The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Templar
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Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
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That 60% buff to shards is an increase of about 1k dps but i think it will be fun to feel powerful0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
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We have to be careful what we ask for here. Because making something scale off direct dmg to avoid evasion will mean it can be changed to be dodged from a game mechanics standpoint.
I think the only change here is to make burning light unblockable+undodgeable and then maybe add a stick dot to AS tree (or added to jabs itself).Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭
We have to be careful what we ask for here. Because making something scale off direct dmg to avoid evasion will mean it can be changed to be dodged from a game mechanics standpoint.
I think the only change here is to make burning light unblockable+undodgeable and then maybe add a stick dot to AS tree (or added to jabs itself).
I can pre-hear the howls of protest but...what about making sweeps/jabs single-target with more tooltip damage plus unblockable/undodgeable burning light. I know, I know...but we are getting a buff to shards for more AoE/DoT.
Remember...we're all friends here
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
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We have to be careful what we ask for here. Because making something scale off direct dmg to avoid evasion will mean it can be changed to be dodged from a game mechanics standpoint.
I think the only change here is to make burning light unblockable+undodgeable and then maybe add a stick dot to AS tree (or added to jabs itself).
I can pre-hear the howls of protest but...what about making sweeps/jabs single-target with more tooltip damage plus unblockable/undodgeable burning light. I know, I know...but we are getting a buff to shards for more AoE/DoT.
Remember...we're all friends here
Yea I think ALOT of people love how sweeps looks so making it single target would be perceived as removing another classic templar skill in the effort to modernize the game.
That is just my worry. We will try to tackle evasion, but end up eating it to the 7 medium armor+all well fitted impreg builds anyway.
Just my 2cents
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
ccmedaddy✭✭✭✭✭
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Oohhh.... Touche. I guess we're ****ed either way. xD
We have to be careful what we ask for here. Because making something scale off direct dmg to avoid evasion will mean it can be changed to be dodged from a game mechanics standpoint.
I think the only change here is to make burning light unblockable+undodgeable and then maybe add a stick dot to AS tree (or added to jabs itself).0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
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Oohhh.... Touche. I guess we're ****ed either way. xD
We have to be careful what we ask for here. Because making something scale off direct dmg to avoid evasion will mean it can be changed to be dodged from a game mechanics standpoint.
I think the only change here is to make burning light unblockable+undodgeable and then maybe add a stick dot to AS tree (or added to jabs itself).
The meta might be those medium armor well fitted builds. And we might need to come up with a build to counter those at some point.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭
We have to be careful what we ask for here. Because making something scale off direct dmg to avoid evasion will mean it can be changed to be dodged from a game mechanics standpoint.
I think the only change here is to make burning light unblockable+undodgeable and then maybe add a stick dot to AS tree (or added to jabs itself).
I can pre-hear the howls of protest but...what about making sweeps/jabs single-target with more tooltip damage plus unblockable/undodgeable burning light. I know, I know...but we are getting a buff to shards for more AoE/DoT.
Remember...we're all friends here
Yea I think ALOT of people love how sweeps looks so making it single target would be perceived as removing another classic templar skill in the effort to modernize the game.
That is just my worry. We will try to tackle evasion, but end up eating it to the 7 medium armor+all well fitted impreg builds anyway.
Just my 2cents
I hear you. I do love my sweeps.
That said, I might be willing to part with the AoE aspect if it were made...better. Like, a stun on the FIRST strike vs. snare on the FINAL strike (when most good players have rolled away).
I also like to try new things and really don't complain a whole lot when ZOS makes changes. But...a stun component to sweeps. Mmm, that just sounds sexy.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
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We have to be careful what we ask for here. Because making something scale off direct dmg to avoid evasion will mean it can be changed to be dodged from a game mechanics standpoint.
I think the only change here is to make burning light unblockable+undodgeable and then maybe add a stick dot to AS tree (or added to jabs itself).
I can pre-hear the howls of protest but...what about making sweeps/jabs single-target with more tooltip damage plus unblockable/undodgeable burning light. I know, I know...but we are getting a buff to shards for more AoE/DoT.
Remember...we're all friends here
Yea I think ALOT of people love how sweeps looks so making it single target would be perceived as removing another classic templar skill in the effort to modernize the game.
That is just my worry. We will try to tackle evasion, but end up eating it to the 7 medium armor+all well fitted impreg builds anyway.
Just my 2cents
I hear you. I do love my sweeps.
That said, I might be willing to part with the AoE aspect if it were made...better. Like, a stun on the FIRST strike vs. snare on the FINAL strike (when most good players have rolled away).
I also like to try new things and really don't complain a whole lot when ZOS makes changes. But...a stun component to sweeps. Mmm, that just sounds sexy.
We used to have a stun on the last hit. Having it on the first hit could be cool!
Templar could have it's unreflectable stun everyone has been asking for. Could be AOE stun as well, up to 6 target cap of course.
I would definitely trade the AOE for this type of jabs.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual3 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭ColoredScreams wrote: »I have concerns.
For perspective, I play stamina templar in PvP. I welcome the repentance change but stamplars in PvP will no longer have a reliable uptime on minor protection (and minor vitality) as they did before. 8% damage mitigation is huge.
In PvP, stamplars are not exclusively casting Biting Jabs on cooldown, ever. They are sprinting, rolling, healing, applying bleeds, casting shuffle what feels like every 3 seconds to stay out of roots, purging, reapplying buffs, dots, and hots, ulting, repenting, getting into melee range, moving to line of sight etc... therefore having 3 seconds of minor protection tied directly to a 1.1 second channeled ability and Javelin, which is a blockable and dodgeable low damage stun that not all stamina templars use, will inevitably result in very poor uptime for minor protection (and less importantly minor vitality) on stamplar, as opposed to how it is now: near 100% with restoring focus. I understand restoring focus now restores some stamina, but it also now costs stamina. Even if there is a small over all net increase over 20 seconds of stamina gained you will have to directly use that gained stamina for expensive defensive abilities, such as rolling or vigor, just to try to make up for the loss of reliable minor protection and minor vitality. The restoring focus change is not a buff to stamina templars, players will realize that sustain is equally as difficult as the previous patches because they are taking 8% more damage and receiving 8% less healing for the majority of the fight.Spear Wall: This ability now grants you Minor Protection for 1.5/3 seconds after activating an Aedric Spear ability.
Please allow stamina templar to have reliable access to minor protection. My suggestions would be to leave it on restoring focus but remove minor vitality, or increase the duration granted from the passive significantly, at least 10 seconds from 3 seconds, so it is more in line with the previous patches uptime. Stamplars will not jab when they need to play defensive.
Now let's talk about something equally as relevant: Jabs doing 25% less damage to major evasion and 10% less damage to minor evasion. The new changes make evasion very easily accessible to nearly every class in the game. It is now attainable through sets (including sets like gossamer that grant multiple targets major evasion), weapon skills, class skills, and an armor skill. I am aware that there was an 8% damage increase to jabs (although only to the one closest target), but this will lead to an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs. Please reconsider just an 8% damage increase, the ability already does so little damage to other targets that are not the primary target. My suggestion is to increase the damage it does to all other targets that are NOT the closet enemy by a notable amount in addition to an overall damage buff to the skill. This may still yield an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs against targets that have access to evasion (which is now very easily accessible), but it brings stamina templars overall damage more in line with previous patches and provides an important role for this classes signature ability.
Note: I do not think the rotation changes to jabs will be nearly enough. Most stamina templar will already be facing towards the enemy when jabbing, if you get rooted while jabbing, the majority of the time the remainder of the jabs will land directionally until they are outranged ("kited") by an enemy who is walking back. The issue with jabs vs roots is not about direction, it is about melee range. If jabs granted a brief amount of snare immunity, for example 2-3 seconds, this will be less of an issue.
If the changes for stamina templar remain the same, Murkmire will be an overall nerf to stamplars defense, healing, and damage as well as sustain because the stamina restored from restoring focus will have to directly be used try and make up for these new significant losses.
-@inscentia " Kiri "
@ZOS_GinaBruno2 -
ZarkingFrued✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is not a buff to pvp stam templars folks, this is an outright nerf. 8% less healing and 8% less damage mitigation 25% less AOE damage to any shuffle user. Why are you all acting like you got something other than javelin now not knocking people out of range? Prepare for your sustain to die even more from trying to stay alive. You'll have about 2 seconds or less after using jabs and spear with protection, which may as well be no time at all. Needs to increased to 10 seconds to have any value at all and minor vitality needs added back. This is more solo player nerfing, they want your zerg to heal you and buff you because they dont like solo play being an option.3 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭1. Radiant Destruction: couple examples of negative effect of its empty duration of cast animation:
A. Its delay damage tick allow to prevent being damaged even if defense skill button was pressed after templar activated execute.
^^ a bit hard to see but it visible how my char activated execute and after doing its animation with hand it launched beam that was force-missed and purged by cloak. I.e. skill activated after activation of execute allowed to counter it. Same goes for heals when target can heal before 1st tick start ticking and get out of execute mode or shielding.
B. Described previously stuck in channel, beaming corpse, forcing to manually cancel it, when target died during empty channel.
^^Had to activate skill then manually cancel it from stop beaming corpse and start attack next target.
We need increase its animation of starting beam to remove this time of skill doing nothing, same as it was done for Charge with its animation speeded up for jump animation on end of skill. In case of Charge speeding its animation helped.
2. Jabs: tried it further on pts with evasion changes and:
a. my heavy armor templar with 40k mana and 3700 spd against medium armor stamblade with minor protection from cloak and Shuffle and major breach from my Drain:
This is damage of this nb with minor maim against my heavy armor with minor protection major Resolve and Major Fracture from SA:
b. My same build with minor maim against stamina dragonknight in medium armor with Shuffle and Major Resolve:
Damage of this dk against my heavy armor build:
^^Recap: evasion change on top of cp scaling problem simply killed Jabs, making any medium armor user/shuffle user to be far tankier than heavy armor users, against Jabs. To the point where even instant cast ability of other classes hitting as much and even more than 1.1 channel of jabs. Situation when Jabs from be counter to agile enemies into loosing all its potential against those enemies.
We need this problem to be addressed and here couple thoughts how to address this problem:
A. Decrease major evasion to 15% from 25%. With current 25% it make literally equal for shuffle users to have buff that almost equal to major protection against a lot of attacks. 15% would be equal for user to have self-buff that have same strength if all aoe attack of enemies would be debuffed by minor maim debuff.
B. This evasion brought problem of inconsistent mechanic of Jabs again:
Jabs attack is cone aoe that work same as other aoes, but its closest-target damage attack can be applied only on 1 target, and cant pass to more than 1 target, no matter how many of them inside, so it kinda semi-aoe, more like be undodgeable coz being channel channel like Radiant Destruction that is undodgeble and hit 1 target channel too. In fact it work like other similar mechanics that being counted as aoe - like Overwhelming Surge set, but there is problem attached to this closest-target aoe mechanic: it apply unblockable snare for this target that got hit by undodgeable closest-target aoe damage, yet it dodgeable.
In bug report thread me and @Minno figured out that it work against rules created by zos, with possibility to compare to similar skill: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/397347/puncturing-strikes-snare-is-dodgeable#latest.
In next Update patchnotes after describing this problem we got notification that this mechanic is intended and an exception. So, in the end we had aoe closest-target aoe damage is undodgeable but for some reason when it goes to check of applying CC by this damage it calculating as dodgeable(even passively by previous evasion buff). This inconsistence that work against templar, along all other skills with exceptions.
So, if CC check calculating closest-target aoe as being dodgeable as exception, why can't we get its closest-target damage to be calculating as exception too and being unaffected by evasion reduction, especially considering its is class spammable ability which damage boost 140% works as single target damage boost? Its ordinary damage is ordinary aoe effect that should be affected by evasion buff buts closest-target damage ticks could not be calculating to be decreased by evasion buff.
@ZOS_WrobelEdited by Cinbri on October 9, 2018 2:58PM12 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭^^Recap: evasion change on top of cp scaling problem simply killed Jabs, making any medium armor user/shuffle user to be far tankier than heavy armor users, against Jabs. To the point where even instant cast ability of other classes hitting as much and even more than 1.1 channel of jabs. Situation when Jabs from be counter to agile enemies into loosing all its potential against those enemies.
Actually jabs needs to do more damage, rather than reducing evasion or fixing cp.0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭^^Recap: evasion change on top of cp scaling problem simply killed Jabs, making any medium armor user/shuffle user to be far tankier than heavy armor users, against Jabs. To the point where even instant cast ability of other classes hitting as much and even more than 1.1 channel of jabs. Situation when Jabs from be counter to agile enemies into loosing all its potential against those enemies.
Actually jabs needs to do more damage, rather than reducing evasion or fixing cp.
I remember before all those problems started to raise, especially this problem with CP, I could get light/medium armor users into execute range by 2-3 jabs only, on 1v1 build. And then game changed a lot, punishing dps templars
Edited by Cinbri on October 9, 2018 3:25PM2 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭^^Recap: evasion change on top of cp scaling problem simply killed Jabs, making any medium armor user/shuffle user to be far tankier than heavy armor users, against Jabs. To the point where even instant cast ability of other classes hitting as much and even more than 1.1 channel of jabs. Situation when Jabs from be counter to agile enemies into loosing all its potential against those enemies.
Actually jabs needs to do more damage, rather than reducing evasion or fixing cp.
I remember before all those problems started to raise, especially this problem with CP, I could get light/medium armor users into execute range by 2-3 jabs only, on 1v1 build. And then game changed a lot, punishing dps templars
I honestly do not see how they can logically allow for jabs to gain a single target component without ruining it's ability to be cast on complete air (making it weak vs. NBs).
Edit: After a bit of discussion on the forums, I realized that I am incorrect in the above statement and that WEREWOLF HEAVY ATTACKS function exactly as jabs should function.
Let me add in that Purify (both morphs) should grant 0 seconds of Snare/Root Immunity. The simple fact that I can sometimes blow 10k magicka on a stamplar and still be rooted by the same effect I was attempting to purge off to begin with is stupid.Edited by usmcjdking on October 9, 2018 11:39PM0331
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Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
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I pretty sure every templar experienced this and it happens a lot in pvp, forcing templars to dodge roll as much as other classes without purge:usmcjdking wrote: »Let me add in that Purify (both morphs) should grant 0 seconds of Snare/Root Immunity. The simple fact that I can sometimes blow 10k magicka on a stamplar and still be rooted by the same effect I was attempting to purge off to begin with is stupid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HohVORgFhWw
Edited by Cinbri on October 10, 2018 6:53PM1 -
maxlacab16_ESO✭✭✭The changes in the upcoming patch to the play-ability of the game are disastrous, short sighted, knee-jerk NERFS that remind me of grade school conflict management. It is a shame, how ZOS is catering to those players who can't play the game and whine about those who do. There is no build that is exclusive to anyone. Everyone can utilize the so-called "over powered" builds, everyone can tweak their toons with the same gear, abilities and stats, and be just as fast, just as tanky, just as dodgy as the next player! They should stop whining and learn to play the game...instead of ZOS caving in and NERFING the fun for the rest of the players! It is a real shame.
Because the money we pay remains the bottom line of ZOS's interest, and I see no intention on ZOS's part to make sensible improvements to the game, that increase the fun of playing it, while they are in fact decreasing it, I vote against the upcoming changes and cancel my subscription (money to ZOS). I would encourage everyone else, who feels this way, to do the same. Let ZOS feel your disappointment.
I will be happy to re-sub, once ZOS wakes up to the damaging effects that their short sighted knee-jerk NERFS have, and return to an enjoyable game-play philosophy. Until then…
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BahometZ✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well despite all the setbacks I'm excited to see what's in store for us templars in Murkmire.
Can't wait for new and improved shards and jesus beam.
Sadly, jabs to me has always been an open world solo PvE skill. I've given up on it, and next patch seems to have pushed it even further down.Pact Magplar - Max CP (NA XB)0 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭Has anyone compared how much damage jabs will do side by side with another class attacking with their LA-skill weave? I'm curious to see how jabs damage actually stacks up and how much dmg a templar gets out of their channeled skill vs another skill in a similar amount of time.
It seems like ZOS looks at jabs and thinks it's AMAZING because it does SO much stuff, but templars aren't getting anywhere near the amount of 'stuff' from the skill - especially in a pvp scenario - that zos thinks they are.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Has anyone compared how much damage jabs will do side by side with another class attacking with their LA-skill weave? I'm curious to see how jabs damage actually stacks up and how much dmg a templar gets out of their channeled skill vs another skill in a similar amount of time.
It seems like ZOS looks at jabs and thinks it's AMAZING because it does SO much stuff, but templars aren't getting anywhere near the amount of 'stuff' from the skill - especially in a pvp scenario - that zos thinks they are.
Probably goes like this (mag only for consistency and doesnt assume passive damage procs):
- jabs - 4k damage each hit for 4 hits with 1 LA at the end. 4k(times mitigation)x 4 hits + 1staff LA of 3k(times mitigation) = 19000 after 2.1 seconds if all attacks hit. If one jab hits 7k after 2.1 seconds.
- surprise attack - can be a 10k tooltip with a 3k staff LA in between each cast. 13000 after 2 seconds (2 GCD).
- flame lash 10k tooltip as well. Same fire staff LA 3k dmg. 13000 after 2 seconds (2GCD)
- screaming racer 11k tooltip, same fire staff LA 3k dmg. 14000 after 2 seconds (2GCD).
This is obviously not detailed and requires mitigation to be calculated. If all 4 hits land, jabs can be better, but are stuck in a channel at a lower mobility. If one jabs hits, its only 7k dmg before mitigation with a light attack added at the end which is almost half.
For a channel, I expect this to match the others at 1 hit; if you get hit with all 4 you were inside the templar house and thus should be subject to punishment and 4 hits should drastically outperform other spamables for that reason of no mobility and channel locked. But if they peel back channel times like they have been doing, this feedback is subject to change heavily.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭ZarkingFrued wrote: »This is not a buff to pvp stam templars folks, this is an outright nerf. 8% less healing and 8% less damage mitigation 25% less AOE damage to any shuffle user. Why are you all acting like you got something other than javelin now not knocking people out of range? Prepare for your sustain to die even more from trying to stay alive. You'll have about 2 seconds or less after using jabs and spear with protection, which may as well be no time at all. Needs to increased to 10 seconds to have any value at all and minor vitality needs added back. This is more solo player nerfing, they want your zerg to heal you and buff you because they dont like solo play being an option.
Make jabs single-targetHas anyone compared how much damage jabs will do side by side with another class attacking with their LA-skill weave? I'm curious to see how jabs damage actually stacks up and how much dmg a templar gets out of their channeled skill vs another skill in a similar amount of time.
It seems like ZOS looks at jabs and thinks it's AMAZING because it does SO much stuff, but templars aren't getting anywhere near the amount of 'stuff' from the skill - especially in a pvp scenario - that zos thinks they are.
Probably goes like this (mag only for consistency and doesnt assume passive damage procs):
- jabs - 4k damage each hit for 4 hits with 1 LA at the end. 4k(times mitigation)x 4 hits + 1staff LA of 3k(times mitigation) = 19000 after 2.1 seconds if all attacks hit. If one jab hits 7k after 2.1 seconds.
- surprise attack - can be a 10k tooltip with a 3k staff LA in between each cast. 13000 after 2 seconds (2 GCD).
- flame lash 10k tooltip as well. Same fire staff LA 3k dmg. 13000 after 2 seconds (2GCD)
- screaming racer 11k tooltip, same fire staff LA 3k dmg. 14000 after 2 seconds (2GCD).
This is obviously not detailed and requires mitigation to be calculated. If all 4 hits land, jabs can be better, but are stuck in a channel at a lower mobility. If one jabs hits, its only 7k dmg before mitigation with a light attack added at the end which is almost half.
For a channel, I expect this to match the others at 1 hit; if you get hit with all 4 you were inside the templar house and thus should be subject to punishment and 4 hits should drastically outperform other spamables for that reason of no mobility and channel locked. But if they peel back channel times like they have been doing, this feedback is subject to change heavily.
Add a stun (or at least a snare) on the first strike and you have a winner. Bring back a reason to fear templars within melee range and #makejabsgreatagain.1 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭Moving the snare to the first strike would be something. As it stands, we have a pool noodle as a our bread-and-butter spammable. Except on the zombies at Alik'r Docks. Jabs really melts those suckers.2
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ESO_Nightingale✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Moving the snare to the first strike would be something. As it stands, we have a pool noodle as a our bread-and-butter spammable. Except on the zombies at Alik'r Docks. Jabs really melts those suckers.
Pool noodle! XDPvE Frost Warden Main and teacher for ESO-U. Frost Warden PvE Build Article: https://eso-u.com/articles/nightingales_warden_dps_guide__frost_knight. Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/5PT3rQX0 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭ESO_Nightingale wrote: »
My best-worst was a critical hit for 350 on a DK something. Granted, I was in a sub-optimal healer build with a sad little magicka pool. But....350.
I'm pretty sure that's the literal definition of a tickle.
<hangs head in shame>1 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheNightflame wrote: »it used to stun on the last strike
False, it had a very short duration knockback (like 0.5sec) that was basically just giving away free CC immunity. The effect it had on people was in no way disabling enough to qualify as an actual stun.Edited by itscompton on October 11, 2018 11:30PM0 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
✭It was still somewhat effective when that 0.5 sec decide live or death. It was crazy broken when you could chain kockback an enemy out of stamina lol.Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]0 -
Soris✭✭✭✭✭
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Back then it didn't give cc immunity unless you cc break. They added it later, like after 1 year after release.itscompton wrote: »Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]0 -
dgsRawkSoul ShrivenQuestion for anyone with PTS access. Has Crescent Sweep been updated to scale off of mag, and is the ability hitting targets?
We've needed this change for a very long time. I'm just afraid it will go-live broken.0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭Question for anyone with PTS access. Has Crescent Sweep been updated to scale off of mag, and is the ability hitting targets?
We've needed this change for a very long time. I'm just afraid it will go-live broken.
As much as I know, both ultimates now scale with the right cps for penetration, but I am not sure about the critdamage cps tough.0