The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Templar
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cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jabs as a spammable is fine. Don't make it single Target. One of the advantages of a Templar is the AOE on their main spammable. Sure tweak the single Target component of the skill to play out as such and not get broken from evasion, that is a solid gripe.
But continuously asking for homogeneous changes is bad. If you want a spammable that acts like a nightBlades and an execute that acts like a Nightblade. Play Nightblade.
MagPlar is in a very solid spot. Don't need to break core skills.
Now jabs is wonky. And needs to be fixed. If it's going to take a hit from major evasion then that makes it an AOE and as such should not be dodgeable. And vise versa. They need to iron out those inconsistencies with the skill for sure.0 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭cpuScientist wrote: »Jabs as a spammable is fine. Don't make it single Target. One of the advantages of a Templar is the AOE on their main spammable. Sure tweak the single Target component of the skill to play out as such and not get broken from evasion, that is a solid gripe.
But continuously asking for homogeneous changes is bad. If you want a spammable that acts like a nightBlades and an execute that acts like a Nightblade. Play Nightblade.
MagPlar is in a very solid spot. Don't need to break core skills.
Now jabs is wonky. And needs to be fixed. If it's going to take a hit from major evasion then that makes it an AOE and as such should not be dodgeable. And vise versa. They need to iron out those inconsistencies with the skill for sure.
Solid reply, thanks.
Increasing the tooltip damage would be helpful (yes, another increase). Not only to offset the evasion changes but also to complement the upcoming increase in shards damage. Every magplar's rotation includes sweeps in their dps parse. If we want magplar's the be solid DPS contenders in trials (and other content) then I feel like a tooltip increase is justified.
How much? Well, that's a matter of testing and balancing. Let's start at 25% and go from there
Edit: Same goes for stamplar jabs as well. Moar for all!Edited by JimmyJuJu on October 15, 2018 7:25PM0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭cpuScientist wrote: »Jabs as a spammable is fine. Don't make it single Target. One of the advantages of a Templar is the AOE on their main spammable. Sure tweak the single Target component of the skill to play out as such and not get broken from evasion, that is a solid gripe.
But continuously asking for homogeneous changes is bad. If you want a spammable that acts like a nightBlades and an execute that acts like a Nightblade. Play Nightblade.
MagPlar is in a very solid spot. Don't need to break core skills.
Now jabs is wonky. And needs to be fixed. If it's going to take a hit from major evasion then that makes it an AOE and as such should not be dodgeable. And vise versa. They need to iron out those inconsistencies with the skill for sure.
Solid reply, thanks.
Increasing the tooltip damage would be helpful (yes, another increase). Not only to offset the evasion changes but also to complement the upcoming increase in shards damage. Every magplar's rotation includes sweeps in their dps parse. If we want magplar's the be solid DPS contenders in trials (and other content) then I feel like a tooltip increase is justified.
How much? Well, that's a matter of testing and balancing. Let's start at 25% and go from there
Edit: Same goes for stamplar jabs as well. Moar for all!
That does not sound like a good idea tough. As much as I know the best dps parses on magplars are reached with ele weapon and not with sweeps as spamable. This is not due to the lack of damage (which is higher than most other spamables), but because of the channle nature of the skill. Templars using sweeps as spamable loose time to weave between them since the channel is longer than a whole gloabl cooldown. Additionally such a damage increase probably would lead to a more than healthy tooltip of sweeps in content like PvP.0 -
jbjondeaueb17_ESO✭✭✭✭cpuScientist wrote: »Jabs as a spammable is fine. Don't make it single Target. One of the advantages of a Templar is the AOE on their main spammable. Sure tweak the single Target component of the skill to play out as such and not get broken from evasion, that is a solid gripe.
But continuously asking for homogeneous changes is bad. If you want a spammable that acts like a nightBlades and an execute that acts like a Nightblade. Play Nightblade.
MagPlar is in a very solid spot. Don't need to break core skills.
Now jabs is wonky. And needs to be fixed. If it's going to take a hit from major evasion then that makes it an AOE and as such should not be dodgeable. And vise versa. They need to iron out those inconsistencies with the skill for sure.
Solid reply, thanks.
Increasing the tooltip damage would be helpful (yes, another increase). Not only to offset the evasion changes but also to complement the upcoming increase in shards damage. Every magplar's rotation includes sweeps in their dps parse. If we want magplar's the be solid DPS contenders in trials (and other content) then I feel like a tooltip increase is justified.
How much? Well, that's a matter of testing and balancing. Let's start at 25% and go from there
Edit: Same goes for stamplar jabs as well. Moar for all!
That does not sound like a good idea tough. As much as I know the best dps parses on magplars are reached with ele weapon and not with sweeps as spamable. This is not due to the lack of damage (which is higher than most other spamables), but because of the channle nature of the skill. Templars using sweeps as spamable loose time to weave between them since the channel is longer than a whole gloabl cooldown. Additionally such a damage increase probably would lead to a more than healthy tooltip of sweeps in content like PvP.
I'm not sure it would make sick damage in PvP considering we're already losing 25% damage (less with the way calculations i made, i know, but still, and it doesn't affect single target spammables) with Major Evasion on a lot of players after the patch.
Edit : Perhaps it could be considered to up the damage on the main target and lower the damage on the other targets, It would already made it more useful on single target without losing on global damage.Edited by jbjondeaueb17_ESO on October 16, 2018 3:38PMPain-Healer - Argonian Templar Healer (EP) - Immortal Redeemer - Gryphon's Heart
Guild : Ghosts and Goblins Target Dummies
Players know me as Jeban0 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭cpuScientist wrote: »Jabs as a spammable is fine. Don't make it single Target. One of the advantages of a Templar is the AOE on their main spammable. Sure tweak the single Target component of the skill to play out as such and not get broken from evasion, that is a solid gripe.
But continuously asking for homogeneous changes is bad. If you want a spammable that acts like a nightBlades and an execute that acts like a Nightblade. Play Nightblade.
MagPlar is in a very solid spot. Don't need to break core skills.
Now jabs is wonky. And needs to be fixed. If it's going to take a hit from major evasion then that makes it an AOE and as such should not be dodgeable. And vise versa. They need to iron out those inconsistencies with the skill for sure.
Solid reply, thanks.
Increasing the tooltip damage would be helpful (yes, another increase). Not only to offset the evasion changes but also to complement the upcoming increase in shards damage. Every magplar's rotation includes sweeps in their dps parse. If we want magplar's the be solid DPS contenders in trials (and other content) then I feel like a tooltip increase is justified.
How much? Well, that's a matter of testing and balancing. Let's start at 25% and go from there
Edit: Same goes for stamplar jabs as well. Moar for all!
That does not sound like a good idea tough. As much as I know the best dps parses on magplars are reached with ele weapon and not with sweeps as spamable. This is not due to the lack of damage (which is higher than most other spamables), but because of the channle nature of the skill. Templars using sweeps as spamable loose time to weave between them since the channel is longer than a whole gloabl cooldown. Additionally such a damage increase probably would lead to a more than healthy tooltip of sweeps in content like PvP.
Hmm, not sure I agree with this. Even with Torug's, there is a window for sweeps - not that anyone used Torug's on max dps parses. And don't forget about burning light. Sweeps/jabs is really the only way to proc burning light and not lose DPS over the other Aedric Spear skills. For jabs specifically, you get burning light and major savagery. Of course, that's a different rotation.
In any event, the 25% suggestion is tongue-in-cheek but I do think higher tooltip damage will help provide magplar's with better sustained dps vs other mag classes (expect maybe magden) and offset the major evasion changes. It's all theorycrafting anyway. I'm waiting with excitement to see test my dps parse with the changes in shards.0 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭ZOS, please stop making a whole bunch of stuff ONLY physical damage or ONLY mag damage. I used the heck out of the defensive morph of Crescent Sweep on my magicka templar, and changing it to physical damage ONLY seems pretty short-sighted.
Same thing for the other morph - not sure what ZOS gains but actively striving to take away options.Edited by Tonturri on October 16, 2018 7:16PM0 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
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I used empowering sweep on my Magplar as well and trust me it's not the change in damage type that will cause me to quit using it, it's the fact that its unique damage reduction effect is being turned into a generic Major Protection buff. No longer can one stack the Empowering damage reduction with Pirate Skeli or any other source of Major Protection. When stacked together a Templar would get an minimum 45% damage reduction and if the Empowering hit three targets that number was up to 57%. It was such a fun feeling to get into the middle of a ball group and hitting 10 of them with an Empowering while Pirate Skeli was up so that I hit the mitigation cap and could then openly fight toe to toe with the whole group trying to take me down. I swear it's the mission of ZOS to take the fun out of this game.ZOS, please stop making a whole bunch of stuff ONLY physical damage or ONLY mag damage. I used the heck out of the defensive morph of Crescent Sweep on my magicka templar, and changing it to physical damage ONLY seems pretty short-sighted.
Edited by itscompton on October 16, 2018 7:27PM0 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭itscompton wrote: »
I used empowering sweep on my Magplar as well and trust me it's not the change in damage type that will cause me to quit using it, it's the fact that its unique damage reduction effect is being turned into a generic Major Protection buff. No longer can one stack the Empowering damage reduction with Pirate Skeli or any other source of Major Protection. When stacked together a Templar would get an minimum 45% damage reduction and if the Empowering hit three targets that number was up to 57%. It was such a fun feeling to get into the middle of a ball group and hitting 10 of them with an Empowering while Pirate Skeli was up so that I hit the mitigation cap and could then openly fight toe to toe with the whole group trying to take me down. I swear it's the mission of ZOS to take the fun out of this game.ZOS, please stop making a whole bunch of stuff ONLY physical damage or ONLY mag damage. I used the heck out of the defensive morph of Crescent Sweep on my magicka templar, and changing it to physical damage ONLY seems pretty short-sighted.
Lol, not the whole game. Just any class that isn't a Nightblade - mag or stam
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Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭itscompton wrote: »
I used empowering sweep on my Magplar as well and trust me it's not the change in damage type that will cause me to quit using it, it's the fact that its unique damage reduction effect is being turned into a generic Major Protection buff. No longer can one stack the Empowering damage reduction with Pirate Skeli or any other source of Major Protection. When stacked together a Templar would get an minimum 45% damage reduction and if the Empowering hit three targets that number was up to 57%. It was such a fun feeling to get into the middle of a ball group and hitting 10 of them with an Empowering while Pirate Skeli was up so that I hit the mitigation cap and could then openly fight toe to toe with the whole group trying to take me down. I swear it's the mission of ZOS to take the fun out of this game.ZOS, please stop making a whole bunch of stuff ONLY physical damage or ONLY mag damage. I used the heck out of the defensive morph of Crescent Sweep on my magicka templar, and changing it to physical damage ONLY seems pretty short-sighted.
Tbh I was fine with that change because I could drop pirate skeleton for blood spawn for more ult casts, armor buff and not have to deal with defiling myself anymore. But yeah, this also sucks xD
It was pretty hilarious though. I ran ps in light armor, and it was fun to see stam builds totally misjudge how tanky I was in light armor, or that feeling of surprise when they died to light armor damage output + that ticking aoe for pressure. Didnt even have to BoL with that going.Edited by Tonturri on October 16, 2018 8:34PM0 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭itscompton wrote: »
I used empowering sweep on my Magplar as well and trust me it's not the change in damage type that will cause me to quit using it, it's the fact that its unique damage reduction effect is being turned into a generic Major Protection buff. No longer can one stack the Empowering damage reduction with Pirate Skeli or any other source of Major Protection. When stacked together a Templar would get an minimum 45% damage reduction and if the Empowering hit three targets that number was up to 57%. It was such a fun feeling to get into the middle of a ball group and hitting 10 of them with an Empowering while Pirate Skeli was up so that I hit the mitigation cap and could then openly fight toe to toe with the whole group trying to take me down. I swear it's the mission of ZOS to take the fun out of this game.ZOS, please stop making a whole bunch of stuff ONLY physical damage or ONLY mag damage. I used the heck out of the defensive morph of Crescent Sweep on my magicka templar, and changing it to physical damage ONLY seems pretty short-sighted.
And then add Undeath on top of that (for us vamplars).0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭jbjondeaueb17_ESO wrote: »cpuScientist wrote: »Jabs as a spammable is fine. Don't make it single Target. One of the advantages of a Templar is the AOE on their main spammable. Sure tweak the single Target component of the skill to play out as such and not get broken from evasion, that is a solid gripe.
But continuously asking for homogeneous changes is bad. If you want a spammable that acts like a nightBlades and an execute that acts like a Nightblade. Play Nightblade.
MagPlar is in a very solid spot. Don't need to break core skills.
Now jabs is wonky. And needs to be fixed. If it's going to take a hit from major evasion then that makes it an AOE and as such should not be dodgeable. And vise versa. They need to iron out those inconsistencies with the skill for sure.
Solid reply, thanks.
Increasing the tooltip damage would be helpful (yes, another increase). Not only to offset the evasion changes but also to complement the upcoming increase in shards damage. Every magplar's rotation includes sweeps in their dps parse. If we want magplar's the be solid DPS contenders in trials (and other content) then I feel like a tooltip increase is justified.
How much? Well, that's a matter of testing and balancing. Let's start at 25% and go from there
Edit: Same goes for stamplar jabs as well. Moar for all!
That does not sound like a good idea tough. As much as I know the best dps parses on magplars are reached with ele weapon and not with sweeps as spamable. This is not due to the lack of damage (which is higher than most other spamables), but because of the channle nature of the skill. Templars using sweeps as spamable loose time to weave between them since the channel is longer than a whole gloabl cooldown. Additionally such a damage increase probably would lead to a more than healthy tooltip of sweeps in content like PvP.
I'm not sure it would make sick damage in PvP considering we're already losing 25% damage (less with the way calculations i made, i know, but still, and it doesn't affect single target spammables) with Major Evasion on a lot of players after the patch.
Edit : Perhaps it could be considered to up the damage on the main target and lower the damage on the other targets, It would already made it more useful on single target without losing on global damage.
Major evasion will not be used that much. Shuffle mainly was used for the snare immunity and not the evasion before. Additionally only one skill, blur from nightblades will get the new evasion. The new evasion buff already was in the game with blade cloak before. I do not see that much problems with the new evasion, since I do not see that many players using it with murkmire. Therefore increasing sweeps damage may have big impacts or may actually lead to the increased evasion use.cpuScientist wrote: »Jabs as a spammable is fine. Don't make it single Target. One of the advantages of a Templar is the AOE on their main spammable. Sure tweak the single Target component of the skill to play out as such and not get broken from evasion, that is a solid gripe.
But continuously asking for homogeneous changes is bad. If you want a spammable that acts like a nightBlades and an execute that acts like a Nightblade. Play Nightblade.
MagPlar is in a very solid spot. Don't need to break core skills.
Now jabs is wonky. And needs to be fixed. If it's going to take a hit from major evasion then that makes it an AOE and as such should not be dodgeable. And vise versa. They need to iron out those inconsistencies with the skill for sure.
Solid reply, thanks.
Increasing the tooltip damage would be helpful (yes, another increase). Not only to offset the evasion changes but also to complement the upcoming increase in shards damage. Every magplar's rotation includes sweeps in their dps parse. If we want magplar's the be solid DPS contenders in trials (and other content) then I feel like a tooltip increase is justified.
How much? Well, that's a matter of testing and balancing. Let's start at 25% and go from there
Edit: Same goes for stamplar jabs as well. Moar for all!
That does not sound like a good idea tough. As much as I know the best dps parses on magplars are reached with ele weapon and not with sweeps as spamable. This is not due to the lack of damage (which is higher than most other spamables), but because of the channle nature of the skill. Templars using sweeps as spamable loose time to weave between them since the channel is longer than a whole gloabl cooldown. Additionally such a damage increase probably would lead to a more than healthy tooltip of sweeps in content like PvP.
Hmm, not sure I agree with this. Even with Torug's, there is a window for sweeps - not that anyone used Torug's on max dps parses. And don't forget about burning light. Sweeps/jabs is really the only way to proc burning light and not lose DPS over the other Aedric Spear skills. For jabs specifically, you get burning light and major savagery. Of course, that's a different rotation.
In any event, the 25% suggestion is tongue-in-cheek but I do think higher tooltip damage will help provide magplar's with better sustained dps vs other mag classes (expect maybe magden) and offset the major evasion changes. It's all theorycrafting anyway. I'm waiting with excitement to see test my dps parse with the changes in shards.
Once more, sweeps currently is a subpar skill for magicka templars in PvE. Not because of its damage, but due to the cast time. Also are sweeps not the only way for burning light procs. Using sweeps on magplar does not significantly increase the burning light procs, if you use blazing spear (spear shard morph, which actually will get buffed in murkmire too). For stamina templars it is actually a dps gain, when you also implement blazing spear as dot into your rotation.0 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭
Once more, sweeps currently is a subpar skill for magicka templars in PvE. Not because of its damage, but due to the cast time. Also are sweeps not the only way for burning light procs. Using sweeps on magplar does not significantly increase the burning light procs, if you use blazing spear (spear shard morph, which actually will get buffed in murkmire too). For stamina templars it is actually a dps gain, when you also implement blazing spear as dot into your rotation.
Well, to each his own I guess. I use sweeps (and blazing spear) in my rotation and it works for me. The attached heal on sweeps keeps me in the game while everyone else in my party lies dead on the floor (true story).
If the community feels sweeps (and maybe jabs) is a sub-par skill, maybe that's a signal to the Zenimax combat team to make it better.
Put it in the product backlog with the other class changes
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React✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Minno @Joy_Division @Cinbri
Any of you guys had a chance to play with jabs on murkmire live yet? According to the bug report thread below, they've been completely broken once again. Posting this here so we can hopefully bring some attention to this before the update goes live on console, despite the fact that the very earliest they can/will fix this bug would be the first incremental.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/442070/puncturing-sweeps-and-jabs-are-broken-on-templars-clunky-slow-and-a-very-noticeable-time-delay#latest@ReactSlower - PC/NA - 2000+ CP
React Faster - XB/NA - 1500+ CP
ContentTwitch.tv/reactfaster
Youtube.com/@ReactFaster0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Minno @Joy_Division @Cinbri
Any of you guys had a chance to play with jabs on murkmire live yet? According to the bug report thread below, they've been completely broken once again. Posting this here so we can hopefully bring some attention to this before the update goes live on console, despite the fact that the very earliest they can/will fix this bug would be the first incremental.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/442070/puncturing-sweeps-and-jabs-are-broken-on-templars-clunky-slow-and-a-very-noticeable-time-delay#latest
I already played on life with jabs and forwarded different threads and messages to ZoS about Jabs being clunky as never before. From my testing: Casting jabs during the previous jabs channel and shortly after to connect two jabs will cause the second cast not firing. You will stand there doing nothing till you activate the next skill. This does not affect other skills, so casting any other skill after jabs is safe. Also waiting a minimal amount of time after the first channel allows to follow up with a second jab channel. The safest way to get smooth game play with several jabs following each other is to weave in between.
This problem only occurred to me in-fight, outside of combat jabs spamming showed no issues. So basically the best way to avoid the clumsiness is to weave (aka git gud). If you are not experienced in weaving, try to not cast jabs twice in a row, use another skill instead or wait a short amount of time after the first jab.0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Minno @Joy_Division @Cinbri
Any of you guys had a chance to play with jabs on murkmire live yet? According to the bug report thread below, they've been completely broken once again. Posting this here so we can hopefully bring some attention to this before the update goes live on console, despite the fact that the very earliest they can/will fix this bug would be the first incremental.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/442070/puncturing-sweeps-and-jabs-are-broken-on-templars-clunky-slow-and-a-very-noticeable-time-delay#latest
This is too complexed to be fixed in couple weeks. But as Checkmath said - weaving fixing this issue for now.0 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭@Minno @Joy_Division @Cinbri
Any of you guys had a chance to play with jabs on murkmire live yet? According to the bug report thread below, they've been completely broken once again. Posting this here so we can hopefully bring some attention to this before the update goes live on console, despite the fact that the very earliest they can/will fix this bug would be the first incremental.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/442070/puncturing-sweeps-and-jabs-are-broken-on-templars-clunky-slow-and-a-very-noticeable-time-delay#latest
I already played on life with jabs and forwarded different threads and messages to ZoS about Jabs being clunky as never before. From my testing: Casting jabs during the previous jabs channel and shortly after to connect two jabs will cause the second cast not firing. You will stand there doing nothing till you activate the next skill. This does not affect other skills, so casting any other skill after jabs is safe. Also waiting a minimal amount of time after the first channel allows to follow up with a second jab channel. The safest way to get smooth game play with several jabs following each other is to weave in between.
This problem only occurred to me in-fight, outside of combat jabs spamming showed no issues. So basically the best way to avoid the clumsiness is to weave (aka git gud). If you are not experienced in weaving, try to not cast jabs twice in a row, use another skill instead or wait a short amount of time after the first jab.
Git gud? I'm completely eff'd then. I have the reflexes of an 80 year-old. This is why I main a springs-spamming healer!0