REAL vs FAKE DPS

linlilia · December 2018

High ST DPS honestly means nothing to me in a Group Dungeon, since you rarely fight single targets. I have been in more than a few dungeons where one of the DPS can definitely pull 40k ST DPS or more, and it still took ages to run a mid level dungeon. Because they could not do much AOE and they were glass cannons so they needed constant rezzing and time to recover resources to do that massive burst.

It is part of why my poor healer is now a dpsing healer 85% of the time, because most of my DPS is AOE and I can kill mobs. I am also working to get my dummy parse up to 20k (I am maxing out around 18k right now since i don't want to redo my CP). And I can run Skyreach Catacombs in about 4 parts and not die

ST DPS is great for single targets, but does not always translate into good DPS in group dungeons or Trials.

DPS in group content is not just about burst, but also about sustain which people often times forget.

ZeroXFF · December 2018

This depends on character and setup. I usually test a range of DPS that I can do by testing the "worst" setup on the 6M dummy and the "best" setup on the 3M dummy. The different setups are suitable for different situations, so the "worst" setup is better than the "best" setup in some situations (Zaan and Master Architect are for example useless if you can't be in melee range, but are giving a huge boost if you can). I also use different skills with my low and high end setups.

My "low end" setup is basically 100% ranged, no DPS loss from movement and target switching, and I use crushing shock as spammable as there are situations when it's useful, so it offers itself for the "low end" test, and I also have a heal slotted during a dummy test (instead of ele drain), and use apprentice or thief mundus as that's how I'd go to an actual trial.

My "high end" setup might look like this: Zaan, Juli, Spell Strat (don't have Siroria yet, grinding nCR is boring, so only getting some pieces when our guild goes for vCR, so it is taking a while), lover, ele drain instead of the heal, and elemental weapon instead of crushing shock.

The result:
33-49k DPS on magplar.
32-45k DPS on magplade.
32-40k DPS on magsorc (36-40k with the double pet setup).
33-36k DPS on stamblade (I have only one setup for him, and I suck at stam DPS)
25-32k DPS on stamDK werewolf (low end without WW form, high end with, otherwise same issues as the stamblade)
22k DPS on my argonian DK tank if I swap in purple medium armor and DPS skills.
20k DPS on my warden healer if I swap out most heals for damage skills (don't even have true DPS gear on that char).

I do have to note though that the "low end" setup of my magplar with no adjustments actually does 45k+ single target in trials on fights where the boss is standing still and there are no mechanics forcing me to stop DPSing for a while. The trial buffs make a huge difference. I haven't actually tested the "high end" setup, because it's too restrictive for for most fights in actual trials, but I might give it a shot one of these days when my guild is ok with me going as something other than a tank.

With this approach to testing I can guarantee that I'll do at least the low number, even with groups running with absolutely no support sets or skills. But depending on fight and group composition I might go even beyond the high number in trials due to the additional buffs in good groups.

Another thing I noticed is that different classes perform differently in the same fights, and that performance isn't reflected by dummy parses. I noticed that most strongly on vFH last boss (I don't do a lot of trials on different DDs, but I am doing a lot of dungeons with all of them) magsorc can reliably deliver 40k, even though judging by dummy parses it's much worse than the magblade and the magplar. But with magplar I end up doing around 35k in that particular fight and with magblade it drops to 25-30k. I've never seen my sorc exceed 40k single target in trials though, while my magplar does get into the high 40s/low 50s depending on the fight.

Jeremy · December 2018

Facefister wrote: »

@Jeremy
I am talking about the community itself. A tank has to tank, a healer has to heal, but there dozens of mental gymnastics why 5k dps is fine.

Yes, they're not doing their job properly when the tank or the healer does more damage than the DD itself.
You're doing less damage than the healer or the tank, you don't tank, you don't heal... what are you then? Certainly not a Damage Dealer.

If the mini-boss is still alive after the third horn then there is something fundamentally wrong with your build, skill or both.

And the community itself isn't tolerant of DD's. As I mentioned, I see DPS characters get kicked from groups routinely before even the first pull based solely on their CP numbers. I rarely (hardly ever) see that happen to other roles.

I'll agree that a damage-dealing character should be able to do more than 5k dps. That's remarkably low damage. But kicking someone because a mini boss is taking longer than a minute or because they can't do 20k + dps isn't something I approve of.

Also: a lot of tanks and healers in groups these days are actually damage-dealing builds that just queue up as heals or tanks because you don't really need a dedicated build for much of the content these days. So the fact they are doing more damage than other damage-dealers in the group really isn't evidence they are "fake dds". Not to mention area attacks against large groups of enemies can be very misleading for people who use these silly addons that show them what percentage of the damage they are doing.

For example: I"m sure a healer spamming shards against a dozen mobs at once can do a fair amount of damage. But on a boss (which is where it counts) that damage is going to be 1/12 of what it was.

Tannus15 · December 2018

HobosEverywear wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Varies lol on a dummy I can do 20k ish but have done in the 30's soloing some normal dungeon bosses on a pet sorcs. So I do more healing than dps.

How do you do 20k ish on a dummy but 30's soloing in a dungeon? Whats inside the dungeon that tells you your DPS is in the 30's? Generally your DPS is lower in a combat situation than on a target dummy.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

It'll be sustain. A lot of people get higher dps as long as the thing dies and a lot less when it doesn't. The thing most people are getting wrong is light attack weaving, so doing damage costs more resources.

Most dungeon bosses only have like 1.5mil health, so with a group you don't run out of resources before it's dead, especially if you only need to do 50% of that damage.

Tannus15 · December 2018

HallowedUndead wrote: »

I've been stuck at the 20 - 22K range for a while.
I got tired of crappy damage so i started tanking. I would greatly appreciate and tips for increasing my damage.
p.s. I believe my problem is my rotation, as i use what i see, and what everyone says, is good sets.

ex. My StamWarden uses relequen, Advancing yokeda, and selene. He hits the highest of my dps characters.

Maybe i'm meant to play support

you need to learn to light attack weave.

my advice is to attack the pre-cursor dummy with only your spammable and work on the timing of your light attack weave.
light attack - ability. you want to minimise the gap between them and still have both attacks land.
then you reduce the gap between each [light attack - ability] until you can get close to 1 light attack per second.

so for a stam warden: light attack - bird ___ light attack - bird ___ light attack - bird and so on

once you've got that working you can go back to trying to do a rotation of skills on a 3mil skelly.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · December 2018

HobosEverywear wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Varies lol on a dummy I can do 20k ish but have done in the 30's soloing some normal dungeon bosses on a pet sorcs. So I do more healing than dps.

How do you do 20k ish on a dummy but 30's soloing in a dungeon? Whats inside the dungeon that tells you your DPS is in the 30's? Generally your DPS is lower in a combat situation than on a target dummy.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

You get 25% more weapon and spell damage using the group finder, this raises DPS a lot.

Daimmyo · December 2018

Elsterchen wrote: »

Ask a guildie to craft it for you, bring the mats and you are good to go.

I started dungeoning solo and for me this approach was fine. I PUG now, because I don't want to spend so much time in this type of content, but for getting into it I actually appriciated the possibility to play around and try different things... and leave at any time if things don't work out the way i want or I get bored. If you start with the easier (non-DLC) dungeons the time you need for the first clear is ok, too (mostly less then 1 hour)... and 300 CP are enough to get through spindleclutch and alike.
As a rule of thumb just have a good look at how comfortable you are with the first group of mobs... if you have a hard time killing those, the rest of the dungeon will probably be to hard for you now.

have fun.

Thanks mate, yeah this does make sense a lot. Waiting for some stuff to be researched is like - well I have no words to describe it.

ruengdet2515 · December 2018

This thread is very fun to read.

I want to read more.

Protossyder · December 2018

Kurat wrote: »

(...)
Your dps means nothing if it's not sustainable, dont know mechanics and cant stay alive.

Your dps is nothing if it's not sustainable, dont know mechanics and cant stay alive.
DPS is the result of being able to sustain/survive while doing your rotation. DPS means everything.

ZeroXFF · December 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

HobosEverywear wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Varies lol on a dummy I can do 20k ish but have done in the 30's soloing some normal dungeon bosses on a pet sorcs. So I do more healing than dps.

How do you do 20k ish on a dummy but 30's soloing in a dungeon? Whats inside the dungeon that tells you your DPS is in the 30's? Generally your DPS is lower in a combat situation than on a target dummy.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

You get 25% more weapon and spell damage using the group finder, this raises DPS a lot.

Why do people keep saying this? This is only true for low lvl chars.

Besides, how do you suggest he soloes dungeons using the group finder?

Aisle9 · December 2018

Ryzakier wrote: »

These are not average numbers. I think the end game community is waaaaay out of touch with the rest of the community on here. The average DPS for the average player in this game is probably closer to 5k, which is fine for overland PvE and questing and normal dungeons. At 20K, you are higher than most people in this game. Anything between 20-30K is really good, while anything over 30K is freaking outstanding. Those freakshows hitting over 50K are not even human anymore. I don't know what they are exactly, but I imagine they all have cyborg hands.

@p00tx, ahh I see. I don't really get to play much overland / group dungeon content anymore as i've been reduced to a healer role because of the ping. The main guild i'm in is full of end-game players who are always posting their 45-50k+ scores so I've been under the impression i was a mere average player. I do certainly agree with you on that last part! My hands just hurt thinking about all the button spamming

you don't spam buttons, you push different ones every time...

most of the time...

Ok, you do spam the right mouse button... but it's not that bad, I promise

Facefister wrote: »

Jeremy
I am talking about the community itself. A tank has to tank, a healer has to heal, but there dozens of mental gymnastics why 5k dps is fine.

Yes, they're not doing their job properly when the tank or the healer does more damage than the DD itself.
You're doing less damage than the healer or the tank, you don't tank, you don't heal... what are you then? Certainly not a Damage Dealer.

If the mini-boss is still alive after the third horn then there is something fundamentally wrong with your build, skill or both.

5k is what a tank does.

If you can be bothered spamming light attacks, you are more around 8 - 10k dps, just light attacks, nothing more.

If you can be bothered putting in a skill or a dot once in a while, magic, you're at 15k.

Let's not exaggerate claims, please, nobody would ever defend a dps pulling 5k because that would mean they're afk in a corner or using a build so badly put together that is not even considerable dps anymore, like 50k HP or something.

I would understand if you're considering under lvl 50 in training lvl10 gear, but even then, 5k is actually pretty hard to achieve.

As for "a tank has to tank and a healer has to heal" I guess you've never been in groups where the healer could not be bothered to throw orbs, or the tank wasn't proccing Alkosh often enough.

When you reach a certain level, there's low tolerance for everyone, mate

Tsar_Gekkou · December 2018

I can only do 30K-33K on my petsorc with Necro, Infal, and Maelstrom backbar with either an Infal lightning staff or Perfected Asylum lightning staff because i'm dumb as hell when it comes to dps. I've watched videos with super simple rotations like the Telvanni's Two Button which uses two skills and two heavy attacks, and I still hit about 8K under what I should've been hitting. But no one complains about my dps in dungeons and it's been enough for every dungeon hardmode, speedrun, and no-death in the game. I don't bring my dookie deeps into vet trials though, since I main healer anyway.

Daimmyo · December 2018

Aisle9 wrote: »

5k is what a tank does.

If you can be bothered spamming light attacks, you are more around 8 - 10k dps, just light attacks, nothing more.

If you can be bothered putting in a skill or a dot once in a while, magic, you're at 15k.

Let's not exaggerate claims, please, nobody would ever defend a dps pulling 5k because that would mean they're afk in a corner or using a build so badly put together that is not even considerable dps anymore, like 50k HP or something.

This is a complete BS.

I tried to practice so called meta rotations and was stuck at 5k.

True, it was a random quest-gathered equipment, true it was filled with clumsy attempts to put damage and mitigate damage at the same time, but it will be 5k with full focus and full effort.

This light attack childish mantra is one of the main reasons I consider ESO community to be complete utter bunch of mediocre fakes and pushing people down to the path of lies.

It takes a looaaaaaads of time to gather skills, level them up, grind for the gear and practice application of the damage, it takes time to put everything in place.

It doesn't take light attack crap to apply 5k.

True, some classes are easier, with some classes I can just randomly mash buttons and you will get some damage that goes 10k, 15k, hell with sorcerer it will go even 20k.

With stamDK things at least for me tend to be a bit more tedious, serious and demanding - and probably the reason why I play just this class. And I may consider nightblade.

NordSwordnBoard · December 2018

This thread made it to Fredas.

SaintSubwayy · December 2018

Facefister wrote: »

This game needs a public DPS meter. We expect everyone doing his/her job don't we? Everyone expects the tank and the healer to do their job properly, why do we have such a broad tolerance about DDs and their jobs? When it takes 5 minutes to burn down a 1m hp miniboss then a DD does not do his/her job properly.

Nor does the other

1 Mio HP, should melt with healer buffs and tanks debuff, in less than 5min even if you're solo

with 25k DPS 1 Mio HP will be gone in 40 seconds...even if you only deal 15k its not goin to take longer than 70seconds

Tsar_Gekkou · December 2018

I just got out of a vICP with what people would call "fake dps." they were a cp810 stamsorc with the stormproof title, and a cp775 stamblade who mostly used bow light attacks along with arrow spray and uppercut. I did more damage than either of them on my breton magwarden healer using lightning blockade and weaving crushing shock. I had never been in an ICP for that long. There were multiple wipes due to stupid stuff like standing in aoes. When we got to the lord warden's templars before the warden himself, they were up so long that they put up two of those little shielding totems and then enraged. I never knew those adds could enrage because they're never alive long enough. The moral of the story is that if you're a pvper, please realize that your arrow spray - uppercut - light attack rotation probably won't work in pve as well as it does in pvp, and that the aoes in a vet dlc dungeon do more damage than the ones you get hit with in Cyrodiil.

Jeremy · December 2018

Daimmyo wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

5k is what a tank does.

If you can be bothered spamming light attacks, you are more around 8 - 10k dps, just light attacks, nothing more.

If you can be bothered putting in a skill or a dot once in a while, magic, you're at 15k.

Let's not exaggerate claims, please, nobody would ever defend a dps pulling 5k because that would mean they're afk in a corner or using a build so badly put together that is not even considerable dps anymore, like 50k HP or something.

This is a complete BS.

I tried to practice so called meta rotations and was stuck at 5k.

True, it was a random quest-gathered equipment, true it was filled with clumsy attempts to put damage and mitigate damage at the same time, but it will be 5k with full focus and full effort.

This light attack childish mantra is one of the main reasons I consider ESO community to be complete utter bunch of mediocre fakes and pushing people down to the path of lies.

It takes a looaaaaaads of time to gather skills, level them up, grind for the gear and practice application of the damage, it takes time to put everything in place.

It doesn't take light attack crap to apply 5k.

True, some classes are easier, with some classes I can just randomly mash buttons and you will get some damage that goes 10k, 15k, hell with sorcerer it will go even 20k.

With stamDK things at least for me tend to be a bit more tedious, serious and demanding - and probably the reason why I play just this class. And I may consider nightblade.

My Templar tank just did 6.5k dps on a training dummy with a crappy one bar DPS rotation - not a single piece of gear that gives spell power or weapon damage - not a single point of CP into anything that gives damage... except for perhaps Elfborn... though considering my critiical rating is almost non existent I doubt that made much difference.

So I don't understand why you said it's BS what that poster said Daimmyo. It's hard for me to believe that any character built for damage could barely do 5k. I don't know what websites you have been reading that are giving you these "meta rotations" but they are clearly steering you in the wrong direction and I would stop reading them now.

Aisle9 · December 2018

Daimmyo wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

5k is what a tank does.

If you can be bothered spamming light attacks, you are more around 8 - 10k dps, just light attacks, nothing more.

If you can be bothered putting in a skill or a dot once in a while, magic, you're at 15k.

Let's not exaggerate claims, please, nobody would ever defend a dps pulling 5k because that would mean they're afk in a corner or using a build so badly put together that is not even considerable dps anymore, like 50k HP or something.

This is a complete BS.

I tried to practice so called meta rotations and was stuck at 5k.

True, it was a random quest-gathered equipment, true it was filled with clumsy attempts to put damage and mitigate damage at the same time, but it will be 5k with full focus and full effort.

This light attack childish mantra is one of the main reasons I consider ESO community to be complete utter bunch of mediocre fakes and pushing people down to the path of lies.

It takes a looaaaaaads of time to gather skills, level them up, grind for the gear and practice application of the damage, it takes time to put everything in place.

It doesn't take light attack crap to apply 5k.

True, some classes are easier, with some classes I can just randomly mash buttons and you will get some damage that goes 10k, 15k, hell with sorcerer it will go even 20k.

With stamDK things at least for me tend to be a bit more tedious, serious and demanding - and probably the reason why I play just this class. And I may consider nightblade.

@Daimmyo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbK0jobAD3Y&feature=youtu.be

I'm sorry, what was that ?

First I just used light attacks.

Then I used a simple rotation of rending slashes, deadly cloak and surprise attack, with an incapacitating strike when I remembered I had ulti available, worthy of the cringeworthiest LA spammer puglet.

Even wearing random junk, with a rotation comprised of a grand total of 3 skills and 0 buffs, you can see the numbers for yourself. That would actually increase by using crafted stuff, like Hunding's Rage and Night Mother's Gaze (they are both crafted sets you can make with 6 traits, so nothing exceptional), or Agility jewelry/weapons (obtained through random dungeons rewards or you can just buy them for peanuts in guild stores), instead of what I'm wearing.

Video quality is crap, I play on a laptop, but hopefully you can see the numbers clearly.

I recorded this video right now, instead of posting a screen of a parse, to make sure you won't think I somehow faked the numbers, even though I can't prove my lack of mediocrity (actually, I'm fairy sure I just did).

If you need advice, feel free to ask, always happy to help out.

Hope this helps.
Have a nice day.

P.S. - StamDK's rota is nothing exceptional, you can actually make the case that it's easier than the stamblade's.

Rungar · December 2018

you cant tell whose real and fake dps going by low numbers.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · December 2018

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

HobosEverywear wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Varies lol on a dummy I can do 20k ish but have done in the 30's soloing some normal dungeon bosses on a pet sorcs. So I do more healing than dps.

How do you do 20k ish on a dummy but 30's soloing in a dungeon? Whats inside the dungeon that tells you your DPS is in the 30's? Generally your DPS is lower in a combat situation than on a target dummy.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

You get 25% more weapon and spell damage using the group finder, this raises DPS a lot.

Why do people keep saying this? This is only true for low lvl chars.

Besides, how do you suggest he soloes dungeons using the group finder?

you are 100% wrong. you get 25% more no matter the level you enter the GF. pay attention to your stats next time you enter.

eliisra · December 2018

Kurat wrote: »

Your DPS means nothing if you can't stay alive. I see dummy parse warriors almost every time when forming trial group. People claiming to pull impressive numbers but when in trial later, I somehow always end up doing 20+% of group dps while my dummy parse is not even near theirs.
I also see ppl sometimes post their dps in group chat after killed dungeon mini boss lol. Or boss with ads.
Your dps means nothing if it's not sustainable, dont know mechanics and cant stay alive.

Of course staying alive matters a lot. But people that pull respectable numbers are usually better at staying alive to, compared to people that do poor dps.

I never even been in one of these anecdotal situations where *** poor dps never dies and the good dps spends half the time on the floor. It's usually the other way around. Probably because decent dps knows the dungeon inside out and completed it countless of times. Bad dps gets kicked or group can't finish, so they never get a chance to learn.

But sure, dummy dps doesn't say everything. If you know the raid+mechanics well or just really good at memorizing things, you will out-dps others, regardless if they claim to do more or actually do more on a dummy.

You probably don't have to think as much about what to do next, you just know it automatically? That rewards you with less interrupted rotations or disconnects and you pull higher numbers. Also people have a tendency to exaggerate their dummy parses lol.

Aisle9 · December 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

HobosEverywear wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Varies lol on a dummy I can do 20k ish but have done in the 30's soloing some normal dungeon bosses on a pet sorcs. So I do more healing than dps.

How do you do 20k ish on a dummy but 30's soloing in a dungeon? Whats inside the dungeon that tells you your DPS is in the 30's? Generally your DPS is lower in a combat situation than on a target dummy.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

You get 25% more weapon and spell damage using the group finder, this raises DPS a lot.

Why do people keep saying this? This is only true for low lvl chars.

Besides, how do you suggest he soloes dungeons using the group finder?

you are 100% wrong. you get 25% more no matter the level you enter the GF. pay attention to your stats next time you enter.

Actually, IIRC, that's only in the tooltip, it doesn't actually apply to toons > CP160.

In fact your dps is pretty much the same whether you port in or you join with GF.

I'm not 100% sure of this, but it used to be the case.

ZeroXFF · December 2018

Daimmyo wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

5k is what a tank does.

If you can be bothered spamming light attacks, you are more around 8 - 10k dps, just light attacks, nothing more.

If you can be bothered putting in a skill or a dot once in a while, magic, you're at 15k.

Let's not exaggerate claims, please, nobody would ever defend a dps pulling 5k because that would mean they're afk in a corner or using a build so badly put together that is not even considerable dps anymore, like 50k HP or something.

This is a complete BS.

I tried to practice so called meta rotations and was stuck at 5k.

True, it was a random quest-gathered equipment, true it was filled with clumsy attempts to put damage and mitigate damage at the same time, but it will be 5k with full focus and full effort.

This light attack childish mantra is one of the main reasons I consider ESO community to be complete utter bunch of mediocre fakes and pushing people down to the path of lies.

It takes a looaaaaaads of time to gather skills, level them up, grind for the gear and practice application of the damage, it takes time to put everything in place.

It doesn't take light attack crap to apply 5k.

True, some classes are easier, with some classes I can just randomly mash buttons and you will get some damage that goes 10k, 15k, hell with sorcerer it will go even 20k.

With stamDK things at least for me tend to be a bit more tedious, serious and demanding - and probably the reason why I play just this class. And I may consider nightblade.

Just light attacks, naked:

With a bad heavy attack rotation, without caltrops, still naked:

Also as you might notice, I swapped out vMA bow for some random bow with a useless 2p I had in my bags...

If you're doing 5k DPS "fully focused", you're either lying, or you're playing a no-CP low level char to whom "focusing" means just doing light attacks. Either that, or you're a fully specced "selfish" trial tank trying to do damage with 1hs skills. That's the only way I could get my dps below 5k.

I don't have a low lvl stam DK, but I do have a magblade that has no skills and no passives, because all skill points went into crafting for the hirelings. Gear is random stuff that dropped from the dungeons I was running when I was collecting the skill points for crafting. I also made sure to put just 100 points in the blue CP constellations, so this is equivalent to a lvl20 300CP player... Here is a parse with nothing but ice staff light attacks:

Conclusion:
If you did anything even remotely resembling a rotation, you'd be doing 15k DPS at least, even with bad gear of non-matching sets and of wrong weight.

Tsar_Gekkou · December 2018

Aisle9 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

HobosEverywear wrote: »

phileunderx2 wrote: »

Varies lol on a dummy I can do 20k ish but have done in the 30's soloing some normal dungeon bosses on a pet sorcs. So I do more healing than dps.

How do you do 20k ish on a dummy but 30's soloing in a dungeon? Whats inside the dungeon that tells you your DPS is in the 30's? Generally your DPS is lower in a combat situation than on a target dummy.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

You get 25% more weapon and spell damage using the group finder, this raises DPS a lot.

Why do people keep saying this? This is only true for low lvl chars.

Besides, how do you suggest he soloes dungeons using the group finder?

you are 100% wrong. you get 25% more no matter the level you enter the GF. pay attention to your stats next time you enter.

Actually, IIRC, that's only in the tooltip, it doesn't actually apply to toons > CP160.

In fact your dps is pretty much the same whether you port in or you join with GF.

I'm not 100% sure of this, but it used to be the case.

Can anyone confirm this?

usmcjdking · December 2018

Daimmyo wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

5k is what a tank does.

If you can be bothered spamming light attacks, you are more around 8 - 10k dps, just light attacks, nothing more.

If you can be bothered putting in a skill or a dot once in a while, magic, you're at 15k.

Let's not exaggerate claims, please, nobody would ever defend a dps pulling 5k because that would mean they're afk in a corner or using a build so badly put together that is not even considerable dps anymore, like 50k HP or something.

This is a complete BS.

I tried to practice so called meta rotations and was stuck at 5k.

True, it was a random quest-gathered equipment, true it was filled with clumsy attempts to put damage and mitigate damage at the same time, but it will be 5k with full focus and full effort.

This light attack childish mantra is one of the main reasons I consider ESO community to be complete utter bunch of mediocre fakes and pushing people down to the path of lies.

It takes a looaaaaaads of time to gather skills, level them up, grind for the gear and practice application of the damage, it takes time to put everything in place.

It doesn't take light attack crap to apply 5k.

True, some classes are easier, with some classes I can just randomly mash buttons and you will get some damage that goes 10k, 15k, hell with sorcerer it will go even 20k.

With stamDK things at least for me tend to be a bit more tedious, serious and demanding - and probably the reason why I play just this class. And I may consider nightblade.

You can put your DK in a 2H, and provided the gear makes sense, pull 25k by weaving wrecking blow with light attacks and absolutely nothing else.

Daimmyo · December 2018

ESO is seriously suffering from lacking guidance through it's basic game mechanics, equipment and the way it should be used, all the little pieces that are important to put progressing character onto that level you are talking about (in game, but on the community level too).

If it was the other way around, you wouldn't be having all these debates and questions from confused people all over the place, and people under-performing in dungeons and what not - which is what this thread was about, isn't it?

John_Falstaff · December 2018

@Raiden_Gekkou , I think @code65536 gave it a test in a dungeon with premade group (I'm having troubles finding that thread now), and concluded that although tooltip changes for all characters, only characters below CP160 will have that bonus effective. (Can be recognized by opening character sheet and checking for "Looking For Group" buff.) I don't think there was any official comment on that, so it's hard to say whether it's so, and if not, whether it's because of a bug.

temjiu · December 2018

Protossyder wrote: »

Kurat wrote: »

(...)
Your dps means nothing if it's not sustainable, dont know mechanics and cant stay alive.

Your dps is nothing if it's not sustainable, dont know mechanics and cant stay alive.
DPS is the result of being able to sustain/survive while doing your rotation. DPS means everything.

I consider them all to be parts of a multipart equation. I've had groups where DPS sit back and spam heavy attacks from a resto staff. they rarely died in those cases, but they're DPS was miserably low, far lower then mine even when I was healing and throwing out actual skills. So staying alive + being able to manage mechanics + applying skills + effective weaving = real DPS.

That being said, I totally understand your emphasis. people tend to ignore mechanics and tactics far more often then skill usage. but we can't ignore it.

temjiu · December 2018

Deleted, double post

Aisle9 · December 2018

Daimmyo wrote: »

ESO is seriously suffering from lacking guidance through it's basic game mechanics, equipment and the way it should be used, all the little pieces that are important to put progressing character onto that level you are talking about (in game, but on the community level too).

If it was the other way around, you wouldn't be having all these debates and questions from confused people all over the place, and people under-performing in dungeons and what not - which is what this thread was about, isn't it?

The tutorial tells you everything you're supposed to know about skills, heavy attacks, light attacks, block, dodge, bash and stealth.

As for advanced mechanics, and I know it's radical, but bear with me...

..maybe, just maybe, as in every other MMO under the sun, you rely on more experienced players, that went through the hassle of trying things out, and learn from what they found out, instead of expecting the game to tell you everything you need to know to be top of the leaderboards.

Just a thought.

Light attack weaving is not a "basic game mechanic" as it was not even an intended mechanic. The fact that the game and community embraced it, doesn't mean the game is supposed to tell you about it. Same thing for Bash canceling, dodge canceling, barswap canceling, etc.

It's up to you to go and find resources about it (which are not scarce, everyone and their dog made an animation canceling video guide) so that you can better yourself.

And, again, if you need advice, feel free to ask.

Going around calling people "mediocre fakes" is probably not the way to go, tho... just a thought.

As for what this thread is about, no, as it turns out, this is just a thread complaining about people lying about their actual numbers when joining a pug.