Stop Raising the CP Cap With Each Patch

pod88kk · October 2018

I'd have to disagree with you. I think that the raising of CP aids players that weren't able to complete the harder content when it came out a chance to take part & complete it now.
For example look at vmol. When this came out it was the hardest content in the game & only a few players were able to complete it. Now more people are able to take part. The mechanics are still difficult & it's not a stack and burn like other other Craglorn trials. Having the VMOL skin is still a way of noticing someone as a good player, or rich but that's a different matter.

All in all I'm very much in favour of the CP power creep.

Joy_Division · October 2018

You're closing the barn door 2 years after the horses escaped.

Kanar · October 2018

Raising CP cap is fine. As already pointed out, the xp required to reach cap has not changed since VR was removed. New players actually have it a lot easier to reach cp160, or 300 or 510, whatever benchmark you want to set.

More CP allows interesting builds like hybrids. A big thing keeping hybrids down is CP, so they need more CP. To be honest I can think of a lot of things about trials that would turn off new players, and most of those things are caused by the players not the game itself.

generalmyrick · October 2018

keep raising cp, i want a super character! :-)

Yubarius · October 2018

This is why I only pvp in nonCP campaign and BG's. CP is clearly a broken system that allows garbage builds and players to overperform and completely negates ANY thought needed when making builds.

playsforfun · October 2018

Remove the cp system and make a better system

kargen27 · October 2018

MajBludd wrote: »

Cps are a stupid system that seems to have had little thought for the future.

What happens when we have all the trees maxed? It's just a poor system, VR was too, imo.

With a little thought they could have done something better, more in depth to make things a bit more diverse. Meaning they could have done a specialty tree.

For example, night blade could have had rogue , thief, or assassin trees. A system to specialize how you play.

I'm positive they could have done a bit more, but, that often seems to be the case.

You still have the same problem. At some point and time you have the trees maxed. The only difference would be each class would have it's own trees.

generalmyrick · October 2018

like the old days of video games where everybody got a "gun" that shot. And as early as the 90s? video games started allowing the use of different guns for different reason?

i run a garbage build i bet! but i do it to target specific kind of pvpER! :-) its fun for me to have an anti-elite player build by not following the "metas."

#respectdiversity

starkerealm · October 2018

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

The xp needed to reach cap is rescaled every time the cap is raised. the cap goes up, the xp to get there doesn't.

Technically, it does. But getting to the same CP target decreases. So, if your target is 600, that gets easier each release. If it's above cap, like 1k, then it gets dramatically easier each release, until it gets under the spending cap.

Getting to 810 will require more XP after Mirkmire releases than getting to 780 now will. But, it's not a substantial increase (about 5% total XP throughout the entire system.) That said, getting to 780 after Mirkmire drops will be cheaper than getting to it now. So, that's the tradeoff. When you consider that most, substantive gains, happen by the time you hit 300-600CP, and the extra CP is nice, but it's not like this stuff will revolutionize your life.

code65536 · October 2018

The catchup mechanism is strong.

My third account on PC/NA first reached CP in mid-December 2017.

Since it's my third account, I don't really play it. I just burn off the daily Enlightenment every day, and that's about it (which is very easy to do; all it takes is one Random Normal).

10 months later, that account is now at 740 CP. With all of the double XP events coming up, I'm pretty sure that I'll reach 810 CP by the time the account reaches its 1-year anniversary of first reaching CP.

Also, you don't need to be at the cap. During one of the free ESO+ events this year, I went and did the Scalecaller achievements to get the skin on that account. I think I was around 500-600 CP at the time?

Odovacar · October 2018

Its truly sad when you see newer players trying everything in their power just to reach max cap. You can miss out on so much if that's the main goal. Organic CP progression is easier said then done though. So many players are discriminated against for certain vet content if they are under 550 CP (IMO) so "trying to prove" themselves to others or "grinding" to max cap takes over. This can be a double edged sword too...

Jhalin · October 2018

Just add clarity in how the CP system actually works.

300cp is essentially the actual “cap” in that you stop gaining stats after that point, and is what most new dungeons are balanced around.

Reaching 300cp now takes so much less time or effort than it did when the spendable cap was 300. Or even 600.

All that’s needed to fix the new-player intimidation is explaining that these are extra easier to achieve levels past lvl50, and that cp160 is the gear gap. If you look at them as actual levels then of course it’d be scary, but they’re not real levels. They’re a part of a percent of a single stat.

karekiz · October 2018

Meh.

Its like most MMO's where they raise the level cap. The only difference is our gear still remains the same power tier so its actually less grind than. EQ1 / EQ2 / WoW / <Insert MMO here>.

Thats not to say that they don't need to improve things. I always thought they should change vet random rewards - first by splitting DLC and improving vet rewards by a ton.

Vet classic - 3 CP purple reward - 1 CP blue
Vet DLC - 5 CP purple - 3 CP blue

This would replace the "xp" reward and just reward CP itself.

SpacemanSpiff1 · October 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

The xp needed to reach cap is rescaled every time the cap is raised. the cap goes up, the xp to get there doesn't.

Technically, it does. But getting to the same CP target decreases. So, if your target is 600, that gets easier each release. If it's above cap, like 1k, then it gets dramatically easier each release, until it gets under the spending cap.

Getting to 810 will require more XP after Mirkmire releases than getting to 780 now will. But, it's not a substantial increase (about 5% total XP throughout the entire system.) That said, getting to 780 after Mirkmire drops will be cheaper than getting to it now. So, that's the tradeoff. When you consider that most, substantive gains, happen by the time you hit 300-600CP, and the extra CP is nice, but it's not like this stuff will revolutionize your life.

I stand corrected. It'll be like 7.25m xp more if starting fresh after the increase.

starkerealm · October 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

Just add clarity in how the CP system actually works.

300cp is essentially the actual “cap” in that you stop gaining stats after that point, and is what most new dungeons are balanced around.

Reaching 300cp now takes so much less time or effort than it did when the spendable cap was 300. Or even 600.

All that’s needed to fix the new-player intimidation is explaining that these are extra easier to achieve levels past lvl50, and that cp160 is the gear gap. If you look at them as actual levels then of course it’d be scary, but they’re not real levels. They’re a part of a percent of a single stat.

A minor nitpick, the spendable cap started at 501, so it was never 300. When the system was first implemented, there was no spending cap of any kind for something like the first year of the system.

Jameliel · October 2018

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Nope.. continue onward with the CPs. No need to change something that isn't broken. Perhaps.. tweak it just a little bit and bring it down to every 2 months. Ha ha

It's broken. You just haven't played enough mmos to understand. As the CP gets higher and higher, players become more and more powerful. This affects skills, dungeons and all PVE content. It also creates a wider and wider gap between lower CP players and those at max. Eventually z0$ has two choices. Either totally sell out and go pay to win by milking those addicts who spend thousands of dollars, or totally change the CP system while tweaking content and skills.

For reference you can research Skyforge if you care to. It's simply the most recent major MMO to have a system similar to ESO. ESO has a lot more content and room to change things, so hopefully z0$ won't send it any further into a pit.

Loves_guars · October 2018

I agree and let me add I'm above the cap, I never had to grind CP, but 780 is a horrible quantity to answer to a friend new player who asks how many levels are after 50. It has to be terribly disheartining for many of them, even when I tell them you don't need 780.

Jhalin · October 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Just add clarity in how the CP system actually works.

300cp is essentially the actual “cap” in that you stop gaining stats after that point, and is what most new dungeons are balanced around.

Reaching 300cp now takes so much less time or effort than it did when the spendable cap was 300. Or even 600.

All that’s needed to fix the new-player intimidation is explaining that these are extra easier to achieve levels past lvl50, and that cp160 is the gear gap. If you look at them as actual levels then of course it’d be scary, but they’re not real levels. They’re a part of a percent of a single stat.

A minor nitpick, the spendable cap started at 501, so it was never 300. When the system was first implemented, there was no spending cap of any kind for something like the first year of the system.

Ah, I ended up taking a break before One Tam and came back with the cap at 600. Though now I’m wondering how it ended up going from a 501 cap to an even 600

Well regardless, it’s still the easiest it’s ever been to reach the stat cutoff point at 300cp, and to those pointing out the increased amount to hit max spendable cp, it’s simply because the newly accessible points do require new exp, but every cap increase the exp a player needs to reach that former cap goes down

CP, in function and in earning, are both highly frontloaded

Pyr0xyrecuprotite · October 2018

At under cp500 or so, it's really easy to get more Champion Points because of the scaling mechanism and daily enlightenment. Just do one daily random normal dungeon (and/or battleground) and you'll get something like 400k XP, which will be more than one CP worth. Do this on a regular basis and you'll easily be getting more than 120CPs in the same timeframe in which ZoS raises the cap by 30CPs. So yes, keep playing and you'll get to the cap.

That said, the real CP target is actually more like 300 or so. The benefits of CPs are front-loaded so much that most of the passives give very little extra benefit after that point. The big difference between someone at CP300 and someone at CP780 is usually PLAYER experience, not CPs.

Make sure to stop a while when you reach CP160 though, to get some decent CP160 gear and figure out a decent end-game build (skills rotation etc.). Trying to use lower-level gear and some levelling-appropriate skills after that will give you very weak abilities.

HalloweenWeed · October 2018

I don't think they have enough new players coming into the game to even do anything for them. It is my opinion that most of the lowbies are repeat players, starting new builds, many don't like to go past 50 (another testament to the inadequacy of the CP system, for a minority of players). I would guess that the player base with under 6 mos. invested is below 2%, meaning it's not 'where the money is.' Therefore, I think ZOS doesn't care about how hard it is for new players, and the OP argument focus on that aspect is flawed.

Otherwise, I have always disliked the CP system, except that CP numbers apply equally to all my characters, and I don't have any suggestions for alternatives, but there were several good ones in this thread that I have read. And I don't play in the CP-enabled PvP, NEVER, it is too unfair for those without tons of experience. Experience in itself rewards you with skill, that's all you need, adding CPs just tips the boat too unfairly.

That said, I think ZOS does it just to keep the players, as a desperate attempt to keep them playing at endgame. I think it works for a percentage, the same ones who just grind to get to the top or the CP heap, and don't REALLY enjoy the gameplay. It may be true that they have to do something like this to keep them playing. I think they should focus on those that enjoy the story, lore, camaraderie, social aspects, guilds, experimentation, crafting, and just plain fun gameplay. That would keep us playing.

For that matter, what about improving the guild and store system? ESO SHOULD'VE had something like Master Merchant built-in, for starters, and allow bigger guilds and/or linked 'sister guilds' (Chapters), ran by a single Guildmaster with 'Presidents' managing the Chapters, all selling in the same guild store under the same guild trader (and allowing at least 100 items - 100 stacks - for sale from each member). Now as a result of the poor guild implementation, and poor guild tools, we have to use a flawed MM that hasn't been updated in years, and who knows how much longer it will work (with bug-stopping mods). Do this instead of expending resources on the CP system and adding thousands of sets that actually are no better than a dozen other sets of the same usage (STOP ADDING SETS!). This is what will keep players playing longer. But now I have digressed form the thread subject. Just my opinion.

MaxJrFTW · October 2018

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Zos gives plenty of ways to catch up with CP, multiple ways like the variety of xp pots, scrolls, and double xp events. If xp was hard to get I could see the issue but it’s never been easier to catch up than nowadays.

And yet it takes about a year give or take to reach cp cap, unless you decide to go grind skyreach everyday which is something nobody wants to do.

Most people don't even play a video game for a year...

MaxJrFTW · October 2018

Fleshreaper wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Okay so we all know Champion points are cool and all. They offer an end-game goal rather than stagnating at level 50 or old vet rank 16. It has its issues, of course. However, the constant usable cap increase with each patch is becoming more daunting for newer players. End-game progression shouldn't be a grind, but it is. I'll take the end-game pve community. This community is suffering with both people scared off by the CP grind or vet people quitting. It can days or weeks to get to the current cap. It's just becoming too much for newet players.

I may have over 1100 CP, but with each patch, the extra points are just becoming more and more useless with the diminishing returns on CP.

So yeah, ZOS. Stop raising the cap. It's not helping to get in newer players that will stick. And even reduce the experience needed to get CP. Make it faster so it's not a grind.

PS: For any newer players interested in the end-game trials and stuff, you don't have to be capped.

To be honest, if you don't have or don't want to spend "days or weeks" leveling to max, then MMORPGs are probably not for you. As a new player your first goal should not be end game trails. Your first goal should be skill points. And to get max skill points you will have to run through the story quests and zone picking up skyshards, lore books, delves, dolmens, and public delves. With all the exp buffing items, running Cadwell's silver and gold, you will get max CP and by the time you have all of your skill points, you will be ready to start group content. This whole thing sounds like the give it to me and give it to me right now without me having to do anything for it, mentality.

Couple of months in you're no longer a new player. You've already done all that. And you're nowhere near cp cap, not even half way through.

I can't believe there's people defending this system.

boombazookajd · October 2018

There are so many threads about CP's and bashing them but please, do tell, what do you suggest replaces them? More levels?

Keep complaining and watch ZoS let the good idea fairy out of the cage...

then it will whisper sweet nothings into someones ear.

Then the gear cap gets raised to 300. Or a new level system comes out, then they think its a good idea to get players to revisit content and suddenly your regrinding that BSW staff or vMA fire staff.

Stop with the "good ideas" and leave well enough alone.

hiyde · October 2018

HalloweenWeed wrote: »

ESO SHOULD'VE had something like Master Merchant built-in...Now as a result of the poor guild implementation, and poor guild tools, we have to use a flawed MM that hasn't been updated in years, and who knows how much longer it will work (with bug-stopping mods).

Dang, @Philgo68, I'm really sorry to hear you haven't updated MM in years, which begs the question, where are all these fake MM updates coming from if not you??

Palidon · October 2018

Please give me a break here. If you don't want to use the cp increases then don't. Just let them stack up. There is nothing forcing you to use them. Maybe you do not want the extra cp but other players do. I swear some folks will complain about anything.

Katahdin · October 2018

richo262 wrote: »

I actually think the Nightblade class could be destroyed.

Right after we destroy the class you like to play

On topic:

People need to stop rushing to end game. This game is so rich with things to experience, why do you want to race through it? This game is about the journey as much or more than the destination.

With the catch up mechanic, all the sources of XP and the fact that daily login rewards rain XP scrolls, it's not hard to level up fairly fast.

I do think more guilds should be willing to train newer players. Do more normal runs for those new to trials that need gear, more open vet runs for lower CP players with gear to start learning and progressing vet experience.

That 300 CP player may not be ready for your progression leaderboard group today but he might be your go-to tank tomorrow if you give him a chance to learn.

lagrue · October 2018

NO thanks I'd straight up quit the game if there was no more CP Chase.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · October 2018

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Fleshreaper wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Okay so we all know Champion points are cool and all. They offer an end-game goal rather than stagnating at level 50 or old vet rank 16. It has its issues, of course. However, the constant usable cap increase with each patch is becoming more daunting for newer players. End-game progression shouldn't be a grind, but it is. I'll take the end-game pve community. This community is suffering with both people scared off by the CP grind or vet people quitting. It can days or weeks to get to the current cap. It's just becoming too much for newet players.

I may have over 1100 CP, but with each patch, the extra points are just becoming more and more useless with the diminishing returns on CP.

So yeah, ZOS. Stop raising the cap. It's not helping to get in newer players that will stick. And even reduce the experience needed to get CP. Make it faster so it's not a grind.

PS: For any newer players interested in the end-game trials and stuff, you don't have to be capped.

To be honest, if you don't have or don't want to spend "days or weeks" leveling to max, then MMORPGs are probably not for you. As a new player your first goal should not be end game trails. Your first goal should be skill points. And to get max skill points you will have to run through the story quests and zone picking up skyshards, lore books, delves, dolmens, and public delves. With all the exp buffing items, running Cadwell's silver and gold, you will get max CP and by the time you have all of your skill points, you will be ready to start group content. This whole thing sounds like the give it to me and give it to me right now without me having to do anything for it, mentality.

Couple of months in you're no longer a new player. You've already done all that. And you're nowhere near cp cap, not even half way through.

I can't believe there's people defending this system.

Lmao!! A couple of months and your expecting to be "All Done"?
This is the problem with some players. Thinking that you must rush to CP cap first thing.
That is why we have 600+CP players who have maybe 80 skill points and are gimped cause they have no skills and no idea how to use them. Plus, this is an Elder Scrolls Game! Take your time to do the quests, listen to the storyline, enjoy the lore of this HUGE universe that Bethesda/ Zenimax gave us!
@Fleshreaper explained it nicely.

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Zos gives plenty of ways to catch up with CP, multiple ways like the variety of xp pots, scrolls, and double xp events. If xp was hard to get I could see the issue but it’s never been easier to catch up than nowadays.

And yet it takes about a year give or take to reach cp cap, unless you decide to go grind skyreach everyday which is something nobody wants to do.

Most people don't even play a video game for a year...

Again, lmao!
I played TES3 for over 2 years! Hell, I have played ESO for 5 years with 8,500hrs in game and I still feel like a "n00b" new player sometimes.

FYI: I would much rather run with a 100CP player with all the skill points and knowledge than run with a 600+CP player who just grinded Skyreach and has minimal skills and no experience with them.
Just my 2 drakes....
Huzzah!

Osteos · October 2018

I agree! Just give us 30 when we get the Chapter and that's it for the year.

DMuehlhausen · October 2018

CPs aren't cool. They are breaking the game even more. That being said I'm able to stay ahead of the curve and I literally maybe do 1 pledge a night on average...so yeah yo can't really complain about it.