Heavy armor needs to change. It needs to be on the same ground as light and medium.

NinchiTV

In light armor you get big damage. Its meant for magic builds for sustain and damage. Medium you get big damage. Its for stam builds for sustain and damage. Heavy armor...you get ALL that plus more HP, more sustain and damage (depending on set) this is NOT GOOD. Heavy should be for TANKS. To be able to take hits and try and survive. NOT ALSO to be able to burst people down better than light and medium builds. Do you guys agree or disagree? is heavy armor fine as is? what changes do you think it needs.

ak_pvp

Completely disagree.

Heavy and more generally tanky is a method of survival. Unlike in other games it isn't heavy = no dmg but near immortal tank, light/med = high dmg but near oneshottable DD.

If you want to take heavies dmg away, you have to up its survival a very high amount (considering depending on the class or setup light/med is more survivable) Or, you should do the same for light/med builds.

This doesn't even take into account how wrong you are, heavy passives are not great. Light armour passives are a high amount of dmg and sustain, much more than any mag build can get in heavy, whilst not being far off in defense. The passives are hit heavily by the defile and bleed meta and scales terribly. So the only "super stronk" heavy builds are the ones in stam that can use sets for high wd, bleeds so pen is less needed and have generally better mobility.

Infact, heavy needs to be better cause the current meta is lul gg for many builds, and have more dmg implemented into its passives (wrath return) whilst changing some sets so they are less all around strong. 4/5 mag builds are meta light, NB is maybe heavy cause they have a high base dmg and escape, dk/warden/templar are all erring heavily towards light though some heavies exist, and sorc is unplayable without light, too much dmg lost.

Beffagorn

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

In light armor you get big damage. Its meant for magic builds for sustain and damage. Medium you get big damage. Its for stam builds for sustain and damage. Heavy armor...you get ALL that plus more HP, more sustain and damage (depending on set) this is NOT GOOD. Heavy should be for TANKS. To be able to take hits and try and survive. NOT ALSO to be able to burst people down better than light and medium builds. Do you guys agree or disagree? is heavy armor fine as is? what changes do you think it needs.

None. All 3 types have their strenght and weaknesses and are finally in a decent place.

Saying HA has more dmg is stupid and completely wrong. Wrath was reworked ages ago.

The best counter to HA are the DW bleeds, which are currently overperforming in pvp.

EDIT: Nerfing HA will also have repercussions in pve. For once, let's not ruin something that is actually balanced in all aspects of the game.

brandonv516

Disagree. It's fine. No changes.

AcadianPaladin

PvE only here and I don't really understand. My DK main tank wears 5 (heavy) /1/1 and is indeed hard to kill in PvE. Not that he cares but I'd estimate his dps at around 4k. Are you asking for a nerf to heavy armor? I fear any nerf to heavy armor would risk the unintended consequences of less PvE tanks. Given the shortage of PvE tanks I don't think discouraging them with a nerf is a good idea.

Perhaps if you detailed exactly what you mean - with attention to any possible effects on PvE since the game continues to cling to the futility of not balancing PvE and PvP separately.

Rygonix

Remember that if Murkmire is any indication, ZoS is anything but delicate when swinging the nerfbat.

I am happy with the way things are now. For the most part. Most things seem to be strong against some elements while weak against others. As it should be.

ezio45

the problem is you can still get damage close to light and medium while in heavy while light and medium offer almost no defense

even trying to build a non glass cannon build as a light or medium your still squishy af

DaveMoeDee

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

PvE only here and I don't really understand. My DK main tank wears 5 (heavy) /1/1 and is indeed hard to kill in PvE. Not that he cares but I'd estimate his dps at around 4k. Are you asking for a nerf to heavy armor? I fear any nerf to heavy armor would risk the unintended consequences of less PvE tanks. Given the shortage of PvE tanks I don't think discouraging them with a nerf is a good idea.

Perhaps if you detailed exactly what you mean - with attention to any possible effects on PvE since the game continues to cling to the futility of not balancing PvE and PvP separately.

Yeah, this thread makes no sense to me. My tank was recently doing a vet dungeon and got teleporting into the cave with the spiders and took like 5 minutes to kill a bunch of spiders. It was pathetic. Does OP want to change that to 20 minutes?

NinchiTV

guess im the minority here, just slap on heavy armor on any build and you'll be fine with sustain/dmg. Heavy or bust. ResidentSleeeeeeper.

Vapirko

ezio45 wrote: »

the problem is you can still get damage close to light and medium while in heavy while light and medium offer almost no defense

even trying to build a non glass cannon build as a light or medium your still squishy af

True, but thanks to strong shields and larger toolkits, light is still extremely viable. And no shields are not useless and still perfectly viable. If anything light and heavy are on par and medium is in some weird place in the middle for most classes except Stamblade.

Beffagorn

ezio45 wrote: »

the problem is you can still get damage close to light and medium while in heavy while light and medium offer almost no defense

even trying to build a non glass cannon build as a light or medium your still squishy af

Medium Armor can potentially mitigate more instant damage than Heavy due to cheaper Roll Dodge and faster Sprint through Atlethics.

Heavy Armor has higher passive mitigation. Sometimes better, sometimes it is worse.

To reach the same damage of a Medium Armor in Heavy you need to slot in both Ravager-7th Legion. Doing that means having 0 recovery in your entire gear, depending on what Monster Set you're using. I'd say that's a fair trade if you want to gear yourself that way.

You can't even get close to Light Armor levels of damage in Heavy.

There are ways of making tanky medium armor characters. Try using Impregnable + 7th Legion jewelry-Weps + Bloodspawn DW. it works incredibly well on my StamDk. In certain scenarios i've felt tankier than when i'm wearing full Heavy 2h due to being able to roll more and sprint faster.

Jhalin

Vapirko wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

the problem is you can still get damage close to light and medium while in heavy while light and medium offer almost no defense

even trying to build a non glass cannon build as a light or medium your still squishy af

True, but thanks to strong shields and larger toolkits, light is still extremely viable. And no shields are not useless and still perfectly viable. If anything light and heavy are on par and medium is in some weird place in the middle for most classes except Stamblade.

I have to question in what world a 10k-12k resists, 9k value light armor shield is a viable defense. It just plain isn’t. Meanwhile you go heavy, get the same or later shields with 20k+ resists begins them, and also get more resource sustain via the armor passives.

Medium’s effective use in PvP is due to the increased pool for straightforward defensive actions like break free and dodge. But they also depend on that pool for damage and healing.

Light armor is just in a terrible spot because of the heavy handed shield changes. Allowing them to be crit and pull from resists would have been enough on its own. In PvE, we never had any problems with healers feeling pointless until every mechanic added to the game starting being one-shots we can’t heal through anyway. Health caps, along with cat times, should never have even been thought of for primary defense of the squishiest builds in the game.

Vapirko

Jhalin wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

the problem is you can still get damage close to light and medium while in heavy while light and medium offer almost no defense

even trying to build a non glass cannon build as a light or medium your still squishy af

True, but thanks to strong shields and larger toolkits, light is still extremely viable. And no shields are not useless and still perfectly viable. If anything light and heavy are on par and medium is in some weird place in the middle for most classes except Stamblade.

I have to question in what world a 10k-12k resists, 9k value light armor shield is a viable defense. It just plain isn’t. Meanwhile you go heavy, get the same or later shields with 20k+ resists begins them, and also get more resource sustain via the armor passives.

Medium’s effective use in PvP is due to the increased pool for straightforward defensive actions like break free and dodge. But they also depend on that pool for damage and healing.

Light armor is just in a terrible spot because of the heavy handed shield changes. Allowing them to be crit and pull from resists would have been enough on its own. In PvE, we never had any problems with healers feeling pointless until every mechanic added to the game starting being one-shots we can’t heal through anyway. Health caps, along with cat times, should never have even been thought of for primary defense of the squishiest builds in the game.

From what I’ve seen/experienced shield users are still able to survive very well. They just can’t shield spam until the end of time. I haven’t tried heavy armor on a mag toon recently, so I’m not sure how the damage/sustain issue stacks up on anything other than a magplar and I haven’t played that for a while. I agree that shields were over nerfed a little, but I also think when purely talking about armor, heavy and light are on par. Light armor in of itself in terms of passives and available resistances is still the same. In the context of the this thread, shields are a separate (though related) matter and the recent changes proably need some fine tuning. All that I noticed was that in my magblde I needed to make more intelligent use of snares and ccs and the core defensive mechanics, instead of just being able to face tank someone through shields spam. Which frankly is a good thing.

Anti_Virus

No.

RinaldoGandolphi

Heavy armor is significantly better than light or medium and anyone saying otherwise is being disingenuous.

If any Magicka versions of 7th or fury existed in heavy every Magicka character would be wearing them.

Heavy gives:
Sustain when taking damage that is not effected by poisons or siphoner

Increase resource return from heavy attacks that is also not effected by siphoner or poisons

Increased resistance based on number of pieces worn

Increased health recovery that synergies with sets like Troll King which in pvp is not effected by battle spirit like other healing methods are 1.7-2k health recovery on your average troll king heavy wearing Stam build is a pretty big deal

Increased max health per piece worn

When you add in sets like Fury and 7th ,Heavy is better in every way then light or med in pvp. If Magicka versions of Fury and 7th existed in heavy, every mag user would be wearing heavy too. Nearly every stam build except stam blades are wearing heavy in pvp and have been forever, why would they wear anything else? Heavy is flat out better in every way with the exception of a few niche builds.

Heavy was actually balanced back when bracing was a thing, no wrath, and sets like 7th and Fury didn’t exist. It made you very tanky, but damage was reserved for med or light that was actually balanced.

The changes to heavy just diminished the role of tanks in pvp which is a shame because tabkinh and controlling was a viable option in the early days of pvp, but this is just more combat depth removed from the game as they continue down the road of dps and button mashing...

Ragnarock41

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

In light armor you get big damage. Its meant for magic builds for sustain and damage. Medium you get big damage. Its for stam builds for sustain and damage. Heavy armor...you get ALL that plus more HP, more sustain and damage (depending on set) this is NOT GOOD. Heavy should be for TANKS. To be able to take hits and try and survive. NOT ALSO to be able to burst people down better than light and medium builds. Do you guys agree or disagree? is heavy armor fine as is? what changes do you think it needs.

go away. boo.

ruengdet2515

Try change yourself first. Everything in game ok

Vildebill

Yeah more nerfs is exactly what we need...

MaleAmazon

I can hit resistance cap in werewolf form with chudan 5 medium 2 heavy. Or medium fort. brass. They are making good progress now with boost to medium armor passive and LA passive change.

So no. Stop reflexively blaming all your deaths on something being 'wrong with the game'.

Qbiken

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

In light armor you get big damage. Its meant for magic builds for sustain and damage. Medium you get big damage. Its for stam builds for sustain and damage. Heavy armor...you get ALL that plus more HP, more sustain and damage (depending on set) this is NOT GOOD. Heavy should be for TANKS. To be able to take hits and try and survive. NOT ALSO to be able to burst people down better than light and medium builds. Do you guys agree or disagree? is heavy armor fine as is? what changes do you think it needs.

Heavy armor itself is fine. Certain armor sets that comes in heavy armor is the issue. Fury and 7th Legion (I think Ravager is somewhat balanced due to it´s low proc-rate, and veiled heritance doesn´t give an absurd amount of weapon damage).

But when it comes to survivability and tankiness you can be as tanky in light/medium as with heavy and still dish out a good amount of damage. But for some reason it´s perfectly fine to be tanky and deal damage with light/medium armor, but not with heavy armor.....

MartiniDaniels

nothing in HA passives buffs any type of damage, last health based dps skill was ditched last patch, about what OP is talking?

MartiniDaniels

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Bumi Rockafella wrote: »

In light armor you get big damage. Its meant for magic builds for sustain and damage. Medium you get big damage. Its for stam builds for sustain and damage. Heavy armor...you get ALL that plus more HP, more sustain and damage (depending on set) this is NOT GOOD. Heavy should be for TANKS. To be able to take hits and try and survive. NOT ALSO to be able to burst people down better than light and medium builds. Do you guys agree or disagree? is heavy armor fine as is? what changes do you think it needs.

go away. boo.

++ OP should be shooed away with such nonsense nerf threads

So, boo, shoo!

Olupajmibanan

Am I missing something? How do heavy armor passives affect your dmg? Tell us OP please.

It's just the way you wanted. HA offers survivability and block-bypassing sustain which is crucial for tanks.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

If any Magicka versions of 7th or fury existed in heavy every Magicka character would be wearing them.

Anyone saying that if magicka version of Fury/Ravager... existed, every magicka character would be wearing them is completely wrong.
There is no way a Magsorc or a magNB wears heavy, even if heavy magicka equivalents of the mentioned sets existed.

Olupajmibanan

Don't know about others, but with the nerf to speed pots I dropped down even 7th legion in order to have enough Magicka/magregen from Shacklebreaker and allow frequent use of Bird of Prey.

Bashev

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Heavy armor is significantly better than light or medium and anyone saying otherwise is being disingenuous.

Heavy passives actually are not better than light armor and medium armor passives. The sets which comes in heavy are way better PvP damage sets than these in medium and light armor.

starkerealm

Chilly-McFreeze

Jhalin wrote: »

I have to question in what world a 10k-12k resists, 9k value light armor shield is a viable defense. It just plain isn’t. Meanwhile you go heavy, get the same or later shields with 20k+ resists begins them, and also get more resource sustain via the armor passives.

While I think the shield changes weren't completely though through when it comes to tanks I have to ask why in world you only have 10k resistance in light? Major resolve/ward are a thing.

Chilly-McFreeze

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Heavy armor is significantly better than light or medium and anyone saying otherwise is being disingenuous.

If any Magicka versions of 7th or fury existed in heavy every Magicka character would be wearing them.

Heavy gives:
Sustain when taking damage that is not effected by poisons or siphoner

Increase resource return from heavy attacks that is also not effected by siphoner or poisons

Increased resistance based on number of pieces worn

Increased health recovery that synergies with sets like Troll King which in pvp is not effected by battle spirit like other healing methods are 1.7-2k health recovery on your average troll king heavy wearing Stam build is a pretty big deal

Increased max health per piece worn

When you add in sets like Fury and 7th ,Heavy is better in every way then light or med in pvp. If Magicka versions of Fury and 7th existed in heavy, every mag user would be wearing heavy too. Nearly every stam build except stam blades are wearing heavy in pvp and have been forever, why would they wear anything else? Heavy is flat out better in every way with the exception of a few niche builds.

Heavy was actually balanced back when bracing was a thing, no wrath, and sets like 7th and Fury didn’t exist. It made you very tanky, but damage was reserved for med or light that was actually balanced.

The changes to heavy just diminished the role of tanks in pvp which is a shame because tabkinh and controlling was a viable option in the early days of pvp, but this is just more combat depth removed from the game as they continue down the road of dps and button mashing...

It's not like you don't get anything out of medium and light as well, but it's easier to point out what heavy has than to compare it to what the others grant.
You make it seem like sprint boosts, snare and dodge costs reduction, 15% weapon dmg, a *** load of penetration, crit, cost reduction and regen are worthless.

Not to mention that light armor has increased resistance based on numbers of pieces worn as well and that wrath is long gone. Just like a complete passive has been taken away and the resource returns have been gutted too.

Maybe it crossed your mind that heavy passives are nothing to write home about? No damage, only endurance. And a HA passive that boosts your survivability? How dare they!


Without sets like 7th and Fury, heavy wouldn't be seen as that great. Start to understand that and then you can rant about a armor skill line that no DD uses in pve and that crutches on overperforming sets in pvp. BTW to replace one meta with another by killing an entire armor line isn't balanced either.

starkerealm

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

I have to question in what world a 10k-12k resists, 9k value light armor shield is a viable defense. It just plain isn’t. Meanwhile you go heavy, get the same or later shields with 20k+ resists begins them, and also get more resource sustain via the armor passives.

While I think the shield changes weren't completely though through when it comes to tanks I have to ask why in world you only have 10k resistance in light? Major resolve/ward are a thing.

I'm going to guess, low level, or mixed gear. But... yeah, that sounds low.

Cavedog

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/444898/movement-speed-reduction-for-heavy-armor-to-help-balance-with-other-armor-weights#latest

When comparing the threads on this general topic, it's evident that it's the same detractors going thread to thread to poo on any suggestion that heavy armor needs some balancing......this is not a coincidence. They are promoting the use of their unbalanced gear.

Chilly-McFreeze

Cavedog wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/444898/movement-speed-reduction-for-heavy-armor-to-help-balance-with-other-armor-weights#latest

When comparing the threads on this general topic, it's evident that it's the same detractors going thread to thread to poo on any suggestion that heavy armor needs some balancing......this is not a coincidence. They are promoting the use of their unbalanced gear.

Everyone that disagrees is a biased. Got it.