Turelus wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Letting the community direct game balance might be the best thing that ever happened, it might also turn into a horrible mess.

This patch is such a mess, I doubt that the community could have done worse. On the contrary, I am sure that renowned community members (like Alcast or Deltia) who have proven they love and understand the game to the fullest would veto many changes if they could, like Alcast did first with the cast times on shields or the OP enchants. I would love to see a kind of Community Council of renowned and elected community members with the right to submit community suggestions and the right to veto bad developer suggestions, as the developers are allowed to submit suggestions and veto bad community suggestions. The moment where both sides -developers and community- would have an equal saying in things and would we able to veto things, the need to find a common ground would make good changes more likely and bad changes less likely.

There are a lot of people who don't want to play in Alcast's version of ESO though, likely the same with Deltia.
There are already enough complaints from people how the class reps have too much influence on game design (which so far it seems they haven't).

I've played games with elected player representative and those elections are not really what you're looking for. It's all about everyone voting for "their" person. The people who are unknowns who could represent smaller areas of a games community get pushed out by the mass votes of groups of players who organise themselves.

I'm playing MMOs since 2000 and have played most of the "classic" ones and many "modern era" ones.
Of all of these, the only MMO where balance has been more or less done right has been EvE Online.

They - before anyone else - gathered extensive statistics about everything and could balance their game with the only, real valid rationale: they created a gaussian of performances and balanced the game on players withing a certain sigma below and above the average.

Balancing on "top uber elites" who have 10ms ping rate and can solo hm vCR+3 is not the way to go, yet it's what many MMOs do.

The result of balancing on the top elites is that they still appear godlike anyway, while everyone else are nerfed to grub status because of "what if". An "if" that for normal players won't happen.

EVE Online did it right by a lot more factors than this. The fact that you were pigeon holed into specific roles in PVP / PVE depending on how you chose to plot your pilots skill gains. This made it so that if you chose the "Rogue" class - in this case, let's say "Interceptor" pilot is "Rogue" - then you had on specific responsibility, be able to fend off light drones, kill other ceptors, and understand how to tackle. You didn't have stupid crazy high DPS that could shred any tank, you could only hold a ship in place until your friends arrived. It forced cooperation in PVP. How many times did you have a T2 Assault Cruiser pilot friend complain about lack of solo PVP cause they got 2v1'd in their uber expensive sniper?

I used to run black ops baits on Goonies and the amount of *** hatred I got from players whose faction fitted Vaga's we popped and looted by sacrificing bait Drakes was absolutely ridiculous.

No Fantasy MMO has been able to achieve this because they want players to try to fall into the Triangle Model of Tank/DPS/Healer -

I think they need to stop trying to make it so that you can pick any class to do any role in Fantasy MMO's. Each class does a specific thing, period.

Grrr Goons.

There are so many things from that game I wish ZOS could steal and bring over, especially in Cyrodiil. I don't think my dreams of ESO having that kind of sandbox PvP environment will ever be met though.

Anyone who has EVER done low sec / null sec PvP (with a non throwaway ship) in EvE knows the feeling you get at going in for the first times. Heart pumping to 200, blood pressure up your home ceiling. Sweat covered mouse.

THAT's the feeling of the "unknown". Going in a 0.0 gate with no scout available, maybe stealthed, and find 30 ships in there, who don't see you but start probing and dropping stuff to get you...

And what about being inside a wormhole, maybe after 2-3 jumps from other whomholes and you see activity on scan...

man... no other game has ever done the same!

Agreed. I do enjoy ESO more than EVE these days (easier to play on a casual basis), but I miss the kind of PvP and rush you could get in EVE.
I really wish Cyrodiil could recreate that kind of sandbox PvP, but sadly fights lightning fast or just dull, there doesn't feel like there is ever the same kind of rush due to the unknown.

I was lucky enough to fly in a few (three or four) Alliance Tournaments and I can say that's the best gameplay I have ever had in any MMO.
The training, teamwork, planning and, nerves and rush I had going for that is something I've never had anywhere else.

Who'd you fly with? PL or go home.

Caldari Independent Navy Reserve, old school PvP/Roleplay corp.
Alliance under Fourth District or CVA depending on dates, but Provi Bloc over all.

So erm... thanks for always dropping supers on me?

This is so going to get locked for being so off topic now.

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

As I said previously which players do you listen to of you start that kind of development.

Development by democracy? Idea that gets the list votes is the one they implement?

Well to answer these questions you have to look no further than the stamina nightblade.

kikkehs wrote: »

They are just killing of their game in expectations over Fallout 76 and Tes6 xD

Next in line for the nerfbat: NBs - Can't have a fun game now, can we?