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• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
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Eso, Gambling And You
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Atreidus✭✭✭Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Actual price (self calculated): $300+ if 1 time and never again and the company shall be surviving.
/edit: maybe we live in 2 different worlds. I know that you want every company to write "dont do this and this and this" before you buy. But Here they think"If it wasnt a scam etc. This guy is old enough. Else the parrents can get the money back".
Who is allowing underaged peoples to play is having got the fault anyways.
No I don't want that. I want the government to regulate them because of their gambling mechanics, I want them to have to disclose the actual gambling metrics and drop rates, and I want them to be retroactively fined for perpetuating addiction.
Writing "Don't do this" means nothing. Alcohol companies always say "Drink responsibly", but they're actually telling you to drink and buy from them and they hold no actual liability for your actions. Plus when they say "Drink responsibly" it's always on the screen during some scene of a party or heavily exciting and drunk situation.
A disclaimer means little.
Then let them block this game. Good luck. ps.: i had written about laws vs this already?
/edit: an "Good news , everyone" for all Europeans: next year the geoblocking says "bye bye" in the EU.Edited by Atreidus on December 17, 2018 11:26PM0 -
Delsanab14_ESO✭✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »I don't care if it is or isn't gambling but if you're old enough you'd remember a time where EVERYTHING in the games was earned by playing the games.
The fact that parts of games (costumes, mounts, etc.) get carved out and stuck in loot boxes is the real issue. The whole gambling debate is a straw man argument that is easy to counter while you avoid dealing with the real issue.
While I do think everything should be grindable I understand why companies do it too. I get people are like yeah greed!. Ok sure, but look at this way. The 8 bit systems games were 29.99, 16 bit, 29.99, 32 bit 39.99. Then with PS2 49.99. PS3 59.99. Games have sat there now for what almost 15 years. Yet the production to make them has skyrocketed. Some of those cut scenes cost more money to make than probably the majority of all the NES games combined.
One of the things the loot boxes have allowed is for the buy in price to stay where it's at otherwise they would probably be around 89.99$ USD at this point to just get a game. You also get season passes or small installments for free on most games. Those use to be "expansions" that would cost like 29.99 each or more.
The biggest issue is when people feel they need to have everything the game has to offer. That horse with the yellow sparkles doesn't give you any advantage over the one with blue sparkles. Deal with it.
Expansions were legitimate content expansions sometimes close to the actual size of the game. People want expansions to come back. Most season passes don't offer content even close to an expansion.Account: @Delsana
FREE CRAFTING (NA PC) SIDENOTE: Hel'phaer is a Grand Master Crafter with almost every motif (excluding Buoyant, Meridian, Coldsnap, Grim Harlequin, Tsaesci, Pellitine, and Elder Argonian because can't afford it) and will craft attractive quality and visually appealing training gear or combat sets for those interested. FREE gear for players below CP 160 (equivalent level of 210), and paid gear in some form from those CP 160 or higher.0 -
MilwaukeeScott✭✭✭✭✭Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »they hold no actual liability for your actions.
Why should ANYONE ELSE be held accountable for my actions?!?!
What the heck is going on in Belgium that makes you think someone else should be held accountable for YOUR actions?!?
PS4NA
All I see is hate and rage from people who don't understand how to.....6 -
Delsanab14_ESO✭✭✭✭Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Actual price (self calculated): $300+ if 1 time and never again and the company shall be surviving.
/edit: maybe we live in 2 different worlds. I know that you want every company to write "dont do this and this and this" before you buy. But Here they think"If it wasnt a scam etc. This guy is old enough. Else the parrents can get the money back".
Who is allowing underaged peoples to play is having got the fault anyways.
No I don't want that. I want the government to regulate them because of their gambling mechanics, I want them to have to disclose the actual gambling metrics and drop rates, and I want them to be retroactively fined for perpetuating addiction.
Writing "Don't do this" means nothing. Alcohol companies always say "Drink responsibly", but they're actually telling you to drink and buy from them and they hold no actual liability for your actions. Plus when they say "Drink responsibly" it's always on the screen during some scene of a party or heavily exciting and drunk situation.
A disclaimer means little.
Then let them block this game. Good luck. ps.: i had written about laws vs this already?
/edit: an "Good news , everyone" for all Europeans: next year the geoblocking says "bye bye" in the EU.
I mean there are already numerous law cases in the courts pushing for loot crates of all sorts to be categorized as gambling and be fined and regulated.Account: @Delsana
FREE CRAFTING (NA PC) SIDENOTE: Hel'phaer is a Grand Master Crafter with almost every motif (excluding Buoyant, Meridian, Coldsnap, Grim Harlequin, Tsaesci, Pellitine, and Elder Argonian because can't afford it) and will craft attractive quality and visually appealing training gear or combat sets for those interested. FREE gear for players below CP 160 (equivalent level of 210), and paid gear in some form from those CP 160 or higher.0 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭Also I should point out that none of this is going to matter anyways bc of Art. 130 -
Atreidus✭✭✭Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Actual price (self calculated): $300+ if 1 time and never again and the company shall be surviving.
/edit: maybe we live in 2 different worlds. I know that you want every company to write "dont do this and this and this" before you buy. But Here they think"If it wasnt a scam etc. This guy is old enough. Else the parrents can get the money back".
Who is allowing underaged peoples to play is having got the fault anyways.
No I don't want that. I want the government to regulate them because of their gambling mechanics, I want them to have to disclose the actual gambling metrics and drop rates, and I want them to be retroactively fined for perpetuating addiction.
Writing "Don't do this" means nothing. Alcohol companies always say "Drink responsibly", but they're actually telling you to drink and buy from them and they hold no actual liability for your actions. Plus when they say "Drink responsibly" it's always on the screen during some scene of a party or heavily exciting and drunk situation.
A disclaimer means little.
Then let them block this game. Good luck. ps.: i had written about laws vs this already?
/edit: an "Good news , everyone" for all Europeans: next year the geoblocking says "bye bye" in the EU.
I mean there are already numerous law cases in the courts pushing for loot crates of all sorts to be categorized as gambling and be fined and regulated.
And you can maybe get an blocking of the game in your country.
Would it be worth it?
Would it be worth the cash?
Would anyone care or would they switch to another language page if geoblocking goes?Edited by Atreidus on December 17, 2018 11:33PM0 -
Delsanab14_ESO✭✭✭✭Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Actual price (self calculated): $300+ if 1 time and never again and the company shall be surviving.
/edit: maybe we live in 2 different worlds. I know that you want every company to write "dont do this and this and this" before you buy. But Here they think"If it wasnt a scam etc. This guy is old enough. Else the parrents can get the money back".
Who is allowing underaged peoples to play is having got the fault anyways.
No I don't want that. I want the government to regulate them because of their gambling mechanics, I want them to have to disclose the actual gambling metrics and drop rates, and I want them to be retroactively fined for perpetuating addiction.
Writing "Don't do this" means nothing. Alcohol companies always say "Drink responsibly", but they're actually telling you to drink and buy from them and they hold no actual liability for your actions. Plus when they say "Drink responsibly" it's always on the screen during some scene of a party or heavily exciting and drunk situation.
A disclaimer means little.
Then let them block this game. Good luck. ps.: i had written about laws vs this already?
/edit: an "Good news , everyone" for all Europeans: next year the geoblocking says "bye bye" in the EU.
I mean there are already numerous law cases in the courts pushing for loot crates of all sorts to be categorized as gambling and be fined and regulated.
And you can maybe get an blocking of the game in your country.
Would it be worth it?
Would it be worth the cash?
Would anyone care or would they switch to another language page if geoblocking goes?
Likely Zenimax would reduce their addictive means of generating profit as would mobile games and other such and try something more based on actual content. Or they'd try to lobby to prevent it, revealing their actual intent and reasoning.
There was a comment up above about the lack of game prices increasing, it's primarily because wages haven't grown to match inflation for the US, other countries game prices have risen many times and I'd rather buy a 90 game with things included rather than a 300 dollar game with bits and pieces and quantity over quality.Account: @Delsana
FREE CRAFTING (NA PC) SIDENOTE: Hel'phaer is a Grand Master Crafter with almost every motif (excluding Buoyant, Meridian, Coldsnap, Grim Harlequin, Tsaesci, Pellitine, and Elder Argonian because can't afford it) and will craft attractive quality and visually appealing training gear or combat sets for those interested. FREE gear for players below CP 160 (equivalent level of 210), and paid gear in some form from those CP 160 or higher.0 -
Atreidus✭✭✭Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Actual price (self calculated): $300+ if 1 time and never again and the company shall be surviving.
/edit: maybe we live in 2 different worlds. I know that you want every company to write "dont do this and this and this" before you buy. But Here they think"If it wasnt a scam etc. This guy is old enough. Else the parrents can get the money back".
Who is allowing underaged peoples to play is having got the fault anyways.
No I don't want that. I want the government to regulate them because of their gambling mechanics, I want them to have to disclose the actual gambling metrics and drop rates, and I want them to be retroactively fined for perpetuating addiction.
Writing "Don't do this" means nothing. Alcohol companies always say "Drink responsibly", but they're actually telling you to drink and buy from them and they hold no actual liability for your actions. Plus when they say "Drink responsibly" it's always on the screen during some scene of a party or heavily exciting and drunk situation.
A disclaimer means little.
Then let them block this game. Good luck. ps.: i had written about laws vs this already?
/edit: an "Good news , everyone" for all Europeans: next year the geoblocking says "bye bye" in the EU.
I mean there are already numerous law cases in the courts pushing for loot crates of all sorts to be categorized as gambling and be fined and regulated.
And you can maybe get an blocking of the game in your country.
Would it be worth it?
Would it be worth the cash?
Would anyone care or would they switch to another language page if geoblocking goes?
Likely Zenimax would reduce their addictive means of generating profit as would mobile games and other such and try something more based on actual content. Or they'd try to lobby to prevent it, revealing their actual intent and reasoning.
There was a comment up above about the lack of game prices increasing, it's primarily because wages haven't grown to match inflation for the US, other countries game prices have risen many times and I'd rather buy a 90 game with things included rather than a 300 dollar game with bits and pieces and quantity over quality.
If it is against your countrys rules count your self to the "rick rolled" - faction. I am weary.1 -
Austinseph1✭✭✭✭✭I will buy things for a flat price but I will never gamble. The less RNG in games the better, at least as far as I’m concerned.1 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Lmao they also think me and someone else are “lying and distort” words.Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »I spent £2000 on CSGO crates in 2 month and over £800 on crowns on 1 month, I work a minimum wage job and was skipping meals at one point in order to save more money to buy even more steam wallet credit so I could buy more crates to gamble with, I would think about them at night, the super rare popping up, the anticipation of my next pay day and literally spending £100+ at a time on *** crates.
I like to think it was some mystical force making my waste my money on these crates but the only person I blame years on is myself, I spent my wages and savings on skins in a game and I personally hate these *** gambling crates because I imagine more people like myself getting invested in them. I hate them but most of all I hate myself for buying into them.
these are just some small examples
By making it seem like it's only your fault and no one elses, they avoid culpability. You have to factor in the person who gave the drugs and laced them not just the person who bought them.
Are you seriously comparing an ingame crate to a drug?
I'm baffled if that's seriously the case.
Still waiting on that “proof” because I’m seeing a whoooole lot of it from them.
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mague✭✭✭✭✭WhyMustItBe wrote: »Not because they honestly believe predatory marketing is awesome, but because trolling makes them feel important.
Nothing productive will ever come from such a conversation.
Nope, they are not trolls. Ingame trillionaires can get what they want through gifting. Zenimax is officially their own goldseller and certain people play this game as.. say.. distributor. Even gem stuff if you "define" 15 gems = one box.
And its a "fast" market with timed offers. It is not exactly gambling. It just generates sort of "rarity". Buy now or wait for the next chance.
The economy is based on a simple reseller pyramid model. Which is not a crime ! Personally i just dislike the visual cancer of it. Like burning horse hooves or neon skins for vampires.
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Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »I spent £2000 on CSGO crates in 2 month and over £800 on crowns on 1 month, I work a minimum wage job and was skipping meals at one point in order to save more money to buy even more steam wallet credit so I could buy more crates to gamble with, I would think about them at night, the super rare popping up, the anticipation of my next pay day and literally spending £100+ at a time on *** crates.
I like to think it was some mystical force making my waste my money on these crates but the only person I blame years on is myself, I spent my wages and savings on skins in a game and I personally hate these *** gambling crates because I imagine more people like myself getting invested in them. I hate them but most of all I hate myself for buying into them.
these are just some small examples
By making it seem like it's only your fault and no one elses, they avoid culpability. You have to factor in the person who gave the drugs and laced them not just the person who bought them.
Are you seriously comparing an ingame crate to a drug?
I'm baffled if that's seriously the case.
Of course I am as it's related to an addiction and the impact it has. Have you actively ignored all the psychology while defending them?
Do you even know what an addiction is?
There's a difference between being addicted and not having self control. What's next? Is buying food an addiction according to you? After all, you keep doing it, and it costs money! Clearly an addiction!
Oh, and those of us who like soda? Clearly we're all addicted! We keep buying what we like to drink, so we must be addicted! We clearly can't go without it!
I'm sorry, but your claim is beyond stupid.3 -
Kuwhar✭✭✭✭Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Gambling is only a thing because of lobbying and corruption. It's only a thing here because of laws that worship corporations and very few that protect people.
Though making light of addiction to gambling and the psychosomatic mechanics and reward systems that make people get addicted to these intentionally is highly inaccurate and cruel and makes those informed see YOU as the immature one.
"those informed"
As if someone who is equally informed couldn't come to a different conclusion?
What if someone simply believes in individual freedom?
I don't need the government deciding what I can and cant spend my money on, especially when its for pixels.4 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Gambling is only a thing because of lobbying and corruption. It's only a thing here because of laws that worship corporations and very few that protect people.
Though making light of addiction to gambling and the psychosomatic mechanics and reward systems that make people get addicted to these intentionally is highly inaccurate and cruel and makes those informed see YOU as the immature one.
Yeah, because there was no gambling before corporations.
And the actual video games are more destructive than the loot boxes as more people have issues compulsively playing the games than have issues spending their rent on loot boxes.Edited by DaveMoeDee on December 18, 2018 2:36PM0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm just curious how many clinicians are on-board with talking about this in terms of addiction and not merely marketing. All marketing takes advantages of our traits as humans. The design of ESO is meant to encourage compulsive play that can often get unhealthy. Advertising in general is exploitative. Certain people love to jump to moral arguments against loot boxes but it is all just assertions and agenda driven. You don't see them addressing the much greater issue of video game addiction because they are usually more concerned about getting their loot than actual human well-being.Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »Hippie4927 wrote: »Delsanab14_ESO wrote: »I spent £2000 on CSGO crates in 2 month and over £800 on crowns on 1 month, I work a minimum wage job and was skipping meals at one point in order to save more money to buy even more steam wallet credit so I could buy more crates to gamble with, I would think about them at night, the super rare popping up, the anticipation of my next pay day and literally spending £100+ at a time on *** crates.
I like to think it was some mystical force making my waste my money on these crates but the only person I blame years on is myself, I spent my wages and savings on skins in a game and I personally hate these *** gambling crates because I imagine more people like myself getting invested in them. I hate them but most of all I hate myself for buying into them.
these are just some small examples
By making it seem like it's only your fault and no one elses, they avoid culpability. You have to factor in the person who gave the drugs and laced them not just the person who bought them.
Are you seriously comparing an ingame crate to a drug?
I'm baffled if that's seriously the case.
It doesn't matter if he/she is comparing crates to drugs because he/she is wrong, anyway. Each person is responsible for their own behavior and bad choices. You don't blame the grocery store if you are over-weight and you don't blame Bacardi if you are an alcoholic. You, also, don't blame ZOS if you skip meals to buy crates. As an X-drug addict, I can tell you that one of the most important things on the road to recovery is taking responsibility for your own actions and no longer blaming everyone else for your bad choices.
And yet the people responsible for actually making the drugs, providing them, giving you free samples to get you hooked or free crates in this case... are the ones ultimately responsible.
So many people hate themselves or downwards and so few ever look up at the ones causing the actual problems.
No, I am not wrong.
Comparing this with drugs means you have got an gaming - addiction.
No. I'm not speaking about my own issues or lack of issues. Just looking at the facts and tearing down the distortion.
Crown crates are addicting like drugs, often cause a reward-system in the brain to trigger, have horrible drop rates that get worse as you go not better, and ultimately have no real value, but more than that they are also presented for free at points (and sometimes not for free but at discount or through some promotion at lesser cost) to get you hooked.
Why are you talking about crown crates being addicting and not talking about video games being addictive? How many people neglect other responsibilities in life due to video games, hurting their families, health, and jobs? This is the double standard that is getting old in these conversations. Why aren't you pushing to end similar mechanisms in games, like low rate drops in-game that keep people grinding all night? We even have other people who prefer to take those low rate drops out of loot boxes and put them in-game. How is that any better if we are concerned about exploiting people's compulsive behaviors?
And I'm sorry but saying it is "like drugs" because they "often cause a reward-system in the brain to trigger" is a horrible argument because so many things cause that to trigger. That in itself is not a problem or a useful analysis unless you talk about all the things that trigger that and explain why this should be stopped but those others are fine.
I think the loot boxes are horrible because they are convoluted, deceptive, and anti-consumer. But these gambling arguments are so weak. We don't ban things merely because they are prone to be done compulsively. I honestly don't see how we could ban these in the US when we have so many state run lotteries. Gambling regulations in the US don't seem to be about public health. Any adult can go to a casino or buy state lottery tickets. They seem to be more about an antiquated moralism and fighting organized crime at this point and getting a cut of the profits.2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLRyJ0dawjM