Heavy armor needs to change. It needs to be on the same ground as light and medium.

starkerealm · November 2018

Cavedog wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/444898/movement-speed-reduction-for-heavy-armor-to-help-balance-with-other-armor-weights#latest

When comparing the threads on this general topic, it's evident that it's the same detractors going thread to thread to poo on any suggestion that heavy armor needs some balancing......this is not a coincidence. They are promoting the use of their unbalanced gear.

You don't suppose that it's because the people who actually understand the armor system think it's a terrible idea.

Also, Heavy is already the slowest armor in the game, and you want it to be slower?

Chilly-McFreeze · November 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

Cavedog wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/444898/movement-speed-reduction-for-heavy-armor-to-help-balance-with-other-armor-weights#latest

When comparing the threads on this general topic, it's evident that it's the same detractors going thread to thread to poo on any suggestion that heavy armor needs some balancing......this is not a coincidence. They are promoting the use of their unbalanced gear.

You don't suppose that it's because the people who actually understand the armor system think it's a terrible idea.

Also, Heavy is already the slowest armor in the game, and you want it to be slower?

Never understood why people ask for HA speed debuffs while completely ignoring the speed/snare buffs the others have. Must be my inner self trying to poo on yet another nerf thread.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · November 2018

Only the real problem here is heavy armor sets that let you match and even out DPS light and medium builds.

Lieblingsjunge · November 2018

Heavy armour itself isn't the issue. It's the sets like Ravager, Seventh Legion and the likes, that ruins the reputation of Heavy Armour. When you can get 500 free WD, on top of already high WD you can stack cus of HA-returns in HA.... Then you know you're getting into trouble.

When heavy stamina DKs and Stamdens can run 900 recovery, two damage heavy proc-sets and just burst people down, and then heavy attack once to get half the resource-bar back again. They also get the Quick Rec/Healing recieved boni, making their healing even stronger, and harder to deal with.(Which is right, it's heavy... But you can still get as much damage as someone in medium with the sets.. Then idk, man. Idk.).

For magicka it's a bit different, but not too much. You still get a lot more resources back + you're a tad bit tankier. But magicka usually relies on burst-heals or shields to stay afloat, and not so much dots, so their healing recieved isn't that obvious there. Besides- there aren't any 500 SD proc-sets for magicka....

Idk. They just need to change the heavy armour dmg-proc sets to medium. Then all gucci.

Bashev · November 2018

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Idk. They just need to change the heavy armour dmg-proc sets to medium. Then all gucci.

Yeah and then multiply this weapon damage by 15% and ole lele.

Lieblingsjunge · November 2018

Bashev wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Idk. They just need to change the heavy armour dmg-proc sets to medium. Then all gucci.

Yeah and then multiply this weapon damage by 15% and ole lele.

At least they do what they're supposed to do, then. Getting some nutjob damage. Although, guess you wouldhave to adjust a bit. But HA dealing more damage than current MA... Whilst having so many good boni.. Idk. It's not cool, man. Not cool at all.

Beffagorn · November 2018

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Heavy armour itself isn't the issue. It's the sets like Ravager, Seventh Legion and the likes, that ruins the reputation of Heavy Armour. When you can get 500 free WD, on top of already high WD you can stack cus of HA-returns in HA.... Then you know you're getting into trouble.

Ravager and 7th Legion are perfectly fine as they are. Without those sets HA would not be viable for anything outside of PvE tanking. There's a reason why 95% HA builds for all classes use 7th/Ravager/Fury. The remaining 5% is Shacklebreaker and all the others.

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

When heavy stamina DKs and Stamdens can run 900 recovery, two damage heavy proc-sets and just burst people down, and then heavy attack once to get half the resource-bar back again. They also get the Quick Rec/Healing recieved boni, making their healing even stronger, and harder to deal with.(Which is right, it's heavy... But you can still get as much damage as someone in medium with the sets.. Then idk, man. Idk.).

+25% resource return on Heavy Attacks = Half resource bar back. Doesn't get more hyperbolic than this. Try wearing 7th + Ravager at the same time. Sure, you're going to have a really strong burst, but outside that you're going to be useless. You won't have enough stamina to sprint, break free or roll. You won't even have enough regen to sustain a simple rotation. If you think of recovering your stam only through heavy attacks, GL HF. 0 recovery for great burst. A fair trade that has multiple downsides to it.

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

For magicka it's a bit different, but not too much. You still get a lot more resources back + you're a tad bit tankier. But magicka usually relies on burst-heals or shields to stay afloat, and not so much dots, so their healing recieved isn't that obvious there. Besides- there aren't any 500 SD proc-sets for magicka....

Idk. They just need to change the heavy armour dmg-proc sets to medium. Then all gucci.

Spell Strategist. There you go, you have your 500SD proc set.

Changing sets like Ravager + 7th Legion to Medium would surpass Murkmire release day enchants change in terms of sheer stupidity. By a lot. Not only you would completely destroy HA outside of tanking, but builds that can reach 6k+ WD would be common.

All types of armors are balanced at the moment. Let's keep it this way

AbysmalGhul · November 2018

Why do I have this feeling that the nerf-hammer is going to swing this direction?

Valrien · November 2018

Heavy armor is fine

Heavy armor sets are not fine

Cortimi · November 2018

Every single character I have is in heavy armor. If it's a magicka class: they get Inate Axiom. If it's a stamina class, they get Shacklebreaker or a 7th/Ravager's armor set. Then I farm a dropped set of weapons and jewelry that goes along best with what I want to do.

Anyone who says that they wouldn't use a Magicka version of 7th/Ravager's in heavy is telling lies out their hoo-ha. Is it optimized as end-all be-all? Of course not, but it's solid, inexpensive, and will handle 99% of players in PvP.

The problem isn't Heavy itself though, it's the fact that you NEED it to survive more than three seconds in PvP. If you are such a gank superstar that you only hunt noobs you can drop someone in 3 seconds and disappear, then you probably wear light/med. Everyone else uses Heavy.

Chilly-McFreeze · November 2018

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Idk. They just need to change the heavy armour dmg-proc sets to medium. Then all gucci.

Yeah and then multiply this weapon damage by 15% and ole lele.

At least they do what they're supposed to do, then. Getting some nutjob damage. Although, guess you wouldhave to adjust a bit. But HA dealing more damage than current MA... Whilst having so many good boni.. Idk. It's not cool, man. Not cool at all.

Hue hue hue. Have fun getting critted 25 times in medium for 860 weapon damage. Sounds like a really good idea on both ends and will totally stop any heavy armor build from slotting it as jewelry or weapons.

On a serious note, you could already do that the other way around. And it makes no sense to simply swap sets like 7th or Fury from heavy to medium, alone because how they proc doesn't really play into the strength of medium armor. Ravager, Truth or Veiled Heritance on the other hand... Senche's Bite/ Way of the Air are sets that have their proc condition tuned to medium.

However, I'm all for adding new high stats sets as medium instead of only dmg proc sets. And I'm okay with slightly tuning 7th etc down. But as we know ZOS, their slight adjustments usually means that things become worthless. And nobody can actually want that.

Thrain · November 2018

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

In light armor you get big damage. Its meant for magic builds for sustain and damage. Medium you get big damage. Its for stam builds for sustain and damage. Heavy armor...you get ALL that plus more HP, more sustain and damage (depending on set) this is NOT GOOD. Heavy should be for TANKS. To be able to take hits and try and survive. NOT ALSO to be able to burst people down better than light and medium builds. Do you guys agree or disagree? is heavy armor fine as is? what changes do you think it needs.

Then show me the heavy armor passive wich gives you wpn dmg, mag or stamregn....

Lumenn · November 2018

AbysmalGhul wrote: »

Why do I have this feeling that the nerf-hammer is going to swing this direction?

I don't think it's gonna work like some want though. Remember this is Zos, givith with one hand, and crush you with the other. I love my stamina characters but most are magicka. The ones calling for a nerf to a skill LINE because of a few sets are going to end up with light armor taking INCREASED damage. Sure heavy might end up slower, but robes will be no mitigation at all(since we want to be "realistic" and all) especially after shields were adjusted this can put all magicka in a rough spot. Sure you can move and damage, but more one hit death. Glass cannon indeed...

Ragnarock41 · November 2018

Cavedog wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/444898/movement-speed-reduction-for-heavy-armor-to-help-balance-with-other-armor-weights#latest

When comparing the threads on this general topic, it's evident that it's the same detractors going thread to thread to poo on any suggestion that heavy armor needs some balancing......this is not a coincidence. They are promoting the use of their unbalanced gear.

Or could it be that your suggestion is really, really and really REALLY BAD?

starkerealm · November 2018

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Only the real problem here is heavy armor sets that let you match and even out DPS light and medium builds.

I was not aware people were pulling 60k in heavy armor. Link, please.

Ragnarock41 · November 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Idk. They just need to change the heavy armour dmg-proc sets to medium. Then all gucci.

Yeah and then multiply this weapon damage by 15% and ole lele.

At least they do what they're supposed to do, then. Getting some nutjob damage. Although, guess you wouldhave to adjust a bit. But HA dealing more damage than current MA... Whilst having so many good boni.. Idk. It's not cool, man. Not cool at all.

Hue hue hue. Have fun getting critted 25 times in medium for 860 weapon damage. Sounds like a really good idea on both ends and will totally stop any heavy armor build from slotting it as jewelry or weapons.

On a serious note, you could already do that the other way around. And it makes no sense to simply swap sets like 7th or Fury from heavy to medium, alone because how they proc doesn't really play into the strength of medium armor. Ravager, Truth or Veiled Heritance on the other hand... Senche's Bite/ Way of the Air are sets that have their proc condition tuned to medium.

However, I'm all for adding new high stats sets as medium instead of only dmg proc sets. And I'm okay with slightly tuning 7th etc down. But as we know ZOS, their slight adjustments usually means that things become worthless. And nobody can actually want that.

I'm using veiled on my medium stamDk (also ravager on MA stamplar), and uptime is very high and consistent. I have almost heavy armor resistances with almost %100 uptime on 5k weapon damage, and 20k vigors, troll king, and rally on top of that.

I'm so comfortable when it comes to damage and sustain that I'm thinking to go for orc+steed to solve my mobility problems. Because mobility is a bigger issue than doing damage or healing as of right now.

PS: I agree that fury and seventh are sets designed to work with HA playstyle, and that is fine. Instead of getting those nerfed people should ask for better medium sets that give them access to more weapon damage.

Frawr · November 2018

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

In light armor you get big damage. Its meant for magic builds for sustain and damage. Medium you get big damage. Its for stam builds for sustain and damage. Heavy armor...you get ALL that plus more HP, more sustain and damage (depending on set) this is NOT GOOD. Heavy should be for TANKS. To be able to take hits and try and survive. NOT ALSO to be able to burst people down better than light and medium builds. Do you guys agree or disagree? is heavy armor fine as is? what changes do you think it needs.

Game was designed so that:

- light uses shields
- medium uses dodge
- heavy uses mitigation

wasn't perfect, light was originally best since you could soft cap mitigation using light + immovable etc.

...and then Mr Wrobel took over in charge of combat.

Then we got:
- CP / removal of soft caps
- nerfs to everything to offset CP design (because soft caps were the balance
- hp reduced (scaled up by 7 when all other stats were scaled up by 10)
- damage massively increased (no diminishing returns)
- various others can't be bothered listing them

- proc set to try to bust ball groups because refused to remove aoe damage cap
- ball groups used the proc set (surprise surprise)
- proxy det to try to bust ball groups
- ball groups used the prox det (surprise surprise)
- realise that sets can be monetised whereas skills/abilities cannot
- nerf all skills because proc sets now do the damage instead of players pushing buttons.
- profit

ZOS is reducing player impact in combat because they can monetise it if the ability comes from the set instead of the ability (and now because they can add powerful new skill lines also gated behind pay walls).

Don't expect balance. I don't believe that they want balance. I believe that they want to keep the pendulum swinging back and forth so that people keep respecing and changing class - anything to keep them on the wheel and keep paying.

Goal is not to make pvp balanced.

Goal is to keep people grinding.

Jayman1000 · November 2018

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

In light armor you get big damage. Its meant for magic builds for sustain and damage. Medium you get big damage. Its for stam builds for sustain and damage. Heavy armor...you get ALL that plus more HP, more sustain and damage (depending on set) this is NOT GOOD. Heavy should be for TANKS. To be able to take hits and try and survive. NOT ALSO to be able to burst people down better than light and medium builds. Do you guys agree or disagree? is heavy armor fine as is? what changes do you think it needs.

I disagree, no change needed.