Dual wield enchants, both proccing on cooldown from any DW skill or DW light attack.

ookami007 · October 2018

DW needs a boost considering that it USED to be the only way to run 2 sets plus monster. Then the two-handed whiners got a HUGE boost by having the two-hander count as 2 pieces for sets.

That was HUGE. Depending on what set you are wearing, that gave an instant DPS or survivability boost.

It's about time DW got SOMETHING to compensate.

John_Falstaff · October 2018

To be frank, and leaving PvP woes aside, I'd consider buffing 2H as priority. I'd say staves and DW as damage dealing in PvE goes are more or less in balance (within the margins set by that 'risk vs. reward' idea and with caveat that it indeed would be good to make AoE heals proc enchants). So 2H falls behind both staves and DW, despite the fact that staves also have just one enchant - that tells something about clunky 2H skill design and passives. Single enchant is a part of problem, but I'm not convinced that it makes up large share of said problem. The skill line in general could use some refreshing.

frostz417 · October 2018

lucky_dutch wrote: »

frostz417 wrote: »

What we all know is when zos nerfs something, they lose all brain cells and a newborn toddler can do better balancing than zos can. They’ll not only nerf dw. They’ll absolutely nuke it like they did with major expedition. It will be absolutely WORTHLESS to run dw when zos nerfs it because they lack any brain capacity and will completely destroy dw to the point where nobody will ever touch it.

All they need to do is deliberately un-do the glyph bug fix. Dw was fine before.

I completely agree with you. But zos doesn’t know that. They’ll nuke it.

Azurya · October 2018

it was always intended to work the way it will work now................
dw was always centuries behind any other art of dmg, now it comes in line with other ways to produce dmg, only point still is, we must come in melee-range, which is close enough to recieve instant kills on any boss

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · October 2018

Azurya wrote: »

it was always intended to work the way it will work now................
dw was always centuries behind any other art of dmg, now it comes in line with other ways to produce dmg, only point still is, we must come in melee-range, which is close enough to recieve instant kills on any boss

Say what? Dw has been and will continue to be the front bar of every stamina DPS in the game. Centuries behind? What game are you playing. Best single target dot. Best AOE spammable. Best damage mitigation. The only thing bad is the single target spammable, even then it is because of the last hit being funky with math.

And what are you talking about, must come melee, you have a range spammable that gives major brutality and in the coming patch, will proc BOTH enchantments.

John_Falstaff · October 2018

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO , ranged spammable doesn't mean whole (or even majority) of rotation is ranged though. It's just for the record - to mention that it's not quite solid argument.

As for 'centuries behind', then, mm-m, as they say it's complicated; 2H is lagging behind indeed, so for stamina DW is always the choice, but latest trials pound hard on the drawbacks of being melee. Other content gives choice: can be melee, but be rewarded with higher damage. Asylum and Cloudrest don't really reward melee with higher damage for being in melee range, so there's no survivability vs. damage tradeoff.

Granted, I don't think that changes to enchantments will help a slightest bit with those trials, it's just bad melee-hostile content design.

Ariades_swe · October 2018

They're really totally clueless at @Zos.

John_Falstaff · October 2018

@Ariades_swe , they're fixing bugs in this particular case. Tooltips were saying for long time that it's how the enchantments were supposed to work, but they just didn't. Now they do.

Haashhtaag · October 2018

Decrease health/shock EZ

templesus wrote: »

It’s currently over performing by a large margin on PTS. I can confirm what someone said above, any Stam build without DW backbar will be a gimped setup. 2 Infused enchants proccing off rending, 1 poison 1 disease, are each doing roughly equivalent dps to rending on its own from my parses. EACH. Not combined.

Next patch is not looking good, at all.

Kanar · October 2018

So murkmire is live with DW as-is. Expect a couple months of forum crying about DW op "bleeds", then a nerf to actual bleed damage like cleave, WW, pillar of nirn, and finally a nerf to DW enchants without reverting the previous bleed nerfs.

In the meantime, I'll be running DW everywhere I guess.

Thogard · October 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Enchants no longer count as melee so melee chance/stack sets got nerfed more

While Flurry is still not counted as melee. What's so freaking hard on fxing this? Is Flurry not a melee skill? Isn't it a skill which does serie of rapid MELEE attacks?

What's totally ridic is that jabs is multiple melee direct hits, but flurry not a single one :boggle:

Isn't it the templar passive that's melee not the skill?

Oh I always thought it was the skill itself.

Jabs count as melee attacks, thats why ravager is popular on stamplars (at least in PvP, PvE not anymore due to the relequen change).

Regarding the changes of the enchants, it is hard to tell yet, how stupid it is damage wise. Infused trait already was very meta on dual wield and in the end uptime of enchants were already high due to weaving. This does not impact dps very much, but applying rending slashes and then forgetting about the same enemy will cause some real issues. Mainly PvP will be impacted by this, especially proccing the offhand enchant will be easier now.

Burning Light, which can proc off of jabs, counts as a melee direct dmg attack.

Otherwise only the first jab counts as melee DD to trigger ravager.

Bam_Bam · October 2018

Please feel free to share any beastly Stamblade dual-wield bars setup that takes advantage of this?

leepalmer95 · October 2018

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Please feel free to share any beastly Stamblade dual-wield bars setup that takes advantage of this?

2x Troll King
5x Heavy Shackle
3x Spriggans Jewellery + Spriggans 2h Nirn(main bar) Berserk glyph.
2x Master Axes Infused, disease + stam return glyphs. Make use of 30% regen passive on kill + 10% dmg in heavy's.

All impen.

Gold broth takeaway.

Apply rending and go on as normal as an insane heavy bleedblade. Grats now your rending is hitting 2-3k ticks because stamblade has incap + minor berserk to boost it and the glyphs are proccing on cooldown.

So in total you rending someone and dealing roughly 4-6k~ dmg every 2s depending on crits without incap.

Plus you are also on a build with:
3-3.5k hp regen,
2k~ stam regen,
36-38k stam,
3.2k wpn dmg with glyph
12k Pen with cp + spriggans + major fracture.
Enough magicka and magicka sustain to fear and cloak when needed.

Welcome. to Murkmire.

raistin87 · October 2018

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Please feel free to share any beastly Stamblade dual-wield bars setup that takes advantage of this?

2x Troll King
5x Heavy Shackle
3x Spriggans Jewellery + Spriggans 2h Nirn(main bar) Berserk glyph.
2x Master Axes Infused, disease + stam return glyphs. Make use of 30% regen passive on kill + 10% dmg in heavy's.

All impen.

Gold broth takeaway.

Apply rending and go on as normal as an insane heavy bleedblade. Grats now your rending is hitting 2-3k ticks because stamblade has incap + minor berserk to boost it and the glyphs are proccing on cooldown.

So in total you rending someone and dealing roughly 4-6k~ dmg every 2s depending on crits without incap.

Plus you are also on a build with:
3-3.5k hp regen,
2k~ stam regen,
36-38k stam,
3.2k wpn dmg with glyph
12k Pen with cp + spriggans + major fracture.
Enough magicka and magicka sustain to fear and cloak when needed.

Welcome. to Murkmire.

In the meantime magicka builds lost upfront heal on healing ward

))). Oh well, probably time to switch to a different game.

leepalmer95 · October 2018

raistin87 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Please feel free to share any beastly Stamblade dual-wield bars setup that takes advantage of this?

2x Troll King
5x Heavy Shackle
3x Spriggans Jewellery + Spriggans 2h Nirn(main bar) Berserk glyph.
2x Master Axes Infused, disease + stam return glyphs. Make use of 30% regen passive on kill + 10% dmg in heavy's.

All impen.

Gold broth takeaway.

Apply rending and go on as normal as an insane heavy bleedblade. Grats now your rending is hitting 2-3k ticks because stamblade has incap + minor berserk to boost it and the glyphs are proccing on cooldown.

So in total you rending someone and dealing roughly 4-6k~ dmg every 2s depending on crits without incap.

Plus you are also on a build with:
3-3.5k hp regen,
2k~ stam regen,
36-38k stam,
3.2k wpn dmg with glyph
12k Pen with cp + spriggans + major fracture.
Enough magicka and magicka sustain to fear and cloak when needed.

Welcome. to Murkmire.

In the meantime magicka builds lost upfront heal on healing ward ))). Oh well, probably time to switch to a different game.

Yeah the patch hasn't even come to ps4 yet, but i've already pre ordered red dead and am going to buy the new cod for the Battle royale I think. I just can't be bothered with zos ignoring things all the time then leaving the game in such a state.

lucky_dutch · October 2018

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Please feel free to share any beastly Stamblade dual-wield bars setup that takes advantage of this?

2x Troll King
5x Heavy Shackle
3x Spriggans Jewellery + Spriggans 2h Nirn(main bar) Berserk glyph.
2x Master Axes Infused, disease + stam return glyphs. Make use of 30% regen passive on kill + 10% dmg in heavy's.

All impen.

Gold broth takeaway.

Apply rending and go on as normal as an insane heavy bleedblade. Grats now your rending is hitting 2-3k ticks because stamblade has incap + minor berserk to boost it and the glyphs are proccing on cooldown.

So in total you rending someone and dealing roughly 4-6k~ dmg every 2s depending on crits without incap.

Plus you are also on a build with:
3-3.5k hp regen,
2k~ stam regen,
36-38k stam,
3.2k wpn dmg with glyph
12k Pen with cp + spriggans + major fracture.
Enough magicka and magicka sustain to fear and cloak when needed.

Welcome. to Murkmire.

Why would you take spriggans in a build that focuses on bleed and glyph damage? Pen does nothing for them!

You’d get more mileage out of straight-up tooltip damage.

leepalmer95 · October 2018

lucky_dutch wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Please feel free to share any beastly Stamblade dual-wield bars setup that takes advantage of this?

2x Troll King
5x Heavy Shackle
3x Spriggans Jewellery + Spriggans 2h Nirn(main bar) Berserk glyph.
2x Master Axes Infused, disease + stam return glyphs. Make use of 30% regen passive on kill + 10% dmg in heavy's.

All impen.

Gold broth takeaway.

Apply rending and go on as normal as an insane heavy bleedblade. Grats now your rending is hitting 2-3k ticks because stamblade has incap + minor berserk to boost it and the glyphs are proccing on cooldown.

So in total you rending someone and dealing roughly 4-6k~ dmg every 2s depending on crits without incap.

Plus you are also on a build with:
3-3.5k hp regen,
2k~ stam regen,
36-38k stam,
3.2k wpn dmg with glyph
12k Pen with cp + spriggans + major fracture.
Enough magicka and magicka sustain to fear and cloak when needed.

Welcome. to Murkmire.

Why would you take spriggans in a build that focuses on bleed and glyph damage? Pen does nothing for them!

You’d get more mileage out of straight-up tooltip damage.

It doesn't really focus on them, thats the things they're secondary and only using my back bar. The entire other part of the build is a very strong solo/ small group heavy setup and it does just as much dmg as any other stam blade build, but it has a stupid amount of dot type dmg on its offbar.

Also i thought glyphs worked with pen as well.

Kanar · October 2018

General forum is hilarious right now. My tin foil hat is telling me ZoS deliberately did this to get everyone primed for a DW enchant/trait nerf.

It's just ridiculous. Tonight I'm gonna craft up some heavy torug's and use double DW for some fun before it gets fixed.

tamrielwinner · October 2018

Kanar wrote: »

General forum is hilarious right now. My tin foil hat is telling me ZoS deliberately did this to get everyone primed for a DW enchant/trait nerf.

It's just ridiculous. Tonight I'm gonna craft up some heavy torug's and use double DW for some fun before it gets fixed.

that would be really messed up. and yeah, hard to make sense of it all right now.

we'll know what ZOS intended based on if they revert the issue as a mistake or if they nerf enchants/traits to something entirely different.

Nolic1 · October 2018

An easy fix would be to halve the enchants effect while dual wielding this way if you run a poison and a absorb stamina enchant you will only get half the effect this way it keeps in on a equal level with what 2 handed and staffs can do. When it comes to all enchants they need to do this with so in many cases it would be better to run staff or bow for tanks back bar and then in PvP they are not over running the playing field. I know many would complain the only other way to fix it would be to treat the off hand like a shield and only allow it to take an armor enchant or a none damaging enchant. This way they can not stack damage enchants in PvE or PvP still allowing the 2 handed weapons, Staff and bows to be viable for both PvP and end game content.

Haashhtaag · October 2018

An easy fix would just go back to how it was in regards to enchants.

Nolic1 · October 2018

Haashhtaag wrote: »

An easy fix would just go back to how it was in regards to enchants.

No that would still leave them not working as intended and thats was not good not they work as intended but failed but allowing dual wield to be over powered to now being the best option in most gameplay.

Minno · October 2018

Nolic1 wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

An easy fix would just go back to how it was in regards to enchants.

No that would still leave them not working as intended and thats was not good not they work as intended but failed but allowing dual wield to be over powered to now being the best option in most gameplay.

I will say that only in ESO do enchants proc off things that you aren't using the weapon to physically cause the damage. Even in skyrim, you wanted an enchant to deal dmg you had to use an attack from that staff/weapon in order to use it.

If they want dots to proc enchants, it should proc only one and only for that dot duration.

Nolic1 · October 2018

Minno wrote: »

Nolic1 wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

An easy fix would just go back to how it was in regards to enchants.

No that would still leave them not working as intended and thats was not good not they work as intended but failed but allowing dual wield to be over powered to now being the best option in most gameplay.

I will say that only in ESO do enchants proc off things that you aren't using the weapon to physically cause the damage. Even in skyrim, you wanted an enchant to deal dmg you had to use an attack from that staff/weapon in order to use it.

If they want dots to proc enchants, it should proc only one and only for that dot duration.

Oh I agree thats how it should work.

Kanar · October 2018

I'm in favor of halving DW enchants, but another approach would be to only allow the primary hand enchant to work. This would allow DW to have one full strength enchant instead of two half strength ones.

They seem to want dots to proc enchants, and I like that gameplay because it allows backbar enchant to be useful. It would be a bad idea to only trigger enchants on light/heavy attacks or direct damage, as some have proposed.

Biro123 · October 2018

Kanar wrote: »

I'm in favor of halving DW enchants, but another approach would be to only allow the primary hand enchant to work. This would allow DW to have one full strength enchant instead of two half strength ones.

They seem to want dots to proc enchants, and I like that gameplay because it allows backbar enchant to be useful. It would be a bad idea to only trigger enchants on light/heavy attacks or direct damage, as some have proposed.

They then just need to make it so all weapons have a dot so certain choices aren't disadvantaged (ie SnB and resto)

NyxWrench · October 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

They then just need to make it so all weapons have a dot so certain choices aren't disadvantaged (ie SnB and resto)

Yep. At the very least, make it so that restoration staff abilities (Mutagen, Combat Prayer, etc) can proc any buff enchant (but not a damage or debuff enchant) as they tick.

GreenHere · October 2018

As far as the idea of halving both DW enchants, vs only having the Main Hand one work (at full strength):

It makes more sense to only have the Main Hand enchantment take effect when Dual Wielding. It keeps the weapons perfectly in line with all other weapons, without complicating any maths or procs or the like. And it's less calculations for the servers too, I would assume; that's always good for everyone, right? You can simply swap your Main and Off Hand weapons when you want to use the other enchant for certain situations, which is still a handy advantage -- but a convenience advantage over other weapons, not a combat advantage. Not to mention, it's a simpler implementation. I honestly think simpler = better in most cases; but particularly when ZOS is wielding the scalpel, so to speak.

As an alternative, we could keep full strength enchants on both weapons, but have them each proc separately and share a cooldown timer. So if Poison glyph fires at second 0, Disease will fire at second 4, and Poison can fire again at second 8, and so on. Having both glyphs (or all four!) proc at once, all on cooldown, is creating the problem. Too much of a force multiplier.

I just really hope this gets discussed enough that the community can come up with an intelligent solution that ZOS might hopefully steal verbatim and implement correctly (for once). I seriously am afraid of what they'd come up with on their own.

Derra · October 2018

leepalmer95 wrote: »

lucky_dutch wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Please feel free to share any beastly Stamblade dual-wield bars setup that takes advantage of this?

2x Troll King
5x Heavy Shackle
3x Spriggans Jewellery + Spriggans 2h Nirn(main bar) Berserk glyph.
2x Master Axes Infused, disease + stam return glyphs. Make use of 30% regen passive on kill + 10% dmg in heavy's.

All impen.

Gold broth takeaway.

Apply rending and go on as normal as an insane heavy bleedblade. Grats now your rending is hitting 2-3k ticks because stamblade has incap + minor berserk to boost it and the glyphs are proccing on cooldown.

So in total you rending someone and dealing roughly 4-6k~ dmg every 2s depending on crits without incap.

Plus you are also on a build with:
3-3.5k hp regen,
2k~ stam regen,
36-38k stam,
3.2k wpn dmg with glyph
12k Pen with cp + spriggans + major fracture.
Enough magicka and magicka sustain to fear and cloak when needed.

Welcome. to Murkmire.

Why would you take spriggans in a build that focuses on bleed and glyph damage? Pen does nothing for them!

You’d get more mileage out of straight-up tooltip damage.

It doesn't really focus on them, thats the things they're secondary and only using my back bar. The entire other part of the build is a very strong solo/ small group heavy setup and it does just as much dmg as any other stam blade build, but it has a stupid amount of dot type dmg on its offbar.

Also i thought glyphs worked with pen as well.

Which is right - glyphs work with pen and crit and on nb you want to focus on those somewhat.

susmitds · October 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

it was always intended to work the way it will work now................
dw was always centuries behind any other art of dmg, now it comes in line with other ways to produce dmg, only point still is, we must come in melee-range, which is close enough to recieve instant kills on any boss

Say what? Dw has been and will continue to be the front bar of every stamina DPS in the game. Centuries behind? What game are you playing. Best single target dot. Best AOE spammable. Best damage mitigation. The only thing bad is the single target spammable, even then it is because of the last hit being funky with math.

And what are you talking about, must come melee, you have a range spammable that gives major brutality and in the coming patch, will proc BOTH enchantments.

Poison Injection >>>>>>> Rending Slashes.