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Impreg needs to be nerfed

  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
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    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Kanar wrote: »
    If you're going impreg you're dedicating an entire 5pc to just crit resistance, it deserves to have a high value. Transmutation gives the resistance to everyone you heal.

    One question: where's my set that increases critical damage by 38%?


    Impregnable is grossly overpowered, I rest my case.

    Pretty much this.
    Yes all defensive sets outperform the offensive ones. But usually only on a 1.5 to 2 ratio. If we figure in that the strongest buff to critdmg we can get from a set is 10% impreg is magnitudes too strong even compared to other offensive/defensive set constellations.

    The builds which you are usually playing are all ultra tanky as well, there's no difference compared to Impreg builds (in fact they are probably even better otherwise you would replace them with Impreg). Nerf them all as well?
  • godchucknzilla
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    Impreg has nice defense but your damage will suffer.
  • Dashmatt
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    In what context is this so strong? Is it tank builds running it with 7 sturdy, up against high crit builds, or what?

    I feel like even if you nerfed the resistance on the set, you could offset it with CP... so, I still don’t get it.
  • lassitershawn
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    Beardimus wrote: »
    Lol, interesting timing on this just as many Sorc are considering it to cover their Impen needs....

    Yeah actually I'm swapping my impen shackle (you know one of those damage sets sorcs are always stacking xD) to mostly divines impreg for a net gain in crit resist with divines making up for some of the lost damage (actually kind of ironic cause everyone said sorcs ran divines/infused before the patch). Can't make up the lost stam sustain but RIP.

    In all seriousness though I've never thought this set is OP and I've never used it until now. Defensive sets need to be markedly stronger than offensive sets imo or we end up in a boring instakill meta.
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  • idk
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    It is going for survival instead of damage. How is that an issue?

    Considering the set OP compares it to can actually provide several times that amount of crit resist across multiple people it seems odd OP would use that suggestion if they thought it through.
  • Emma_Overload
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    idk wrote: »
    It is going for survival instead of damage. How is that an issue?

    Considering the set OP compares it to can actually provide several times that amount of crit resist across multiple people it seems odd OP would use that suggestion if they thought it through.

    Yeah, seriously. It's like comparing Seducer to Worm's Raiment and saying Seducer needs to be nerfed because it gives twice as much cost reduction, while ignoring the fact that Worm's applies the the buff to your whole group!
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  • OtarTheMad
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    Honestly I think the game has more pressing issues then this set. Impreg is fine honestly. If it was nerfed into the ground then players would just make full damage gear trait being Impen and then put a ton of CP into Crit Resist. Players find a way to make stuff work if they try hard enough, theorycrafters are popular for a reason lol.
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  • Amdar_Godkiller
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    Impreg is specifically used so that people can invest in well-fitted or sturdy gear in pvp. It is not really a mitigation set at all.

    What we really need is more sources of critical resistance or reduced block/dodge roll costs.

    Why not ask for a transmutation buff instead? I think everyone who pvps would be cool with that, since we all benefit from it.
  • NobleX35
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    Anyone who thinks this set is overperforming needs to check the damage mitigation thread that compares different defense sets and you’ll see the math behind everything and realize that impreg is good, but is not overperforming. Its total damage mitigation is about 14% if I remember correctly, which was not even the best. For comparison, wizards reposte mitigates 15% incoming damage and Fortified Brass mitigates about 13% incoming damage.
    Edited by NobleX35 on September 30, 2018 2:40AM
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  • DDuke
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    Anyone who thinks this set is overperforming needs to check the damage mitigation thread that compares different defense sets and you’ll see the math behind everything and realize that impreg is good, but is not overperforming. Its total damage mitigation is about 14% if I remember correctly, which was not even the best. For comparison, wizards reposte mitigates 15% incoming damage and Fortified Brass mitigates about 13% incoming damage.

    That thread is only accurate when it comes to PvE, as it entirely ignores how that mitigation gets bundled up with other sources of mitigation such as Battle Spirit (which alone effectively halves the efficiency of Brass, Pariah etc), CPs etc etc.

    Impregnable's 38% crit resistance however doesn't get diluted by other modifiers and is always a flat 38% reduction.
    Edited by DDuke on September 30, 2018 3:01AM
  • IZZEFlameLash
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    No thanks. Impreg is fine.
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  • Amdar_Godkiller
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    You're comparing sets 5 piece without considering the other bonus

    Max health
    Max Stam
    Max Mag

    Is average at best. Vs Transmutation's Regen and max mag

    I also don't like the idea of it being practically impossible to reach 3300 in BGs if Impreg got nerfed.

    Exactly.

    There are too few sources of crit resistance. If they added more, then a nerf to impreg could be discussed, but until then, it's a bandaid for no cp PVP.
  • templesus
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    Lol no. This is one of the best sets for 1vXers, leave it as is.
  • DKsUnite
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    templesus wrote: »
    Lol no. This is one of the best sets for 1vXers, leave it as is.

    I have found it pretty effective for 1vX but it's very class dependant. See, if I were to run this on my mDK, i would be sacrificing large amounts of sustain or damage. However, I run this on my stamden and dont really sacrifice too much because I can easily heavy attack and sustain.
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  • Derra
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    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Kanar wrote: »
    If you're going impreg you're dedicating an entire 5pc to just crit resistance, it deserves to have a high value. Transmutation gives the resistance to everyone you heal.

    One question: where's my set that increases critical damage by 38%?


    Impregnable is grossly overpowered, I rest my case.

    Pretty much this.
    Yes all defensive sets outperform the offensive ones. But usually only on a 1.5 to 2 ratio. If we figure in that the strongest buff to critdmg we can get from a set is 10% impreg is magnitudes too strong even compared to other offensive/defensive set constellations.

    The builds which you are usually playing are all ultra tanky as well, there's no difference compared to Impreg builds (in fact they are probably even better otherwise you would replace them with Impreg). Nerf them all as well?

    They don´t render a stat useless though - which is the key issue.

    I don´t have a problem with tanky builds. I have a problem with the implication impreg has on creating builds and using crit as a stat in those.
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  • Emma_Overload
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    Why do I have this sneaking suspicion that the people who want to nerf Impregnable are NOT players who have invested in legitimate crit builds, incurring the opportunity costs that such builds would impose, but rather these are people who have some GIMMICK like a class ability or passive that GUARANTEES them a crit just at the moment they are attempting to apply a ridiculous amount of burst on their victims?

    Very suspicious!
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  • Strider__Roshin
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    Why do I have this sneaking suspicion that the people who want to nerf Impregnable are NOT players who have invested in legitimate crit builds, incurring the opportunity costs that such builds would impose, but rather these are people who have some GIMMICK like a class ability or passive that GUARANTEES them a crit just at the moment they are attempting to apply a ridiculous amount of burst on their victims?

    Very suspicious!

    I don't use Shadowy Disguise so your suspicion is as accurate as your evaluation of Impreg.
  • DDuke
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    Why do I have this sneaking suspicion that the people who want to nerf Impregnable are NOT players who have invested in legitimate crit builds, incurring the opportunity costs that such builds would impose, but rather these are people who have some GIMMICK like a class ability or passive that GUARANTEES them a crit just at the moment they are attempting to apply a ridiculous amount of burst on their victims?

    Very suspicious!

    FYI the guaranteed crit you're referring to (Shadowy Disguise) usually only applies to the light attack that lands first as you weave your combo.

    Alternatively you can just skip the light attack weave entirely and use your highest burst ability from stealth, but in every scenario that results in less damage done than you'd get with a proper LA weave.


    Same also goes for stealth damage passives such as the Wood Elf/Khajiit +10% damage or +10% weapon damage from Master Assassin - they only apply to attacks that land from stealth (i.e. the light attack), not to attacks that follow after the light attack has taken you out of stealth.

    Just something everyone should be aware of.
    Edited by DDuke on September 30, 2018 12:02PM
  • Ragnaroek93
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    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Kanar wrote: »
    If you're going impreg you're dedicating an entire 5pc to just crit resistance, it deserves to have a high value. Transmutation gives the resistance to everyone you heal.

    One question: where's my set that increases critical damage by 38%?


    Impregnable is grossly overpowered, I rest my case.

    Pretty much this.
    Yes all defensive sets outperform the offensive ones. But usually only on a 1.5 to 2 ratio. If we figure in that the strongest buff to critdmg we can get from a set is 10% impreg is magnitudes too strong even compared to other offensive/defensive set constellations.

    The builds which you are usually playing are all ultra tanky as well, there's no difference compared to Impreg builds (in fact they are probably even better otherwise you would replace them with Impreg). Nerf them all as well?

    They don´t render a stat useless though - which is the key issue.

    I don´t have a problem with tanky builds. I have a problem with the implication impreg has on creating builds and using crit as a stat in those.

    That's a fair point but nerfing defensive sets right now after they have taken away most of the tools which allowed to survive without these sets will be a mistake in my opinion. I've tested medium armor on PTS and ended up with playing two defensive sets. You said something similar after testing light armor. If the PTS would hit the live server today, I think Impreg rendering crit as an undesireable stat would be the last problem.
    Other builds don't render a stat useless but aren't less "broken". With the update we get two items which provide a defensive Major Buff on demand and there are super powerful 2p sets as well. And in no CP Impreg isn't even on top of the other options.
    Daus wrote: »
    Why do I have this sneaking suspicion that the people who want to nerf Impregnable are NOT players who have invested in legitimate crit builds, incurring the opportunity costs that such builds would impose, but rather these are people who have some GIMMICK like a class ability or passive that GUARANTEES them a crit just at the moment they are attempting to apply a ridiculous amount of burst on their victims?

    Very suspicious!

    I don't use Shadowy Disguise so your suspicion is as accurate as your evaluation of Impreg.

    Well, good luck for the next patch if you refuse to play with Cloak and with defensive sets. Prepare for a harsh awakening when you realise how impactful the Evasion and dodgeroll iframes nerf is and that the only builds who benefit from it are either gank builds or Cloak spamming Nbs. I wish the light armor builds good luck as well with the nerfs to Healing Ward. Always remember that it's fun to get melted in seconds with barely any counterplay available :)
  • Ashamray
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    I remember days when you couldn't crit players at all. That was a thing, right? And that was a problem.
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  • Anhedonie
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    Nope. No. Not at all. Not happening.
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  • brandonv516
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    Nothing wrong with a bit of diversity. I've never thought about running the set myself but it does allow certain builds to run 5 well-fitted, 5 sturdy, etc.

    The more we engage in conversation about it, the more I am interested in it. Especially with the hard nerf to Healing Ward, my MagBlade will likely need to play differently.

    I'm sure some builds have made it look overpowered just like they do everything else.
  • olsborg
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Kanar wrote: »
    If you're going impreg you're dedicating an entire 5pc to just crit resistance, it deserves to have a high value. Transmutation gives the resistance to everyone you heal.

    One question: where's my set that increases critical damage by 38%?


    Impregnable is grossly overpowered, I rest my case.

    Agreed. I didnt think so before I actually tried it. It just gives way too much crit resist.
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  • IZZEFlameLash
    IZZEFlameLash
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    I noticed that people who wants this set nerfed the most are NBs because people wearing this set is forcing them to use one or two extra skills.
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  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    I noticed that people who wants this set nerfed the most are NBs because people wearing this set is forcing them to use one or two extra skills.

    If it's "making NBs use one or two extra skills", then how many extra skills will other classes have to use? Are those builds even killable to them?


    Gotta love the logic around here...

    Also a lot of medium armor NBs use this set as well to be practically unkillable (unless you run spin2win, heh) while they spam dodge rolls & cloaks with Vigor, Rally & Troll King.

    Heavy armor builds have a stronger option in Fury+7th+TK (more damage & bigger heals to go with the mitigation & heavy armor heal passive).
    Edited by DDuke on September 30, 2018 2:57PM
  • templesus
    templesus
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    DDuke wrote: »
    I noticed that people who wants this set nerfed the most are NBs because people wearing this set is forcing them to use one or two extra skills.

    If it's "making NBs use one or two extra skills", then how many extra skills will other classes have to use? Are those build even killable to them?


    Gotta love the logic around here...

    Also a lot of medium armor NBs use this set as well to be practically unkillable (unless you run spin2win, heh) while they spam dodge rolls & cloaks with Vigor, Rally & Troll King.

    Heavy armor builds have a stronger option in Fury+7th+TK (more damage & bigger heals to go with the mitigation & heavy armor heal passive).

    So let me get this straight, you actively go into Cyrodiil and are fighting someone and it crosses your mind “Impreg needs to be nerfed, this set is overperforming”?

    Furthermore, why do you two specifically @Daus @DDuke always ask for nerfs? Why don’t you do the logical and healthy thing for the game and ask for buffs to crit and crit damage to match that of impreg so those stat lines have more of an appealing factor in PvP.
    Edited by templesus on September 30, 2018 3:00PM
  • Strider__Roshin
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    Derra wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Kanar wrote: »
    If you're going impreg you're dedicating an entire 5pc to just crit resistance, it deserves to have a high value. Transmutation gives the resistance to everyone you heal.

    One question: where's my set that increases critical damage by 38%?


    Impregnable is grossly overpowered, I rest my case.

    Pretty much this.
    Yes all defensive sets outperform the offensive ones. But usually only on a 1.5 to 2 ratio. If we figure in that the strongest buff to critdmg we can get from a set is 10% impreg is magnitudes too strong even compared to other offensive/defensive set constellations.

    The builds which you are usually playing are all ultra tanky as well, there's no difference compared to Impreg builds (in fact they are probably even better otherwise you would replace them with Impreg). Nerf them all as well?

    They don´t render a stat useless though - which is the key issue.

    I don´t have a problem with tanky builds. I have a problem with the implication impreg has on creating builds and using crit as a stat in those.

    That's a fair point but nerfing defensive sets right now after they have taken away most of the tools which allowed to survive without these sets will be a mistake in my opinion. I've tested medium armor on PTS and ended up with playing two defensive sets. You said something similar after testing light armor. If the PTS would hit the live server today, I think Impreg rendering crit as an undesireable stat would be the last problem.
    Other builds don't render a stat useless but aren't less "broken". With the update we get two items which provide a defensive Major Buff on demand and there are super powerful 2p sets as well. And in no CP Impreg isn't even on top of the other options.
    Daus wrote: »
    Why do I have this sneaking suspicion that the people who want to nerf Impregnable are NOT players who have invested in legitimate crit builds, incurring the opportunity costs that such builds would impose, but rather these are people who have some GIMMICK like a class ability or passive that GUARANTEES them a crit just at the moment they are attempting to apply a ridiculous amount of burst on their victims?

    Very suspicious!

    I don't use Shadowy Disguise so your suspicion is as accurate as your evaluation of Impreg.

    Well, good luck for the next patch if you refuse to play with Cloak and with defensive sets. Prepare for a harsh awakening when you realise how impactful the Evasion and dodgeroll iframes nerf is and that the only builds who benefit from it are either gank builds or Cloak spamming Nbs. I wish the light armor builds good luck as well with the nerfs to Healing Ward. Always remember that it's fun to get melted in seconds with barely any counterplay available :)

    I played well without Major Evasion when I tried out Dark Cloak (heal morph). I'm not one of those bad players that rely on RNG dodge.

    The change was a buff to players that pay attention and know to dodge.
This discussion has been closed.