REAL vs FAKE DPS

disintegr8 · December 2018

I agree with the 2nd paragraph of the last post @temjiu. Even vet DLC dungeons, 2 DPS doing 20-25k dps is more than enough providing they don't die.

First time I tried vet Scalecaller with a sorc doing 25k DPS, we were failing on the last boss because I had less than 17k health and kept dying (poor reflexes, first time on vet also contributed). Once I boosted it to 19k, with a couple of health armour glyphs, we completed it next try. Sure I might have dropped a little DPS but you can't kill stuff if you are dead.

Colecovision · December 2018

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

Endless Hail -(bar swap) LA | REPEAT |

That's a lot of damage for that rotation. 7.3k dps from releqen + selens. Was this before or after the nerf?

I don't mean to derail, it's just an interesting post to me.

p00tx · December 2018

Ryzakier wrote: »

29-31k self buffed on my Magden prior to Nermfire on a good day with the dummy, maybe 26-28k on bad day. Average numbers compared to most folk, but I'm pretty happy with it given my usual ping and old wrist injury i need to be mindful of when playing.
However due to persistent high ping issues I haven't been able to dummy test or DPS group content properly for nearly two months now

These are not average numbers. I think the end game community is waaaaay out of touch with the rest of the community on here. The average DPS for the average player in this game is probably closer to 5k, which is fine for overland PvE and questing and normal dungeons. At 20K, you are higher than most people in this game. Anything between 20-30K is really good, while anything over 30K is freaking outstanding. Those freakshows hitting over 50K are not even human anymore. I don't know what they are exactly, but I imagine they all have cyborg hands.

kargen27 · December 2018

Facefister wrote: »

This game needs a public DPS meter. We expect everyone doing his/her job don't we? Everyone expects the tank and the healer to do their job properly, why do we have such a broad tolerance about DDs and their jobs? When it takes 5 minutes to burn down a 1m hp miniboss then a DD does not do his/her job properly.

Just like the healer and tank. If people are mostly staying out of the red and are still dying (other than one shots) we know the healer might not be quite up to the task. No need for an in game public metric. Boss runs around the room chasing the healer we know hey maybe the tank isn't doing his job. No need for a public meter. If the boss takes an extra long time and I mean more than just a minute or two then we know DPS is off. No need for a meter. Sure there is more than one DPS in the group but usually you can tell the bad DPS from the good. A lot of the time you can see them standing behind the healer lobbing arrows at a mob.

Royaji · December 2018

p00tx wrote: »

Ryzakier wrote: »

29-31k self buffed on my Magden prior to Nermfire on a good day with the dummy, maybe 26-28k on bad day. Average numbers compared to most folk, but I'm pretty happy with it given my usual ping and old wrist injury i need to be mindful of when playing.
However due to persistent high ping issues I haven't been able to dummy test or DPS group content properly for nearly two months now

These are not average numbers. I think the end game community is waaaaay out of touch with the rest of the community on here. The average DPS for the average player in this game is probably closer to 5k, which is fine for overland PvE and questing and normal dungeons. At 20K, you are higher than most people in this game. Anything between 20-30K is really good, while anything over 30K is freaking outstanding. Those freakshows hitting over 50K are not even human anymore. I don't know what they are exactly, but I imagine they all have cyborg hands.

5k is what a fully specced tank will be doing just from using pierce armor, heroic slach and heavy attacks.

If you have two arms and half a brain you are capable of 30k DPS.

Aisle9 · December 2018

p00tx wrote: »

Ryzakier wrote: »

29-31k self buffed on my Magden prior to Nermfire on a good day with the dummy, maybe 26-28k on bad day. Average numbers compared to most folk, but I'm pretty happy with it given my usual ping and old wrist injury i need to be mindful of when playing.
However due to persistent high ping issues I haven't been able to dummy test or DPS group content properly for nearly two months now

These are not average numbers. I think the end game community is waaaaay out of touch with the rest of the community on here. The average DPS for the average player in this game is probably closer to 5k, which is fine for overland PvE and questing and normal dungeons. At 20K, you are higher than most people in this game. Anything between 20-30K is really good, while anything over 30K is freaking outstanding. Those freakshows hitting over 50K are not even human anymore. I don't know what they are exactly, but I imagine they all have cyborg hands.

(._. )

I never asked for this

BooPerScOOper · December 2018

Colecovision wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

Endless Hail -(bar swap) LA | REPEAT |

That's a lot of damage for that rotation. 7.3k dps from releqen + selens. Was this before or after the nerf?

I don't mean to derail, it's just an interesting post to me.

10-20-2018

Aisle9 · December 2018

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

Endless Hail -(bar swap) LA | REPEAT |

That's a lot of damage for that rotation. 7.3k dps from releqen + selens. Was this before or after the nerf?

I don't mean to derail, it's just an interesting post to me.

10-20-2018

That's a bit low for hail, tho. No maelstrom bow ?

BooPerScOOper · December 2018

Aisle9 wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

Endless Hail -(bar swap) LA | REPEAT |

That's a lot of damage for that rotation. 7.3k dps from releqen + selens. Was this before or after the nerf?

I don't mean to derail, it's just an interesting post to me.

10-20-2018

That's a bit low for hail, tho. No maelstrom bow ?

MA bow... I know I swapped before hail hit several times

El_Borracho · December 2018

@HobosEverywear No, I get what you are driving at and I agree 100%. Other than those players who have no idea what you are talking about, I think the other group are those too embarrassed to reveal their low DPS. And they lie because they have been led to believe that they need to do whatever the content is in order to get the "OP gear" which they think will suddenly add 20K to their DPS. Not knowing that (1) it will not, and (2) you don't need to hit 40k to farm Relequen, Siroria, or Alkosh.

Funny thing is that I see these DPS queries most often in nMOL or nCR. They are almost exclusively from clowns who are there to farm gear as fast as possible. Not making excuses, but I can see why some lie. Then, when their lie succeeds, and they breeze through an nCR run, they might think their DPS is way better than it really is. "Hey, I just ran something where the crown demanded that I hit 30K. I must be pretty good."

So fast forward to that player's first vMOL when they are hit up again, or told you should hit 25-30K minimum, they think "well, I did nCR, so I should be able to do this." Then they can't hold their own on the pillars boss. And the group gets upset. And the player can't figure out why they suddenly are bad.

Again, not an excuse, and people should know their DPS before doing vet content, but I can see where this comes from.

Danksta · December 2018

If you want to know someone's "real DPS" then asking "what is your DPS?" is the wrong question. You should be more specific.

Aisle9 · December 2018

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

Endless Hail -(bar swap) LA | REPEAT |

That's a lot of damage for that rotation. 7.3k dps from releqen + selens. Was this before or after the nerf?

I don't mean to derail, it's just an interesting post to me.

10-20-2018

That's a bit low for hail, tho. No maelstrom bow ?

MA bow... I know I swapped before hail hit several times

add a bash to your rotation, before swapping, so you can have random drains as well xD

BooPerScOOper · December 2018

El_Borracho wrote: »

@HobosEverywear No, I get what you are driving at and I agree 100%. Other than those players who have no idea what you are talking about, I think the other group are those too embarrassed to reveal their low DPS. And they lie because they have been led to believe that they need to do whatever the content is in order to get the "OP gear" which they think will suddenly add 20K to their DPS. Not knowing that (1) it will not, and (2) you don't need to hit 40k to farm Relequen, Siroria, or Alkosh.

Funny thing is that I see these DPS queries most often in nMOL or nCR. They are almost exclusively from clowns who are there to farm gear as fast as possible. Not making excuses, but I can see why some lie. Then, when their lie succeeds, and they breeze through an nCR run, they might think their DPS is way better than it really is. "Hey, I just ran something where the crown demanded that I hit 30K. I must be pretty good."

So fast forward to that player's first vMOL when they are hit up again, or told you should hit 25-30K minimum, they think "well, I did nCR, so I should be able to do this." Then they can't hold their own on the pillars boss. And the group gets upset. And the player can't figure out why they suddenly are bad.

Again, not an excuse, and people should know their DPS before doing vet content, but I can see where this comes from.

TBH - I have seen this many times

p00tx · December 2018

Royaji wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Ryzakier wrote: »

29-31k self buffed on my Magden prior to Nermfire on a good day with the dummy, maybe 26-28k on bad day. Average numbers compared to most folk, but I'm pretty happy with it given my usual ping and old wrist injury i need to be mindful of when playing.
However due to persistent high ping issues I haven't been able to dummy test or DPS group content properly for nearly two months now

These are not average numbers. I think the end game community is waaaaay out of touch with the rest of the community on here. The average DPS for the average player in this game is probably closer to 5k, which is fine for overland PvE and questing and normal dungeons. At 20K, you are higher than most people in this game. Anything between 20-30K is really good, while anything over 30K is freaking outstanding. Those freakshows hitting over 50K are not even human anymore. I don't know what they are exactly, but I imagine they all have cyborg hands.

5k is what a fully specced tank will be doing just from using pierce armor, heroic slach and heavy attacks.

If you have two arms and half a brain you are capable of 30k DPS.

Right...a fully specced tank. But the average player is not fully specced and is not full golded out with maximized champ points and perfected raid gear. My end game healer can hit 10K just from throwing out Lightning Blockade and Shards during her regular rotation, but it's also wearing full gold gear and carefully placed champ points. The average player is wearing crafted and casually farmed overland gear with patchy champ points and probably some blue items. The average player probably spends more time doing overland dailies and views world bosses as a big challenge. The average player might spend 99% of their time in PvP and has never even done a parse before. That is completely normal. You guys are on a totally different level, and while I know these other guys are 100% capable of hitting 30K, it's just not what they're doing right now.

FrancisCrawford · December 2018

VagabondLife wrote: »

HobosEverywear wrote: »

You have the same

No you don't. My magsorc wears BSW and Illambris. They both proc much more frequently when I'm fighting multiple enemies. So if a boss fight has ANY adds at all, my ST damage (on JUST the boss) will still be much higher than when I'm just beating up a single target dummy.

Good points. But I'd be surprised if that amounted to much more than a 10% total increase in true single-target DPS. Most likely it would be even less.

BooPerScOOper · December 2018

Aisle9 wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

Colecovision wrote: »

BooPerScOOper wrote: »

Endless Hail -(bar swap) LA | REPEAT |

That's a lot of damage for that rotation. 7.3k dps from releqen + selens. Was this before or after the nerf?

I don't mean to derail, it's just an interesting post to me.

10-20-2018

That's a bit low for hail, tho. No maelstrom bow ?

MA bow... I know I swapped before hail hit several times

add a bash to your rotation, before swapping, so you can have random drains as well xD

lol yeah.. It was a quick bs parse I did to prove that some people trying to get into our core (doing full rotations) could not cut it.

heng14rwb17_ESO · December 2018

DEV HAS ALR BAN THOSE ADD ON THAT CAN LOOK AT OTHER PEOPLE DPS !

Royaji · December 2018

p00tx wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Ryzakier wrote: »

29-31k self buffed on my Magden prior to Nermfire on a good day with the dummy, maybe 26-28k on bad day. Average numbers compared to most folk, but I'm pretty happy with it given my usual ping and old wrist injury i need to be mindful of when playing.
However due to persistent high ping issues I haven't been able to dummy test or DPS group content properly for nearly two months now

These are not average numbers. I think the end game community is waaaaay out of touch with the rest of the community on here. The average DPS for the average player in this game is probably closer to 5k, which is fine for overland PvE and questing and normal dungeons. At 20K, you are higher than most people in this game. Anything between 20-30K is really good, while anything over 30K is freaking outstanding. Those freakshows hitting over 50K are not even human anymore. I don't know what they are exactly, but I imagine they all have cyborg hands.

5k is what a fully specced tank will be doing just from using pierce armor, heroic slach and heavy attacks.

If you have two arms and half a brain you are capable of 30k DPS.

Right...a fully specced tank. But the average player is not fully specced and is not full golded out with maximized champ points and perfected raid gear. My end game healer can hit 10K just from throwing out Lightning Blockade and Shards during her regular rotation, but it's also wearing full gold gear and carefully placed champ points. The average player is wearing crafted and casually farmed overland gear with patchy champ points and probably some blue items. The average player probably spends more time doing overland dailies and views world bosses as a big challenge. The average player might spend 99% of their time in PvP and has never even done a parse before. That is completely normal. You guys are on a totally different level, and while I know these other guys are 100% capable of hitting 30K, it's just not what they're doing right now.

Fully specced tank means 1300 weapon damage, 20k stamina and 100/100 in Blessed/Elfborn. BiS gold tanking gear does not help with DPS. No matter how patchy your CPs are you are still better off than someone who deliberately does not put anything towards their damage.

30k DPS can be done in something like purple Hunding's/Spriggan's and this is more than achievable for anyone who wants to dedicate just a bif of effort to getting better.

Girl_Number8 · December 2018

Those with great dps don't need threads on this because we're doing the content, having fun and taking the time to teach new guild members in good standing how to maximize their dps and builds. Idc as long as the person is chill and not toxic. If you're not having a good time then you missed the whole point of what you're paying for. That is the true dummy test of any game.

BooPerScOOper · December 2018

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Those with great dps don't need threads on this because we're doing the content, having fun and taking the time to teach new guild members in good standing how to maximize their dps and builds. Idc as long as the person is chill and not toxic. If you're not having a good time then you missed the whole point of what you're paying for. That is the true dummy test of any game.

Get outta here with all that logic stuff...

El_Borracho · December 2018

@Girl_Number8 Totally agree. But DPS queries in guilds are far different from PUG DPS queries, which is what I assume the OP is talking about. I would like to think people in guilds would not lie about their DPS, just as the questioner wouldn't act like an elitist tool about it.

Most of the time, in the vet PUGs I've run with, people have the DPS and experience. And if they are lacking either, its the experience with mechanics as a result of being unfamiliar with the trial or dungeon. That can be overcome. What can not be overcome is low DPS in some content. Said it before, but vMOL is an example of that. If someone lies about their DPS in a place like vMOL, it stands out like a sore thumb and makes it less fun for everyone.

Basic rule: Just tell the truth. If you have 15K DPS, tell us. If you don't know your DPS, that's okay, too. More times than not, we will tell you why you will struggle and not be snobs about it. Its the guy who lies that prompts the rude replies.

Aisle9 · December 2018

El_Borracho wrote: »

Girl_Number8 Totally agree. But DPS queries in guilds are far different from PUG DPS queries, which is what I assume the OP is talking about. I would like to think people in guilds would not lie about their DPS, just as the questioner wouldn't be act like an elitist tool about it.

Most of the time, in the PUGs I've run with, people have the DPS and experience. And if they are lacking either, its the experience with mechanics as a result of being unfamiliar with the trial or dungeon. That can be overcome. What can not be overcome is low DPS in some content. Said it before, but vMOL is an example of that. Not trying to be a jerk, but if someone lies about their DPS in a place like vMOL, it does make it less fun for everyone.

vMoL HM is the hardest piece content available for raids currently, if you take away the practice some people have, due to it being released with TG.

Pugs are notoriously unreliable.

Do the math.

If you want to do that kind of content, you premade. Worst case scenario, you grab a couple if you're missing people, but you'll still have issues on twins with people not understanding mechanics and exploding others, high enough dps would only be partially an issue as experienced tanks can manage a couple waves of 4 adds. I'd be annoying, but manageable.

On a side note, 32k single target individual dps is way not enough to skip lunar phase in vMoL HM, just saying.

Rylisin · December 2018

These are not average numbers. I think the end game community is waaaaay out of touch with the rest of the community on here. The average DPS for the average player in this game is probably closer to 5k, which is fine for overland PvE and questing and normal dungeons. At 20K, you are higher than most people in this game. Anything between 20-30K is really good, while anything over 30K is freaking outstanding. Those freakshows hitting over 50K are not even human anymore. I don't know what they are exactly, but I imagine they all have cyborg hands.

@p00tx, ahh I see. I don't really get to play much overland / group dungeon content anymore as i've been reduced to a healer role because of the ping. The main guild i'm in is full of end-game players who are always posting their 45-50k+ scores so I've been under the impression i was a mere average player. I do certainly agree with you on that last part! My hands just hurt thinking about all the button spamming

Kurat · December 2018

Your DPS means nothing if you can't stay alive. I see dummy parse warriors almost every time when forming trial group. People claiming to pull impressive numbers but when in trial later, I somehow always end up doing 20+% of group dps while my dummy parse is not even near theirs.
I also see ppl sometimes post their dps in group chat after killed dungeon mini boss lol. Or boss with ads.
Your dps means nothing if it's not sustainable, dont know mechanics and cant stay alive.

El_Borracho · December 2018

@Aisle9 Agree with everything you said. Especially this:

On a side note, 32k single target individual dps is way not enough to skip lunar phase in vMoL HM, just saying.

Have yet to run a vMOL HM, and my DPS is the reason why. I would never subject a group to that for the sake of an achievement. HMs are for people who have the burn and know the mechanics. HM in vAA or vHRC is one thing, vMOL is other worldly. Have not run vet enough to get there, nor have I perfected my rotation.

I only run vMOL and most of that other hard content with guildies or players I've run other trials with. I've been called in off the bench to try to help random or premade "normal" vMOL runs that are imploding from time to time. The twins are the #1 reason. #2 has been because of slow burn on the pillars. Obviously, I am not some OP DPS guy. But when 2-3 of us can port in and the first response is "Wow, this is much better burn," it always makes me wonder who was in there before.

EDIT: And as to the vMOL HM, I would never, EVER pay for a skin or carry. But that's a whole other topic...

Jeremy · December 2018

Facefister wrote: »

This game needs a public DPS meter. We expect everyone doing his/her job don't we? Everyone expects the tank and the healer to do their job properly, why do we have such a broad tolerance about DDs and their jobs? When it takes 5 minutes to burn down a 1m hp miniboss then a DD does not do his/her job properly.

This game has "broad tolerance" about DDs and their jobs?

haha

I don't know what game you are playing, but I think it's safe to say it must not be the same one I am. Because 90% of the people I see kicked from dungeons are DDs - and often times they are booted before the first pull even starts. They are usually kicked simply due their CP score alone.

And if someone in the party dares to be so insolent as to refuse the vote kick they usually leave the group in protest rather than share oxygen with them.

Just look at your own post as an example. You believe if a mini boss takes a few more minutes to kill then suddenly that means they are not "doing their job properly". Never mind the fact they were able to kill it in 5 minutes. But that's not good enough. They have to kill it in a single minute otherwise they are fake!

That's not tolerance Facefister.

wolf486 · December 2018

This is why after I hit level 30-35 I just stop doing random dungeons and continue on with my solo pve fun. I'm not a fake dps, just don't hit the levels that min/maxers will ever want. I suspect the "fake dps" attitude is why less and less people bother with end game vet content.

Facefister · December 2018

@Jeremy
I am talking about the community itself. A tank has to tank, a healer has to heal, but there dozens of mental gymnastics why 5k dps is fine.

Yes, they're not doing their job properly when the tank or the healer does more damage than the DD itself.
You're doing less damage than the healer or the tank, you don't tank, you don't heal... what are you then? Certainly not a Damage Dealer.

If the mini-boss is still alive after the third horn then there is something fundamentally wrong with your build, skill or both.

mustangmorgan31 · December 2018

A DD should be doing more damage than the healer and tank. If the healer just throwing shards and focussing mainly on healing and doing 50 percent of the dps, I don't think one of the DPS can call themselves a damage dealer. I once queued on my tank for Vet blessed crucible and the first pull, I was pulling 45 percent of the dps just tanking...I just left the group because it would have been pointless to continue.

BoneShatterer · December 2018

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