Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6

Champion Point system, do you enjoy it or do you think it needs an overhaul?

Valykc
Valykc
✭✭✭✭✭
I’m posting this as a discussion to see how the community feels about Champion Points and what the intended design was. Do you think it’s a good system, needs adjustments, or needs to be completely redone. No hate towards ZOS, I know it’s hard to balance a game with so many variables. I’m going to add a part from another discussion I took part in regarding feelings towards patch notes. This snip of my response regarded my thoughts on a new system that might be more engaging and rewarding for players, allowing for build diversity and allowing a player to improve their character based on certain traits or skills they want to improve.

From the original post:

... Lastly, champion points. I like the idea of this. It’s very interesting and ties into lore. Yet, it leaves much to be desired. They implemented that to give players a sense of progression after reaching level cap. Yes, it does give us the sense of power gain but the system is flawed. If you have to implement no-cp campaigns and bgs then that should be an eye opener that there could be a potential issue. Veteran PvP players seem to prefer non-cp over cp while PvE players need CP to have enough sustain, survivability, and damage to handle some of the HM content implemented. What I would prefer is bring back vet ranks but give them different skill points when you level up. These points could be used to modify certain aspects of your character to make you more powerful, create build diversity, and make the player have something to look forward to while progressing past cap.

What I’m referring to is a system similar to BDO where you can add modifiers to skills or choose to spend them in attributes of your character. For example, let’s say you have a skill point, you might want to put more into damage on your PvE toon so you might modify Poison Injection to do X% more damage to boss monsters, or if you PvP you might choose to modify dizzying swing to speed up the attack animation by X%, if your a tank you might choose to spend a point into Magicka recovery to help your options, this might give you like 150 extra Magicka recovery. If you are a crafter you might choose to modify a skill like boundless storm to reduce the cost of sprint by X%.

Obviously, this is an extremely rough explanation of what I’m talking about but I enjoyed that aspect of BDO. Will this have the ability to make certain builds overpowered, yeah maybe, which is why they shouldn’t overload you with these points like they do with CP. They should be awarded every few levels, let’s say 5 for sake of the argument. Then maybe only allow a certain amount of damage modifiers, attribute modifiers, defensive modifiers, and sustain modifiers allowed per build. This would be to prevent people from putting all points into pure spell damage or make all their skills hit like trucks. You have to choose between properly placing these modifiers so if you have (let’s say the damage modifiers on skills is capped at 3) a modifier on poison inject to increase damage on bosses, modifier on rending slashes to increase the duration of the dot by 2 seconds, and a modifier on surprise attack that adds x% extra damage on crits, then if you want to modify endless hail to boost Duration or radius or whatever the multiple options would be, then you’d have to drop the modifier off one of the other three skills.

These modifiers should also not provide ANY minor or major buffs at all. Instead they should do things like mentioned above, boost durations, boost single target damage to bosses, shorten cast time, add damage to crits, and they should all be done in very small percentages or flat values so they only increase power slightly rather than significantly.

I look forward to reading what others think of this and what ideas, suggestions, and comments you may have. Remember that was my opinion, I’m not saying it’s the right or wrong thing to do, just something that could be really engaging and fun. Be constructive and hopefully ZOS can use this as a reference when looking at CP next!

TL;DR: just read it and quit being a punk. It’s refers to adding modifiers to player skills and attributes to provide slight bonuses.
Edited by Valykc on October 5, 2018 3:50PM
  • Wollust
    Wollust
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Champion points should have never been a thing, soft caps should have stayed. My 2 cents.
    Susano'o

    Zerg Squad
  • jeedrzej
    jeedrzej
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I actualy really like champion points... Cool system
    Jeedrzej - Magica Dragonknight lvl 50
    Ealian Elieilijas - Magica Sorcerer lvl 50
    Enerias Kazner - Magica Templar lvl 50
    Marcelius SIlny - Stamina Dragonknight lvl 50
    Anvena Kazner - Stamina NIghtblade lvl 50
    Arcynekromantka Anastazja - Magica Nightblade lvl 50
    Threiva Krwawooka - Stamina Sorcerer lvl 50
    Anvena Karen - Stamina Templat lvl 50
    Furia Dorathis - Stamina Dragonknight lvl 50
    Verinia Dziecię Światła - Magica Templar lvl 50
    Anwen Llenariolis - Magica Warden lvl 50
    Welandil Mroźne Serce - Magicka Warden lvl 50
    Brunein Silny - Stamina Warden lvl 50
    Jilialis Szept Nocy - Magicka Sorcerer lvl 50
    Dareiva Tancerka Cieni - Stamina NIghtblade lvl 50
    Doweriusz Desson - Magicka Necromancer lvl 40

    Achievement Hunter
    32560 Achievement Points
    CP1203
    3916 collected books
    305 days in-game
  • pauli133
    pauli133
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't have a problem with champion points; I enjoy exploring the constellations, and passives are fun.

    That said, I think that champion points currently have an outsized effect on performance, and are functioning as a barrier to build diversity and flexibility. If nothing else, the effects need to be drastically drawn down in amplitude.
  • Robo_Hobo
    Robo_Hobo
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like champion points a lot more than veteran ranks simply because they're account-wide.

    But, I do think something needs to be done, sooner or later, with the system.
  • firedrgn
    firedrgn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not sure , but we are alread maxed out in a few cp categories. So the creep should slow down.
    There is some room there still but im not sure its that much.
    I suspect the reason for non cp in bg and pvp is preferred by top tier players because their skills as players are rewarded much easier.

  • RD065
    RD065
    ✭✭✭✭
    jeedrzej wrote: »
    I actualy really like champion points... Cool system

    From someone who doesn't have 15 max characters I'm not found of CP.
  • Koolio
    Koolio
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I like them.

    However I would like to use my extra 500 or so lol
  • Tandor
    Tandor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I doubt that anyone much will agree with me, but I actually like the Champion Point system although I would much prefer it to be character-specific. Being account-wide, it unbalances the game and at the very least the points should only be capable of being allocated when characters reach level 50.
  • Tan9oSuccka
    Tan9oSuccka
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Wollust wrote: »
    Champion points should have never been a thing, soft caps should have stayed. My 2 cents.

    I tend to agree. I think they had it right with VR ranks.

    That opinion will be wildly unpopular, but let’s face it. CP makes balancing an absolute dumpster fire.
  • Numerikuu
    Numerikuu
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Champion Points were a mistake. A lazy, tacked on mistake.
  • NewBlacksmurf
    NewBlacksmurf
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Its really simple...what exists is nothing more than the VR system that ZOS admits was never intended and only a temporary thing...but they went too far with it and "cant figure out how to remove" with out redoing most of the game.

    Skill lines is likely the best thing to extend if you're going to increase any form of leveling so that its meaningful to each character but not to penalize the account.


    Well actually...there are ways and here are my most recent suggestions.

    The Champion system should only be an extension of our weapon, armor, racial and class skill lines.

    Meaning
    The following should not occur or exist:
    -Putting points here and there within the Champion Point tree and working for any new 30-90 more CP to use needs to go away entirely. That is meaningless and a system of diminishing returns which we see being reset and adjusted every few months along with nerfs to skills and item sets.

    -Champion Points should not have any impact on what our "level" or apply any "level" to items or gear.
    -The Veteran Level impacts of Champion system must be removed entirely

    The following should exist instead:
    -Having unlocked a champion passive on any character, should enable access to account items
    -Armor and Weapons that today is seen as CP 10-160 tiers should instead exist as Tier 1 - Tier 16 (an possibly extend further with logic)
    -Unlocking tiers would occur from any individual character however it would apply to all characters on the account (Not just those above level 50)
    -Unlocking armor and weapon items would also apply to all character on the account not just those above level 50


    Account Items:
    -These would be weapon, armor, food, crafting mats, etc.
    -Anything today that is considered CP # would convert to whats now an account item.
    -Account items would/could still be bound as today
    -Account items stats would scale to the Skill line levels producing stats that constantly adjust as you level.
    -Remember account items are tier based so if someone were using Tier 1 - 15 they would still need to find, craft unlock a higher tier for progression purposes.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert (just hoping someone likes something here)

    *Example*
    Once one of my characters reaches level 50 this would unlock all tier 1 account items.
    Once any one of my characters reaches level 50 on any skill line that would unlock tier 2
    Once any one of my characters reaches level 50 on any other skill line that would unlock tier 3
    ….so on and so forth
    Until tier 16 is unlocked which could occur from one or the efforts of multiple characters

    Example 2:
    The passives in the tree now would unlock under the tier unlocks (think of Tier 1 as CP 1-10, Tier 2 as CP11-20, etc)

    We would select the passive as we see it today per character in the champion tree but we would just apply it or not...simple on/off per available effect (limitations would need to apply by ZOS)

    The difference is the % of the effect would align with the specific characters Skill line (being Weapon, armor, class, etc) the numeric that goes from 1-50 today. ZOS would assign a % per skill line and the progression would remain unlocking the passives however this still provides for reasons to play each specific character beyond a basic character level of 50.

    Edited by NewBlacksmurf on October 5, 2018 5:17PM
    -PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
    ~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *501
  • Danksta
    Danksta
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Hard to like champion points when they just take the power that CPs give us away in other areas, like class skills, which kind of leads to lack of class identity. Only thing I like about them is that it's easier to level alts than it was with veteran ranks, but that could be done in another way.
    BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA

  • Nord_Raseri
    Nord_Raseri
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm good with it. I definitely do not want Zos to go around making huge changes and breaking the game again.
    Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.
  • Valykc
    Valykc
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm good with it. I definitely do not want Zos to go around making huge changes and breaking the game again.

    Yeah that is a valid point. They don’t usually do too well with huge changes in a short period of time haha
  • Valykc
    Valykc
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Glad to hear all these opinions. It’s interesting to see how many people like CP!
    Edited by Valykc on October 5, 2018 4:25PM
  • BigBragg
    BigBragg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yes. Champion Points need work. You no longer need to make tough choices on your build, you can just go for everything beneficial. I honestly see them as the largest contributor to balance issues.
  • idk
    idk
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I certainly prefer the CP system to what it replaced. Granted it does not seem as though CP replaced vet ranks since it took Zos 2 years to complete the process. Vet ranks were a poorly thought out and implemented idea.
  • Crafts_Many_Boxes
    Crafts_Many_Boxes
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like it as a system to still grow in power after hitting max level. The whole idea of horizontal progression that ESO pushes is a huge turn-off for me as someone who grew up with traditional western MMOs. There are benefits (zones always being relevant), but without the CP system, I don't know if I would have stuck with the game long after hitting max level. It gave me something to strive for aside from just "equally good or somewhat comparable gear that just does different things without actually making you stronger". I'm old school, I like the feeling of progression.

    That being said, as many have noted, what they're doing now is 1) Nerf abilities and the CP system itself to combat power creep and 2) Design content around the power advantage created by the CP system

    So basically, the game is in this state of weird, pseudo-horizontal progression where overland is totally balanced with itself but the newer dungeons and trials are vastly harder and require more dps than the old ones....which is literally just vertical progression, with the CP points replacing a level cap.

    So again, it all circles back to a situation where the content is clashing with the combat design. They're nerfing us around some dps benchmark...as their trial and dungeon team pump out harder and harder content, that requires higher dps.

    I'd be okay with getting rid of the CP system, but that would have to come with a sweeping rebalance of pretty much any dungeon or trial content that's come out since the CP system. Then the game becomes truly horizontal, and IMO more boring, but definitely more balanced / fair.
  • Nord_Raseri
    Nord_Raseri
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    BigBragg wrote: »
    Yes. Champion Points need work. You no longer need to make tough choices on your build, you can just go for everything beneficial. I honestly see them as the largest contributor to balance issues.

    I make a tough choice every time I make a new character. Redgaurd for sustain? or Nord because they are more like my people and that's what I like to stick with( I always choose the nord).
    Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.
  • Ecileh71
    Ecileh71
    ✭✭✭
    Tandor wrote: »
    I doubt that anyone much will agree with me, but I actually like the Champion Point system although I would much prefer it to be character-specific. Being account-wide, it unbalances the game and at the very least the points should only be capable of being allocated when characters reach level 50.

    I agree with this. :)

    I find the CP system to be overly complex for the amount of brain power I want to invest in the game. I would consider myself a moderately serious player in that I have a lot of time invested (5 characters, all leveled to 50 and 470 CP), but I play casually and PVE exclusively. I don't want to have to think about the differences of all the options offered in the constellations and, personally, would be happy with generic options like:

    Make me more Healthy
    Give me more Stamina
    Give me more Magicka
    Give me Better Shielding
    Make me Cause More Damage
    Make me Heal Better in Group

    I am never, ever going to sit and calculate the percentages, though I know there are people who do. They're the ones who routinely save my ass in DLC dungeons.
  • Hateanthem
    Hateanthem
    ✭✭✭✭
    There are a couple things about CP that really bug me.

    (1) They exist.
    (2) You can earn more CP than what you are currently able to use, effectively "pre-leveling" in current content for the next batch of content.
  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I’m not sure what BDO is? No CP PvP is terrible.

    I don’t really see CP as giving toons their identity. That’s usually class skills.

    Now everyone using Psijic skill line elemental weapon because it’s stronger than their class skills. Something not right with that. You know. Being somewhat hidden behind a pay wall.

    One time a long time ago, it was Maelstrom DW for flurry. They had to completely break Maelstrom DW to fix that small issue. Now they’re completely useless.

    Even if it doesn’t affect me that much, I wouldn’t trust the Devs to go making massive changes to the CP again. They’re looking to nerf something right now. And their going to. Let’s not give em any bright ideas.

    ( some people get overly attached to their toons and changing even the smallest of things triggers them)

  • code65536
    code65536
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's fine as it is. The big issues with CP were addressed in Morrowind. Yes, they are powerful. But that power is so front-loaded that people will get most of that power pretty quickly.

    The sharply diminishing returns also means that CP does not contribute to power creep in a substantial way. The 30 or so CP that I gain each patch increases my power by a whopping 1-2%.
    Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU

    Dungeons and Trials:
    Personal best scores:
    Dungeon trifectas:
    PC/Console Add-Ons: Combat AlertsGroup Buff Panels
    Media: YouTubeTwitch
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Champion points make PvP feel dumbed down and that to me, is a massive problem.

    When CP is removed from battlegrounds because people could consistently go unkillable, you know there is no defending the fact that CP is training wheels.
  • Valykc
    Valykc
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    kylewwefan wrote: »
    I’m not sure what BDO is? No CP PvP is terrible.

    I don’t really see CP as giving toons their identity. That’s usually class skills.

    Now everyone using Psijic skill line elemental weapon because it’s stronger than their class skills. Something not right with that. You know. Being somewhat hidden behind a pay wall.

    One time a long time ago, it was Maelstrom DW for flurry. They had to completely break Maelstrom DW to fix that small issue. Now they’re completely useless.

    Even if it doesn’t affect me that much, I wouldn’t trust the Devs to go making massive changes to the CP again. They’re looking to nerf something right now. And their going to. Let’s not give em any bright ideas.

    ( some people get overly attached to their toons and changing even the smallest of things triggers them)

    BDO = Black Desert Online
  • ihazzit
    ihazzit
    ✭✭✭
    I'm fine with the CP system. Perhaps they should consider having extra constellations that allow for additional generation of cosmetic items like furnishings, writ vouchers, crowns, or even gold.
    If you are angry about anything in this game you are only punishing yourself.
  • Acharnor
    Acharnor
    ✭✭✭✭
    I really like them, makes my character feel powerful. At max CP though the increases are so tiny.
    Celebrate for life is short but sweet for certain.
  • NyassaV
    NyassaV
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I love the concept of CP and up until Dragon Bones everything felt ok. With the light attack buff everything is starting to get out of control again
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand Overlord
    She/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info
  • eso_nya
    eso_nya
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do enjoy that i never loose xp for being at levelcap. otoh, if i log off now and return in 3 years im prolly still above cap.
    When i was below cap, they felt like a "once i get that high, ill be good" - carrot. there was a difference between 160, 300 and 500, but since than it doesnt feel like they matter anymore. happened alot, that after a patch i was playing a char for a couple hours before i noticed "oh wait, i forgot to put in new cp".

    Compared to previous systems, vr was vastly hated i would say. ppl were complaining nonstop that it took eternities to level and the silver/gold zones were to hard xD the powergain from vet levels wasnt great aswell. didnt feel like the char got stronger apart from being able to equip stronger gear.

    softcaps before that were terribad. complains back than were "elder staffs online". light armor and blockcasting impulse was meta. (stam regen while bocking \o/) everyone had the same maxed out stats, classes didnt really differ or matter. stam was as good as non existent. but than, actually not to much difference to todays magblade or gtfo xD

    overall id say best system since launch. could use a bit work, for my taste a few percentage boosts to much (like +10% more elemental dmg + 20% more critical dmg + 12% more crit rate + 20% more if its a dot + 10% more if target is off balance and than additional + 8% from combat prayer + 8% from minvul + 5% from slayer + sorcery + warhorn + spc + ele drain and so on until it gets rediculous). not cp alone, boosters in general could use some work. frontloading cp was a good step.
  • Kanar
    Kanar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    CP should just be left alone, power creep is happening from other sources. Summerset LA buff as someone mentioned. Fricken Relequen set: Christ can we just get the devs to admit they made this set OP af to sell more copies of summerset? Would love Relequen to be nerfed into the ground. The upcoming ST magicka spell damage set is going to bump up magicka DPS.

    But, it is fun to imagine what could have been with the CP system. I would have liked to see the current stars cap much lower, like 25 points assigned, and so smaller buffs to damage, etc. Then add actual horizontal abilities like a star to change your LA damage to % poison, or flame, w/e. One that gives % chance to apply a certain status effect on each attack. Make the active stars be sinks so you actually have to invest to get them, not just get them as a side effect. Also add way more of the active stars. It could have been so much better than the current, really boring, system of assigning a fraction of a percent to dot damage or regen, or resistance.
Sign In or Register to comment.