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Eso, Gambling And You
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MilwaukeeScott wrote: »I just want you to understand how silly and childish most of us see you as.
Exactly my thoughts when reading this thread. It really is no different than the others.2 -
Hoolielulu✭✭✭✭✭Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Gambling is only a thing because of lobbying and corruption. It's only a thing here because of laws that worship corporations and very few that protect people.
Though making light of addiction to gambling and the psychosomatic mechanics and reward systems that make people get addicted to these intentionally is highly inaccurate and cruel and makes those informed see YOU as the immature one.
Gambling FAR pre-dates lobbying and in fact goes as far back as documented records. It has been around a LOT longer than anyone's soapbox...
It doesn't pre-date law and enforcement though. The concept of certain individuals looking the other way because of bribes also goes back a very very long way.
Gambling dates back to 3000BC. And that's only as far as we can trace it.
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Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The abusive character of ingame gambling rests in avoiding casino-like income taxes.1 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't care if it is or isn't gambling but if you're old enough you'd remember a time where EVERYTHING in the games was earned by playing the games.
The fact that parts of games (costumes, mounts, etc.) get carved out and stuck in loot boxes is the real issue. The whole gambling debate is a straw man argument that is easy to counter while you avoid dealing with the real issue.
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Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hmmm, shouldn’t y’all focus on EA because that’s Pay 2 Win. Crown Crates on the other hand? That’s just cosmetics. Stop getting your panties in a bunch.0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »Hmmm, shouldn’t y’all focus on EA because that’s Pay 2 Win. Crown Crates on the other hand? That’s just cosmetics. Stop getting your panties in a bunch.
It does have p2w mechanics, just not for pvp you pay real $ so you don't have to wait 12 months to research everything like other people have done2 -
Perwulf✭✭✭✭✭It does have p2w mechanics, just not for pvp you pay real $ so you don't have to wait 12 months to research everything like other people have done
I remember those days but all I have to do is simply ask in my guild (free), friend list (free/paid), & zone chat(free/paid.) and even if paid, it doesn't cost that much.
I don't know what's P2W in that. There's also the fact that you can hasten up the research by purchasing 1 day research at Roris Hlaluu and 1 day jewelry at the woman beside him.
Edited by Perwulf on December 16, 2018 1:18AM"Monsters doesn't exist, we create them"0 -
Horowonnoe✭✭✭✭✭I just don't buy anything. Ez. Problem solved.PC / NA
Templar Healer "False Eye"
Sorc Healer "Potema the Wolf Queen"
Warden Healer "Heavy Attacks Online"
Magicka Nightblade DPS "Nephaleth Telvanni"
Dragonknight Tank "Nico's Facsimile"
Builds & Guides:
Horow's Templar Healer Guide for Trials (Murkmire updated)
How to get Felms to jump correctly in vAS HM?
Horow's vMA Magicka Sorc Build for beginners and lazy farmers
Horow's Magicka Sorc Triple Pet Heavy Attack Build - Summerset Isles Ready
More builds at anthem-guild.com/pve/.
Notable Achievements:
- World's first 18 Axes vAA clear
- World's first 20+ enrage stack Llothis in vAS HM and World record cone damage1 -
Haquor✭✭✭✭✭MilwaukeeScott wrote: »Terms Of Service
"By using any ZeniMax Services, You affirm that (i) You are at least 18 years of age (or have reached the age of majority if that is not 18 years of age where You live)"
Unless the society you live in is run by religious leaders, you are surrounded by gambling.
In the USA where I live, we have a National Lottery. There are casinos spread throughout our country. I live within walking distance of one. Our TV and Radio airwaves are full of sports betting ads. My corner grocery store runs a weekly raffle as do most of your in game Guilds.
Again, you are surrounded by gambling.
Instead of closing your local casino or protesting Piggly Wigglys Turkey raffle, you chose to come to these forums and proclaim the end of civilization because a Frost Mount cost 600 gems.
This leads most of us to believe you are either very immature and are clueless to the happenings of the adult world or looking for a Soap Box issue because you need/like the attention. I tend to believe the latter.
I don't expect you to stop. I doubt very much that you could stop. You have already stated that you have little to no self control.
I just want you to understand how silly and childish most of us see you as.
Gambling is good because its everywhere guys.2 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭MilwaukeeScott wrote: »Terms Of Service
"By using any ZeniMax Services, You affirm that (i) You are at least 18 years of age (or have reached the age of majority if that is not 18 years of age where You live)"
Unless the society you live in is run by religious leaders, you are surrounded by gambling.
In the USA where I live, we have a National Lottery. There are casinos spread throughout our country. I live within walking distance of one. Our TV and Radio airwaves are full of sports betting ads. My corner grocery store runs a weekly raffle as do most of your in game Guilds.
Again, you are surrounded by gambling.
Instead of closing your local casino or protesting Piggly Wigglys Turkey raffle, you chose to come to these forums and proclaim the end of civilization because a Frost Mount cost 600 gems.
This leads most of us to believe you are either very immature and are clueless to the happenings of the adult world or looking for a Soap Box issue because you need/like the attention. I tend to believe the latter.
I don't expect you to stop. I doubt very much that you could stop. You have already stated that you have little to no self control.
I just want you to understand how silly and childish most of us see you as.
Gambling is good because its everywhere guys.
Going to a casino and complaining about gambling is pretty dull.1 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MilwaukeeScott wrote: »This leads most of us to believe you are either very immature and are clueless to the happenings of the adult world or looking for a Soap Box issue because you need/like the attention. I tend to believe the latter.
I'm a bit confused. You imply that you are mature, generally have a clue and are not here to show off your soap box, yet you seem to have no grasp on the concept of addiction.
May i suggest some edufiction:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction
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Delsanab14_ESO✭✭✭✭Hoolielulu wrote: »Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Gambling is only a thing because of lobbying and corruption. It's only a thing here because of laws that worship corporations and very few that protect people.
Though making light of addiction to gambling and the psychosomatic mechanics and reward systems that make people get addicted to these intentionally is highly inaccurate and cruel and makes those informed see YOU as the immature one.
Gambling FAR pre-dates lobbying and in fact goes as far back as documented records. It has been around a LOT longer than anyone's soapbox...
It doesn't pre-date law and enforcement though. The concept of certain individuals looking the other way because of bribes also goes back a very very long way.
Gambling dates back to 3000BC. And that's only as far as we can trace it.
And law goes back to "I am the leader, listen to my rules or I will club you to death, which historically goes back much farther before the concept of currency was even a thing."Account: @Delsana
FREE CRAFTING (NA PC) SIDENOTE: Hel'phaer is a Grand Master Crafter with almost every motif (excluding Buoyant, Meridian, Coldsnap, Grim Harlequin, Tsaesci, Pellitine, and Elder Argonian because can't afford it) and will craft attractive quality and visually appealing training gear or combat sets for those interested. FREE gear for players below CP 160 (equivalent level of 210), and paid gear in some form from those CP 160 or higher.0 -
TheInfernalRage✭✭✭✭✭It seems every time I'm in the forums, the whine meter is always increased. Whining about crates is normal. Placing the SJW elements of "gambling addiction makes me entitled to whine whenever traces of gambling appears" is so *** not normal.
OH MY GOD. Pacrooti really got on the nerves of some people.3 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »It seems every time I'm in the forums, the whine meter is always increased. Whining about crates is normal. Placing the SJW elements of "gambling addiction makes me entitled to whine whenever traces of gambling appears" is so *** not normal.
OH MY GOD. Pacrooti really got on the nerves of some people.
Yeah. Seems so. I really love Pacrooti. One of my girls isn't getting his letters any more, and we're really bummed.1 -
Delsanab14_ESO✭✭✭✭As an aside, in case people didn't know this, numerous court cases and cases on the docket for the future in the US and other countries already exist for loot crates, some like with Hawaii that want to restrict games with gambling mechanics such as loot crates from being accessible to anyone under 21, some that want to apply the full force of gambling legislations, and others still that want to go farther.
Regulation will eventually occur and they're banned in Belgium.Account: @Delsana
FREE CRAFTING (NA PC) SIDENOTE: Hel'phaer is a Grand Master Crafter with almost every motif (excluding Buoyant, Meridian, Coldsnap, Grim Harlequin, Tsaesci, Pellitine, and Elder Argonian because can't afford it) and will craft attractive quality and visually appealing training gear or combat sets for those interested. FREE gear for players below CP 160 (equivalent level of 210), and paid gear in some form from those CP 160 or higher.2 -
Delsanab14_ESO✭✭✭✭TheInfernalRage wrote: »It seems every time I'm in the forums, the whine meter is always increased. Whining about crates is normal. Placing the SJW elements of "gambling addiction makes me entitled to whine whenever traces of gambling appears" is so *** not normal.
OH MY GOD. Pacrooti really got on the nerves of some people.
And I meantime find people calling anything out they disagree with as whine, blaming nonexistent SJW's, distorting reality, and actively ignoring the influences and negativity of game companies and in particular Zenimax's gambling mechanics and intentional addictive systems.Sylvermynx wrote: »TheInfernalRage wrote: »It seems every time I'm in the forums, the whine meter is always increased. Whining about crates is normal. Placing the SJW elements of "gambling addiction makes me entitled to whine whenever traces of gambling appears" is so *** not normal.
OH MY GOD. Pacrooti really got on the nerves of some people.
Yeah. Seems so. I really love Pacrooti. One of my girls isn't getting his letters any more, and we're really bummed.
Given Pacrooti is literally a person against Skooma addicts and Skooma itself, it is tone-deaf by Zenimax to have him as the representative for Crown Crates gambling sales.Account: @Delsana
FREE CRAFTING (NA PC) SIDENOTE: Hel'phaer is a Grand Master Crafter with almost every motif (excluding Buoyant, Meridian, Coldsnap, Grim Harlequin, Tsaesci, Pellitine, and Elder Argonian because can't afford it) and will craft attractive quality and visually appealing training gear or combat sets for those interested. FREE gear for players below CP 160 (equivalent level of 210), and paid gear in some form from those CP 160 or higher.3 -
myskyrim26 wrote: »WhyMustItBe wrote: »myskyrim26 wrote: »WhyMustItBe wrote: »Right. Because anyone that is against predatory marketing tactics exploiting gambling addiction MUST just be "whining because they can't afford things." Nice logic.
Anyone who is againts something can just pass by. Cosmetics is not necessary to play ESO. You don't like the way it is sold? Pass by - that's simple.
What you are saying is basically the same as seeing someone on the street being mugged by a thief, and since it doesn't affect you personally, that you shouldn't be upset, call the police, or say anything at all. You should just walk on by.
Some people are concerned with things beyond their own self interest. Difficult as it is to understand I know.
Hah, ok... I only can affrod this: I pay for ESO+. Now I get my benefits including 1500 crowns. And now I buy Crown Crates. And I have costumes, and mounts, and pets and what not - all things I can't afford to by with my real money. So, who is concerned about just himself now? Maybe it's you? A lot of people enjoy crown crates. A lot of people even can't afford ESO+ and they watch streams for Ouroboros drops. And they are grateful for the opportunity to have gems. A lot of such people in my country. Majority of ESO players from my country, I should say.
And now what about you? How do you suffer so much because of crates?
Problem is, everything good you can get in the game is in the Crown Store, being sold for real money. You even have to pay to change your character's appearance. It's ridiculous.3 -
Delsanab14_ESO✭✭✭✭Ashilda_Dragonheart wrote: »myskyrim26 wrote: »WhyMustItBe wrote: »myskyrim26 wrote: »WhyMustItBe wrote: »Right. Because anyone that is against predatory marketing tactics exploiting gambling addiction MUST just be "whining because they can't afford things." Nice logic.
Anyone who is againts something can just pass by. Cosmetics is not necessary to play ESO. You don't like the way it is sold? Pass by - that's simple.
What you are saying is basically the same as seeing someone on the street being mugged by a thief, and since it doesn't affect you personally, that you shouldn't be upset, call the police, or say anything at all. You should just walk on by.
Some people are concerned with things beyond their own self interest. Difficult as it is to understand I know.
Hah, ok... I only can affrod this: I pay for ESO+. Now I get my benefits including 1500 crowns. And now I buy Crown Crates. And I have costumes, and mounts, and pets and what not - all things I can't afford to by with my real money. So, who is concerned about just himself now? Maybe it's you? A lot of people enjoy crown crates. A lot of people even can't afford ESO+ and they watch streams for Ouroboros drops. And they are grateful for the opportunity to have gems. A lot of such people in my country. Majority of ESO players from my country, I should say.
And now what about you? How do you suffer so much because of crates?
Problem is, everything good you can get in the game is in the Crown Store, being sold for real money. You even have to pay to change your character's appearance. It's ridiculous.
It is. They've addressed some issues by allowing crowns via gold but that's really just sharing the crowns, though of course some now just give their monthly crowns via a gold trade to get temporarily wealthy which will influence the in-game highly artificially price fixed marketplace so that's not a fun reality coming about. The gems seemed interesting thand twitch crates did too but now gem only special things that are highly expensive is a problem that I hadn't seen before. Now we have two in-game paid currencies that rely on randomness.
At this poin tyou can only buy 3 horses for gold and no other animals, have very limited pets via in-game achievements or actions and no gold purchased pets, and none of that has changed. No new houses are really gold-purchased either, though 3.75 million gold for a unfurnished serenity estate is pretty high price.
It's pretty ridiculous.
I remember my Kinlord costume, I was given it by someone as an early birthday gift and really appreciated it as it brought a good costume for my Altmer Kinlord Magus, and that was crown only though it was a special costume and I probably would have bought crowns for it myself. But the costumes you get in this game for no real cost are pretty sub-standard by *majority*.
There's not even a lot of story dlc after what 4 years? No real new classes, no new abilities in a long time, many dungeons with a part I that never got a part II, etc.
Edit: Oh right, and no new hireling mails written in some time.Edited by Delsanab14_ESO on December 16, 2018 6:43AMAccount: @Delsana
FREE CRAFTING (NA PC) SIDENOTE: Hel'phaer is a Grand Master Crafter with almost every motif (excluding Buoyant, Meridian, Coldsnap, Grim Harlequin, Tsaesci, Pellitine, and Elder Argonian because can't afford it) and will craft attractive quality and visually appealing training gear or combat sets for those interested. FREE gear for players below CP 160 (equivalent level of 210), and paid gear in some form from those CP 160 or higher.4 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭MilwaukeeScott wrote: »Terms Of Service
"By using any ZeniMax Services, You affirm that (i) You are at least 18 years of age (or have reached the age of majority if that is not 18 years of age where You live)"
Unless the society you live in is run by religious leaders, you are surrounded by gambling.
In the USA where I live, we have a National Lottery. There are casinos spread throughout our country. I live within walking distance of one. Our TV and Radio airwaves are full of sports betting ads. My corner grocery store runs a weekly raffle as do most of your in game Guilds.
Again, you are surrounded by gambling.
Instead of closing your local casino or protesting Piggly Wigglys Turkey raffle, you chose to come to these forums and proclaim the end of civilization because a Frost Mount cost 600 gems.
This leads most of us to believe you are either very immature and are clueless to the happenings of the adult world or looking for a Soap Box issue because you need/like the attention. I tend to believe the latter.
I don't expect you to stop. I doubt very much that you could stop. You have already stated that you have little to no self control.
I just want you to understand how silly and childish most of us see you as.
Gambling is good because its everywhere guys.
Going to a casino and complaining about gambling is pretty dull.
I'd like to see you speak my native language without any petty error.0 -
Hoolielulu✭✭✭✭✭Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »As an aside, in case people didn't know this, numerous court cases and cases on the docket for the future in the US and other countries already exist for loot crates, some like with Hawaii that want to restrict games with gambling mechanics such as loot crates from being accessible to anyone under 21, some that want to apply the full force of gambling legislations, and others still that want to go farther.
Regulation will eventually occur and they're banned in Belgium.
Look, I understand addiction. While I haven't had any personal experience with gambling addiction, substance abuse runs rampant in my family. Alcohol will never be illegal again so we all do our best to deal with it.
If you're so certain that crates are going to be illegal in the near future then why are we constantly banging on about this subject? Consider it done, that you've won, and let's all deal it.0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Although OP was talking about the US, ESO in Germany is FSK 16. Gambling in Germany is illegal for minors (under 18). German law defines gambling games as "games that charge a fee for acquiring a chance at winning and determine the prize completely or mainly through chance". Now it's debatable whether there is a "chance at winning" here as every crate contains at least something, but the prize is certainly determined through chance alone.
So even though this whole debate might be a clear cut case in some countries, it is still a big topic in others.
Regardless of what the law says is legal, we should ask ourselves if we want to tolerate predatory monetization methods in our games or not. Personally I do not buy crown crates nor will I ever start to, but I do see good reasons why companies should take this route of creating revenue. This doesn't excuse the predatory design and overpricing issue though! Gems used to be a thing, but apparently we are getting less and less "free" crates and more and more gem sinks, so the way I see it, things are getting worse right now...This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.4 -
Shadow-Fighter✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Internet is now like the wild west
Corrected above
But, the internet is not designed for gambling.
We are at the point that big companies [...] ruins the internet we liked with their gambling, analytics, advertising, spying tools...Natch Potes is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you're gonna get1 -
Ertosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭People are being immature, no offense.
Tell me, oh anti-Crown Crate fanbase.
Are you aware that there is no gaurantee you will get the item you want from a Crown Crate?
Are you aware that it is not necessary to purchase a Crown Crate to play the game properly?
Are you aware that it is your personal choice to spend money on Crown Crates?
Are you aware that the only reason ridiculous prices exist is because people are willing to pay for it?
Rather than pointing the finger at ZOS, why not take a look at yourself?
All four of these questions should be answered with a solid ''Yes'' if you're being objective.
Everyone knows Crown Crates have no gauranteed items - So why blame ZOS if you don't get the specific item you want?
Everyone knows that Crown Crates largely provide cosmetics - So why blame ZOS for puting a price on something irrelevant?
Everyone knows that it is you who purchases the Crate, not ZOS - So why blame ZOS for puting them in the game?
Everyone knows that without anyone buying them at these prices, the price would go down - So why blame ZOS for puting the price at such a level it makes them the most profit?
People need to realize that ESO has servers which cost money to keep up. Money has to come from somewhere. New DLC and other content has to come from somewhere, and all of that costs money. That one time purchase of the game is something, but turns irrelevant in the long term. They keep pushing out things, and they will continue to do so at prices which makes them the most money. If the price is outrageous they wouldn't keep it as high; as nobody would buy it, refer to question four.
To end this little rant, if you don't want to pay 600 Crowns for it, just get some self control and say ''No. I won't buy it.'', if others are willing to spend those 600 Crowns for it, let them. It's irrational to demand a price be lowered if the item itself is not necessary to play the game properly.
All very good points. I'd also like to add that the very premise of the thread is also false as Crown Crates are NOT gambling. To be "gambling" requires a chance to win real money. There is no real money being won, so it falls under the broader category of being a game of chance.PC NA @Ertosi♠♦ My Team ♥♣
Goan – Jabsplar [Grand Master Crafter, Master Angler, Tamriel Hero, Explorer]
Dru – Stamplar
Tickles – Healplar
Dixie – Magplar
Figs – Stamblade Sneakthief [Master Thief]
Sir Price – Stamblade Bow Ganker [Daedric Lord Slayer]
Maya – Stamblade Speedster
Ahmed – Magblade Bomber
Balzar – StamSorc Blitzer
Winnie – PetSorc Thunder Mage
Tanks – StamDK Tank
Mona – MagDK Fire Mage
Dawn – HPDK
Bearly – Stamden Tank
Ivana – Magden Ice Mage☠ CP 950+ ☠
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✄ Grand Master Crafter
No new crafting or game systems for 2019? "Season of the Dragon" would be better named "The Year of no New Major Features"
https://i.imgur.com/TPscgS9.jpg to see major features of the last few years compared.
https://i.imgur.com/X8qY0gP.jpg to see a detailed comparison of this year's Q1 to the last two Q1s.
https://i.imgur.com/4z71cK8.jpg to see a detailed comparison of each years' first two quarters combined.
https://i.imgur.com/jrHe5h8.jpg to see a projected comparison of the full years and what 2019's Q4 will need to catch up.
Unsubbed January 15th, 2019 due to the lack of any new substantial features shown to be coming in 2019.0 -
Juju_beans✭✭✭✭✭
✭Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Gambling is only a thing because of lobbying and corruption. It's only a thing here because of laws that worship corporations and very few that protect people.
Though making light of addiction to gambling and the psychosomatic mechanics and reward systems that make people get addicted to these intentionally is highly inaccurate and cruel and makes those informed see YOU as the immature one.
Governments themselves are into this...ever hear of the lotteries ?
No one is going to go out of their way to protect you from spending your money.
Only you can protect yourself.
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