New dungeons better be normal

karekiz

j.greenmanb16_ESO wrote: »

Should a person really have to skip the contents of a dungeon to make it enjoyable instead of a grind, though?

Yes/no both?

Skips are part of the dungeon experience and well games in general. It is another level in a way to do a dungeon. Previously however there was no real reason not to skip <As it just slowed down a run and you earned nothing for it>. Newer dungeons require you learn to clear trash for speed runs, giving a reason to clear again. Balancing both is where I want it. I want those sneaky stealth usage in dungeons, but I don't want it to be the ONLY way to experience it. Now I don't want annoying trash. Bloodroot/FH have just annoying trash packs over and over and over. Moonhunter has a weird little area with spriggans that cast the most BS CC ever created. It must have been clearly saw as BS as they introduce the mechanic and it literally goes away forever never to be used again.

Dragons bones/Wolfhunter gave me that for the most part anyway. March has a lot of random off the wall trash packs that can be strolled by in a casual pledge clear or HM attempt. For speedruns you need to learn how to effectively clear trash as well as bosses.

FlyingSwan

Cardthief wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

No DLC dungeon is harder than City of Ash 2, so there you go.

City of Ash 2 is a medium level dungeon. Every DLC dungeon is harder than it. I personally think that since the DLC dungeons this year are all tied to the story, they should be medium difficulty, similar to COA2. It'll make it easy enough for players to run through on Normal and get the story, but add a bit of a challenge without being mindnumbingly difficult. We've had 6 straight hard dungeons, each harder than the last.

Well, except WGT, that's pretty much on the exact same level as CoAII, its pretty much the easiest DLC dungeon to date.

Indeed, and it is all relative. I can remember when WGT launched, people were QQing over WGT on *normal* mode being too hard. Now it's largely a faceroll on vet for any moderately competent PUG and nWGT is one of those things you run for a bit of relaxation therapy after a tough commute. Such is the nature of progression in a game, and people who find the latest DLC dungeon hard today need to remember it'll not be long before they are stating it holds no challenge for them.

So ZOS need to create content that has some degree of challenge on release or that content ages very rapidly as we out-gear it.

zaria

Now it was some talk of collapsing bridges, an mechanic who will typically one shoot you in normal.
If real unlucky we get something like the second last boss in CoH2. Add something like engine guardian and the three bosses in MoS.

Now you have the perfect setup to kill pugs in normal. An dungeon who does require an tank and heals and have mechanic who must be followed. In vet its not much harder than CoS.

Seriously normal dungeons should not be much harder than the 1 vet ones. Yes as they are DLC they can have lots of mechanics.

Agenericname

j.greenmanb16_ESO wrote: »

karekiz wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

I don't mind them being difficult, but why does every DLC dungeon need to be a 2 hours run?

They aren't really.

Arguably CoA2 and Mazz can go with longest run if you actually kill all trash with at level teams.

However with march just skip the hunts the dungeon is doable in roughly 30-40 mins avg. Moonhunter isn't very long honestly.

*Edit forgot about bloodroot/ICP too. Those are quite lengthy.

Should a person really have to skip the contents of a dungeon to make it enjoyable instead of a grind, though?

Considering that many will skip the middle bosses in nFG1 to shorten the experience, it doesn't surprise me people would also skip content in longer dungeons regardless of the level of difficulty.

AlnilamE wrote: »

N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

No DLC dungeon is harder than City of Ash 2, so there you go.

Lol

Which dungeons do you think are harder? What makes them harder than the boss with the two air atros in COA2? Or Valkyn Skoria?

People seem to have different perceptions of difficulty. For example, my least favourite DLC is ICP, whereas I've seen people call that the easiest DLC dungeon.

Running the dungeon multiple times and learning the fine points of the mechanics will make any of them look easier. Running it once and declaring it "too hard" will make them "too hard".

Most of the DLC dungeons would be considered harder by the average player. The mechanics are what create the perceived difficulty and separate them. Mechanics can be difficult to explain to a newer or inexperienced player, especially in a chat window, and the DLC dungeons usually have more. Once you know when, the difficulty is reduced, but getting to that point can be a chore in itself.

I think if you compared the Ash Titan or Valkyn Skoria to Bloodroot Forge or Moonhunter Keep you'd find more mechanics in the latter.

Mettaricana

I can agree... to an extent why have a group finder if no one is competent enough to complete the content not everyone wants to play dark souls online where you need to beat x while running backwards blindfolded just to die from lag. Since horns of the reach i very seldom try a dlc dungeon because 9 times outta 10 the group will rage quit or we'll never clear first boss because its just to much for a casual but then dangle a boss helm we need in vet and know good and well some will never get the helm and the golden will never sell the helm... kinda miss playing the game vs getting pissed at the game for being aggrivating content. 2 dlcs a year can just skip cuz aint half of the player base gonna complete it. Im sure the gitgud'ers and L2p people will say other wise but their the minority so why is everything scaled to vet+++ mode instead of normal and vet. Not to mention they have this steep difficulty scale and the game itself can't even function well enough to complete it without copious lag, dcs, crash, broken telegraphs and mechanics, invisible skills and attacks, random boss aggro drops when spamming taunts, boss randomly resets mid fight its like darks souls with network issues

templesus

Progress, get gear, get better at rotations, try, if you fail, try again, until you complete it. Asking for it to be easier is a cop out from putting in the effort.

ShimmeringWitchy

I don't mind DLC dungeons being harder than the originals. Sure, it may take a few tries to learn the mechanics the first time you run it...but after so many times running a dungeon you should (hopefully) get it down. Trial and error, practice makes perfect - that sort of thing.

The only issue that I have really seen is when forming PUGs, specifically with players who haven't done the particular dungeon before but disregard everything someone experienced in that dungeon is saying about the mechanics. Especially if the experienced player(s) have to repeat themselves each time the group wipes on a boss, and actively telling the noob what they're doing wrong and how to change it.

exeeter702

haelene wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

But what about tryhards that complain the game is so easy?

So wanting to have meaningful challenge and engagement makes you a tryhard..

Got it.

No of course not! Wanting a challenge is a totally valid playstyle.

Pretending that wanting a meaningful challenge and engagement is the only "true playstyle", and that every other playstyle is lesser in some way makes one a tryhard. Insisting that a "meaningful challenge" is the only way to get "meaningful engagement" makes one a tryhard.

Please note, I'm speaking in generalities here, not specifically about you.

But of course. Its not one or the other. The initial OP was making a fair assessment. The the person I quoted made a sweeping generalization.

MartiniDaniels

DLC dungeons normals were nerfed in difficulty not so long ago. A lot of mechanic related things which previously one shot you, now leave some HP to any player (damage in case of error is like 80-90% HP not pure damage)

haelene

exeeter702 wrote: »

haelene wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

But what about tryhards that complain the game is so easy?

So wanting to have meaningful challenge and engagement makes you a tryhard..

Got it.

No of course not! Wanting a challenge is a totally valid playstyle.

Pretending that wanting a meaningful challenge and engagement is the only "true playstyle", and that every other playstyle is lesser in some way makes one a tryhard. Insisting that a "meaningful challenge" is the only way to get "meaningful engagement" makes one a tryhard.

Please note, I'm speaking in generalities here, not specifically about you.

But of course. Its not one or the other. The initial OP was making a fair assessment. The the person I quoted made a sweeping generalization.

I agree! I didn't mean for it to come off like I was being snarky towards you in particular, I should have clarified a bit better.

josiahva

Cardthief wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

No DLC dungeon is harder than City of Ash 2, so there you go.

Lol

Which dungeons do you think are harder? What makes them harder than the boss with the two air atros in COA2? Or Valkyn Skoria?

People seem to have different perceptions of difficulty. For example, my least favourite DLC is ICP, whereas I've seen people call that the easiest DLC dungeon.

Running the dungeon multiple times and learning the fine points of the mechanics will make any of them look easier. Running it once and declaring it "too hard" will make them "too hard".

The Ash Titan boss is pretty much a joke, the Air Attronachs don't really do anything, all you have to do for that fight is focus the Ash Titan while the tank keeps the Attros taunted and takes them for a stroll.

As for Skoria, its more of a DPS race than anything, and even if you fail to kill him before he destroys all the main platforms, as long as you have a good healer then you can survive the fire on the small islands.

As for which are more difficult?
ICP if your team has low DPS
FH if your team doesn't know/follow the final boss mechanics (happens with PuGs a LOT)
BF if your team doesn't know the mechanics or doesn't focus the smaller boss spawns for the final boss
RoM if your team doesn't know the mechanics for the final boss
FL if your team doesn't know the mechanics for the bone animals boss fight
SP final boss HM can be a literal RNG nightmare
MHK if your team doesn't know the mechanics (this one is a PuG killer for the most part)
MoS final boss HM can be difficult for some PuGs

you dont need DPS to kill Skoria....as long as everyone knows where safety rock is. After all platforms are destroyed I have soloed him on my tank with everyone else dead.

Libonotus

Dreyloch wrote: »

Few things here.
First off, normal mode base game dungeons (just my opinion here) should start at CP 160. DLC normal mode should start at CP300, just for the simple fact these are dungeons coming out well after the initial release of the game. This means after almost 5 years, unless you just got the game within the last 6 months, you should have "some" knowledge of your class and mechanics of your avatar and the NPC's your fighting.

DLC's are meant to be harder in normal mode because many players have been around a good while, and if they are going to pay for something (thru ESO plus or crowns or w/e) then they want something a little more challenging for the money. They have grown since the last dungeon's came out. They have done them 100's of times. They want something new, and they want something that isn't going to take 15 minutes to complete. Thereby, waiting for 3 or 6 more months till the next batch comes out.

I am mainly a PvP'er and if anyone has the right to complain it's us. Having to do PvE content where we (or maybe just myself) just don't give a crap about storylines and lore and all that. We want to get the gear that's going to help us kill other players. But ya know what? I HAVE done just about every dungeon in game in one form or another. I've done vMA, vDSA, Trails...all of that to accomplish my goal of having the best gear/tools when it comes to defeating other players.

My point is, if you want the best gear and tools for the job, ya need to work for it. Stop this sissy talk about "Story modes", man-(or woman) up and work for it. Join a guild, make new friends, do stuff together and everyone prospers. It make take you longer? But most of you are saying your "casual" anyway. So what difference does time make? Stop asking to be handed stuff simply because your not able to play as often. It's like asking for more money from your boss and saying "But I can only show up 2 days a week, instead of 5". It's not right. So please stop. Not trying to be elitest here. Just giving the simple facts of life.

Couple of things here, first of: If you bothered to read my post (OP’s) it was about making it so everyone could participate in the story, not just those that have spent a long time in the game and are gonna be able to do a vet level ‘normal’ dungeon.

Secondly, your comment was, in essence, just you glorifying yourself.

You clearly didn’t read the post and had the audacity to comment this.

zaria

One question about dungeon quests.
Why are not everybody hearing the dialog, show player response as text for contest
This has two benefits, it let other listen to the quest again
It also tell them how far player is in dialog and how fast he is doing it. If he want to listen to it all and is not an noob: you might say clearing trash while you do quest. Don't do this with new players as it can freak them out.

josiahva

Libonotus wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Few things here.
First off, normal mode base game dungeons (just my opinion here) should start at CP 160. DLC normal mode should start at CP300, just for the simple fact these are dungeons coming out well after the initial release of the game. This means after almost 5 years, unless you just got the game within the last 6 months, you should have "some" knowledge of your class and mechanics of your avatar and the NPC's your fighting.

DLC's are meant to be harder in normal mode because many players have been around a good while, and if they are going to pay for something (thru ESO plus or crowns or w/e) then they want something a little more challenging for the money. They have grown since the last dungeon's came out. They have done them 100's of times. They want something new, and they want something that isn't going to take 15 minutes to complete. Thereby, waiting for 3 or 6 more months till the next batch comes out.

I am mainly a PvP'er and if anyone has the right to complain it's us. Having to do PvE content where we (or maybe just myself) just don't give a crap about storylines and lore and all that. We want to get the gear that's going to help us kill other players. But ya know what? I HAVE done just about every dungeon in game in one form or another. I've done vMA, vDSA, Trails...all of that to accomplish my goal of having the best gear/tools when it comes to defeating other players.

My point is, if you want the best gear and tools for the job, ya need to work for it. Stop this sissy talk about "Story modes", man-(or woman) up and work for it. Join a guild, make new friends, do stuff together and everyone prospers. It make take you longer? But most of you are saying your "casual" anyway. So what difference does time make? Stop asking to be handed stuff simply because your not able to play as often. It's like asking for more money from your boss and saying "But I can only show up 2 days a week, instead of 5". It's not right. So please stop. Not trying to be elitest here. Just giving the simple facts of life.

Couple of things here, first of: If you bothered to read my post (OP’s) it was about making it so everyone could participate in the story, not just those that have spent a long time in the game and are gonna be able to do a vet level ‘normal’ dungeon.

Secondly, your comment was, in essence, just you glorifying yourself.

You clearly didn’t read the post and had the audacity to comment this.

New players literally just weeks into the game can complete normal DLC dungeons without issue. I know...because I have run multiple normal DLC dungeons with new players...they just arent as hard as you make them out to be.

FlyingSwan

josiahva wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Few things here.
First off, normal mode base game dungeons (just my opinion here) should start at CP 160. DLC normal mode should start at CP300, just for the simple fact these are dungeons coming out well after the initial release of the game. This means after almost 5 years, unless you just got the game within the last 6 months, you should have "some" knowledge of your class and mechanics of your avatar and the NPC's your fighting.

DLC's are meant to be harder in normal mode because many players have been around a good while, and if they are going to pay for something (thru ESO plus or crowns or w/e) then they want something a little more challenging for the money. They have grown since the last dungeon's came out. They have done them 100's of times. They want something new, and they want something that isn't going to take 15 minutes to complete. Thereby, waiting for 3 or 6 more months till the next batch comes out.

I am mainly a PvP'er and if anyone has the right to complain it's us. Having to do PvE content where we (or maybe just myself) just don't give a crap about storylines and lore and all that. We want to get the gear that's going to help us kill other players. But ya know what? I HAVE done just about every dungeon in game in one form or another. I've done vMA, vDSA, Trails...all of that to accomplish my goal of having the best gear/tools when it comes to defeating other players.

My point is, if you want the best gear and tools for the job, ya need to work for it. Stop this sissy talk about "Story modes", man-(or woman) up and work for it. Join a guild, make new friends, do stuff together and everyone prospers. It make take you longer? But most of you are saying your "casual" anyway. So what difference does time make? Stop asking to be handed stuff simply because your not able to play as often. It's like asking for more money from your boss and saying "But I can only show up 2 days a week, instead of 5". It's not right. So please stop. Not trying to be elitest here. Just giving the simple facts of life.

Couple of things here, first of: If you bothered to read my post (OP’s) it was about making it so everyone could participate in the story, not just those that have spent a long time in the game and are gonna be able to do a vet level ‘normal’ dungeon.

Secondly, your comment was, in essence, just you glorifying yourself.

You clearly didn’t read the post and had the audacity to comment this.

New players literally just weeks into the game can complete normal DLC dungeons without issue. I know...because I have run multiple normal DLC dungeons with new players...they just arent as hard as you make them out to be.

Agreed, the battle-levelling system means lowbies are likely doing more damage more easily than higher level players. Granted, you have to tell them mechanics etc., but mechs in ESO are pretty basic, so whilst failing mechs can be quite punishing in DLC dungeons, they are easily dealt with when known about. So good comms is they key, but it's a group game, so that's just something we expect.

This topic comes up over and over and it's a non-issue. Sure, DLC norms are tougher than the basic norms, but they are in no way insurmountable, or even near to it.

jaws343

josiahva wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Few things here.
First off, normal mode base game dungeons (just my opinion here) should start at CP 160. DLC normal mode should start at CP300, just for the simple fact these are dungeons coming out well after the initial release of the game. This means after almost 5 years, unless you just got the game within the last 6 months, you should have "some" knowledge of your class and mechanics of your avatar and the NPC's your fighting.

DLC's are meant to be harder in normal mode because many players have been around a good while, and if they are going to pay for something (thru ESO plus or crowns or w/e) then they want something a little more challenging for the money. They have grown since the last dungeon's came out. They have done them 100's of times. They want something new, and they want something that isn't going to take 15 minutes to complete. Thereby, waiting for 3 or 6 more months till the next batch comes out.

I am mainly a PvP'er and if anyone has the right to complain it's us. Having to do PvE content where we (or maybe just myself) just don't give a crap about storylines and lore and all that. We want to get the gear that's going to help us kill other players. But ya know what? I HAVE done just about every dungeon in game in one form or another. I've done vMA, vDSA, Trails...all of that to accomplish my goal of having the best gear/tools when it comes to defeating other players.

My point is, if you want the best gear and tools for the job, ya need to work for it. Stop this sissy talk about "Story modes", man-(or woman) up and work for it. Join a guild, make new friends, do stuff together and everyone prospers. It make take you longer? But most of you are saying your "casual" anyway. So what difference does time make? Stop asking to be handed stuff simply because your not able to play as often. It's like asking for more money from your boss and saying "But I can only show up 2 days a week, instead of 5". It's not right. So please stop. Not trying to be elitest here. Just giving the simple facts of life.

Couple of things here, first of: If you bothered to read my post (OP’s) it was about making it so everyone could participate in the story, not just those that have spent a long time in the game and are gonna be able to do a vet level ‘normal’ dungeon.

Secondly, your comment was, in essence, just you glorifying yourself.

You clearly didn’t read the post and had the audacity to comment this.

New players literally just weeks into the game can complete normal DLC dungeons without issue. I know...because I have run multiple normal DLC dungeons with new players...they just arent as hard as you make them out to be.

I would love to watch players a few weeks old to the game, with zero playtime before that (not on an alt), do normal Scalecaller. Most likely, they will barely be out of level 50, or cp 160.

But most importantly, I would love to watch a run of those players without the help of a vet level player who knows the mechanics of the dungeon and the game as a whole. If I had to bet money on it, very very very few of those groups would even get passed the first boss because while that dungeon is pretty easy for Vet players on Normal, it is a pretty difficult normal mode. And the same goes for every dungeon since the Bloodroot and Falkreath DLCs.

Loralai_907

My thing is I don't have a lot of experience with running dungeons, and while I think it is great the way they are handling the story this year, I'm kind of freaking out a bit because I feel like I HAVE to run the dungeons. If they are super complicated, I'm looking at the possibility of holding other people back due to my lack of running content like that. And that makes me less interested in attempting them. But I really don't want to miss big parts of the story...

keevil111

I think they should make one new dungeon super short! Like Fungal Grotto short, but shorter.

Maybe 2-3 rooms and BLAM! Final boss! lol

Would be a nice change of pace every other week or so for a pledge.

Sergykid

just wish i had a checkbox to "include DLC dungeons in random search" so i can join random vets in peace.

and about mechanics, this is why i hate running DLC with pugs. It's not their fault they don't know the mechanics, the game doesn't teach u in any way what the mechanics are or what does the boss do. You have to die 10 times to realize what's happening, sometimes the fight is more difficult just because you don't know what r u supposed to do, even if you make it eventually.

Libonotus

FlyingSwan wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Few things here.
First off, normal mode base game dungeons (just my opinion here) should start at CP 160. DLC normal mode should start at CP300, just for the simple fact these are dungeons coming out well after the initial release of the game. This means after almost 5 years, unless you just got the game within the last 6 months, you should have "some" knowledge of your class and mechanics of your avatar and the NPC's your fighting.

DLC's are meant to be harder in normal mode because many players have been around a good while, and if they are going to pay for something (thru ESO plus or crowns or w/e) then they want something a little more challenging for the money. They have grown since the last dungeon's came out. They have done them 100's of times. They want something new, and they want something that isn't going to take 15 minutes to complete. Thereby, waiting for 3 or 6 more months till the next batch comes out.

I am mainly a PvP'er and if anyone has the right to complain it's us. Having to do PvE content where we (or maybe just myself) just don't give a crap about storylines and lore and all that. We want to get the gear that's going to help us kill other players. But ya know what? I HAVE done just about every dungeon in game in one form or another. I've done vMA, vDSA, Trails...all of that to accomplish my goal of having the best gear/tools when it comes to defeating other players.

My point is, if you want the best gear and tools for the job, ya need to work for it. Stop this sissy talk about "Story modes", man-(or woman) up and work for it. Join a guild, make new friends, do stuff together and everyone prospers. It make take you longer? But most of you are saying your "casual" anyway. So what difference does time make? Stop asking to be handed stuff simply because your not able to play as often. It's like asking for more money from your boss and saying "But I can only show up 2 days a week, instead of 5". It's not right. So please stop. Not trying to be elitest here. Just giving the simple facts of life.

Couple of things here, first of: If you bothered to read my post (OP’s) it was about making it so everyone could participate in the story, not just those that have spent a long time in the game and are gonna be able to do a vet level ‘normal’ dungeon.

Secondly, your comment was, in essence, just you glorifying yourself.

You clearly didn’t read the post and had the audacity to comment this.

New players literally just weeks into the game can complete normal DLC dungeons without issue. I know...because I have run multiple normal DLC dungeons with new players...they just arent as hard as you make them out to be.

Agreed, the battle-levelling system means lowbies are likely doing more damage more easily than higher level players. Granted, you have to tell them mechanics etc., but mechs in ESO are pretty basic, so whilst failing mechs can be quite punishing in DLC dungeons, they are easily dealt with when known about. So good comms is they key, but it's a group game, so that's just something we expect.

This topic comes up over and over and it's a non-issue. Sure, DLC norms are tougher than the basic norms, but they are in no way insurmountable, or even near to it.

UM HELLO

This topic is about DLC dungeons being tied to a story, the hard DLC dungeons we currently have are tied to 0 stories.
Therefore, it stands to reason that these dungeons should be made a tad easier so people who want to start/complete this chunk of story can do so.

FlyingSwan

mommadani907 wrote: »

My thing is I don't have a lot of experience with running dungeons, and while I think it is great the way they are handling the story this year, I'm kind of freaking out a bit because I feel like I HAVE to run the dungeons. If they are super complicated, I'm looking at the possibility of holding other people back due to my lack of running content like that. And that makes me less interested in attempting them. But I really don't want to miss big parts of the story...

My personal experience of this is that people won't view you as holding them back. I always helped new people in PUGs whenI run them (although often run with a guild), and I cetainly always help my low level guildies, I really like it in fact. So maybe join a guild to get dungeon ready?

Libonotus

FlyingSwan wrote: »

mommadani907 wrote: »

My thing is I don't have a lot of experience with running dungeons, and while I think it is great the way they are handling the story this year, I'm kind of freaking out a bit because I feel like I HAVE to run the dungeons. If they are super complicated, I'm looking at the possibility of holding other people back due to my lack of running content like that. And that makes me less interested in attempting them. But I really don't want to miss big parts of the story...

My personal experience of this is that people won't view you as holding them back. I always helped new people in PUGs whenI run them (although often run with a guild), and I cetainly always help my low level guildies, I really like it in fact. So maybe join a guild to get dungeon ready?

I think you forget around 70% of elite PvErs are a holes and will kick you out of the group if youre not pulling your weight, they wont even offer you tips or tell you what youre meant to do

DaveMoeDee

Libonotus wrote: »

And by normal I mean the same difficulty as the old dungeons and some DLC dungeons on the normal setting. I don’t think it’s fair to have “normal” dlc dungeons be vet difficulty and vet dlc dungeons be trial difficulty. That means only a minority of the player base get to form the tablet and see Abnur Tharne

Have you played all the base game dungeons? They aren't all the same difficulty on normal, even post-One Tamriel.

Most of all, I'm not sure what "fair" has to do with it.

TerraDewBerry

When I realized they were once again doing 2 dungeon DLCs this year instead of Q1 story DLC, Q2 chapter, Q3 dungeon DLC, and Q4 story DLC (as originally they indicated would be the yearly layout when they implemented chapters (scroll down to "a new content cadence" for a review of what was "supposed to happen" each year)), I was like, "pfft.. yet another dungeon DLC I will not care about or want to do"..

Saturnana

mairwen85 wrote: »

How about this: players play the game, skill up, advance and progress until they can complete the new dungeons.

You seem to be forgetting the wide range of people that play this game, from teens to elderly and everything in between. Some are disabled, some aren't. Some can afford to dedicate a significant portion of their time to 'git gud', some can't. And then there are those for which it wouldn't make a difference either way.

If ZOS is going to extend their chapter stories into the dungeon DLCs, then those need to be playable by everyone, as the story quests are. Anyone should be able to complete the dungeons without having to go through some sort of silly training beforehand. If these DLCs follow the current trend and end up being the most difficult one in-game, even on normal - as newest DLC dungeons so often are - then a sizable chunk of the player-base is going to be sorely disappointed.

And I don't think I need to elaborate on the many many ways how that could - and eventually would - hurt the game.

FlyingSwan

Libonotus wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

mommadani907 wrote: »

My thing is I don't have a lot of experience with running dungeons, and while I think it is great the way they are handling the story this year, I'm kind of freaking out a bit because I feel like I HAVE to run the dungeons. If they are super complicated, I'm looking at the possibility of holding other people back due to my lack of running content like that. And that makes me less interested in attempting them. But I really don't want to miss big parts of the story...

My personal experience of this is that people won't view you as holding them back. I always helped new people in PUGs whenI run them (although often run with a guild), and I cetainly always help my low level guildies, I really like it in fact. So maybe join a guild to get dungeon ready?

I think you forget around 70% of elite PvErs are a holes and will kick you out of the group if youre not pulling your weight, they wont even offer you tips or tell you what youre meant to do

Not in normals, no way, because any of us 'elite' (i.e. CP capped) players can solo them anyway. Sure, if someone is not pulling their weight in a vet they stand to get kicked but the other poster was talking about just starting out.

zaria

jaws343 wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Few things here.
First off, normal mode base game dungeons (just my opinion here) should start at CP 160. DLC normal mode should start at CP300, just for the simple fact these are dungeons coming out well after the initial release of the game. This means after almost 5 years, unless you just got the game within the last 6 months, you should have "some" knowledge of your class and mechanics of your avatar and the NPC's your fighting.

DLC's are meant to be harder in normal mode because many players have been around a good while, and if they are going to pay for something (thru ESO plus or crowns or w/e) then they want something a little more challenging for the money. They have grown since the last dungeon's came out. They have done them 100's of times. They want something new, and they want something that isn't going to take 15 minutes to complete. Thereby, waiting for 3 or 6 more months till the next batch comes out.

I am mainly a PvP'er and if anyone has the right to complain it's us. Having to do PvE content where we (or maybe just myself) just don't give a crap about storylines and lore and all that. We want to get the gear that's going to help us kill other players. But ya know what? I HAVE done just about every dungeon in game in one form or another. I've done vMA, vDSA, Trails...all of that to accomplish my goal of having the best gear/tools when it comes to defeating other players.

My point is, if you want the best gear and tools for the job, ya need to work for it. Stop this sissy talk about "Story modes", man-(or woman) up and work for it. Join a guild, make new friends, do stuff together and everyone prospers. It make take you longer? But most of you are saying your "casual" anyway. So what difference does time make? Stop asking to be handed stuff simply because your not able to play as often. It's like asking for more money from your boss and saying "But I can only show up 2 days a week, instead of 5". It's not right. So please stop. Not trying to be elitest here. Just giving the simple facts of life.

Couple of things here, first of: If you bothered to read my post (OP’s) it was about making it so everyone could participate in the story, not just those that have spent a long time in the game and are gonna be able to do a vet level ‘normal’ dungeon.

Secondly, your comment was, in essence, just you glorifying yourself.

You clearly didn’t read the post and had the audacity to comment this.

New players literally just weeks into the game can complete normal DLC dungeons without issue. I know...because I have run multiple normal DLC dungeons with new players...they just arent as hard as you make them out to be.

I would love to watch players a few weeks old to the game, with zero playtime before that (not on an alt), do normal Scalecaller. Most likely, they will barely be out of level 50, or cp 160.

But most importantly, I would love to watch a run of those players without the help of a vet level player who knows the mechanics of the dungeon and the game as a whole. If I had to bet money on it, very very very few of those groups would even get passed the first boss because while that dungeon is pretty easy for Vet players on Normal, it is a pretty difficult normal mode. And the same goes for every dungeon since the Bloodroot and Falkreath DLCs.

That would be a lot like an vet clear, I took an group of below cp50 trough Fang lair granted on an pretty high cp healer but just did dungeon once in an high dps group on main.
We followed the vet guide. It helped a lot for my vet clear, simply as it was the same mechanic but more forgiving.
Now running it with an high cp group and you just burn, some standing in stupid just heal more.

Agenericname

Libonotus wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

mommadani907 wrote: »

My thing is I don't have a lot of experience with running dungeons, and while I think it is great the way they are handling the story this year, I'm kind of freaking out a bit because I feel like I HAVE to run the dungeons. If they are super complicated, I'm looking at the possibility of holding other people back due to my lack of running content like that. And that makes me less interested in attempting them. But I really don't want to miss big parts of the story...

My personal experience of this is that people won't view you as holding them back. I always helped new people in PUGs whenI run them (although often run with a guild), and I cetainly always help my low level guildies, I really like it in fact. So maybe join a guild to get dungeon ready?

I think you forget around 70% of elite PvErs are a holes and will kick you out of the group if youre not pulling your weight, they wont even offer you tips or tell you what youre meant to do

If you're referring to good players as "elites", they have no reason to kick anyone in a normal.

Libonotus

Agenericname wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

mommadani907 wrote: »

My thing is I don't have a lot of experience with running dungeons, and while I think it is great the way they are handling the story this year, I'm kind of freaking out a bit because I feel like I HAVE to run the dungeons. If they are super complicated, I'm looking at the possibility of holding other people back due to my lack of running content like that. And that makes me less interested in attempting them. But I really don't want to miss big parts of the story...

My personal experience of this is that people won't view you as holding them back. I always helped new people in PUGs whenI run them (although often run with a guild), and I cetainly always help my low level guildies, I really like it in fact. So maybe join a guild to get dungeon ready?

I think you forget around 70% of elite PvErs are a holes and will kick you out of the group if youre not pulling your weight, they wont even offer you tips or tell you what youre meant to do

If you're referring to good players as "elites", they have no reason to kick anyone in a normal.

No im referring to elite players as elite players

Libonotus

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

mommadani907 wrote: »

My thing is I don't have a lot of experience with running dungeons, and while I think it is great the way they are handling the story this year, I'm kind of freaking out a bit because I feel like I HAVE to run the dungeons. If they are super complicated, I'm looking at the possibility of holding other people back due to my lack of running content like that. And that makes me less interested in attempting them. But I really don't want to miss big parts of the story...

My personal experience of this is that people won't view you as holding them back. I always helped new people in PUGs whenI run them (although often run with a guild), and I cetainly always help my low level guildies, I really like it in fact. So maybe join a guild to get dungeon ready?

I think you forget around 70% of elite PvErs are a holes and will kick you out of the group if youre not pulling your weight, they wont even offer you tips or tell you what youre meant to do

Not in normals, no way, because any of us 'elite' (i.e. CP capped) players can solo them anyway. Sure, if someone is not pulling their weight in a vet they stand to get kicked but the other poster was talking about just starting out.

CP capped doesnt = elite.
Especially when you can easily grind CP without doing the DLC dungeons/trials or any of the hard content