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Major Exploit: Undaunted Daily Randoms

  • JoeCapricorn
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    I don't think it's an exploit per say.

    I was in a situation where we all ended up in normal March of Sacrifices and we were having difficulty on the first boss.

    Someone suggested teleporting to an easier dungeon, so we did, and it still counted for the reward.

    It was exactly like this last year too.
    I simp for vampire lords and Glemyos Wildhorn
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    Ertosi wrote: »
    (OP could have PM'd a mod detail just as easily vs making a forum post.)

    One provides feedback, the other draws attention. Just throwing that out there.

    Is PMing the mod stuff like this considered acceptable? When deciding which of those two actions would be the best course, I certainly would have preferred a PM but honestly felt it presumptuous to directly contact any mod and instead used the commonly seen method of @'ing their names to invite them to the conversation, if interested.
    @Ertosi in the case of reporting a potential exploit, a direct PM is more than acceptable. It might get passed on to another to get detail, but it will get the ball rolling.

    Public notice (like this) isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself, but it will tend to expose the how-to a bit at a time for those that know or figure out what is being referred to (such as it has here.)

    It also tends to make people dig deeper, trying to find that thing of which no one speaks.

    You're not wrong for bringing it up, I just don't think they'll view it as dire, nor fix it anytime *soon.

    EDIT: In fact, I suspect if you put the word EXPLOIT in the subject, you're likely to get a faster response.

    People tag 50 mods here when they don't like a certain shade of yellow dye. I suspect they sort through post tags like we sort through inventory. It's the forum equivalent of putting the same antenna ball on every car in the parking lot. Kind of defeats the purpose, but everybody's thread is the most important one. Just ask them.



    Edited by Merlin13KAGL on December 2, 2018 3:04PM
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
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  • JoeCapricorn
    JoeCapricorn
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Can I please have some official word on this scenario? I keep hearing "they say it is an exploit" but I haven't found any actual official word on whether it is or not.

    Sometimes a random dungeon places us in one that is too difficult for everyone. I was in a group that attempted March of Sacrifices and we could not get through the first boss.

    In that instance, we picked an easier dungeon to teleport to, which was Fungal Grotto I. I was not group leader, but I agreed with moving to FG1 because one of our members already quit in frustration and I was on a weaker character.

    Do we not have a right to do this?

    Or is there a different way to do another random dungeon without penalizing each group member for 15 minutes?

    I simp for vampire lords and Glemyos Wildhorn
  • Kova
    Kova
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    Just finished getting told off for putting my trash out an hour too early by some HOA neighbor to come onto the forums and it's like the dude followed me.

    Honestly I'm happy someone can be so sure the abject morality they've cultivated in life is the correct one.

    But let me pose a question: Can a player not choose a specific dungeon from the list to group into?

    Yes.

    So if the only difference between this being an exploit or and allowable function is the order in which a player decides to choose a dungeon, then it would appear there's a dire need for an explanation of pragmatism and how we should use it more.

    If you want to go by the book, then I implore those who have been so harmed by this "exploit" to find the clear meaning set by ZoS as to what random means. And no, "well obviously it means..."

    You dont get to be practical and irrationally meticulous and still be considered a reasonable participant.
    Edited by Kova on December 2, 2018 11:07PM
    EP Sorc: Aydinn
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    DC Stamblade: Apple`Punch
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    AD DragonKnight: Transmigrant
    EP NIghtblade: Aydinn
  • kargen27
    kargen27
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    Kova wrote: »
    Just finished getting told off for putting my trash out an hour too early by some HOA neighbor to come onto the forums and it's like the dude followed me.

    Honestly I'm happy someone can be so sure the abject morality they've cultivated in life is the correct one.

    But let me pose a question: Can a player not choose a specific dungeon from the list to group into?

    Yes.

    So if the only difference between this being an exploit or and allowable function is the order in which a player decides to choose a dungeon, then it would appear there's a dire need for an explanation of pragmatism and how we should use it more.

    If you want to go by the book, then I implore those who have been so harmed by this "exploit" to find the clear meaning set by ZoS as to what random means. And no, "well obviously it means..."

    You dont get to be practical and irrationally meticulous and still be considered a reasonable participant.

    Yes a player can choose a specific dungeon but then that player doesn't get the daily reward. Let the game pick the dungeon for you and you get the daily reward whether you are in a pre-made group or in a random group. Your if/then is wrong because it is based on something that isn't true.

    And it is getting a bit frustrating having a group transport to fungal grotto as soon as they spawn no matter the dungeon they get and then one of them sends you a message saying "bro, you coming." If I wanted to do the same dungeon over and over again I would queue for it just like I did when farming gear.

    We all know this is about the mysterious boxes and how to obtain them with the least amount of effort.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • YamiKuruku
    YamiKuruku
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    yesterday we got spindleclutch 1 and the other two were seriously porting to Fungal Grotto 1...
    Seriously. It's frigging spindle 1! Why are people so annoying and just port instead of asking.

    Seriously i hate how you can see how many *** are around when there are social events like this.
    People that do stuff because they get stuff and not because they enjoy it.

    I dont mind getting whatever dungeon the game gives me when going random, i love doing randoms.
    After seeing how those coward asses ported to FG1 my gf and me just left the group. Seriously. Egoistic ***.
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  • Ruinhorn
    Ruinhorn
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    This "feature" has been reported for many times.
    Did we hear anything from ZOS about this problem, like they like to say "we're aware and invesigating this problem"? Did we see any feedback? No. They don't care because it's not a Crown Store related problem.

    A lot of people just go FG1 because they can skip 2 bosses there. Btw, the fact you can skip two bosses there is well known for years. Isn't it an exploit?

    Did they expect people with 14 characters will do ICP and DLC dungeons (which can't be excluded from random list despite people asked for many times) and spend the whole day for this? Maybe it would be easier to make, let's say, 1 box for random, 1 bow for delve and q box for anchors/geysers = 3 per account, not one per character (amount is just for an example).

    No. They. Don't care. Obviously they know it. And they will have to ban a lot of people, because many players do this atm. If I were ZOS, banning a huge amount of players would be an end of ESO as a business model right now. We see how more and more people talk and complain about things ZOS doesn't care at all. We see how their actions say "hey, we don't care, so go away and shut up", because all bugs and bots reports are being ignored, and forum censorship with absolute ignorance of playerbase say about it. ZOS rules don't even allow to disclosure informanion if they solved a problem with any bot/player you reported! No, I don't ask info about ban or smth, at least tell me if you solved the problem in any way you decided to chose. No! Agains of TOS... Stupid.

    Summary: if FG1 is an exploit, ban half of players and don't fix anything. Don't fix completely broken LFG tool, don't fix this and many other bugs, no need. Censorship, ingorance and bans.
    You know, I thought capitalism works in a bit different wat. Mostly looks like something different...
    Edited by Ruinhorn on December 3, 2018 4:11PM
  • AllegraLionheart
    It's all fun and games until you're trying to do a DLC dungeon pledge, and the rest of your Q ports to Fungal Grotto I.

    Sums it up.

    Also, with regards as to "Why is it a big deal?"
    Sportsmanship.
    PC/NA
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    GM - Chal Basement Battalion, PvP Guild (Gray Host)
  • Iselin
    Iselin
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    I don't think it's much of an "exploit" and porting to an easier dungeon is as old as the hills.

    Having said that it's cheesy as hell and seems to be a thing for people who hate running dungeons and just play it for the reward. When someone has suggested doing that this past week I just ignore them and carry on with whatever we got.

    I swear some people act like they're being forced to play ESO against their will lol. "Oh no it's Selene's. Whatever will I do?"
    Edited by Iselin on December 3, 2018 4:22PM
  • Merlin13KAGL
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    Runs wrote: »
    Premade 4 person groups doing it, are harmless. But outside of that there actually is harm...

    Person A queues for say ICP, cause he needs it for a pledge, or needs to do the quest. He gets paired with 3 people who chose random.

    Those 3 people want the easy FG1, but person A doesn't need or want to do that dungeon. He is either forced to drop or get vote kicked out of group or wait for those 3 to finish FG1 so he can requeue. Every instance of that situation he gets screwed out of his time and is forced to wait before he can queue again.
    It's all fun and games until you're trying to do a DLC dungeon pledge, and the rest of your Q ports to Fungal Grotto I.

    Sums it up.

    Also, with regards as to "Why is it a big deal?"
    Sportsmanship.
    The 'fix' for this has to come from ZoS's side. It would be as simple as cancelling the RDF Daily flag as soon as a different instance was entered, or simply denying access to any other instance without disbanding.

    Still want to FG1? Fine, but your daily bonus XP (and in this case, the Mystery Box) just got cancelled in the process.

    The problem with both examples above is that it doesn't change anything for the person wanting a specific instance. People not willing to complete the instance will sooner disband, take the penalty, or switch to an alt with no penalty. It leaves ICP pledge guy in the wind, same as in the current state.

    It's why it was previously recommended not to have specifics in mind during this event, whether it be quest dialogue related or specific clear related, because the odds of accomplishing the goal will be even lower than normal.

    There are exceptions to this, of course, especially if it's made known in group chat, but most are going to be in it for the quicker and simpler completions, not first time training sessions for MoS, RoM, or long drawn out maps most have completed 1000 times.

    Not saying it makes it right, and certainly makes it difficult for the people wanting specifics, but it's a side effect of events like this. People intent on not running longer, more difficult instances will simply leave group and wait.

    It analogous to wanting to sight-see during rush hour traffic. You can try it, but expect to run into issues as a result.

    EDIT: A better event proposal would have been limited to a handful per account per day, because people wouldn't feel compelled to have to repeat as many as possible and would be less rushed as a result. TL;DR: Once again, they've kind of done it to themselves, because this promotes quick clears, not necessarily the group cooperation and learning they might have been hoping for.



    Edited by Merlin13KAGL on December 3, 2018 5:13PM
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Mureel
    Mureel
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    Biiig who cares.
  • Mureel
    Mureel
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    People bent about this imho expect to queue and get carries for the dungeons they need. Whelp sorry Charlie.

    I’ve done every dungeon in this game repeatedly and if I deign to do a random normal (which I almost never do; I take random vet, ty!); it sure as heck won’t be a slog like ICP or a wipefest even on normal like some dlc ones can be for certain groups.

    I just have no sympathy on this one.
  • Ertosi
    Ertosi
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    Sometimes a random dungeon places us in one that is too difficult for everyone. I was in a group that attempted March of Sacrifices and we could not get through the first boss.

    In that instance, we picked an easier dungeon to teleport to, which was Fungal Grotto I. I was not group leader, but I agreed with moving to FG1 because one of our members already quit in frustration and I was on a weaker character.

    Do we not have a right to do this?

    This is the only valid reason I've seen yet for why such a thing exists, other than it just being an oversight on their part. But even this isn't a good enough reason for this to be allowed as too many will just use it as an excuse to keep immediately teleporting to the Dungeon of their choosing.

    There's a tremendous difference between honestly giving a dungeon a good go and purposely exploiting a system.

    If their intent was to allow for people who truly attempted a harder dungeon than was assigned as their Random, then they should forbid teleporting out of your assigned dungeon to another for the first 15 minutes of the run. Use the same system as the Dungeon Finder cool down timer that's already in place. This would fully allow those truly trying to do what you suggested to do so while completely eliminating the ability for others to keep exploiting it.
    Edited by Ertosi on December 3, 2018 5:36PM
    PC NA @Ertosi
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  • AllegraLionheart
    Mureel wrote: »
    People bent about this imho expect to queue and get carries for the dungeons they need.
    That's a heavy assumption that weighs out to be untrue for the vast majority. It also still doesn't answer the Pledge issue. No matter how good of a player you are, you need a team to finish dungeons, and your friends and guildies aren't always there 100% of the time to help. So, you PUG it real quick. Sometimes you clear it, sometimes it clears you, and sometimes you end up teaching somebody the mechanics before you can continue. However, that's not a carry.

    And that's OK. :) None of us were born great at these dungeons and their mechanics, no matter how many tutorials you watch on YouTube.
    PC/NA
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    GM - Chal Basement Battalion, PvP Guild (Gray Host)
  • JoeCapricorn
    JoeCapricorn
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    Last night I ran 10 dungeons and all 10 went smoothly, even though one of those was Scalecaller Peak. I was on a somewhat well developed character, but I was running as a healer which I didn't have much experience with - on a Magicka Warden. It was pretty fun though, if challenging! There was definitely a fight that was a healer test.

    By the end of it, when I went through a dungeon on my last toon, I was glad the random dungeon was a short one. My wrists were getting sore. :P

    I wonder if, after 15 minutes in a dungeon, if it is possible to queue for a different random dungeon while in that dungeon. If Scalecaller had proven to be too much for my group, would that have worked?

    And if not, would going eeny meeny miney mo and teleporting into a random alliance zone dungeon be better than jumping right into FG1?
    I simp for vampire lords and Glemyos Wildhorn
  • idk
    idk
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    yodased wrote: »
    This probably isn't going to end in the way you think its going to, but if you feel that this is an exploit you have every right to report it.

    Just to let you know, this has been something that has been done since the group finder began and has been reported so many times people just stopped reporting it.

    Putting yourself out there like this may very well reflect negatively with certain sectors of the game.

    It goes beyond they have a right to report this. They should report what they think is an exploit. If it is what I think it is then it is clearly an exploit and should be fixed.

    It is irrelevant if some may be negative about OP reporting it. Lazy abusers often complain about such things.

    However, Zos has ignored GF for so long that they are clearly showing a lack of will so I expect Zos will be quietly accepting this exploit. That does not mean it is not an exploit.

    Players should just kick the person and be done with it. They are in a normal dungeon anyhow so eve if it is the tank or healer role doing the exploit they are likely fake anyhow and you can clear it without them.

    LOL. I just read some of the other posts., I is entertaining how one person seems to be trying suggest exploits can be argued from both sides. Yes, often the lazy exploiters try to defend their actions, loudly.
    Edited by idk on December 3, 2018 6:23PM
  • JadonSky
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    Just to start i'v never switch dungeons when using the Random Dungeon finder or have I yet been in a group during this event that has switch to an easier dungeon. Sadly I came across this forum when looking for details on fixing the dungeon finder always saying someone wasn't ready. But the fact is it's not an exploit until ZOS confirms it as one. Kinda frustrating seeing people in here saying "We should ban players using this!!".

    All you can do is submit a ticket if you think it is an exploit and if its confirmed then players are expects to follow the TOS. Until then if you think its immoral, dishonest, etc. well that sucks for you. If you don't like it don't do it. No one is forcing you.

    Also at the end of the day its a game just have fun it will all go back to normal after the event. And secondly can't we focus on bigger fish like actually getting the DF to work! or maybe fixing all the performance issues in the game. I feel like if this is a bug its way low on the totem pole
  • Ardaghion
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    I wouldn't call it an exploit, more of a cheese. But to be fair, if anyone can queue for a random dungeon then port to an easy dungeon of their choice, ZOS should have simply made the reward boxes a reward for doing any dungeons. My partner and I only wanted to the get the event tickets so we've duo'd BC1, SC1, EH1, FG1, and WS1 for our first dungeon runs ever. I think that deserves a few reward boxes. ;)
  • Swift_One
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    Major Exploit? LOL...Seeing as how it's been around forever and ZOS doesn't feel the need to address it, I don't think they consider it major or care at all.
  • Trinity_Is_My_Name
    Trinity_Is_My_Name
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    Thank you for posting this. It should be fixed so it cannot be done. Three of us needed COA2 the other day so we PUGGED the Tank. Instead of a Tank we got a DPS that immediately ported to Fungal Grotto 1 since it was his "Random" and he only wanted the easy path for his Mystery Box.


  • speedking79
    You have my 100% support! I hate this Fungus Grotto Teleporter! Happened 3 times in the last 2 days. I was not listed for random i needed the dungeons for the pledges. They spoke in a language i did not speak and off they where. And i got 15 minutes suspended because i left. Not cool.
  • THEMourningLily
    THEMourningLily
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    Ruinhorn wrote: »

    A lot of people just go FG1 because they can skip 2 bosses there. Btw, the fact you can skip two bosses there is well known for years. Isn't it an exploit?

    If it is an exploit...I'm gonna assume that ZoS knows and is thumbing their noses at us. How has no one else ever noticed or or commented on the fact that a chest often spawns directly under that bridge that you swim under to reach the spider boss in both fungal I and fungal 2? Why draw attention to this by making it a spawn spot for loot if you didn't have some inkling that people could go that route to circumvent two bosses? Not to mention - if they really cared about all bosses being killed - it would be a requirement that all bosses be killed in order for the dungeon to be completed. But it's not. *shrugs*

    Edited by THEMourningLily on December 4, 2018 11:48PM
  • Derbforgaill
    Derbforgaill
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    I've asked in the general forum whether this is an exploit. It seems like this has been going on since the very beginning, and some people also complained last year during the event about it. Since ZOS hasn't done anything about it, nor said anything about the topic, it seems like this won't be getting fixed.

    I think it's an exploit and a sad way to work the system, but it doesn't look like it will go away for the moment....

    The thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/448189/random-dungeon-is-tp-to-another-dungeon-eg-fungal-grotto-an-exploit-cheat#latest
  • UppGRAYxDD
    UppGRAYxDD
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    lol....this whole QQ is just funny to me...just wait till later today to get back to Pugn dungeons.
    "Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."
  • Derbforgaill
    Derbforgaill
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    From the above-mentioned thread: German ZOS people have addressed this issue
    sudaki_eso wrote: »
    This discussion is still going on? Why is here no offical response like we got in the german forum which would end this discussion in seconds?

    This is what ZOS said about it:
    Das ist sicher nicht im Sinne des Erfinders, wie man so schön sagt. Allerdings verstehe ich auch, wenn jemand z.B. in der Mittagspause oder bei begrenzter Zeit im Spiel unglücklich ist, wenn er bei Zufallsverliesen eines der komplizierteren oder längerwierigeren zugewiesen bekommt.

    Ich sehe keinen Grund, das zu ahnden aber vielleicht können wir es spieltechnisch für die Zukunft unterbinden.

    In english:
    That is certainly not in the sense of the inventor, as the saying goes. However, I also understand when someone, e.g. is unhappy in the lunch break or limited time in the game, when he gets assigned to one of the more complicated or longer-lasting random dungeons.

    I see no reason to punish this, but maybe we can stop it for the future.

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/comment/5646569/#Comment_5646569

  • Depoorter92
    Will we get an extra day of the Undaunted event? Instead of the first day when the dungeon finder was broken...
    And I opened my 61 reward boxes... All of them contained motifs, nothing else... You really should give us a higher drop rate to get a pet, costume, mount...All that effort.., for nothing... It should be fun, not frustrating.
  • Malamar1229
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    An easier fix would be to stop the waterfall shortcut.

    The fact players circumvent should shed light on existing problems:
    - DLC dungeons suck as random dungeon popups. Pugs make it a terrible experience
    - fungal grotto has a shortcut making it a quick and easy random
    - non dlc dungeons are solo able
    - the normal queue times for dps are longer than heals and tanks, so we have "fake tanks" to circumvent. Maybe do away with the traditional tank, heals, dps roles, I dont know.
    Edited by Malamar1229 on December 5, 2018 4:12PM
  • Canasta
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    An easier fix would be to stop the waterfall shortcut.

    The fact players circumvent should shed light on existing problems:
    - DLC dungeons suck as random dungeon popups. Pugs make it a terrible experience
    - fungal grotto has a shortcut making it a quick and easy random
    - non dlc dungeons are solo able
    - the normal queue times for dps are longer than heals and tanks, so we have "fake tanks" to circumvent. Maybe do away with the traditional tank, heals, dps roles, I dont know.

    The waterfall is a shortcut !! I thought it was the normal way to do it, I feel bad now, ive never done it the longer way.

    Anyway I think the reason Zenimax was silent on this issue was because it helped with the queue fiasco if people were doing thier random dalies faster by porting to FG.
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