Numerikuu wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Numerikuu wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I think it's very fair that vet dungeons are "vet trial" difficulty. Like I said, endgame players get almost no content. The fact that you want to even take this away from us is incredibly selfish.

While I agree that there should be a difficulty for those that love the challenge, making it to the same levels as trials, when there are trials for that very purpose, is a bit much--especially when it only caters to a small percentage of the player base. Have it be its own mode perhaps. Use a scroll from the start of the dungeon to activate the difficulty. But to make it the default difficulty? Nah. Tired of hearing my friends literally break down from trying to complete these dungeons, then quitting the game because of it or avoiding dungeons altogether.

Games should be a fun time waster, not a soul crushing experience.

Trials are 12-man content. Dungeons are 4-man content. i can form a vet dungeon group in 15 minutes. I need 2-3 hours to form a trial group. I don't run trials for this reason.

If vet is too hard for you, you have normal mode.

Except vet is becoming more akin to vetHM, while normal is the new vet. I get there needs to be some sort of progression, but when it gets to the point that the majority have difficulties doing normal mode or avoid the dungeons altogether, you have a problem. A design problem. Your players should want to do your dungeons, not actively avoid and dread them.

Then make normal easier. There is no reason to touch vet.

Numerikuu wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Numerikuu wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I think it's very fair that vet dungeons are "vet trial" difficulty. Like I said, endgame players get almost no content. The fact that you want to even take this away from us is incredibly selfish.

While I agree that there should be a difficulty for those that love the challenge, making it to the same levels as trials, when there are trials for that very purpose, is a bit much--especially when it only caters to a small percentage of the player base. Have it be its own mode perhaps. Use a scroll from the start of the dungeon to activate the difficulty. But to make it the default difficulty? Nah. Tired of hearing my friends literally break down from trying to complete these dungeons, then quitting the game because of it or avoiding dungeons altogether.

Games should be a fun time waster, not a soul crushing experience.

Trials are 12-man content. Dungeons are 4-man content. i can form a vet dungeon group in 15 minutes. I need 2-3 hours to form a trial group. I don't run trials for this reason.

If vet is too hard for you, you have normal mode.

Except vet is becoming more akin to vetHM, while normal is the new vet. I get there needs to be some sort of progression, but when it gets to the point that the majority have difficulties doing normal mode or avoid the dungeons altogether, you have a problem. A design problem. Your players should want to do your dungeons, not actively avoid and dread them.

Agree. It also translates to sales. I don't buy the dungeon DLCs. I have access through my sub, and have bought every chapter plus other DLCs to support the game, but I'm not going to buy content that seems to be increasingly designed by a small pool of end game raiders.

Numerikuu wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Numerikuu wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I think it's very fair that vet dungeons are "vet trial" difficulty. Like I said, endgame players get almost no content. The fact that you want to even take this away from us is incredibly selfish.

While I agree that there should be a difficulty for those that love the challenge, making it to the same levels as trials, when there are trials for that very purpose, is a bit much--especially when it only caters to a small percentage of the player base. Have it be its own mode perhaps. Use a scroll from the start of the dungeon to activate the difficulty. But to make it the default difficulty? Nah. Tired of hearing my friends literally break down from trying to complete these dungeons, then quitting the game because of it or avoiding dungeons altogether.

Games should be a fun time waster, not a soul crushing experience.

Trials are 12-man content. Dungeons are 4-man content. i can form a vet dungeon group in 15 minutes. I need 2-3 hours to form a trial group. I don't run trials for this reason.

If vet is too hard for you, you have normal mode.

Except vet is becoming more akin to vetHM, while normal is the new vet. I get there needs to be some sort of progression, but when it gets to the point that the majority have difficulties doing normal mode or avoid the dungeons altogether, you have a problem. A design problem. Your players should want to do your dungeons, not actively avoid and dread them.

And if any player takes the time to get through the DLC dungeons on normal 2-3 times, they will know what's going on and they will be able to get through them with ease after that. Players should be awake during dungeons, they shouldn't be a snooze fest.

Itsmichi wrote: »

When did the playerbase lost its motivation to become better?

About the same time ZOS decided it was better to chase new players with gimmicks rather than improve the game and retain existing ones.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

That's an incredibly selfish request. Endgame players already don't get a lot of content. Taking dungeons away from us too isn't happening. Casuals get 40+ hours of quest content annually. Endgame players get 4 dungeons and 2 trials/arenas. The bulk of new content released is for casuals/new players.

Having said that, I'm fine with a cakewalk normal mode.

Really though, I'm perplexed as to why they even put story content in a dungeon, knowing full well that many players don't play dungeons.

UM HELLO

There'll be vet versions for you to do.

Are you ignorant or just didnt bother to read the post?

It's incredibly selfish to expect new players/players who dont frequent dungeons/ the pve scene to "get good" just so you have some hardcore 'normal' dlc dungeons that are tied into the story.

Quoting you:

Libonotus wrote: »

I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty.

I think it's very fair that vet dungeons are "vet trial" difficulty. Like I said, endgame players get almost no content. The fact that you want to even take this away from us is incredibly selfish.

You do know the difference between vet dungeon difficulty and vet trial right?

Libonotus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Numerikuu wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Numerikuu wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I think it's very fair that vet dungeons are "vet trial" difficulty. Like I said, endgame players get almost no content. The fact that you want to even take this away from us is incredibly selfish.

While I agree that there should be a difficulty for those that love the challenge, making it to the same levels as trials, when there are trials for that very purpose, is a bit much--especially when it only caters to a small percentage of the player base. Have it be its own mode perhaps. Use a scroll from the start of the dungeon to activate the difficulty. But to make it the default difficulty? Nah. Tired of hearing my friends literally break down from trying to complete these dungeons, then quitting the game because of it or avoiding dungeons altogether.

Games should be a fun time waster, not a soul crushing experience.

Trials are 12-man content. Dungeons are 4-man content. i can form a vet dungeon group in 15 minutes. I need 2-3 hours to form a trial group. I don't run trials for this reason.

If vet is too hard for you, you have normal mode.

Except vet is becoming more akin to vetHM, while normal is the new vet. I get there needs to be some sort of progression, but when it gets to the point that the majority have difficulties doing normal mode or avoid the dungeons altogether, you have a problem. A design problem. Your players should want to do your dungeons, not actively avoid and dread them.

Then make normal easier. There is no reason to touch vet.

No one was ever talking about making vet easier. HELLO

You were, in the original post.

Libonotus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

That's an incredibly selfish request. Endgame players already don't get a lot of content. Taking dungeons away from us too isn't happening. Casuals get 40+ hours of quest content annually. Endgame players get 4 dungeons and 2 trials/arenas. The bulk of new content released is for casuals/new players.

Having said that, I'm fine with a cakewalk normal mode.

Really though, I'm perplexed as to why they even put story content in a dungeon, knowing full well that many players don't play dungeons.

UM HELLO

There'll be vet versions for you to do.

Are you ignorant or just didnt bother to read the post?

It's incredibly selfish to expect new players/players who dont frequent dungeons/ the pve scene to "get good" just so you have some hardcore 'normal' dlc dungeons that are tied into the story.

Quoting you:

Libonotus wrote: »

I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty.

I think it's very fair that vet dungeons are "vet trial" difficulty. Like I said, endgame players get almost no content. The fact that you want to even take this away from us is incredibly selfish.

You do know the difference between vet dungeon difficulty and vet trial right?

Where did I say that I wanted to take away vet dungeon difficulty? The whole point and the whole argument is about making the normal dungeons exactly that, normal, like the base game dungeons considering they’re tied to the story. I never said anything about changing the vet difficulty. My whole posts have been about changing the normal difficulty in the upcoming dlc. Your inability to see this and put words in my mouth which I haven’t explicitly said, in a sad attempt to devalue my points, is tantamount to ignorance.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Numerikuu wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Numerikuu wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

I think it's very fair that vet dungeons are "vet trial" difficulty. Like I said, endgame players get almost no content. The fact that you want to even take this away from us is incredibly selfish.

While I agree that there should be a difficulty for those that love the challenge, making it to the same levels as trials, when there are trials for that very purpose, is a bit much--especially when it only caters to a small percentage of the player base. Have it be its own mode perhaps. Use a scroll from the start of the dungeon to activate the difficulty. But to make it the default difficulty? Nah. Tired of hearing my friends literally break down from trying to complete these dungeons, then quitting the game because of it or avoiding dungeons altogether.

Games should be a fun time waster, not a soul crushing experience.

Trials are 12-man content. Dungeons are 4-man content. i can form a vet dungeon group in 15 minutes. I need 2-3 hours to form a trial group. I don't run trials for this reason.

If vet is too hard for you, you have normal mode.

Except vet is becoming more akin to vetHM, while normal is the new vet. I get there needs to be some sort of progression, but when it gets to the point that the majority have difficulties doing normal mode or avoid the dungeons altogether, you have a problem. A design problem. Your players should want to do your dungeons, not actively avoid and dread them.

Then make normal easier. There is no reason to touch vet.

No one was ever talking about making vet easier. HELLO

You were, in the original post.

You’ve clearly read what you wanted to read and ignored the rest. You’re putting words into my mouth that I haven’t actually said. You probably won’t read these replies cause it ruins your whole argument so I guess we’re done here.

Libonotus wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

That's an incredibly selfish request. Endgame players already don't get a lot of content. Taking dungeons away from us too isn't happening. Casuals get 40+ hours of quest content annually. Endgame players get 4 dungeons and 2 trials/arenas. The bulk of new content released is for casuals/new players.

Having said that, I'm fine with a cakewalk normal mode.

Really though, I'm perplexed as to why they even put story content in a dungeon, knowing full well that many players don't play dungeons.

UM HELLO

There'll be vet versions for you to do.

Are you ignorant or just didnt bother to read the post?

It's incredibly selfish to expect new players/players who dont frequent dungeons/ the pve scene to "get good" just so you have some hardcore 'normal' dlc dungeons that are tied into the story.

Quoting you:

Libonotus wrote: »

I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty.

I think it's very fair that vet dungeons are "vet trial" difficulty. Like I said, endgame players get almost no content. The fact that you want to even take this away from us is incredibly selfish.

You do know the difference between vet dungeon difficulty and vet trial right?

Where did I say that I wanted to take away vet dungeon difficulty? The whole point and the whole argument is about making the normal dungeons exactly that, normal, like the base game dungeons considering they’re tied to the story. I never said anything about changing the vet difficulty. My whole posts have been about changing the normal difficulty in the upcoming dlc. Your inability to see this and put words in my mouth which I haven’t explicitly said, in a sad attempt to devalue my points, is tantamount to ignorance.

Which base game dungeon, though? FG1? Blessed Crucible? Direfrost Keep? Vaults of Madness? Banished Cells I?

Because normal dungeons have a difficulty curve, which is tied to their level before One Tamriel and is related to the order in which they are unlocked for a new character in the Dungeon Finder as they level.

What are we talking about here?

MattT1988 wrote: »

You know, I keep hearing people say the “majority of players don’t do veteran content” or “majority of players are casual who hate dungeons” or “these dungeons only appeal to a small percentage of the playerbase” but no one has put up any proof or stats to back up the claim.

Ask Zenimax. It'd honestly be interesting to see.

Warframe did this, then removed trials from the game once they realized just how few people were actually playing them, then moved the rewards from trials to other game modes that everyone could work towards to and obtain instead of the elite few.

mairwen85 wrote: »

How about this: players play the game, skill up, advance and progress until they can complete the new dungeons.

Rich used the term "Bonkers" to describe the Dungeon Hardmodes, so if that means its even worse than HotR and Dragonbones, then OP makes a fair point.

Some people really don't read well. No one asked there to not be vet or hard content. They ware asking for a cake walk mode to stroll around in and look at what is a quite beautiful game. I use a 3rd party program to give the game appearance a bit more umph (contrast and slight saturation). They are also not asking for equal rewards (or at least shouldn't be).

Ironic that a lot of the posters complaining about toxicity of 'elitists' and 'try hards' are just as toxic.

I see one of the main issue between the two camps of 'gimme soloable cakewalk' and 'git gud', is this. They don't understand each other. Group 1 wants to smell the flowers, Group wants to bang their head against mechanics and tough bosses and get gear.

Group 2 just doesn't grasp that some people don't care about analysing their latest parse to see where they can cram another 1k dps in or up the score on a trial run.. etc etc. They don't understand that some ppl really don't wanna git gud. They don't care. They want to run a Khajit Magblade cos they think its cute and their bars are not optimised for killing things the quickest way possible. They like how that skill looks maybe.

I think what creates the knee jerk reaction of "NO! GIT GUD" is, they fear is that Group 1 wants the same rewards as Group 2 gets for doing the hard content. I believe that is a fair call.

If there is a cakewalk mode - please grade the rewards accordingly. Super low drop rate, green and maybe no jewellery. If you are just there for the story and that's your way of playing the entire game, you don't need the gear anyway.

I am closer to group 2 than 1, but I am in a streamer's social guild that takes alot of brand new or newer players (he puts out a massive beginners video with every chapter) and have run a few through their first dungeons. And there is people that really are scared of doing them. I am also in a progression guild and some of those guys are ridiculously good at the game, that in turn I feel like the anchor and sometimes don't answer calls for runs.

I agree if it's story based, yes everyone should be able to see it one way or another. Especially in the context of a year long continuing story.

I am also a firm believer that it is fine to lock items (cosmetic or otherwise), sets and so forth behind harder content. You want the best gear, you want the latest motifs etc, yes get better at the game because you pay to play the game, you did NOT pay to get everything handed to you. I have issues with people that have that kind of entitlement .