WrathOfInnos wrote: »You think it’s going to be 8k in PVP? That seems optimistic. I’m expecting that to be in PVE, with Battle Spirit reducing it to 4k.
The individual shield size isn't the problem, its the ability to stack them is and always has been. Maybe buff harness to give a little bit more mag back.
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The individual shield size isn't the problem, its the ability to stack them is and always has been. Maybe buff harness to give a little bit more mag back.
.
Oh hey it's you. I think you owe me an apology for talking smack to me and with the tbags,, considering that your admitting that shield stacking is a problem. I guess I won't be seeing your sorc on the battlefield for a 1v1 next update...lol.
The individual shield size isn't the problem, its the ability to stack them is and always has been. Maybe buff harness to give a little bit more mag back.
.
Oh hey it's you. I think you owe me an apology for talking smack to me and with the tbags,, considering that your admitting that shield stacking is a problem. I guess I won't be seeing your sorc on the battlefield for a 1v1 next update...lol.
DisgracefulMind wrote: »Allowing shields to be crit against is enough of a nerf. This is one of those many instances where a PvE change is going to vastly impact PvP.
If there is a cap anyways, why not just make those shields scale directly from HP like the templar shield in the first place?
The individual shield size isn't the problem, its the ability to stack them is and always has been. Maybe buff harness to give a little bit more mag back.
.
Oh hey it's you. I think you owe me an apology for talking smack to me and with the tbags,, considering that your admitting that shield stacking is a problem. I guess I won't be seeing your sorc on the battlefield for a 1v1 next update...lol.
cpuScientist wrote: »If there is a cap anyways, why not just make those shields scale directly from HP like the templar shield in the first place?
Most likely so that tanks done use it. You can build a high health high resists light armor tank. And then pop a huge shield. That has all your resists. So you will be Virtually unkillable.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »You think it’s going to be 8k in PVP? That seems optimistic. I’m expecting that to be in PVE, with Battle Spirit reducing it to 4k.
Actually nope, it's unofficial yet but we know from class reps that it will be still 8k in PvP.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »You think it’s going to be 8k in PVP? That seems optimistic. I’m expecting that to be in PVE, with Battle Spirit reducing it to 4k.
Actually nope, it's unofficial yet but we know from class reps that it will be still 8k in PvP.
That would be a very strange decision. If they are 8k in PVP they should be 16k in PVE.
DisgracefulMind wrote: »Allowing shields to be crit against is enough of a nerf. This is one of those many instances where a PvE change is going to vastly impact PvP.
The thing with crits is entirely PvP fueled. Crits don’t exist for mobs so there is no PvE based reason for that change.
Honestly though, the best solution for shields seems to be keeping the hard cap*, making them scale with resistances/penetration, and allowing enchants to proc on them. The crit is overkill, literally
*50% max hp because that’s a more intuitive number than 40%
WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »You think it’s going to be 8k in PVP? That seems optimistic. I’m expecting that to be in PVE, with Battle Spirit reducing it to 4k.
Actually nope, it's unofficial yet but we know from class reps that it will be still 8k in PvP.
That would be a very strange decision. If they are 8k in PVP they should be 16k in PVE.
Why should they be? They want to nerf them because of PVE primarily.
They already said the check for the 40% cap will be after battle spirit is applied. So first battle spirit will half your tooltip shield, and after that it will check if that shield will be more than 40% of your max hp. If it is, it will be adjusted to the cap, but most builds won't notice it that much as the difference between cap and current shield values in PVP are not that big.
All in all, PVP shield size is going to be pretty much the same as it is on live with this change, shield stacking included, while in PVE we are effectively getting "battle spirit shields".
Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »Allowing shields to be crit against is enough of a nerf. This is one of those many instances where a PvE change is going to vastly impact PvP.
The thing with crits is entirely PvP fueled. Crits don’t exist for mobs so there is no PvE based reason for that change.
Honestly though, the best solution for shields seems to be keeping the hard cap*, making them scale with resistances/penetration, and allowing enchants to proc on them. The crit is overkill, literally
*50% max hp because that’s a more intuitive number than 40%
The ability to crit shields is a necessary change because having even a tiny shield completely negates any crit chance and crit magnitude stats anybody has built for on their character and thus also negates the need for crit resistance and the impenetrable(pvp only) trait.
Even if a shield only ate 1% of the damage of an attack, that attack was a normal non-crit because it could not crit on a damage shield.
That is not fair to negate that much damage so easily without even trying, and, with everyone now having a passive shield while blocking with a psijic skill on the bar, this was a necessary change to avoid the alternative of figuring out how to fix the rest of the mess that causes.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »You think it’s going to be 8k in PVP? That seems optimistic. I’m expecting that to be in PVE, with Battle Spirit reducing it to 4k.
Actually nope, it's unofficial yet but we know from class reps that it will be still 8k in PvP.
That would be a very strange decision. If they are 8k in PVP they should be 16k in PVE.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »You think it’s going to be 8k in PVP? That seems optimistic. I’m expecting that to be in PVE, with Battle Spirit reducing it to 4k.
Actually nope, it's unofficial yet but we know from class reps that it will be still 8k in PvP.
That would be a very strange decision. If they are 8k in PVP they should be 16k in PVE.
Why should they be? They want to nerf them because of PVE primarily.
They already said the check for the 40% cap will be after battle spirit is applied. So first battle spirit will half your tooltip shield, and after that it will check if that shield will be more than 40% of your max hp. If it is, it will be adjusted to the cap, but most builds won't notice it that much as the difference between cap and current shield values in PVP are not that big.
All in all, PVP shield size is going to be pretty much the same as it is on live with this change, shield stacking included, while in PVE we are effectively getting "battle spirit shields".
All this does is create balance issues between different classes and their primary forms of defense. If a Templar has an 8k heal in PVP and a Sorcerer has an 8k shield, why would it make sense for one of those skills to become 16k in PVE while the other one stays 8k?
WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »You think it’s going to be 8k in PVP? That seems optimistic. I’m expecting that to be in PVE, with Battle Spirit reducing it to 4k.
Actually nope, it's unofficial yet but we know from class reps that it will be still 8k in PvP.
That would be a very strange decision. If they are 8k in PVP they should be 16k in PVE.
Why should they be? They want to nerf them because of PVE primarily.
They already said the check for the 40% cap will be after battle spirit is applied. So first battle spirit will half your tooltip shield, and after that it will check if that shield will be more than 40% of your max hp. If it is, it will be adjusted to the cap, but most builds won't notice it that much as the difference between cap and current shield values in PVP are not that big.
All in all, PVP shield size is going to be pretty much the same as it is on live with this change, shield stacking included, while in PVE we are effectively getting "battle spirit shields".
All this does is create balance issues between different classes and their primary forms of defense. If a Templar has an 8k heal in PVP and a Sorcerer has an 8k shield, why would it make sense for one of those skills to become 16k in PVE while the other one stays 8k?
Because one can only be used reactively and the other both reactively and proactively. ZOS wants us to be more reliant on healers and eliminate complete self sufficient DDs that "never die" in PVE. Nerfing heals aswell would be counter productive towards that end.
Also bear in mind resistances apply to shields now, which will make group support shields (bone shield, barrier, igneous shield) more valuable. I can't say how strong or weak our light armor shield/sorc shields will be now though.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »You think it’s going to be 8k in PVP? That seems optimistic. I’m expecting that to be in PVE, with Battle Spirit reducing it to 4k.
Actually nope, it's unofficial yet but we know from class reps that it will be still 8k in PvP.
That would be a very strange decision. If they are 8k in PVP they should be 16k in PVE.
the cap is increased in pvp due to battle spirit adding 5k hp
WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »You think it’s going to be 8k in PVP? That seems optimistic. I’m expecting that to be in PVE, with Battle Spirit reducing it to 4k.
Actually nope, it's unofficial yet but we know from class reps that it will be still 8k in PvP.
That would be a very strange decision. If they are 8k in PVP they should be 16k in PVE.
Why should they be? They want to nerf them because of PVE primarily.
They already said the check for the 40% cap will be after battle spirit is applied. So first battle spirit will half your tooltip shield, and after that it will check if that shield will be more than 40% of your max hp. If it is, it will be adjusted to the cap, but most builds won't notice it that much as the difference between cap and current shield values in PVP are not that big.
All in all, PVP shield size is going to be pretty much the same as it is on live with this change, shield stacking included, while in PVE we are effectively getting "battle spirit shields".
All this does is create balance issues between different classes and their primary forms of defense. If a Templar has an 8k heal in PVP and a Sorcerer has an 8k shield, why would it make sense for one of those skills to become 16k in PVE while the other one stays 8k?
Because one can only be used reactively and the other both reactively and proactively. ZOS wants us to be more reliant on healers and eliminate complete self sufficient DDs that "never die" in PVE. Nerfing heals aswell would be counter productive towards that end.
Also bear in mind resistances apply to shields now, which will make group support shields (bone shield, barrier, igneous shield) more valuable. I can't say how strong or weak our light armor shield/sorc shields will be now though.
Idk, still does not seem like the right approach to me, selectively applying or removing battle spirit from a key class ability.
It would make about as much sense to say Dragonknight Ardent Flame attacks will no longer be cut in half by Battle Spirit. Suddenly they would be way overpowered in PVP, and likely get quickly nerfed down to uselessness in PVE as a result.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »You think it’s going to be 8k in PVP? That seems optimistic. I’m expecting that to be in PVE, with Battle Spirit reducing it to 4k.
Actually nope, it's unofficial yet but we know from class reps that it will be still 8k in PvP.
That would be a very strange decision. If they are 8k in PVP they should be 16k in PVE.
Why should they be? They want to nerf them because of PVE primarily.
They already said the check for the 40% cap will be after battle spirit is applied. So first battle spirit will half your tooltip shield, and after that it will check if that shield will be more than 40% of your max hp. If it is, it will be adjusted to the cap, but most builds won't notice it that much as the difference between cap and current shield values in PVP are not that big.
All in all, PVP shield size is going to be pretty much the same as it is on live with this change, shield stacking included, while in PVE we are effectively getting "battle spirit shields".
All this does is create balance issues between different classes and their primary forms of defense. If a Templar has an 8k heal in PVP and a Sorcerer has an 8k shield, why would it make sense for one of those skills to become 16k in PVE while the other one stays 8k?
Because one can only be used reactively and the other both reactively and proactively. ZOS wants us to be more reliant on healers and eliminate complete self sufficient DDs that "never die" in PVE. Nerfing heals aswell would be counter productive towards that end.
Also bear in mind resistances apply to shields now, which will make group support shields (bone shield, barrier, igneous shield) more valuable. I can't say how strong or weak our light armor shield/sorc shields will be now though.
Idk, still does not seem like the right approach to me, selectively applying or removing battle spirit from a key class ability.
It would make about as much sense to say Dragonknight Ardent Flame attacks will no longer be cut in half by Battle Spirit. Suddenly they would be way overpowered in PVP, and likely get quickly nerfed down to uselessness in PVE as a result.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »You think it’s going to be 8k in PVP? That seems optimistic. I’m expecting that to be in PVE, with Battle Spirit reducing it to 4k.
Actually nope, it's unofficial yet but we know from class reps that it will be still 8k in PvP.
That would be a very strange decision. If they are 8k in PVP they should be 16k in PVE.
the cap is increased in pvp due to battle spirit adding 5k hp
avg magsorc hp in pvp is 20-21k, which means an 8k shield.