Bring back the speed

Chilly-McFreeze · November 2018

BlackMadara wrote: »

Speed and snare immunity are powerful buffs. They should be locked to shorter durations. This seen in many other games as well, for a reason.

The popularity of these buffs in the past invalidated other means of control for other players. Example, I play mDK. I didn't see a point in running talons if a player i was fighting could have almost permanent root and snare immunity. Now, i am testing it out on my bar. Talons is costly, and you should have to pay to be immune to them.

Now this dynamic changes in the face of zergs. I agree that facing a large group alone or in small man shouldn't have any other disadvantages. There are indeed an overabundance of snares on random skills which should probably be rebalance for a healthy game. Despite that, a coordinated zergs will always find a way to run a permanent snare or rooter. That is the power of numbers.

Against any number of opponents, a short term snare immunity and speed buff is still very effective for repositioning. If you are caught out in the open against a group you can take down, you should probably die. If you have smart positioning, speed can still help on kiting and funneling players. You shouldn't be able to freely run around at the speed of sound, long term, with a long snare immunity open field.

Point is, large groups can still run around freely at the speed of sound, long term, with spammed snare immunity in open field. That is what bothers most.
But on the solo side, to reposition is a lot more cumbersome now. 1st GCD is for the maj Exp (4s), 2nd is for the snare removal (4s), leaves me with how many seconds to actually reposition and how many resources used to effectively kite for how long?
You say being perma immune is ***, I say being perma snared/ perma rooted is *** as well. To find balance in this not only means to find the mathematical sweet spot but also the place which leaves both sides with their cup of joy.

Qbiken · November 2018

I think a nerf in speed was needed, but ZOS overdid it.

BlackMadara · November 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

Speed and snare immunity are powerful buffs. They should be locked to shorter durations. This seen in many other games as well, for a reason.

The popularity of these buffs in the past invalidated other means of control for other players. Example, I play mDK. I didn't see a point in running talons if a player i was fighting could have almost permanent root and snare immunity. Now, i am testing it out on my bar. Talons is costly, and you should have to pay to be immune to them.

Now this dynamic changes in the face of zergs. I agree that facing a large group alone or in small man shouldn't have any other disadvantages. There are indeed an overabundance of snares on random skills which should probably be rebalance for a healthy game. Despite that, a coordinated zergs will always find a way to run a permanent snare or rooter. That is the power of numbers.

Against any number of opponents, a short term snare immunity and speed buff is still very effective for repositioning. If you are caught out in the open against a group you can take down, you should probably die. If you have smart positioning, speed can still help on kiting and funneling players. You shouldn't be able to freely run around at the speed of sound, long term, with a long snare immunity open field.

Point is, large groups can still run around freely at the speed of sound, long term, with spammed snare immunity in open field. That is what bothers most.
But on the solo side, to reposition is a lot more cumbersome now. 1st GCD is for the maj Exp (4s), 2nd is for the snare removal (4s), leaves me with how many seconds to actually reposition and how many resources used to effectively kite for how long?

The potency of rapids for large groups may be too much. But from another view point, Cyro is AvAvA. How would nerfing that skill affect the large group vs group dynamic and meta? You can just blindly nerf it without considering that aspect of the game. And even with rapids, the rapid spammer is one less person you have to worry about doing damage, can be considered a high priority target, AND smart positioning makes them useless anyway

Chilly-McFreeze · November 2018

BlackMadara wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

Speed and snare immunity are powerful buffs. They should be locked to shorter durations. This seen in many other games as well, for a reason.

The popularity of these buffs in the past invalidated other means of control for other players. Example, I play mDK. I didn't see a point in running talons if a player i was fighting could have almost permanent root and snare immunity. Now, i am testing it out on my bar. Talons is costly, and you should have to pay to be immune to them.

Now this dynamic changes in the face of zergs. I agree that facing a large group alone or in small man shouldn't have any other disadvantages. There are indeed an overabundance of snares on random skills which should probably be rebalance for a healthy game. Despite that, a coordinated zergs will always find a way to run a permanent snare or rooter. That is the power of numbers.

Against any number of opponents, a short term snare immunity and speed buff is still very effective for repositioning. If you are caught out in the open against a group you can take down, you should probably die. If you have smart positioning, speed can still help on kiting and funneling players. You shouldn't be able to freely run around at the speed of sound, long term, with a long snare immunity open field.

Point is, large groups can still run around freely at the speed of sound, long term, with spammed snare immunity in open field. That is what bothers most.
But on the solo side, to reposition is a lot more cumbersome now. 1st GCD is for the maj Exp (4s), 2nd is for the snare removal (4s), leaves me with how many seconds to actually reposition and how many resources used to effectively kite for how long?

The potency of rapids for large groups may be too much. But from another view point, Cyro is AvAvA. How would nerfing that skill affect the large group vs group dynamic and meta? You can just blindly nerf it without considering that aspect of the game. And even with rapids, the rapid spammer is one less person you have to worry about doing damage, can be considered a high priority target, AND smart positioning makes them useless anyway

From my point of view Cyro is AvAvA just as well anything below that numberswise.
Nerfing rapids e.g. by limiting the number of peoples it applies would lead to either more than 2 players becoming rapid-spammers (and therefor "one less person you have to worry about...) or in even playing field mobility-wise for more playstyles. But if I had a say, I'd like to see most of the mobility nerfs reverted (except swift) and the targeting system improved.
However, they blindly nerfed every viable option for non-zergers without considering that aspec of the game as well. Without considering the shift of power even more towards large groups. Without considering the impact this has on anything that doesn't has a rapids-bot at hand.

Trian94 · November 2018

So as I see it 95% of the people against uptime on speed are the zerglings who couldn't catch the solos/smallscalers and are mad about it because they expect everything to die to their superior numbers. OMEGALUL.

The 5% is the solo magicka players who never had and don't currently have access to major expedition uptime and were helpless against the snare/cc spam and I'm personally on their side and they have every right to want the same thing or complain about speed.

The swift nerf is something we all agree on but whoever argues against 100% uptime with the current swift and a reduced major expedition value is beyond clueless and 99% a zergling.

Toc de Malsvi · November 2018

Trian94 wrote: »

So as I see it 95% of the people against uptime on speed are the zerglings who couldn't catch the solos/smallscalers and are mad about it because they expect everything to die to their superior numbers. OMEGALUL.

The 5% is the solo magicka players who never had and don't currently have access to major expedition uptime and were helpless against the snare/cc spam and I'm personally on their side and they have every right to want the same thing or complain about speed.

The swift nerf is something we all agree on but whoever argues against 100% uptime with the current swift and a reduced major expedition value is beyond clueless and 99% a zergling.

In essence: Everyone who disagrees with me is bad, clueless, and I hate them.

Fine, Bows should rule Cyrodiil. I should be able to one shot Snipe players with impunity. If you disagree with me its cause you need to L2P.

Trian94 · November 2018

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

So as I see it 95% of the people against uptime on speed are the zerglings who couldn't catch the solos/smallscalers and are mad about it because they expect everything to die to their superior numbers. OMEGALUL.

The 5% is the solo magicka players who never had and don't currently have access to major expedition uptime and were helpless against the snare/cc spam and I'm personally on their side and they have every right to want the same thing or complain about speed.

The swift nerf is something we all agree on but whoever argues against 100% uptime with the current swift and a reduced major expedition value is beyond clueless and 99% a zergling.

In essence: Everyone who disagrees with me is bad, clueless, and I hate them.

Fine, Bows should rule Cyrodiil. I should be able to one shot Snipe players with impunity. If you disagree with me its cause you need to L2P.

Only I've provided info about how things are in cyrodiil atm and so have many other people in this thread. I did not propose something op in any way. If this is what you understand from what I said, then that tells me that you either haven't read the thread at all or you just replied this way because you didn't like the boldness of my words.

Toc de Malsvi · November 2018

Speed pots offered far more for mobility than skills/weapons. Defensive pots offer far less for defense than skills/weapons.

The combination of speed pots and defensive skills/weapons far outperformed every other setup. While still offering highly versatile combat applications.

With speed pots a player with S&B is as mobile or more mobile than a player with a Bow despite the Bow skill line having a passive supposedly designed to increase mobility. Either the player with the bow runs a speed pot and degates a passive entirely, or doesn't and is significantly less mobile. Speed pots were a trump card to be as or more mobile than all opponents. The same comparison holds true for speedpots versus classes designed with specific mobility skills.

The above paragraph is significant because of how significant mobility is to combat. Mobility is a primary determining factor in a wide range of fights and game types.

As far as Rapids goes, all they would need to do is cap it at say 6 players max. Then have recasts of the skill replace/cancel old buffs. So spamming rapids would in effect only rotate who has the buff and not spread the buff out over a larger group.

Toc de Malsvi · November 2018

Trian94 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

So as I see it 95% of the people against uptime on speed are the zerglings who couldn't catch the solos/smallscalers and are mad about it because they expect everything to die to their superior numbers. OMEGALUL.

The 5% is the solo magicka players who never had and don't currently have access to major expedition uptime and were helpless against the snare/cc spam and I'm personally on their side and they have every right to want the same thing or complain about speed.

The swift nerf is something we all agree on but whoever argues against 100% uptime with the current swift and a reduced major expedition value is beyond clueless and 99% a zergling.

In essence: Everyone who disagrees with me is bad, clueless, and I hate them.

Fine, Bows should rule Cyrodiil. I should be able to one shot Snipe players with impunity. If you disagree with me its cause you need to L2P.

Only I've provided info about how things are in cyrodiil atm and so have many other people in this thread. I did not propose something op in any way. If this is what you understand from what I said, then that tells me that you either haven't read the thread at all or you just replied this way because you didn't like the boldness of my words.

Many of your posts have appeared to be reasoned arguments although I disagree with them.

This one was not though which is why I responded in kind.

Trian94 · November 2018

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Speed pots offered far more for mobility than skills/weapons. Defensive pots offer far less for defense than skills/weapons.

The combination of speed pots and defensive skills/weapons far outperformed every other setup. While still offering highly versatile combat applications.

With speed pots a player with S&B is as mobile or more mobile than a player with a Bow despite the Bow skill line having a passive supposedly designed to increase mobility. Either the player with the bow runs a speed pot and degates a passive entirely, or doesn't and is significantly less mobile. Speed pots were a trump card to be as or more mobile than all opponents. The same comparison holds true for speedpots versus classes designed with specific mobility skills.

The above paragraph is significant because of how significant mobility is to combat. Mobility is a primary determining factor in a wide range of fights and game types.

As far as Rapids goes, all they would need to do is cap it at say 6 players max. Then have recasts of the skill replace/cancel old buffs. So spamming rapids would in effect only rotate who has the buff and not spread the buff out over a larger group.

Doesn't matter if speed pots outweigh bow at this point. Because this game is in such a state in which the op gear outweigh everything in every meta ever since One Tamriel. So if you nerf something to balance it out compared to certain stuff (i.e speed pots vs bow) then you make it so weak compared to other stuff in which case: the hard 100% uptime 60% snares you get. I understand that you don't like the idea of speedpots because people will break line of sight quicker in order to avoid the arrow rain from your 4 archer characters, but it is irrelevant to balance itself and so are the things that i would like to happen for the most part, but not this one. Last patch I had 40% increased movement speed and streak and people could still catch up to me with gap closers, horses etc so there's no way the wont be able to do it now. Like, imagine people who don't have streak. So in essence this encourages sweaty tryharders to zerg you. You could argue that speed potions are op on their own and I would agree with you but in this meta, they're really not.

Moonsorrow · November 2018

I used to rp a hot bosmer version of Prison Break at pvp, but then i took an arrow in both knees (Speed Nerfs)..

and now the 40+ Pact "small scalers" running after me and spamming snares just catch me too soon to get to the proper feeling.

Yeah, i was taking a resource solo, so of course they need to send 40+ there everytime. They also type in their zone chat to ask for help when they see 1 blue player, since those 40+ just was not enough so they get additional 20+ so its like they combine task forces of the Sheriffs Office and the FBI to hunt the prisoner down. Thats some pc/eu Sotha Sil roleplay right there.

--
(Copypasted my own reply to a rp topic here, since it fits the theme thus works to keep this topic up and running, hopefully)

pichuu · November 2018

Playing alone is much harder, and it is not pleasant...

_Ahala_ · November 2018

Snares are op and easy to maintain 100%... Speed was the only partial counterplay that existed for the snare spam and zerg meta we have now... Either speed needs a buff or snares need some counterplay... I’m not talking about passive expedition buffs like potions and swift, those were op and messed up melee builds targeting hard... I’m talking about active expedition buffs like falcons swiftness, double take, and quick cloak... if these skills actually had reasonable and cost effective uptimes (say 6-8s) that could actually be maintained with some effort then they would be legitimate counters to snare spam... as a side note, it would great if more mag classes had snare/root removal abilities or if snare reduction passives were not useless and actually countered snares additively instead of multiplicatively like the do now...

Kadoin · November 2018

Trian94 wrote: »

So as I see it 95% of the people against uptime on speed are the zerglings who couldn't catch the solos/smallscalers and are mad about it because they expect everything to die to their superior numbers. OMEGALUL.

The 5% is the solo magicka players who never had and don't currently have access to major expedition uptime and were helpless against the snare/cc spam and I'm personally on their side and they have every right to want the same thing or complain about speed.

The swift nerf is something we all agree on but whoever argues against 100% uptime with the current swift and a reduced major expedition value is beyond clueless and 99% a zergling.

That's funny, I remember speed cap builds being most used by "small mans" "small scalers," or whatever garbage they want to call themselves to pretend their not as bad as a zerg, to chase one person and run around in circles taking full advantage of the buggy targeting system. Usually doing this and dropping DBoS + executioner + stacking bleeds at the same time because with speed they couldn't do anything alone to anyone that was remotely tanky, that could block, or roll.

These same "small man" guys usually ran in groups of 6-12+ as well with a healbot or two. Get real. You know that most people using swift never actually played alone because they couldn't. You can keep pretending that you were a lone player fighting 20+, but if you were there is no way you would be doing that off a mag class or without SnB - both of which would lower your damage tremendously running swift in 1vX situations and make it near-impossible to "solo" any group or even a duo that were competent with at least one healer, or if they were tanky.

Now that your speed is gone and you and your buddies cannot just speed away taking no damage because of a buggy targeting system, build ult, and try again once your DBoS stack fails, there's a problem and speed needs to be buffed?

Wait, it's not gone, it's just that you would be required to further sacrifice and you want to keep your power like before in your "small man."

Yeah, no. Keep parading for it, I hope ZOS has already set themselves to filter your comments out by now because they have no substance except to continue to "showboat" and I'm surprised this hasn't been closed yet. I guess someone at ZOS wants to collect teardrops or something or maybe they are

like me at the things being stated in this thread.

Chilly-McFreeze · November 2018

Kadoin wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

So as I see it 95% of the people against uptime on speed are the zerglings who couldn't catch the solos/smallscalers and are mad about it because they expect everything to die to their superior numbers. OMEGALUL.

The 5% is the solo magicka players who never had and don't currently have access to major expedition uptime and were helpless against the snare/cc spam and I'm personally on their side and they have every right to want the same thing or complain about speed.

The swift nerf is something we all agree on but whoever argues against 100% uptime with the current swift and a reduced major expedition value is beyond clueless and 99% a zergling.

That's funny, I remember speed cap builds being most used by "small mans" "small scalers," or whatever garbage they want to call themselves to pretend their not as bad as a zerg, to chase one person and run around in circles taking full advantage of the buggy targeting system. Usually doing this and dropping DBoS + executioner + stacking bleeds at the same time because with speed they couldn't do anything alone to anyone that was remotely tanky, that could block, or roll.

These same "small man" guys usually ran in groups of 6-12+ as well with a healbot or two. Get real. You know that most people using swift never actually played alone because they couldn't. You can keep pretending that you were a lone player fighting 20+, but if you were there is no way you would be doing that off a mag class or without SnB - both of which would lower your damage tremendously running swift in 1vX situations and make it near-impossible to "solo" any group or even a duo that were competent with at least one healer, or if they were tanky.

Now that your speed is gone and you and your buddies cannot just speed away taking no damage because of a buggy targeting system, build ult, and try again once your DBoS stack fails, there's a problem and speed needs to be buffed? Wait, it's not gone, it's just that you would be required to further sacrifice and you want to keep your power like before in your "small man."

Yeah, no. Keep parading for it, I hope ZOS has already set themselves to filter your comments out by now because they have no substance except to continue to "showboat" and I'm surprised this hasn't been closed yet. I guess someone at ZOS wants to collect teardrops or something or maybe they are like me at the things being stated in this thread.

Did your salt cellar tipped over this morning?

Kadoin · November 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

So as I see it 95% of the people against uptime on speed are the zerglings who couldn't catch the solos/smallscalers and are mad about it because they expect everything to die to their superior numbers. OMEGALUL.

The 5% is the solo magicka players who never had and don't currently have access to major expedition uptime and were helpless against the snare/cc spam and I'm personally on their side and they have every right to want the same thing or complain about speed.

The swift nerf is something we all agree on but whoever argues against 100% uptime with the current swift and a reduced major expedition value is beyond clueless and 99% a zergling.

That's funny, I remember speed cap builds being most used by "small mans" "small scalers," or whatever garbage they want to call themselves to pretend their not as bad as a zerg, to chase one person and run around in circles taking full advantage of the buggy targeting system. Usually doing this and dropping DBoS + executioner + stacking bleeds at the same time because with speed they couldn't do anything alone to anyone that was remotely tanky, that could block, or roll.

These same "small man" guys usually ran in groups of 6-12+ as well with a healbot or two. Get real. You know that most people using swift never actually played alone because they couldn't. You can keep pretending that you were a lone player fighting 20+, but if you were there is no way you would be doing that off a mag class or without SnB - both of which would lower your damage tremendously running swift in 1vX situations and make it near-impossible to "solo" any group or even a duo that were competent with at least one healer, or if they were tanky.

Now that your speed is gone and you and your buddies cannot just speed away taking no damage because of a buggy targeting system, build ult, and try again once your DBoS stack fails, there's a problem and speed needs to be buffed? Wait, it's not gone, it's just that you would be required to further sacrifice and you want to keep your power like before in your "small man."

Yeah, no. Keep parading for it, I hope ZOS has already set themselves to filter your comments out by now because they have no substance except to continue to "showboat" and I'm surprised this hasn't been closed yet. I guess someone at ZOS wants to collect teardrops or something or maybe they are like me at the things being stated in this thread.

Did your salt cellar tipped over this morning?

No, that's in tact; My salt silo on the other hand...

danno8 · November 2018

Kadoin wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

So as I see it 95% of the people against uptime on speed are the zerglings who couldn't catch the solos/smallscalers and are mad about it because they expect everything to die to their superior numbers. OMEGALUL.

The 5% is the solo magicka players who never had and don't currently have access to major expedition uptime and were helpless against the snare/cc spam and I'm personally on their side and they have every right to want the same thing or complain about speed.

The swift nerf is something we all agree on but whoever argues against 100% uptime with the current swift and a reduced major expedition value is beyond clueless and 99% a zergling.

That's funny, I remember speed cap builds being most used by "small mans" "small scalers," or whatever garbage they want to call themselves to pretend their not as bad as a zerg, to chase one person and run around in circles taking full advantage of the buggy targeting system. Usually doing this and dropping DBoS + executioner + stacking bleeds at the same time because with speed they couldn't do anything alone to anyone that was remotely tanky, that could block, or roll.

These same "small man" guys usually ran in groups of 6-12+ as well with a healbot or two. Get real. You know that most people using swift never actually played alone because they couldn't. You can keep pretending that you were a lone player fighting 20+, but if you were there is no way you would be doing that off a mag class or without SnB - both of which would lower your damage tremendously running swift in 1vX situations and make it near-impossible to "solo" any group or even a duo that were competent with at least one healer, or if they were tanky.

Now that your speed is gone and you and your buddies cannot just speed away taking no damage because of a buggy targeting system, build ult, and try again once your DBoS stack fails, there's a problem and speed needs to be buffed? Wait, it's not gone, it's just that you would be required to further sacrifice and you want to keep your power like before in your "small man."

Yeah, no. Keep parading for it, I hope ZOS has already set themselves to filter your comments out by now because they have no substance except to continue to "showboat" and I'm surprised this hasn't been closed yet. I guess someone at ZOS wants to collect teardrops or something or maybe they are like me at the things being stated in this thread.

It's a well known fact that being 4v1'd at a resource by a pack of Stam-whatevers is good, solid small-scale.

Being 16v4'd by the larger group that shows up 5 minutes later is lame zerging.

Trian94 · November 2018

Kadoin wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

So as I see it 95% of the people against uptime on speed are the zerglings who couldn't catch the solos/smallscalers and are mad about it because they expect everything to die to their superior numbers. OMEGALUL.

The 5% is the solo magicka players who never had and don't currently have access to major expedition uptime and were helpless against the snare/cc spam and I'm personally on their side and they have every right to want the same thing or complain about speed.

The swift nerf is something we all agree on but whoever argues against 100% uptime with the current swift and a reduced major expedition value is beyond clueless and 99% a zergling.

That's funny, I remember speed cap builds being most used by "small mans" "small scalers," or whatever garbage they want to call themselves to pretend their not as bad as a zerg, to chase one person and run around in circles taking full advantage of the buggy targeting system. Usually doing this and dropping DBoS + executioner + stacking bleeds at the same time because with speed they couldn't do anything alone to anyone that was remotely tanky, that could block, or roll.

These same "small man" guys usually ran in groups of 6-12+ as well with a healbot or two. Get real. You know that most people using swift never actually played alone because they couldn't. You can keep pretending that you were a lone player fighting 20+, but if you were there is no way you would be doing that off a mag class or without SnB - both of which would lower your damage tremendously running swift in 1vX situations and make it near-impossible to "solo" any group or even a duo that were competent with at least one healer, or if they were tanky.

Now that your speed is gone and you and your buddies cannot just speed away taking no damage because of a buggy targeting system, build ult, and try again once your DBoS stack fails, there's a problem and speed needs to be buffed? Wait, it's not gone, it's just that you would be required to further sacrifice and you want to keep your power like before in your "small man."

Yeah, no. Keep parading for it, I hope ZOS has already set themselves to filter your comments out by now because they have no substance except to continue to "showboat" and I'm surprised this hasn't been closed yet. I guess someone at ZOS wants to collect teardrops or something or maybe they are like me at the things being stated in this thread.

I've never used swift and yeah I am a lone player for the most part and the groups i play with dont exceed 4 players and I 1vX daily. I'm not pretending to fight 20 people because I usually do and they zerg me down and I never thought i should win vs that. You come to sotha EU and i'll give you some live footage of me being a solo player + some salt-free chips.

EDIT: Actually don't come cause you'll get 1vXed and become more salty.

Stigant · November 2018

Snare has to be taken off of most of the skills as a secondary effect, it is aggravating as hell as well as mind numbing to have dedicated one button masher builds in PvP ... there are just too many snare + DoT/other debuff skills out there, making one button wonder builds a thing. If snares have to be a thing, include them in major/minor system as well as expedition is.
I 've met BG groups build around wall of elements spam, acid spray+caltrops spam, 2 out of 4 players rocking skoria on top of that.
Yes extreme speed was too much but this is ridiculously overtuned change... I mean we are Looking for balance right? Yet we 're getting changes leading us from one extreme to another.

del9 · November 2018

The game has become claustrophoic.

CompM4s · November 2018

The only issue that speed had was the introduction of swift. Speed pot durations been there for years with no problem.

Maura_Neysa · November 2018

Yes I agree. The only problem with speed is that ZoS

-up with jewelry traits
- Swift - OP as hell. This should be speed for classes that don't have access to it like Templar, not something for already fast classes to stack.
- Bloodthirsty - Way to strong. Its only mitigated by the fact that its only up 25% of the time.
- Infused - Also too strong. This is rediculus with something like potion cooldown enchant. It should be something like 20%.
- Protective - Just as useless as Nirnhoned Armor.
- Triune - The only one that sort of balanced. Its Prismatics for your jewelry. That right there tells you a lot because tanks are not running this.
- Harmony - OP as Hell. Only mitigated by the fact that you have to have multiple good players to make use of it. 35% x3 bonus damage to Gravity Crush? How is that balanced?

Kadoin · November 2018

Trian94 wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

So as I see it 95% of the people against uptime on speed are the zerglings who couldn't catch the solos/smallscalers and are mad about it because they expect everything to die to their superior numbers. OMEGALUL.

The 5% is the solo magicka players who never had and don't currently have access to major expedition uptime and were helpless against the snare/cc spam and I'm personally on their side and they have every right to want the same thing or complain about speed.

The swift nerf is something we all agree on but whoever argues against 100% uptime with the current swift and a reduced major expedition value is beyond clueless and 99% a zergling.

That's funny, I remember speed cap builds being most used by "small mans" "small scalers," or whatever garbage they want to call themselves to pretend their not as bad as a zerg, to chase one person and run around in circles taking full advantage of the buggy targeting system. Usually doing this and dropping DBoS + executioner + stacking bleeds at the same time because with speed they couldn't do anything alone to anyone that was remotely tanky, that could block, or roll.

These same "small man" guys usually ran in groups of 6-12+ as well with a healbot or two. Get real. You know that most people using swift never actually played alone because they couldn't. You can keep pretending that you were a lone player fighting 20+, but if you were there is no way you would be doing that off a mag class or without SnB - both of which would lower your damage tremendously running swift in 1vX situations and make it near-impossible to "solo" any group or even a duo that were competent with at least one healer, or if they were tanky.

Now that your speed is gone and you and your buddies cannot just speed away taking no damage because of a buggy targeting system, build ult, and try again once your DBoS stack fails, there's a problem and speed needs to be buffed? Wait, it's not gone, it's just that you would be required to further sacrifice and you want to keep your power like before in your "small man."

Yeah, no. Keep parading for it, I hope ZOS has already set themselves to filter your comments out by now because they have no substance except to continue to "showboat" and I'm surprised this hasn't been closed yet. I guess someone at ZOS wants to collect teardrops or something or maybe they are like me at the things being stated in this thread.

I've never used swift and yeah I am a lone player for the most part and the groups i play with dont exceed 4 players and I 1vX daily. I'm not pretending to fight 20 people because I usually do and they zerg me down and I never thought i should win vs that. You come to sotha EU and i'll give you some live footage of me being a solo player + some salt-free chips.

EDIT: Actually don't come cause you'll get 1vXed and become more salty.

Contradiction with your own earlier statements?

CoachPower · November 2018

Relax, you're doing fine.

Vapirko · November 2018

Shuffle still needs four seconds of snare immunity and maybe another cost reduction. FM is okay I think, because it’s so cheap but I personally wouldn’t mind seeing it return to 8 seconds or at least 6, ZOS was extremely lazy in this round of nerfs what with nerfing everything to the same time limits. PvP is very sluggish now. There are a LOT of AOE snares and we are now in a AOE snare/damage meta, mostly with permafrost and spin to win. And the lack of speed and less immunity to snares is amplifying the already over performing spin to win.

IZZEFlameLash · November 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

mojomood wrote: »

1. 100% Major Expedition uptime for stam characters is imbalanced. It means they dont need to run gap closers and allows heavy to be too strong. Medium to heavy speed difference is much larger now because of the sprint passives. Heavy is more of a choice to be slow but tanky.
2. Attacking a Ranged magicka player is harder because the time to cover 40 meters is longer. After that gap is closed, stam players have a massive advantage now that shields take crits.

I ran heavy last patch, but I'm not now because of this speed change. Medium is much harder without passive dodge but doable. Only my magblade is in light and its debatable how well that works right now because of the swift nerf. But the root issue there has more to do with magblade being an antique from a different age of ESO when they were building a stealthy high damage melee range class and all class skills were magicka. They achieved their goals via stamina morphs and now with stamblade have forgot about furthering the magblade PvP identity. It's either a knockoff stamblade, a knockoff sorc, or a bomber.

It is still unfair that zergs can easily run over smaller groupa by having someone spam rapids.

Do you not play as a small group against larger groups to have fun and challenge? If not, then, I am afraid you are playing a wrong game.

The big groups already have strength in numbers to do damage, heal or resurrect more easily. No reason to give them the edge in mobility over smaller groups as well. If that's your definition of a balanced game, well, then I am afraid you got this wrong.

Koensol wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

mojomood wrote: »

1. 100% Major Expedition uptime for stam characters is imbalanced. It means they dont need to run gap closers and allows heavy to be too strong. Medium to heavy speed difference is much larger now because of the sprint passives. Heavy is more of a choice to be slow but tanky.
2. Attacking a Ranged magicka player is harder because the time to cover 40 meters is longer. After that gap is closed, stam players have a massive advantage now that shields take crits.

I ran heavy last patch, but I'm not now because of this speed change. Medium is much harder without passive dodge but doable. Only my magblade is in light and its debatable how well that works right now because of the swift nerf. But the root issue there has more to do with magblade being an antique from a different age of ESO when they were building a stealthy high damage melee range class and all class skills were magicka. They achieved their goals via stamina morphs and now with stamblade have forgot about furthering the magblade PvP identity. It's either a knockoff stamblade, a knockoff sorc, or a bomber.

It is still unfair that zergs can easily run over smaller groupa by having someone spam rapids.

Do you not play as a small group against larger groups to have fun and challenge? If not, then, I am afraid you are playing a wrong game.

How can one enjoy a 'challenge' against a big group when the one counter they had (being outmaneuvered) is taken away, yet THEY get to keep their speed and mobility to completely swarm you and wreck you with snares and roots. The current game is a *** drag! It's not fun at all anymore. I hope ZOS is happy now that complete and utter zergling trash players have become empowered enough to compete against people who have evolved past spamming light attacks and mutagen.

Then why not pick fights better and accept the fact that you got zerged after taking a resource and farmed few players who cannot handle themselves? It's annoying to have 20 people come out, yes. But what did you expect? They know what types of players take resources in the back keeps. Hence the zerg response. It is unreasonable for you to seek for something special for you to win obviously outnumbered circumstance. However, it is reasonable to seek fun out of trying to overcome these odds in unfavorable condition. Sure, it is hard. But it is supposed to be hard when going up against players, not bots. When I take a resource of other faction's back keep. I expect to be zerged, and so does players I play with (or used to). We get the kick out of trying to really have a good fight against the overwhelming numbers and survive as long as we can.

Small groups constantly winning engagement against the large groups can be both a sign of skillful gameplay and imbalanced game. Besides, if larger group uses whatever small scalers are using, then you are going back to being disadvantaged. It is nigh impossible to buff small to solo without buffing the large groups except without hurting the balance significantly like giving group of 6 an emp stat bonus or something while more than 6 don't get any.

Imagine if Swift unnerfed was caught on with larger groups. I think then there will be complaints about how OP Swift is because larger groups run it to run down everything in their path, rendering small scale impossible or so.

The_Camper · November 2018

just uninstall this *** game and move to a better one.

raasdal · November 2018

While i have been addicted to Speed Potions for the last several years (seriously - i can't remember when i last used any potion that did not give speed), it seems fair to nerf overall.

Speed Potions should have same duration as other Major effects. Like Vitality etc. So thats done now. Good.

Swift is also in a good spot now. Totally overperformed.

Only problem to me right now, is the duration of skills. All Major Expedition skills should last 10 seconds (+/- depending on other benefits of skill). 4 Seconds duration is laughable.

BUT. I guess it makes sense that Speed buff is aligned and balanced with Speed debuffs. ZOS clearly wants us to be moving at the regular speed. They do not want someone to be able to easily keep 100% uptime on Major Expedition, without making huge sacrifices. And i guess that is fine too. We will have to adapt.

Crixus8000 · November 2018

I am taking a break from the game. I played for fun but this patch has completely taken the fun out of the game for me. I loved my class, even with it's flaws but since stamsorcs are supposed to be fast and their gameplay is based on that yet in 99% of fights I can't even move I don't see the point in playing. Getting into a fight and being rooted to a stop, only able to land 1-2 attacks between having to spam forward and being unable to los is terrible.

Chilly-McFreeze · November 2018

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I am taking a break from the game. I played for fun but this patch has completely taken the fun out of the game for me. I loved my class, even with it's flaws but since stamsorcs are supposed to be fast and their gameplay is based on that yet in 99% of fights I can't even move I don't see the point in playing. Getting into a fight and being rooted to a stop, only able to land 1-2 attacks between having to spam forward and being unable to los is terrible.

Couldn't agree more. I find myself doing more pve than pvp nowadays. This patch sucked the fun out of it for me too. Anyone knows when the next pts cycle will begin? January?