground on any given patch?

I mained a Troll Hunter in WoW from vanilla through Cataclysm. Soooo many ups and downs (mostly downs). And that happened to every class over the years. It's a basic part of MMOs, that your min/max/meta character can be yanked out from under your feet at any moment. How is this surprising or shocking to you, as an MMO veteran?

It's not shocking, I quit WoW when they screwed up my class. I don't see why I should pay people to make my hard earned leisure time a miserable thing.

Same thing I have done in GW2, when they kept screwing up Elementalist (not even nerfing, they just could not understand what to do with their own class).