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Steel Tornado.
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MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭How about learn to counter?
Something is going to kill you at some point.
Do we really need to nerf everything that kills us?
Its not jus ST, it the combination of things making it do the damage it does.
But you can't see that, you just see ST in your recap and cry about it. Not seeing it's a series of skills going off and ST is the execute.
Learn to play?
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How about learn to counter?
Something is going to kill you at some point.
Do we really need to nerf everything that kills us?
Its not jus ST, it the combination of things making it do the damage it does.
But you can't see that, you just see ST in your recap and cry about it. Not seeing it's a series of skills going off and ST is the execute.
Learn to play?
Let me ask you a different question: Does pressing two buttons really need to be that efficient, and do you think that’s great for the game?
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.4 -
Jakx✭✭✭✭✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »So what do you do against tornado? Go all defensive and heal past the execute range until they waste too much stam?
yes. not even being sarcastic.. that is the counter to EVERY execute........ the trick is knowing how to heal, and since tornado only scales up to 100% more based on missing health...
Oh I see, so you're saying if my HP bar runs out I die? I should prevent that? Oh ok and this is a counter to damage? ah. Ok well I never tried keeping my health bar up so maybe we can all try that next time we pvp.
Joined September 20135 -
Aztlan✭✭✭✭The ability has been in the game since launch, and it's already been toned down once. It's fine.Edited by Aztlan on January 16, 2019 12:28AM3 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have some kind of strange flashbacks. Same people who said Jesus Beam is OP finisher because it's undodgable are now defending steel tornado.
Some of my proposed solutions:
1. Decrease it's range to same radius as destro staff impulse and lower the cost accordingly.
2. Reduce the damage based on distance from target: full damage while closer than 50% of max skill range, 75% damage when between 50% and 75% of skill range, 50% damage when further than 75% of skill range. No cost reduction.
3. Remove the execute bonus, lower the cost accordingly.
4. Change it into AoE dot similar to poison injection (would prevent it from being spammed).Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge3 -
Trancestor✭✭✭✭✭I have some kind of strange flashbacks. Same people who said Jesus Beam is OP finisher because it's undodgable are now defending steel tornado.
Some of my proposed solutions:
1. Decrease it's range to same radius as destro staff impulse and lower the cost accordingly.
2. Reduce the damage based on distance from target: full damage while closer than 50% of max skill range, 75% damage when between 50% and 75% of skill range, 50% damage when further than 75% of skill range. No cost reduction.
3. Remove the execute bonus, lower the cost accordingly.
4. Change it into AoE dot similar to poison injection (would prevent it from being spammed).
Instead of triggering pver's, make it dodgeable again, problem solved.1 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭Trancestor wrote: »
It was a thing in bgs for those ahead of the meta. It actually became popular as a whole again when they removed aoe caps.
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barshemm✭✭✭✭Steel tornado is about the only effective counter to cloak some classes have. Even running hurricane on a stam sorc and staying right on a nb, I know ones that are good enough to cloak and get out of my hurricane in between ticks, especially when I've just had to refresh it. Thus allowing the nightblade to reset the fight and line up for his next attempt at burst. If a nightblade can repeatedly reset and burst you, the odds are more in their favor that yours, they control the fight. Hurricane is the counter to their dodge roll and cloak allowing you to get the execute. Things like reverse slice and other attacks that can be dodge are ineffective.
Spamming tornado in pvp is difficult. If you have the sustain to spam that through siphoner loaded CP and resource poisons, you don't have the damage to effectively use it. For the solo player anyway. In group, yea tornado becomes just plain deadly but no more so than the destro staff ultimate ballzerg group play was. It sucks when you get zerged down and it includes that one guy spamming tornado. But that's just the way it is. I think compared to previous metas, tornado is over all balanced.5 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Steel tornado is about the only effective counter to cloak some classes have. Even running hurricane on a stam sorc and staying right on a nb, I know ones that are good enough to cloak and get out of my hurricane in between ticks, especially when I've just had to refresh it. Thus allowing the nightblade to reset the fight and line up for his next attempt at burst. If a nightblade can repeatedly reset and burst you, the odds are more in their favor that yours, they control the fight. Hurricane is the counter to their dodge roll and cloak allowing you to get the execute. Things like reverse slice and other attacks that can be dodge are ineffective.
Spamming tornado in pvp is difficult. If you have the sustain to spam that through siphoner loaded CP and resource poisons, you don't have the damage to effectively use it. For the solo player anyway. In group, yea tornado becomes just plain deadly but no more so than the destro staff ultimate ballzerg group play was. It sucks when you get zerged down and it includes that one guy spamming tornado. But that's just the way it is. I think compared to previous metas, tornado is over all balanced.
No mate, mages light, expert hunter, piercing mark, revealing flare + detection options are the counters to cloak, steel tornado is just cheese multitool that you don't want to loose, that's all. Execute, undodgable, aoe, PB based, cloak breaking, enchants proccing, spamable, huge area skill...Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge7 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I find argument that the cost of the skill is high so its fine absolutely ridiculous
Overall steel tornado is the most efficient ability in the game probably (yes im probably also exaggerating). On average every other execute in the game comes to much higher resource drain than steel tornado for several simple reasons. Other executes can be dodged wasting the resources spent on them, they can be casted on wrong target in mayhem that some group vs group fights are and often they have to be used on each target in execute range separately. The only way steel tornado becomes inefficient resource spent is when you spam it on targets at 100% health instead of some different (cheaper) spammable and even then its still slot efficient by saving you that spammable spot on bar and much more efficient as spammable when attacking several targets than any usual single target spammable. Edited by SodanTok on January 16, 2019 11:59PM2 -
Demra✭✭✭Steel tornado is about the only effective counter to cloak some classes have. Even running hurricane on a stam sorc and staying right on a nb, I know ones that are good enough to cloak and get out of my hurricane in between ticks, especially when I've just had to refresh it. Thus allowing the nightblade to reset the fight and line up for his next attempt at burst. If a nightblade can repeatedly reset and burst you, the odds are more in their favor that yours, they control the fight. Hurricane is the counter to their dodge roll and cloak allowing you to get the execute. Things like reverse slice and other attacks that can be dodge are ineffective.
Spamming tornado in pvp is difficult. If you have the sustain to spam that through siphoner loaded CP and resource poisons, you don't have the damage to effectively use it. For the solo player anyway. In group, yea tornado becomes just plain deadly but no more so than the destro staff ultimate ballzerg group play was. It sucks when you get zerged down and it includes that one guy spamming tornado. But that's just the way it is. I think compared to previous metas, tornado is over all balanced.
No mate, mages light, expert hunter, piercing mark, revealing flare + detection options are the counters to cloak, steel tornado is just cheese multitool that you don't want to loose, that's all. Execute, undodgable, aoe, PB based, cloak breaking, enchants proccing, spamable, huge area skill...
I tried all those options and they don't work. Probably a l2p issue but i havent seen anybody else using it effective either. I have no issue with steel tornado, rarely it gets me killed (and when it does i feel its fair since i had low hp anyways) So it sounds to me like its mostly ment to counter nbs. So just put more def than the same way i suppose to use expert hunter.Edited by Demra on January 17, 2019 1:35AM1 -
barshemm✭✭✭✭
No mate, mages light, expert hunter, piercing mark, revealing flare + detection options are the counters to cloak, steel tornado is just cheese multitool that you don't want to loose, that's all. Execute, undodgable, aoe, PB based, cloak breaking, enchants proccing, spamable, huge area skill...
Other than inner light for Max mag focused builds, the rest are useless for anything other than fighting a nightblade. Having to waste a skill slot just in case you come across one class only proves how overpowered that class can be. No other class needs a direct counter slotted or pots used as a counter.
Wait nightblades don't either. A mag based build gets an advantage slotting inner light on at least one bar and stam toons can use tornado as a night blade counter and as a valid execute.
Seems balanced to me. I'm sorry there is a simple answer to avoiding allowing a Stam blade to break free, dodge roll and cloak to heal and reset every time. The best ones pull it off even against tornado anyway. Nightblade is the highest ceiling class.
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Flame_of_Hades✭✭✭Flame_of_Hades wrote: »So what do you do against tornado? Go all defensive and heal past the execute range until they waste too much stam?
yes. not even being sarcastic.. that is the counter to EVERY execute........ the trick is knowing how to heal, and since tornado only scales up to 100% more based on missing health...
Oh I see, so you're saying if my HP bar runs out I die? I should prevent that? Oh ok and this is a counter to damage? ah. Ok well I never tried keeping my health bar up so maybe we can all try that next time we pvp.
And now I can't tell if you were sarcastically agreeing with me or sarcastically trying to insult me... but yes, keep your health up, and if you can't, put more into defense. No I do not run a tank build, but as a rule I have a monster set, an offensive set, and a defensive set in every build. This should be how most builds are designed. If you are running all offensive sets, you can't really complain when you get killed.... l2b problem2 -
ST is only too strong insofar as AoE stacking ball groups are currently too strong. Major and minor evasion could be more accessible than they currently are, especially on light armor builds, and I think that would be enough to mitigate the effectiveness of steel tornado spam (and AOE stacking in general).0
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Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I find it funny how most good players who have any PvP knowledge and skill don’t have an issue with spin to win.
Why? Because anyone with a brain can tell when a stam set up is literally RUNNING towards them about to DB spin to win.
The ability cost 3.7k stam, does about low base damage only making it more when in execute and even then it’s no more than 5k 6k highest it’ll ever be. Other executes such as radiant, endless fury, impale, reverse slice etc hit 6-8k or higher.
Spin is most effective against cloak blades who spam cloak and cry relentlessly when they’re cloak is countered by anything.
Most people who complain about spin to win are people who go into cyro or BG’s with a pve build or running some kind of full divines hybrid bow destro pet sorc Role play build and get farmed.
Sorry that the facts hurt. Spin to win isn’t much of an issue if you have any decent PvP knowledge and know how to actually counter or have any awareness.
Also, dying in a 1v1 to a spin to win spammer is a complete meme. You should re-evaluate your PvP build and playstyle if you die to this..
You're right it's a super mediocre skill, which is why nobody in the top MMR BG bracket really uses it.Edit: WHOOPS sorry typo I meant it's a hella strong skill which is why every gd mother and her brother is running it in top MMR BGs. It's a freaking ballerina bloodbath wake the heck up man.
Is that all you have to say to counter my argument? No facts proving otherwise? Also I play top bracket MMR and the spin to win isn’t even the main issue in there. The main issue is the perma root tanks with ice staves.. not spin to win, as I said before. The ability itself isn’t even good. Only good when pair’d with dawnbreaker.
Not to mention once again any decent player isn’t going to just run straight into a bunch of stam characters....
here’s a tip. Don’t be a potato
Spin to win not even that good. Well, you’re certainly entitled to your own opinion.1 -
Heimpai✭✭✭✭✭People complain about stamblades but defend spin2win yet I’m seeing more and more stamblades spamming spin2win 🤔
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭People complain about stamblades but defend spin2win yet I’m seeing more and more stamblades spamming spin2win 🤔
ST stacking is the only proper way of dealing with the stamblade outbreak. Unless you're a stamsorc, then you can hurricane your way to victory. As for stamblades using ST, well I don't see them replacing stamdens or stamsorcs anytime soon for group play.Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 19, 2019 11:18AM1 -
SugaComa✭✭✭✭✭Steel tornado isn't the actual problem ... The problem is not seeing it as it can be animation canceled with no indication if it being used ... It requires 1 of two changes ... A visual ring like that you see on cold fire balistas or move the damage calculation to the end of the animation so if you cancel the animation no damage is done2
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Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I rarely ever see the skill on my death recap. If I do, it was because a huge zerg ran over me, and even then it's not even what gets me killed.2 -
Aedrion✭✭✭✭✭Yes it's a silly skill that needs to be looked at.
It's also my giant middle finger to Nightblades and their "Poof, you can't hit me now" BS.
So as long as they can pull their BS, I'll spin2win all the way to the bank.
PS: Warden snare meta didn't come from this. It came from nerfs to immunity to snares and sustain.
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Tetrafy✭✭✭✭This thread is sad, because it's just not true. I die to something lets make a nerf thread and post until it happens bois we going in!3 -
clocksstoppe✭✭✭✭✭
✭i barely ever die to tornado and i meet quite a few stam folks. seems like you have issues with getting yourself out of execute range asap. you should have an "oh ***" heal on your combo bar so you make them waste their tornados and stamina on non-execute hits3 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭It’s partially a targeting issues. If I’m on Vivec and some oceanic 500+ ping enemy player is teleporting around me like a ghost it’s better to run steel tornado if only because the alternative is much less reliable. The other situation is when I’m fighting a hit cloak every other GCD stamblade who never learned to play a proper stamina class. Other times I’m defending the inner keep from a flood of enemy players. Streak root negate spin2win while praying to Talos that the other players on my faction see what I’m doing and dump their ultimates and spins. Why run a less reliable single target execute that can be dodged or cloaked in any of these situations?
Steel tornado often feels like a necessary 😈. If anything it should deal more damage the more players I hit.Edited by Fur_like_snow on January 20, 2019 7:22PM0 -
montiferus✭✭✭✭✭The people complaining need to learn to play.
If all these forum trashcans actually put the same energy into getting better as they do about whining we might have more constructive posts on this forum to fix the actual problems that plague this game.2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This thread is sad, because it's just not true. I die to something lets make a nerf thread and post until it happens bois we going in!
With that mindset every broken thing ever could have stayed in the game...
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.4
