Bring back the speed

Crixus8000

Koensol wrote: »

/signed. The biggest problem by far in this aspect though, is that snares are on literally everything and are completely without cooldown. If I would have my way, snares whould be a single purpose skill, not being tied to frakking spammables and ranged dots, and especially not to skill trees (looking at you, warmth passive). Reducing the duration is kind of pointless when you can just reapply them at will. This is terrible, terrible design and I have hated spammable snares in every other mmo I have played.

Well said. I hate the design how snares work. Snares are basically free for the reasons you gave yet I have to spam a skill every 4 seconds to just be able to play, wasting time on that makes combat very boring.

Matshing

Stam Nightblade just got stronger now imo you cant run away from zergs anymore or kite them in a tower with other stam classes but with a stam nightblade you just need cloak lmao

Trian94

Kadoin wrote: »

Sorry, I don't miss the speed meta so I can honestly say I disagree. Considering even on live right now with only 30% speed increase the target system is buggy when you move a certain way I'm not discussing on the forums, I don't think anyone should have it 100% up without REAL sacrifice.

Also, you can call yourself whatever you want and try to act like those pots weren't overpowered before Summerset, but if that is so, why does it make such a large difference in your gameplay? Why do you need to crutch on it if its not overpowered? If it's the sole difference between you winning or dying 1vX what does that really say about it?

The forums always are entertaining...Watch someone call me a noob or a zergling, can't wait to

It says that snares have gotten really strong and now their counterpart has been nerfed down so they're stronger

Trian94

HeroOfNone said that we have to be more skilled and tactical in 1vX and it shouldn't be easy. L O effing L. Who in the world said it was easy. I've been 1vXing in Sotha Sil ever since before Morrowind and I want to ask you 1 question. Have you seen the changes to the game ever since morrowind? The best patch was Clockwork City (if i'm not mistaken) cause it encouraged some non proc play but every other patch ever since One Tamriel has been proc heavy and less about skill. That sent 1vX down in the gutters. In the current patch you have dual wield users proccing their enchants every 2 seconds (or 1 if using Torug's Pact) which is arguably worse than the viper sting meta and, of course, the main skill that applies these is giving you a FIFTY PERCENT SNARE. When they implement stuff that require 0 effort and have high dps output we can't talk about skill. Speed is needed as a counterplay because right now there is none. Penetration is stronger bleeds are stronger so if a solo player can't reach line of sight easily to recover he's done, spent, down and out. Imagine that a singe rending slash has a 10k dps output on the span of it's duration on a dummy (which it does) and then u attack that player with a single target spammable ability, then place 3-4 more players attacking that same person regardless of class (doesnt have to be the same bleed set up I mentioned, just random players with half decent setups even). What I'm actually talking about here isn't like: "Aw you nerfed speed and my class blablabla". I'm saying that they've taken our way to fight back unless we do the same cheesy builds that you see all over the forums now. I've put a similar build together with 25% more speed ALL THE TIME but it's pure cheese and whoever fights it is going to feel it be it magicka or stamina but this isn't a good thing for pvp.

HeroOfNone

Trian94 wrote: »

HeroOfNone said that we have to be more skilled and tactical in 1vX and it shouldn't be easy. L O effing L. Who in the world said it was easy. I've been 1vXing in Sotha Sil ever since before Morrowind and I want to ask you 1 question. Have you seen the changes to the game ever since morrowind? The best patch was Clockwork City (if i'm not mistaken) cause it encouraged some non proc play but every other patch ever since One Tamriel has been proc heavy and less about skill. That sent 1vX down in the gutters. In the current patch you have dual wield users proccing their enchants every 2 seconds (or 1 if using Torug's Pact) which is arguably worse than the viper sting meta and, of course, the main skill that applies these is giving you a FIFTY PERCENT SNARE. When they implement stuff that require 0 effort and have high dps output we can't talk about skill. Speed is needed as a counterplay because right now there is none. Penetration is stronger bleeds are stronger so if a solo player can't reach line of sight easily to recover he's done, spent, down and out. Imagine that a singe rending slash has a 10k dps output on the span of it's duration on a dummy (which it does) and then u attack that player with a single target spammable ability, then place 3-4 more players attacking that same person regardless of class (doesnt have to be the same bleed set up I mentioned, just random players with half decent setups even). What I'm actually talking about here isn't like: "Aw you nerfed speed and my class blablabla". I'm saying that they've taken our way to fight back unless we do the same cheesy builds that you see all over the forums now. I've put a similar build together with 25% more speed ALL THE TIME but it's pure cheese and whoever fights it is going to feel it be it magicka or stamina but this isn't a good thing for pvp.

Sorry you took the one comment:

"I'm not totally against 1vX players, but it shouldn't be easy either."

As meaning all 1vXers had it easy.

They haven't since ZOS took away a lot of the 1 shot builds that made Cyrodiil more like a counterstrike game. This comment in context was meant more that while I like seeing certain skills and sets lowered so we don't see over powered builds I'm not against seeing some 1vX builds- as long as its not easy.

Prior to last patch most players were running similar tactics and builds based around quick escapes to make up for reckless moves, bad plays, etc. That few nonspeed running characters were using. Like yodased has made a point of, a 100% speed uptime is more of a passive than an activatable skill that could be properly countered.

Now that margin is tighter and more of a challenge. It will not something to simply try and reset, you'll have to see players really commit to it and know what their doing Otherwise their mistakes will cost just as much as the people they are trying to fight, who are at an advantage numbers wise.

Now the issues with builds being too strong, as I agreed with torag's pact being over powered this patch, is an issue to address with the builds, not the speed. Even with the higher speed for example you'd still have infused torag's over performing given the changes with back bar procs. That stuff should be balanced and addressed. But keep in mind any tweaks you make there to weaken or strengthen a solo could do the same for a group.

Trian94

Thanks for clarifying that, mate.

Rianai

yodased wrote: »

This is the overarching idea I have been so unsuccessfully trying to convey, 100% up time is not a buff by definition, it is just part of the character. Sure you may have to drink a potion every 35 seconds by hitting q, but its not the same thing as any other buff in the game, and if this buff is so important that people literally can not play the game in the way that they were used to playing it. Objectively that had to be addressed for the overall health of the game.

Since when it is a general rule that buffs can't have 100% uptime? And what about all those other buffs that can (and should) be kept up 100% of the time with little investment? Major Sorcery, Brutality, Ward, Resolve, Evasion, Endurance, Intellect, Prophesy and many many more ...

yodased wrote: »

Did anyone say anything about it being easy? No.

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Now if you want to 1vX you'll have to be a bit more skilled and tactical. The sets and pots you use won't do it for you. I like this sort of change where a majority can't simple 1vX players based on a few tactics. I'm not totally against 1vX players, but it shouldn't be easy either.

Burtan

The people in here with the whole '1vX is bad' 'You should'nt expect to win against 10 people' comments are 100% the very players who choose to gang up on smaller groups or solos for easy kills. They must be so happy that now it takes even less effort to take home that glorious 10v1 victory bag.

Burtan

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

HeroOfNone said that we have to be more skilled and tactical in 1vX and it shouldn't be easy. L O effing L. Who in the world said it was easy. I've been 1vXing in Sotha Sil ever since before Morrowind and I want to ask you 1 question. Have you seen the changes to the game ever since morrowind? The best patch was Clockwork City (if i'm not mistaken) cause it encouraged some non proc play but every other patch ever since One Tamriel has been proc heavy and less about skill. That sent 1vX down in the gutters. In the current patch you have dual wield users proccing their enchants every 2 seconds (or 1 if using Torug's Pact) which is arguably worse than the viper sting meta and, of course, the main skill that applies these is giving you a FIFTY PERCENT SNARE. When they implement stuff that require 0 effort and have high dps output we can't talk about skill. Speed is needed as a counterplay because right now there is none. Penetration is stronger bleeds are stronger so if a solo player can't reach line of sight easily to recover he's done, spent, down and out. Imagine that a singe rending slash has a 10k dps output on the span of it's duration on a dummy (which it does) and then u attack that player with a single target spammable ability, then place 3-4 more players attacking that same person regardless of class (doesnt have to be the same bleed set up I mentioned, just random players with half decent setups even). What I'm actually talking about here isn't like: "Aw you nerfed speed and my class blablabla". I'm saying that they've taken our way to fight back unless we do the same cheesy builds that you see all over the forums now. I've put a similar build together with 25% more speed ALL THE TIME but it's pure cheese and whoever fights it is going to feel it be it magicka or stamina but this isn't a good thing for pvp.

Sorry you took the one comment:

"I'm not totally against 1vX players, but it shouldn't be easy either."

As meaning all 1vXers had it easy.

They haven't since ZOS took away a lot of the 1 shot builds that made Cyrodiil more like a counterstrike game. This comment in context was meant more that while I like seeing certain skills and sets lowered so we don't see over powered builds I'm not against seeing some 1vX builds- as long as its not easy.

Prior to last patch most players were running similar tactics and builds based around quick escapes to make up for reckless moves, bad plays, etc. That few nonspeed running characters were using. Like yodased has made a point of, a 100% speed uptime is more of a passive than an activatable skill that could be properly countered.

Now that margin is tighter and more of a challenge. It will not something to simply try and reset, you'll have to see players really commit to it and know what their doing Otherwise their mistakes will cost just as much as the people they are trying to fight, who are at an advantage numbers wise.

Now the issues with builds being too strong, as I agreed with torag's pact being over powered this patch, is an issue to address with the builds, not the speed. Even with the higher speed for example you'd still have infused torag's over performing given the changes with back bar procs. That stuff should be balanced and addressed. But keep in mind any tweaks you make there to weaken or strengthen a solo could do the same for a group.

Speed IS countered constantly. by CC, root and snare spam.

DivineFirstYOLO

I fully agree with Trian. This thread may be about speed pots and their uptime, but if you are able to read between the lines then you will realise the problem is that people are not finding even fights on certain campaigns.

Just take Sotha Sil EU as an example - every day, from the morning until prime time EP is zerging over the map. Log in at 08:00 in the morning - get zerged by 15-20 people. Log in at 14:00 afternoon - get zerged by 30-40 people.

In the evening all 3 alliances are stacking up, but that doesn't matter right now, what matters is that people cannot play the rest of the day because they get chased by 15+ pieces of ***, sniping you, rooting you, using the *** new bow and draining shot on you, proccing 4 enchants at the same time while the rest of the zerg is light attacking and hunting you on their horses. AND YOUR ADVICE IS TO SLOT RAPIDS TO ESCAPE?

Can you now see that speed nerfs were bad? (talking about pots, nerfing swift was good).

..and don't come with "make a group and fight them 15v15" ***. This *** is going on for probably more than 2 years now. People log in, check the map, they see everything is red and either log off or join battlegrounds. Most of the time there are no other DC on the damn Campaign, because they know it won't change anything.

You asked why people feel entitled to win against 5-6 players or even 20-30? People in online games are trying to be competitive and I find it very unfair when 5-6 people that have no clue how to fight are winning against one of the best Stam Sorc players in ESO.

The day that ZOS finds a solution to make people spread is the day when we won't need speed pots any more...

Flame_of_Hades

i love this thread. its great. i knew the swift nerfs were coming, so i build my speedBlade (scummy, ik) with jailbreakers. i lost a total of 12% speed, so, what am i going to do? dodgeroll with a bow. wow, im back at speed cap!

does this mean that my damage is lower than most stam players? yes. but it SHOULD be, because i can move that fast.

I built for speed, if you want to move around stupid fast, you can do it as well. just drop x damage set for jail breakers, or drop your mundus for the steed. gone are the days of max damage max speed DB teams. have fun.

--- sincerely, a very annoyed magDk that constantly had people run from him 1v1.

Burtan

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

i love this thread. its great. i knew the swift nerfs were coming, so i build my speedBlade (scummy, ik) with jailbreakers. i lost a total of 12% speed, so, what am i going to do? dodgeroll with a bow. wow, im back at speed cap!

does this mean that my damage is lower than most stam players? yes. but it SHOULD be, because i can move that fast.

I built for speed, if you want to move around stupid fast, you can do it as well. just drop x damage set for jail breakers, or drop your mundus for the steed. gone are the days of max damage max speed DB teams. have fun.

--- sincerely, a very annoyed magDk that constantly had people run from him 1v1.

Major expedition isn't really that fast, its just fast enough to compete with the 15 people chasing you with rapids being spammed. I think it only became a problem when people easily hit the speedcap with swift and didn't even need to sprint.

Defilted

I said this before the patch. Add a speed/magika/immovable pot and we are all even.

This gives everyone access to major expedition with either health or main stat.

There was never a need to reduce major E pots as they were not issue. Swift was the problem. They could have removed swift for all I care or cap speed at 40% as mentioned above.

With a cap people will have a choice on how they want to obtain it if they want to at all.

Bosov

Burtan wrote: »

Flame_of_Hades wrote: »

i love this thread. its great. i knew the swift nerfs were coming, so i build my speedBlade (scummy, ik) with jailbreakers. i lost a total of 12% speed, so, what am i going to do? dodgeroll with a bow. wow, im back at speed cap!

does this mean that my damage is lower than most stam players? yes. but it SHOULD be, because i can move that fast.

I built for speed, if you want to move around stupid fast, you can do it as well. just drop x damage set for jail breakers, or drop your mundus for the steed. gone are the days of max damage max speed DB teams. have fun.

--- sincerely, a very annoyed magDk that constantly had people run from him 1v1.

Major expedition isn't really that fast, its just fast enough to compete with the 15 people chasing you with rapids being spammed. I think it only became a problem when people easily hit the speedcap with swift and didn't even need to sprint.

Major expedition didnt compete against a group of zergers on mounts with rapids slotted (because when you zerg you can slot that skill... since zerging can be done with *** builds). When i was running for my life and had AD's most famous zerger (Pc Eu Vivec.. people know his name) coming after me i wasnt getting away with speedpots while sprinting as an orc.

He would catch me eventually... the only thing i could hope for was that his pugs didnt follow him with too many or were spread out a bit.

Now i die the moment they spot me because i cant get away. Get hit by a snipe, CCed and snare/root spammed and die.

Alpheu5

yodased wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Far too long has alchemy been the bane of pvp.

Sure, you can say that the system allows for small scale and tree circiling, but thats not the overarching goal of openworld pvp.

The biggest problem is people got used to being on their zoom characters and loved the advantage it gave them over magicka classes.

Having major expedition, during combat, at 90-100% uptime is unbalanced and skewed.

Add into that several seconds of cc immunity with and a large boost to health regen and now its possible to not only be almost twice as fast, but also umable to be slowed down.

Remove your feelings and attachment to alchemy and honestly ask yourself, how is this "balanced".

Just because you can choose to not join a group and play by yourself does not mean you deserve a crutch to help you.

If you really are that talented to be able to fight solo, then you will adapt your strategy. If you find yourself unable to fight 5 or 6 people and win without speed pots, then it was speed pots making you able to do this, not skill.

The game is marketed towards, and paid for, by casual players. You know, the ones that all 1vX players dream about. If removing 100% uptime from major expedition makes it harder for you or any one person to kill a group of these money spenders, bet your ass they will do whatever they can to stop you from being able to do that.

Except its not 5 or 6 people. Its 20 or 30 people all with procs and infused enchants to instantly melt you. Those 20 or 30 dont need further advantagea over smaller numbers.

In what world or game is it ever a possibility to enter into a situation against 10 or 20 people alone, and EXPECT to win.

When you see a massive group of level 10-30 players gathered at Cropsford during a free-to-play weekend

...Or so I've been told.

Gilvoth

im amazed at this thread, people going on as if zenimax is actually willing to consider bringing it back lol.
i love speed and its all im about in everything i do, and as i have said now for a few years ... "right now feels like im allways crawling in Mud in both sneak and running. please bring back high speeds. i need to be able to move Fast."

but from what we have seen and them just giving speed Another nerf? haha, not gona happen guys, even though i am willing to pay $25 a month sub instead of $16 for more sneak and more speed in eso character movement, they simply arent going to change thier belief that some how "speed" is bad for PvP, so, this thread is simply a waste.

Bosov

yodased wrote: »

Edit:

Can anyone legitimately explain to me the logic of feeling entitled to win or escape if 20 people see you and charge at you? How is this even an acceptable answer to a problem?

Because you are alone you should be ignored? If they ignore you, you will pick them off from the back of the line and this is a conditioned response to solo players behavior.

I am not in large groups so I can't determine their mindset, but I doubt its a hivemind that simply has to kill everything in sight, if you are a known solo player that has the ability to "1vX" isn't it their responsibility to take you out of the equation as fast as possible?

Why is it always coming back to "i got zerged bro this is garbage"? It makes no sense, if 20 people see you, you made a mistake in being seen and are going to be killed.

Unless I am just ignorant of the situation, which is entirely possible, I can't wrap my head around it.

Do you even play Cyrodill? It is the hivemind of wanting to kill everything in sight. You see a big zerg (20+) ditch all their siege to chase a single person. You will see 75% of the placed siege break because people left it to kill one guy and get a few points of AP.

If im in a keep defending it or attacking it ofcourse im going to be attacked and zerged. That is fine because the big zergs are there to siege, kill NPCS and take keeps. When im at Faragyl just looking for some fun fights, not sieging, not killing the same player over and over and basically not doing anything which affects the campaign scoring the "big group players" care so much about i dont think it is needed to chase me around with a massive group just to get a few points of AP.

I have been chased from Faragyl to Cropsford, to a bridge which wasnt Alessia bridge, to the AD homekeeps and back to Faragyll... (the shield ult was still cheap those days) and during that AD lost emp and a scroll.

There is no reason to chase that one person besides trying to ruin the game for that solo player. Literally no reason to do so yet it is a "normal" thing to do.

Speed pots were one of the ways to deal with that zerg mentality and now its gone. I cant even trigger people into sending rage whispers after they wasted 10 minutes chasing me for 10 ap. Its sad

Burtan

Killing 5-10 players alone is a regular occurrence for a lot of players (though still a minority). This will always require use of LoS and mobility to avoid high risk ultimates like soul assault and incap, enchant/proc spam or just to escape undesirable numbers of enemies.

People will still be winning outnumbered fights without speed pots as they will already have builds that can cope without them. The real issue here is that mobility was only taken away from small groups or solo players and now larger groups have a significant advantage against smaller numbers.
Solo players cant just use rapids as it has an extremely high cost and will be removed by the heal that they simply must use. Large groups/Zergs however can easily have someone spam it and run over smaller numbers with no effort.

Both sides get mobility or nobody does. This is simply not fair.

Trian94

About what Divine said: To be fair for me it's not even about factions zerging at 14:00 with 20 people etc. The incoming dmg for a few patches now is very hard for players to mitigate and outheal so for most classes (most likely every class but I dont want to be absolute) breaking line of sight is essential in order to recover and kiting is as important as well. You don't need as much speed as in summerset but you NEED control over it to be effective in solo/smallscale situation as the current meta stands.

Azramel

I'm not against reducing uptime per cast of mobility effects, but 4 seconds is too low. especially on skills that are already expensive like blade cloak. (3k+ stamina) You can't expect people to make use of shuffle/forward momentum AND a major expo skill at the same time. The durations are so short and costs so high that its laughable. And lets be honest, what good is major expo going to do for you if your snared to the point that you don't notice its even up. And whats the point of snare immunity if you don't have speed. If your already slow af and using snare immunity there's something wrong with you. And I mean snare immunity which is mainly for stam builds, not referring to purge effects for magic users.

Bottom line: 4 seconds of Major expo and snare immunity skills are too small when they are meant to be used together on stamina builds. Not saying they should both be increased, but definitely one or the other. Probably major expo.

Moonsorrow

My thoughts on current situation for pvp in this game, gonna try to stay objective instead of emotional, but its hard when the game you loved for years seems to go into worse instead of improving as one should expect they would try to do.

Cyrodiil: Pushes people to stack on key places, what makes it laggy. I try to find smaller battles to enjoy it, but only to be chased by 20+ people spamming enchants and snares/roots on me. Nothing can do to avoid it, cannot anymore tactically retreat to try and find other small battles. They will chase one even for long distances. Why would i wanna fight in locations with zergs big enough that my bar swap and skills not even work anymore? If thats "working as intended pvp at ESO" then this pvp is not for me, sadly.

Battlegrounds Yay, i can go do small scale fights there! Oh wait, i have been spamming F to accept bg for an hour now and it always just says: "Someone declined invite, blabla.." and its hard to get into a single fight, and when finally do, i see i got into a battle that someone left and i am placed as a reinforcement to a loosing team with zero score and fight is ending in 1 minute. Great fun, not.

Speed nerfs I feel like this punished us who play in smaller groups or solo, that needed speed to as said tactically pick our fights and move around away from zergs (not get into laggy situations). Never wanted crutches to "kill 20 people solo", just wanna move away from those 20 people and try find battles that are interesting and not lagfests because of too many people there.

Diversity At the current meta, i feel like there is not much diversity or interesting choices that can make with class selection or setups. My stamsorc feels obsolete without speed. Its a bad feeling when i think all i could do now is play with my nightblades and do same cheese as most people, but i dont want to. With nightblades could atleast cloak away and occasionally escape the zergs. Of course some of them will spam Mark on me, but not all. The thought of only 1 class being able to use for kind of enjoying the game feels bad.

Conclusion Never before have i started to think that might need to look for another game, but i am not alone with this thought. Yeah, no one cares if i would not be here anymore, but makes me sad, so much potential in this game, good combat (when no lag), looks good, could be lots of different builds and diversity - well if game would not aim people to make zerg and have solo/small scale people have no tools to even try avoid said zergs that bring lag and uninteresting fights. feelsbadgirl.jpg

First time i feel like there is nothing i can do to get those fun battles back that i used to enjoy on all classes.

glavius

You can still build for speed:
My Nb uses steed mundus, cowards gear and 2 medium for at total of 110% base speed, 186% sprint speed.
My sorc uses steed mundus, hurricane and 6 medium for 110% base speed, 178% sprint speed. (and still has bolt escape for added maneouverability)

I kinda like that you need to build for speed instead of every stam build having it pretty much for free.

It's also a pretty big buff for medium compared to heavy.

You can still add a couple of swift (6% each) or be an orc (4%) if you want to reach 200% sprint speed.

ATomiX96

glavius wrote: »

You can still build for speed:
My Nb uses steed mundus, cowards gear and 2 medium for at total of 110% base speed, 186% sprint speed.
My sorc uses steed mundus, hurricane and 6 medium for 110% base speed, 178% sprint speed. (and still has bolt escape for added maneouverability)

I kinda like that you need to build for speed instead of every stam build having it pretty much for free.

It's also a pretty big buff for medium compared to heavy.

You can still add a couple of swift (6% each) or be an orc (4%) if you want to reach 200% sprint speed.

yeah but you only have to give up your sustain and damage for it.

Trian94

ATomiX96 wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

You can still build for speed:
My Nb uses steed mundus, cowards gear and 2 medium for at total of 110% base speed, 186% sprint speed.
My sorc uses steed mundus, hurricane and 6 medium for 110% base speed, 178% sprint speed. (and still has bolt escape for added maneouverability)

I kinda like that you need to build for speed instead of every stam build having it pretty much for free.

It's also a pretty big buff for medium compared to heavy.

You can still add a couple of swift (6% each) or be an orc (4%) if you want to reach 200% sprint speed.

yeah but you only have to give up your sustain and damage for it.

Or go super cheese with glyphs and dump everything to speed and recovery. Which isn't proper gameplay imo

glavius

ATomiX96 wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

You can still build for speed:
My Nb uses steed mundus, cowards gear and 2 medium for at total of 110% base speed, 186% sprint speed.
My sorc uses steed mundus, hurricane and 6 medium for 110% base speed, 178% sprint speed. (and still has bolt escape for added maneouverability)

I kinda like that you need to build for speed instead of every stam build having it pretty much for free.

It's also a pretty big buff for medium compared to heavy.

You can still add a couple of swift (6% each) or be an orc (4%) if you want to reach 200% sprint speed.

yeah but you only have to give up your sustain and damage for it.

My nightblade only uses 1 damage glyph (stamina steal, low damage) and still has great sustain and damage.

The sorc build I admit, is heavily glyph based.

Galalin

My opinion that doesnt matter is that speed was a crutch much like earthgore. It allowed/s players to escape death most of the time without the use of skill or skills and heavily favors stamina chars. Just hit that button and gone. Taking things like zeros mounting and using rapid to chase ppl down into account is just plain stupid. The problem is the in combat speed. Causing players to miss attacks and engage disengage at will.

Crixus8000

Galalin wrote: »

My opinion that doesnt matter is that speed was a crutch much like earthgore. It allowed/s players to escape death most of the time without the use of skill or skills and heavily favors stamina chars. Just hit that button and gone. Taking things like zeros mounting and using rapid to chase ppl down into account is just plain stupid. The problem is the in combat speed. Causing players to miss attacks and engage disengage at will.

Just like playing with 40 other people is a crutch, chasing down solo players for easy kills now they can't fight back properly. And don't get me wrong, I have nothing wrong with zergs or ball groups ect, I love that people can play how they want, but I wish that was true for solo/smallscalers too instead of being nerfed every patch.

Speed helped counter things that have no other counter, and allowed you to fight back instead of just rolling over and dying. It is needed in solo/smallscale, otherwise 90% of the time just numbers will decide the fight and where is the skill in that ?

rfennell_ESO

Trian94 wrote: »

I decided to start this thread since I haven't seen any posts about it (maybe i'm blind).

To cut to the chase: Speed pots need to be reverted back to 47 secs of speed. Now before anyone gets triggered let me explain. I totally agree that speed needed a nerf and swift got nerfed as deserved because it brought the cap to 60% increased movement speed (70% for stamsorcs) basically making people unable to be hit by melee attacks most of the time which as we all understand was a problem. But as I see it the actual problem was the amount of speed u could stack, not the control over it.

I stepped into cyrodiil yesterday in the evening on my stamsorc (without speed pots), got in some fights and was barely able to move as I was snared to death drained of resources since I had to spam forward momentum and ball of lightning to get around as a solo player (even with a bow equipped). I dare not imagine what it is like for stamdks, stamplars since they have less mobility than a stamsorc. My point is that in this meta which consists of bleeds and snares (which has ben the case for a couple of patches actually) and now with enchant procs, the situation for stamina characters is "move or die".

Yes it has gotten out of hand with swift overperforming and that needed a change, but it would be MUCH better in my opinion if instead of nerfing control over speed Zenimax nerfed the values a little bit. For example if major expedition went from 30% to 20% the maximum speed one could get would be 38% (48% for stamsorcs) with 3 swift jewelry and major expedition, which isn't that great if you think about it. Most players can't afford to have 3 swift in their builds in both CP and No CP (bgs/sotha sil).

I truly believe that if this change was to be made instead of the current state, it would benefit balance greatly.


P.S: In my opinion Forward momentum is fine as it is

Make better "friends".

The usual suspects are still zipping around at warp speed. Nearly untargetable and avoiding damage even though they are clearly not behind anything.

How's that you ask? It was never legit in the first place and the speed nerfs only affects honest players.

Nicalas

If the Torug's/DW enchant synergy is fixed to some degree the game in it's current state for stamina will be unplayable. Gap closers aren't a solution because once you gap close you can't stay with your target. 70 percent snare vs 30 percent major expedition. 100 percent up time vs max 15 seconds with 30 second downtime. This is not balance this was a complete dismantling of Stamina based PvP. There is no longer any way to apply pressure. Not to mention dizzy is completely broken leaving us with absolutely nothing. I have shelved all 5 of my stamina characters this patch. They cannot be used in any competitive aspect.

Trian94

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

I decided to start this thread since I haven't seen any posts about it (maybe i'm blind).

To cut to the chase: Speed pots need to be reverted back to 47 secs of speed. Now before anyone gets triggered let me explain. I totally agree that speed needed a nerf and swift got nerfed as deserved because it brought the cap to 60% increased movement speed (70% for stamsorcs) basically making people unable to be hit by melee attacks most of the time which as we all understand was a problem. But as I see it the actual problem was the amount of speed u could stack, not the control over it.

I stepped into cyrodiil yesterday in the evening on my stamsorc (without speed pots), got in some fights and was barely able to move as I was snared to death drained of resources since I had to spam forward momentum and ball of lightning to get around as a solo player (even with a bow equipped). I dare not imagine what it is like for stamdks, stamplars since they have less mobility than a stamsorc. My point is that in this meta which consists of bleeds and snares (which has ben the case for a couple of patches actually) and now with enchant procs, the situation for stamina characters is "move or die".

Yes it has gotten out of hand with swift overperforming and that needed a change, but it would be MUCH better in my opinion if instead of nerfing control over speed Zenimax nerfed the values a little bit. For example if major expedition went from 30% to 20% the maximum speed one could get would be 38% (48% for stamsorcs) with 3 swift jewelry and major expedition, which isn't that great if you think about it. Most players can't afford to have 3 swift in their builds in both CP and No CP (bgs/sotha sil).

I truly believe that if this change was to be made instead of the current state, it would benefit balance greatly.


P.S: In my opinion Forward momentum is fine as it is

Make better "friends".

The usual suspects are still zipping around at warp speed. Nearly untargetable and avoiding damage even though they are clearly not behind anything.

How's that you ask? It was never legit in the first place and the speed nerfs only affects honest players.

So you're saying that some people are cheating and you're saying that I should do the same. I'm sorry but this isn't an option.