wheem_ESO wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

If you’re honestly dying to someone who’s only spamming s2w and you’re at 100% health, that’s an l2p issue right there bud. There’s no way around it. Literally that’s just sad dying to just s2w from 100% health.

Literally not a single person has made such a claim, so I'm not sure where you're getting this from. I even mentioned - twice - that Steel Tornado usually follows Bleeds and a Dawnbreaker (and Sub Assault if Stam Warden).

frostz417 wrote: »

Of course it’s OP with a group doing it.... but that can apply to almost anything. Magplars all Jesus beaming you at once, a bunch of snipes hitting you. People stacking destro ultimates, etc. You get the point.

You can have every single Magicka Templar in the game get together and beam the same person, and less people will die than if 2 or 3 Stamina players spam Steel Tornado a couple times after a Dawnbreaker bomb. That's what I was getting at; you stack a few AOE Executes together, and it's possible to wipe groups in just a couple globals - something you don't really see with other executes. Heck even Vicious Death has a smaller radius, if memory serves.

frostz417 wrote: »

Also, most of those stam builds who only use bleeds dawny and s2w are built only for group comp. they aren’t any good solo or if you’re in a 1v1 with them, which happens more often than not.

frostz417 wrote: »

Also, for your double bar execute I assume you’re speaking of a magden.. which is one of my favorite PvP classes, so allow me to ask. Why in the hell are you running the bear in pvp? You’re literally gimping yourself by using that silly ultimates lol. Slot northern storm, executes aren’t even needed to be a good player in PvP. My magden just does a good ol’e Beetle, LA, shock reach, LA, Elemental weapon(Or birds if you like them better), gg they’re most likely done for. I got a little of topic there but that’s just a suggestion Incase you’re having a hard time with a magden, cuz trust me I used to struggle a lot with it. Has a steeper learning curve than most other classes.

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

I find it funny how most good players who have any PvP knowledge and skill don’t have an issue with spin to win.

Why? Because anyone with a brain can tell when a stam set up is literally RUNNING towards them about to DB spin to win.
The ability cost 3.7k stam, does about low base damage only making it more when in execute and even then it’s no more than 5k 6k highest it’ll ever be. Other executes such as radiant, endless fury, impale, reverse slice etc hit 6-8k or higher.

Spin is most effective against cloak blades who spam cloak and cry relentlessly when they’re cloak is countered by anything.

Most people who complain about spin to win are people who go into cyro or BG’s with a pve build or running some kind of full divines hybrid bow destro pet sorc Role play build and get farmed.

Sorry that the facts hurt. Spin to win isn’t much of an issue if you have any decent PvP knowledge and know how to actually counter or have any awareness.

Also, dying in a 1v1 to a spin to win spammer is a complete meme. You should re-evaluate your PvP build and playstyle if you die to this..

You're right it's a super mediocre skill, which is why nobody in the top MMR BG bracket really uses it.

Edit: WHOOPS sorry typo I meant it's a hella strong skill which is why every gd mother and her brother is running it in top MMR BGs. It's a freaking ballerina bloodbath wake the heck up man.

Is that all you have to say to counter my argument? No facts proving otherwise? Also I play top bracket MMR and the spin to win isn’t even the main issue in there. The main issue is the perma root tanks with ice staves.. not spin to win, as I said before. The ability itself isn’t even good. Only good when pair’d with dawnbreaker.
Not to mention once again any decent player isn’t going to just run straight into a bunch of stam characters....
here’s a tip. Don’t be a potato

There are plenty of arguments and counterarguments already posted. I just made an appeal to the empirical. I wish we had access to hard stats but I'm pretty forkin sure DBoS is the most prevalent skill used in BGs by a country mile with Steel Tardnado coming in steamy second.

Permafrost and ice shenanigans are pretty annoying but that's generally a flavor of cheese abused by premade 4-stack tardballs.

Still not sure why you keep saying Steel Tardnado isn't good though. It's super strong. Used after DBoS, it hits harder than DBoS while also proccing bleeds and enchants.

But as a wise man once said, potatoes gonna potate. So I'll just keep throwing myself into the DBoS dogpiles like the potato I am until ZOS makes a respectable attempt to balance this mess.

Well if you’re going to keep being a no skill potato and throw yourself into a group of stamdens you deserve to get farmed and bagged. 100%
Also, I’m not saying it’s not good. I’m simply saying It ain’t as game breakingly OP as you potatoes make it seem like. It doesnt even hit NEARLY as hard as DBoS, beetles, or any other execute for that matter.

It’s arguably the most easiest skill to counter, have some awareness and know if you’re running straight into a stamden who’s like “please charge me bro, I have a thicc burst ready for you mindless potato zerglings who are dumb enough to charge head first into me”
Also, might I mention that steel tornado is a complete meme in a 1v1. If you die to steel tornado in a 1v1 you should re-evaluate your full divines hybrid bow destro pet sorc role playing build. If you think steel tornado hits hard alone you lack any knowledge. It’s the combo that makes it good. Even then common sense and combat awareness can easily make you avoid it.

If you’re going to cry about steel tornado being game breakingly OP how about we mention snipe? 40 meter dizzy swings that stun and apply major defile, can be mindlessly spammed from a safe distance and even cause a health desync.

I shall say this once again. Aquire some PvP skill and awareness and don’t be a mindless potato. L2p

You can call him a potato a bunch of times if you want, but it's not true.

All three Stamina weapon lines have an execute available yet virtually everyone in Battlegrounds uses the same one, I wonder why that is? Almost all Stam builds are now using 2h/DW, so Poison Injection is usually out straight away (barring archer builds, of course), but why use the DW execute over the 2h version? The 2h execute hits harder on a single target, and at least some classes have better ways of countering stealth (like Hurricane), but I virtually never get hit by it. 'Course, Nightblades aren't nearly as common as they used to be in the high MMR games anyway.

As I said earlier in the thread, it's as close to a spammable as is needed for many (most?) Stamina builds in Battlegrounds; stack up bleeds, Dawnbreaker, Spin-spam. When several players team up and do it together, it's not that uncommon to get some team wipes going.

'Course, I'm probably a little bitter since the only "execute" I have access to requires me to dedicate both ultimate slots, micromanage a pet, and hope he doesn't bug out and vanish (while not actually being dead). Meanwhile, Stam builds just spam one button without having to worry about accidentally targeting the wrong thing, and get the bonus of applying a DOT that is superior to mine (even if I double cast it) to other targets.

If you honestly think a stam player who just spans spin to win and only spin to win is OP... oh buddy. I’d only argue it’s Op when combo’d with dawny and beetles or other things. But in realty the skill alone isn’t that great. It’s only good being complemented with other skills. It’s literally the finisher.

If you’re honestly dying to someone who’s only spamming s2w and you’re at 100% health, that’s an l2p issue right there bud. There’s no way around it. Literally that’s just sad dying to just s2w from 100% health.

Of course it’s OP with a group doing it.... but that can apply to almost anything. Magplars all Jesus beaming you at once, a bunch of snipes hitting you. People stacking destro ultimates, etc. You get the point.

Also, most of those stam builds who only use bleeds dawny and s2w are built only for group comp. they aren’t any good solo or if you’re in a 1v1 with them, which happens more often than not.

Also, for your double bar execute I assume you’re speaking of a magden.. which is one of my favorite PvP classes, so allow me to ask. Why in the hell are you running the bear in pvp? You’re literally gimping yourself by using that silly ultimates lol. Slot northern storm, executes aren’t even needed to be a good player in PvP. My magden just does a good ol’e Beetle, LA, shock reach, LA, Elemental weapon(Or birds if you like them better), gg they’re most likely done for. I got a little of topic there but that’s just a suggestion Incase you’re having a hard time with a magden, cuz trust me I used to struggle a lot with it. Has a steeper learning curve than most other classes.

You can't look at skills in a vacuum though or the same could be said of snipe since It doesn't stun without stealth and only hits hard on builds that utilize cloak for auto crit and to hide their glass cannon setup. And since Ive seen you cry about snipe in this thread specifically I would have thought you would understand. That is literally the point. For a brain dead combo it is way powerful. Dbos, you hardly have to aim. Beatles, hardly have to aim. Spin2win yoy definitely don't have to aim. And after the Beatles and dawn breaker spin2win hits pretty hard. It's probably getting a 40% to 50% damage boost at that point against even tankier builds as the beatles and Dbos probably dropped your health at least that low.

Agree with you about magden though. Granted sometimes I'm the assist king but I tried the bear and it's execute didn't help with that cause it is delayed and you lose the utility of northern storm. But I digress, spin2win isn't necessarily over powered because it is a finisher although being an undodgeable finisher is a big perk. The skill performs very well on enemies in 70% to 40% health range too because of its properties with no need to have to think or slot a different skill. It is very effective against enemies at 70% health and under. And in the current meta it isn't even hard to get people their with bleeds, Beatles or dbos.

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

I find it funny how most good players who have any PvP knowledge and skill don’t have an issue with spin to win.

Why? Because anyone with a brain can tell when a stam set up is literally RUNNING towards them about to DB spin to win.
The ability cost 3.7k stam, does about low base damage only making it more when in execute and even then it’s no more than 5k 6k highest it’ll ever be. Other executes such as radiant, endless fury, impale, reverse slice etc hit 6-8k or higher.

Spin is most effective against cloak blades who spam cloak and cry relentlessly when they’re cloak is countered by anything.

Most people who complain about spin to win are people who go into cyro or BG’s with a pve build or running some kind of full divines hybrid bow destro pet sorc Role play build and get farmed.

Sorry that the facts hurt. Spin to win isn’t much of an issue if you have any decent PvP knowledge and know how to actually counter or have any awareness.

Also, dying in a 1v1 to a spin to win spammer is a complete meme. You should re-evaluate your PvP build and playstyle if you die to this..

You're right it's a super mediocre skill, which is why nobody in the top MMR BG bracket really uses it.

Edit: WHOOPS sorry typo I meant it's a hella strong skill which is why every gd mother and her brother is running it in top MMR BGs. It's a freaking ballerina bloodbath wake the heck up man.

Is that all you have to say to counter my argument? No facts proving otherwise? Also I play top bracket MMR and the spin to win isn’t even the main issue in there. The main issue is the perma root tanks with ice staves.. not spin to win, as I said before. The ability itself isn’t even good. Only good when pair’d with dawnbreaker.
Not to mention once again any decent player isn’t going to just run straight into a bunch of stam characters....
here’s a tip. Don’t be a potato

There are plenty of arguments and counterarguments already posted. I just made an appeal to the empirical. I wish we had access to hard stats but I'm pretty forkin sure DBoS is the most prevalent skill used in BGs by a country mile with Steel Tardnado coming in steamy second.

Permafrost and ice shenanigans are pretty annoying but that's generally a flavor of cheese abused by premade 4-stack tardballs.

Still not sure why you keep saying Steel Tardnado isn't good though. It's super strong. Used after DBoS, it hits harder than DBoS while also proccing bleeds and enchants.

But as a wise man once said, potatoes gonna potate. So I'll just keep throwing myself into the DBoS dogpiles like the potato I am until ZOS makes a respectable attempt to balance this mess.

Well if you’re going to keep being a no skill potato and throw yourself into a group of stamdens you deserve to get farmed and bagged. 100%
Also, I’m not saying it’s not good. I’m simply saying It ain’t as game breakingly OP as you potatoes make it seem like. It doesnt even hit NEARLY as hard as DBoS, beetles, or any other execute for that matter.

It’s arguably the most easiest skill to counter, have some awareness and know if you’re running straight into a stamden who’s like “please charge me bro, I have a thicc burst ready for you mindless potato zerglings who are dumb enough to charge head first into me”
Also, might I mention that steel tornado is a complete meme in a 1v1. If you die to steel tornado in a 1v1 you should re-evaluate your full divines hybrid bow destro pet sorc role playing build. If you think steel tornado hits hard alone you lack any knowledge. It’s the combo that makes it good. Even then common sense and combat awareness can easily make you avoid it.

If you’re going to cry about steel tornado being game breakingly OP how about we mention snipe? 40 meter dizzy swings that stun and apply major defile, can be mindlessly spammed from a safe distance and even cause a health desync.

I shall say this once again. Aquire some PvP skill and awareness and don’t be a mindless potato. L2p

You can call him a potato a bunch of times if you want, but it's not true.

All three Stamina weapon lines have an execute available yet virtually everyone in Battlegrounds uses the same one, I wonder why that is? Almost all Stam builds are now using 2h/DW, so Poison Injection is usually out straight away (barring archer builds, of course), but why use the DW execute over the 2h version? The 2h execute hits harder on a single target, and at least some classes have better ways of countering stealth (like Hurricane), but I virtually never get hit by it. 'Course, Nightblades aren't nearly as common as they used to be in the high MMR games anyway.

As I said earlier in the thread, it's as close to a spammable as is needed for many (most?) Stamina builds in Battlegrounds; stack up bleeds, Dawnbreaker, Spin-spam. When several players team up and do it together, it's not that uncommon to get some team wipes going.

'Course, I'm probably a little bitter since the only "execute" I have access to requires me to dedicate both ultimate slots, micromanage a pet, and hope he doesn't bug out and vanish (while not actually being dead). Meanwhile, Stam builds just spam one button without having to worry about accidentally targeting the wrong thing, and get the bonus of applying a DOT that is superior to mine (even if I double cast it) to other targets.

If you honestly think a stam player who just spans spin to win and only spin to win is OP... oh buddy. I’d only argue it’s Op when combo’d with dawny and beetles or other things. But in realty the skill alone isn’t that great. It’s only good being complemented with other skills. It’s literally the finisher.

If you’re honestly dying to someone who’s only spamming s2w and you’re at 100% health, that’s an l2p issue right there bud. There’s no way around it. Literally that’s just sad dying to just s2w from 100% health.

Of course it’s OP with a group doing it.... but that can apply to almost anything. Magplars all Jesus beaming you at once, a bunch of snipes hitting you. People stacking destro ultimates, etc. You get the point.

Also, most of those stam builds who only use bleeds dawny and s2w are built only for group comp. they aren’t any good solo or if you’re in a 1v1 with them, which happens more often than not.

Also, for your double bar execute I assume you’re speaking of a magden.. which is one of my favorite PvP classes, so allow me to ask. Why in the hell are you running the bear in pvp? You’re literally gimping yourself by using that silly ultimates lol. Slot northern storm, executes aren’t even needed to be a good player in PvP. My magden just does a good ol’e Beetle, LA, shock reach, LA, Elemental weapon(Or birds if you like them better), gg they’re most likely done for. I got a little of topic there but that’s just a suggestion Incase you’re having a hard time with a magden, cuz trust me I used to struggle a lot with it. Has a steeper learning curve than most other classes.

You can't look at skills in a vacuum though or the same could be said of snipe since It doesn't stun without stealth and only hits hard on builds that utilize cloak for auto crit and to hide their glass cannon setup. And since Ive seen you cry about snipe in this thread specifically I would have thought you would understand. That is literally the point. For a brain dead combo it is way powerful. Dbos, you hardly have to aim. Beatles, hardly have to aim. Spin2win yoy definitely don't have to aim. And after the Beatles and dawn breaker spin2win hits pretty hard. It's probably getting a 40% to 50% damage boost at that point against even tankier builds as the beatles and Dbos probably dropped your health at least that low.

Agree with you about magden though. Granted sometimes I'm the assist king but I tried the bear and it's execute didn't help with that cause it is delayed and you lose the utility of northern storm. But I digress, spin2win isn't necessarily over powered because it is a finisher although being an undodgeable finisher is a big perk. The skill performs very well on enemies in 70% to 40% health range too because of its properties with no need to have to think or slot a different skill. It is very effective against enemies at 70% health and under. And in the current meta it isn't even hard to get people their with bleeds, Beatles or dbos.

The undogable is what makes it so popular. But it’s a reasonable counter against rolly Polly cloak cry blades. Since they just spam roll dodge and cloak.

Also, s2w isn’t effective until you’re atleast 40% which is even debatable. Honestly dying to s2w at 70% health is a flat out l2p issue. Even with the procs it doesn’t do enough damage to just kill you. It’s the combo that makes it good as you mentioned. DBoS, beetles and the finisher. You’re already low and kinda deserved to die then if you decided to just let someone hit you with such a telegraphed burst.

Also, I won’t disagree that it’s a skilless combo, however it has more drawbacks than snipe does. But that’s a different argument entirely imo.

You love straw manning don't you? No one said it was killing you at 70% it just becomes viable as a spamable a lot sooner than you want to claim. Not necessarily as in execute high damage but a 30% to 40% damage increase puts it in the neighborhood of other spammables with no need to slot 2 different skills, or 3 really as it works as you anti cloak, spamable, and finisher. That is a lot of utility in one skill. Nothing else comes close to that utility.

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

I find it funny how most good players who have any PvP knowledge and skill don’t have an issue with spin to win.

Why? Because anyone with a brain can tell when a stam set up is literally RUNNING towards them about to DB spin to win.
The ability cost 3.7k stam, does about low base damage only making it more when in execute and even then it’s no more than 5k 6k highest it’ll ever be. Other executes such as radiant, endless fury, impale, reverse slice etc hit 6-8k or higher.

Spin is most effective against cloak blades who spam cloak and cry relentlessly when they’re cloak is countered by anything.

Most people who complain about spin to win are people who go into cyro or BG’s with a pve build or running some kind of full divines hybrid bow destro pet sorc Role play build and get farmed.

Sorry that the facts hurt. Spin to win isn’t much of an issue if you have any decent PvP knowledge and know how to actually counter or have any awareness.

Also, dying in a 1v1 to a spin to win spammer is a complete meme. You should re-evaluate your PvP build and playstyle if you die to this..

You're right it's a super mediocre skill, which is why nobody in the top MMR BG bracket really uses it.

Edit: WHOOPS sorry typo I meant it's a hella strong skill which is why every gd mother and her brother is running it in top MMR BGs. It's a freaking ballerina bloodbath wake the heck up man.

Is that all you have to say to counter my argument? No facts proving otherwise? Also I play top bracket MMR and the spin to win isn’t even the main issue in there. The main issue is the perma root tanks with ice staves.. not spin to win, as I said before. The ability itself isn’t even good. Only good when pair’d with dawnbreaker.
Not to mention once again any decent player isn’t going to just run straight into a bunch of stam characters....
here’s a tip. Don’t be a potato

There are plenty of arguments and counterarguments already posted. I just made an appeal to the empirical. I wish we had access to hard stats but I'm pretty forkin sure DBoS is the most prevalent skill used in BGs by a country mile with Steel Tardnado coming in steamy second.

Permafrost and ice shenanigans are pretty annoying but that's generally a flavor of cheese abused by premade 4-stack tardballs.

Still not sure why you keep saying Steel Tardnado isn't good though. It's super strong. Used after DBoS, it hits harder than DBoS while also proccing bleeds and enchants.

But as a wise man once said, potatoes gonna potate. So I'll just keep throwing myself into the DBoS dogpiles like the potato I am until ZOS makes a respectable attempt to balance this mess.

Well if you’re going to keep being a no skill potato and throw yourself into a group of stamdens you deserve to get farmed and bagged. 100%
Also, I’m not saying it’s not good. I’m simply saying It ain’t as game breakingly OP as you potatoes make it seem like. It doesnt even hit NEARLY as hard as DBoS, beetles, or any other execute for that matter.

It’s arguably the most easiest skill to counter, have some awareness and know if you’re running straight into a stamden who’s like “please charge me bro, I have a thicc burst ready for you mindless potato zerglings who are dumb enough to charge head first into me”
Also, might I mention that steel tornado is a complete meme in a 1v1. If you die to steel tornado in a 1v1 you should re-evaluate your full divines hybrid bow destro pet sorc role playing build. If you think steel tornado hits hard alone you lack any knowledge. It’s the combo that makes it good. Even then common sense and combat awareness can easily make you avoid it.

If you’re going to cry about steel tornado being game breakingly OP how about we mention snipe? 40 meter dizzy swings that stun and apply major defile, can be mindlessly spammed from a safe distance and even cause a health desync.

I shall say this once again. Aquire some PvP skill and awareness and don’t be a mindless potato. L2p

You can call him a potato a bunch of times if you want, but it's not true.

All three Stamina weapon lines have an execute available yet virtually everyone in Battlegrounds uses the same one, I wonder why that is? Almost all Stam builds are now using 2h/DW, so Poison Injection is usually out straight away (barring archer builds, of course), but why use the DW execute over the 2h version? The 2h execute hits harder on a single target, and at least some classes have better ways of countering stealth (like Hurricane), but I virtually never get hit by it. 'Course, Nightblades aren't nearly as common as they used to be in the high MMR games anyway.

As I said earlier in the thread, it's as close to a spammable as is needed for many (most?) Stamina builds in Battlegrounds; stack up bleeds, Dawnbreaker, Spin-spam. When several players team up and do it together, it's not that uncommon to get some team wipes going.

'Course, I'm probably a little bitter since the only "execute" I have access to requires me to dedicate both ultimate slots, micromanage a pet, and hope he doesn't bug out and vanish (while not actually being dead). Meanwhile, Stam builds just spam one button without having to worry about accidentally targeting the wrong thing, and get the bonus of applying a DOT that is superior to mine (even if I double cast it) to other targets.

If you honestly think a stam player who just spans spin to win and only spin to win is OP... oh buddy. I’d only argue it’s Op when combo’d with dawny and beetles or other things. But in realty the skill alone isn’t that great. It’s only good being complemented with other skills. It’s literally the finisher.

If you’re honestly dying to someone who’s only spamming s2w and you’re at 100% health, that’s an l2p issue right there bud. There’s no way around it. Literally that’s just sad dying to just s2w from 100% health.

Of course it’s OP with a group doing it.... but that can apply to almost anything. Magplars all Jesus beaming you at once, a bunch of snipes hitting you. People stacking destro ultimates, etc. You get the point.

Also, most of those stam builds who only use bleeds dawny and s2w are built only for group comp. they aren’t any good solo or if you’re in a 1v1 with them, which happens more often than not.

Also, for your double bar execute I assume you’re speaking of a magden.. which is one of my favorite PvP classes, so allow me to ask. Why in the hell are you running the bear in pvp? You’re literally gimping yourself by using that silly ultimates lol. Slot northern storm, executes aren’t even needed to be a good player in PvP. My magden just does a good ol’e Beetle, LA, shock reach, LA, Elemental weapon(Or birds if you like them better), gg they’re most likely done for. I got a little of topic there but that’s just a suggestion Incase you’re having a hard time with a magden, cuz trust me I used to struggle a lot with it. Has a steeper learning curve than most other classes.

You can't look at skills in a vacuum though or the same could be said of snipe since It doesn't stun without stealth and only hits hard on builds that utilize cloak for auto crit and to hide their glass cannon setup. And since Ive seen you cry about snipe in this thread specifically I would have thought you would understand. That is literally the point. For a brain dead combo it is way powerful. Dbos, you hardly have to aim. Beatles, hardly have to aim. Spin2win yoy definitely don't have to aim. And after the Beatles and dawn breaker spin2win hits pretty hard. It's probably getting a 40% to 50% damage boost at that point against even tankier builds as the beatles and Dbos probably dropped your health at least that low.

Agree with you about magden though. Granted sometimes I'm the assist king but I tried the bear and it's execute didn't help with that cause it is delayed and you lose the utility of northern storm. But I digress, spin2win isn't necessarily over powered because it is a finisher although being an undodgeable finisher is a big perk. The skill performs very well on enemies in 70% to 40% health range too because of its properties with no need to have to think or slot a different skill. It is very effective against enemies at 70% health and under. And in the current meta it isn't even hard to get people their with bleeds, Beatles or dbos.

The undogable is what makes it so popular. But it’s a reasonable counter against rolly Polly cloak cry blades. Since they just spam roll dodge and cloak.

Also, s2w isn’t effective until you’re atleast 40% which is even debatable. Honestly dying to s2w at 70% health is a flat out l2p issue. Even with the procs it doesn’t do enough damage to just kill you. It’s the combo that makes it good as you mentioned. DBoS, beetles and the finisher. You’re already low and kinda deserved to die then if you decided to just let someone hit you with such a telegraphed burst.

Also, I won’t disagree that it’s a skilless combo, however it has more drawbacks than snipe does. But that’s a different argument entirely imo.

You love straw manning don't you? No one said it was killing you at 70% it just becomes viable as a spamable a lot sooner than you want to claim. Not necessarily as in execute high damage but a 30% to 40% damage increase puts it in the neighborhood of other spammables with no need to slot 2 different skills, or 3 really as it works as you anti cloak, spamable, and finisher. That is a lot of utility in one skill. Nothing else comes close to that utility.

Nobody said it was killing at 70% huh, how about reading those who say how it’s an OP spammable. Not to mention if you read the tooltip. It’s damage is increased at 50%. Dw passives kick in at 25% health.
Essentially, using it when an enemy is 100-50% health is just silly. If you’re health is dropping low to 50% from just enchants and bleeds well I guess people don’t know how to heal. Honestly there’s nothing else that needs to be said about that.
I’ll acknowledge it does its job well as a execute, but as a spammable that’s just a meme.

Thanks for proving your ignorance and lack of general reading comprehension. The exact wording on the tool tip on live reads:

"Launch yourself into a lethal spin, dealing X physical Damage to nearby enemies. DEALS UP TO 100% MORE DAMAGE TO ENEMIES BASED ON EACH PERCENTAGE OF THEIR MISSING HEALTH."

Nothing about 50% health there.

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

I find it funny how most good players who have any PvP knowledge and skill don’t have an issue with spin to win.

Why? Because anyone with a brain can tell when a stam set up is literally RUNNING towards them about to DB spin to win.
The ability cost 3.7k stam, does about low base damage only making it more when in execute and even then it’s no more than 5k 6k highest it’ll ever be. Other executes such as radiant, endless fury, impale, reverse slice etc hit 6-8k or higher.

Spin is most effective against cloak blades who spam cloak and cry relentlessly when they’re cloak is countered by anything.

Most people who complain about spin to win are people who go into cyro or BG’s with a pve build or running some kind of full divines hybrid bow destro pet sorc Role play build and get farmed.

Sorry that the facts hurt. Spin to win isn’t much of an issue if you have any decent PvP knowledge and know how to actually counter or have any awareness.

Also, dying in a 1v1 to a spin to win spammer is a complete meme. You should re-evaluate your PvP build and playstyle if you die to this..

You're right it's a super mediocre skill, which is why nobody in the top MMR BG bracket really uses it.

Edit: WHOOPS sorry typo I meant it's a hella strong skill which is why every gd mother and her brother is running it in top MMR BGs. It's a freaking ballerina bloodbath wake the heck up man.

Is that all you have to say to counter my argument? No facts proving otherwise? Also I play top bracket MMR and the spin to win isn’t even the main issue in there. The main issue is the perma root tanks with ice staves.. not spin to win, as I said before. The ability itself isn’t even good. Only good when pair’d with dawnbreaker.
Not to mention once again any decent player isn’t going to just run straight into a bunch of stam characters....
here’s a tip. Don’t be a potato

There are plenty of arguments and counterarguments already posted. I just made an appeal to the empirical. I wish we had access to hard stats but I'm pretty forkin sure DBoS is the most prevalent skill used in BGs by a country mile with Steel Tardnado coming in steamy second.

Permafrost and ice shenanigans are pretty annoying but that's generally a flavor of cheese abused by premade 4-stack tardballs.

Still not sure why you keep saying Steel Tardnado isn't good though. It's super strong. Used after DBoS, it hits harder than DBoS while also proccing bleeds and enchants.

But as a wise man once said, potatoes gonna potate. So I'll just keep throwing myself into the DBoS dogpiles like the potato I am until ZOS makes a respectable attempt to balance this mess.

Well if you’re going to keep being a no skill potato and throw yourself into a group of stamdens you deserve to get farmed and bagged. 100%
Also, I’m not saying it’s not good. I’m simply saying It ain’t as game breakingly OP as you potatoes make it seem like. It doesnt even hit NEARLY as hard as DBoS, beetles, or any other execute for that matter.

It’s arguably the most easiest skill to counter, have some awareness and know if you’re running straight into a stamden who’s like “please charge me bro, I have a thicc burst ready for you mindless potato zerglings who are dumb enough to charge head first into me”
Also, might I mention that steel tornado is a complete meme in a 1v1. If you die to steel tornado in a 1v1 you should re-evaluate your full divines hybrid bow destro pet sorc role playing build. If you think steel tornado hits hard alone you lack any knowledge. It’s the combo that makes it good. Even then common sense and combat awareness can easily make you avoid it.

If you’re going to cry about steel tornado being game breakingly OP how about we mention snipe? 40 meter dizzy swings that stun and apply major defile, can be mindlessly spammed from a safe distance and even cause a health desync.

I shall say this once again. Aquire some PvP skill and awareness and don’t be a mindless potato. L2p

You can call him a potato a bunch of times if you want, but it's not true.

All three Stamina weapon lines have an execute available yet virtually everyone in Battlegrounds uses the same one, I wonder why that is? Almost all Stam builds are now using 2h/DW, so Poison Injection is usually out straight away (barring archer builds, of course), but why use the DW execute over the 2h version? The 2h execute hits harder on a single target, and at least some classes have better ways of countering stealth (like Hurricane), but I virtually never get hit by it. 'Course, Nightblades aren't nearly as common as they used to be in the high MMR games anyway.

As I said earlier in the thread, it's as close to a spammable as is needed for many (most?) Stamina builds in Battlegrounds; stack up bleeds, Dawnbreaker, Spin-spam. When several players team up and do it together, it's not that uncommon to get some team wipes going.

'Course, I'm probably a little bitter since the only "execute" I have access to requires me to dedicate both ultimate slots, micromanage a pet, and hope he doesn't bug out and vanish (while not actually being dead). Meanwhile, Stam builds just spam one button without having to worry about accidentally targeting the wrong thing, and get the bonus of applying a DOT that is superior to mine (even if I double cast it) to other targets.

If you honestly think a stam player who just spans spin to win and only spin to win is OP... oh buddy. I’d only argue it’s Op when combo’d with dawny and beetles or other things. But in realty the skill alone isn’t that great. It’s only good being complemented with other skills. It’s literally the finisher.

If you’re honestly dying to someone who’s only spamming s2w and you’re at 100% health, that’s an l2p issue right there bud. There’s no way around it. Literally that’s just sad dying to just s2w from 100% health.

Of course it’s OP with a group doing it.... but that can apply to almost anything. Magplars all Jesus beaming you at once, a bunch of snipes hitting you. People stacking destro ultimates, etc. You get the point.

Also, most of those stam builds who only use bleeds dawny and s2w are built only for group comp. they aren’t any good solo or if you’re in a 1v1 with them, which happens more often than not.

Also, for your double bar execute I assume you’re speaking of a magden.. which is one of my favorite PvP classes, so allow me to ask. Why in the hell are you running the bear in pvp? You’re literally gimping yourself by using that silly ultimates lol. Slot northern storm, executes aren’t even needed to be a good player in PvP. My magden just does a good ol’e Beetle, LA, shock reach, LA, Elemental weapon(Or birds if you like them better), gg they’re most likely done for. I got a little of topic there but that’s just a suggestion Incase you’re having a hard time with a magden, cuz trust me I used to struggle a lot with it. Has a steeper learning curve than most other classes.

You can't look at skills in a vacuum though or the same could be said of snipe since It doesn't stun without stealth and only hits hard on builds that utilize cloak for auto crit and to hide their glass cannon setup. And since Ive seen you cry about snipe in this thread specifically I would have thought you would understand. That is literally the point. For a brain dead combo it is way powerful. Dbos, you hardly have to aim. Beatles, hardly have to aim. Spin2win yoy definitely don't have to aim. And after the Beatles and dawn breaker spin2win hits pretty hard. It's probably getting a 40% to 50% damage boost at that point against even tankier builds as the beatles and Dbos probably dropped your health at least that low.

Agree with you about magden though. Granted sometimes I'm the assist king but I tried the bear and it's execute didn't help with that cause it is delayed and you lose the utility of northern storm. But I digress, spin2win isn't necessarily over powered because it is a finisher although being an undodgeable finisher is a big perk. The skill performs very well on enemies in 70% to 40% health range too because of its properties with no need to have to think or slot a different skill. It is very effective against enemies at 70% health and under. And in the current meta it isn't even hard to get people their with bleeds, Beatles or dbos.

The undogable is what makes it so popular. But it’s a reasonable counter against rolly Polly cloak cry blades. Since they just spam roll dodge and cloak.

Also, s2w isn’t effective until you’re atleast 40% which is even debatable. Honestly dying to s2w at 70% health is a flat out l2p issue. Even with the procs it doesn’t do enough damage to just kill you. It’s the combo that makes it good as you mentioned. DBoS, beetles and the finisher. You’re already low and kinda deserved to die then if you decided to just let someone hit you with such a telegraphed burst.

Also, I won’t disagree that it’s a skilless combo, however it has more drawbacks than snipe does. But that’s a different argument entirely imo.

You love straw manning don't you? No one said it was killing you at 70% it just becomes viable as a spamable a lot sooner than you want to claim. Not necessarily as in execute high damage but a 30% to 40% damage increase puts it in the neighborhood of other spammables with no need to slot 2 different skills, or 3 really as it works as you anti cloak, spamable, and finisher. That is a lot of utility in one skill. Nothing else comes close to that utility.

Nobody said it was killing at 70% huh, how about reading those who say how it’s an OP spammable. Not to mention if you read the tooltip. It’s damage is increased at 50%. Dw passives kick in at 25% health.
Essentially, using it when an enemy is 100-50% health is just silly. If you’re health is dropping low to 50% from just enchants and bleeds well I guess people don’t know how to heal. Honestly there’s nothing else that needs to be said about that.
I’ll acknowledge it does its job well as a execute, but as a spammable that’s just a meme.

Thanks for proving your ignorance and lack of general reading comprehension. The exact wording on the tool tip on live reads:

"Launch yourself into a lethal spin, dealing X physical Damage to nearby enemies. DEALS UP TO 100% MORE DAMAGE TO ENEMIES BASED ON EACH PERCENTAGE OF THEIR MISSING HEALTH."

Nothing about 50% health there.

It’s been tested. Does literally noodle damage unless under 50%.. just the tooltip damage.
So I will say it once again because potato’s can’t read. L2p.
Jesus Christ, honestly the millions of nerf threads are what ruin the darn game. Bunch of casual zerglings begging for anything that kills them to be nerfed.
“This guy killed me when we were Xv1’ing him. I demand this to be nerfed.

I honestly don't care much about this skill. But being dishonest isn't helping your case. Just tested on live and it works like the tool tip says. Sure you can apply some arbitrary thrushold at which point you think it becomes viable but the skill is working as stated.

There is a reason why spin2win is a thing and impulse isn't. Impulse is actually cheaper and still does aoe with no need to aim. But it's damage doesn't scale the same way as spin2win. So the way it's damage scales is obviously a factor. Would it be okay if impulse got the same treatment?

Also I'm not sure if spin2win needs a nerf or if other mechanics need tweaked instead or other things buffed up to be on the same level. I'd prefer the latter. Spin2win isn't an issue at all on any toon that has access to major evasion since it is always paired with other AOEs as well. But access to that buff is limited. For instance spamable gap closers mean spin2win is always on top of my magden and can definitely be a problem. But shimmering shield and birds lets me eat snipers all day. While slotting quick cloak on a stam toon lets me shrug off the spin2win combo easy then eat them. Now some of the rock, paper, scissors is to be expected but right now the game heavily favors spinning rocks. Mag has a severe lack of access to the two most important pvp tools imo of snare immunity and major evasion. Both of which make your mantra of "just dont let a spin2win get on top of you" sound really ignorant or you only play open world where you can pick every ecounter.

Also you keep bringing up 1v1 yet complain about snipe? 1v1 doesn't exist in the game outside of duels. Snipe is trash in duels as well too by your logic. (Still is trash in BGs most the time too if anyone has any awareness whatsoever) Your dishonesty and bias in all your posts is obvious. Spin2win is probably only really powerful in BGs where you have to fight for objectives or go into the scrum so one team doesn't just farm the other. You can't make them come to you cause of the 3 team decision. And since cyro is hot garbage lag fest or horse simulator yes BGs should be weighted heavily in balance decisions.