Is the 40% cap for individual shields on a char or is it a cap for all shields combined on a char?
Because the latter would make healingward absolutely useless.
but cap the total shield amount to 40% of your character’s maximum health.
The_Camper wrote: »It's almost as if the hardest mode of what supposed to be the hardest 4 man content is supposed to be run with a healer. with HoTs and AOE heals running over the group. wow #UNPLAYABLE
LOL. So nice of you to make assumptions. We do run with a dedicated healer--vBRP is not doable without a dedicated healer because if you think the DDs have it bad, the tanks have it worse--unpurgeable DoTs, nearly constant defiles, and attacks whose base damage are over 100K.
And you did notice that the damage came in over the course of 1.1s, right? Burst heals are reactive, but no healer can notice that health drop and react when the window is that short. HoTs are proactive, but you can't HoT through that level of damage. Shields can be used proactively and reactively. The shield cast time killed the usefulness of reactive shielding. The 40% cap kills the usefulness of proactive shielding, and proactive shielding is what would've worked in situations like this.kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Add more health one tank set would greatly add to your build. You can’t wear two DPS sets and a DPS Monster set and then complain that you are a glass canon.
So you think DDs should wear Plague Doctor? Funny thing is, the arena also punishes low DPS. It's almost as if they made content that demands both high survivability and the kind of damage output that you could only get from a glass cannon. I sure hope you aren't shocked by this, since this has been the hallmark of ZOS's content design for the past year or so.
Shields are not what killed the need for healers. It's content design where damage avoidance is the only viable game in town.
So I wanted to see how the new shields would compare to heals in a tank set+dmg set scenario.
Sets used (5/1/1 Heavy):
For magicka: 5 Impregnable+5 Spinner+2 Shadowrend
For stamina: 5 Fury+5 Legion+2 Troll King
Buffs:
Major Sorcery/Brutality, Infused weapon damage enchant
No CPs.
Health pool at 27 722 with Battle Spirit (shield cap=11 088) for magicka, 26 091 for stamina.
Honor The Dead 4475-6712(crit)
Hardened Ward: 5338
Harness Magicka: 4667
Soothing Spores: 4973-7459(crit)
Rally: up to 7031-10 547(crit)
So I wanted to see how the new shields would compare to heals in a tank set+dmg set scenario.
Sets used (5/1/1 Heavy):
For magicka: 5 Impregnable+5 Spinner+2 Shadowrend
For stamina: 5 Fury+5 Legion+2 Troll King
Buffs:
Major Sorcery/Brutality, Infused weapon damage enchant
No CPs.
Health pool at 27 722 with Battle Spirit (shield cap=11 088) for magicka, 26 091 for stamina.
Honor The Dead 4475-6712(crit)
Hardened Ward: 5338
Harness Magicka: 4667
Soothing Spores: 4973-7459(crit)
Rally: up to 7031-10 547(crit)
How much magic was that with? Trying to do some similar tests myself, but my ISP is playing up :-(
The goal is to make the survivability of magicka comparable to stamina. Sucks doesn't it?
As per @ZOS_GinaBruno 's comment starting the class reps meeting notes here (you're at home, stop posting stuff for work):
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/437982/class-reps-meeting-notes-september-25
The 1 second cast time will be removed from anullment and conjured ward in a future PTS build. In place, they're getting a different nerf.
While I'm sure there'll be a lot of discussion around whether the particular nerf they're getting is appropriate or not, I want to thank the team at ZOS for listening to the reasons why a cast time was specifically a bad way to nerf those particular skills, and taking that feedback.
So thanks @ZOS_RobGarrett and anyone else who was involved in going through that feedback, listening to it, and recognizing that it wasn't just people whining.
Seriously. A magicka version of Ravager/Fury would go a long way towards making heavy armour more viable for magicka builds. I’ve been trying heavy Innate Axiom and Clever Alchemist (which is the closest we can sort of get to Ravager) with a few different damage sets and it’s pitiful — even at 40k magicka. Sorcs depend so much on light armour for penetration, crit, and sustain. How is it fair that my stamina Warden hits like a truck in heavy with zero sustain problems, while my mag Sorc in heavy barely tickles the average player?
Anyway, I’m glad the cast times have been removed. The nerfs are still going to necessitate some serious changes, however.
So I wanted to see how the new shields would compare to heals in a tank set+dmg set scenario.
Sets used (5/1/1 Heavy):
For magicka: 5 Impregnable+5 Spinner+2 Shadowrend
For stamina: 5 Fury+5 Legion+2 Troll King
Buffs:
Major Sorcery/Brutality, Infused weapon damage enchant
No CPs.
Health pool at 27 722 with Battle Spirit (shield cap=11 088) for magicka, 26 091 for stamina.
Honor The Dead 4475-6712(crit)
Hardened Ward: 5338
Harness Magicka: 4667
Soothing Spores: 4973-7459(crit)
Rally: up to 7031-10 547(crit)
How much magic was that with? Trying to do some similar tests myself, but my ISP is playing up :-(
27 375 - with Argonian, Apprentice mundus & tri-stat everything (including Triune jewelry). Buffed spell damage stood at 3451.
Empty bars, so no Expert Mage or inner Light/Bound Aegis to buff stats.
I passed this along so other class reps can see and we can discuss. I agree with you, but there's a lot of factors here. First it's still in testing, things can change. Now I get you one shots suck. But was it really a one shot? The picture doesn't tell the whole story. What was the tank doing? Could you avoid the damage? How much of that could of been reduced say with Lord Warden, vyskoa, minor protection, or say bone surge...that shield that gives you a shield worth 100% + of health ? I agree you content design is a issue but my question was your situation truly impossible?
The_Camper wrote: »It's almost as if the hardest mode of what supposed to be the hardest 4 man content is supposed to be run with a healer. with HoTs and AOE heals running over the group. wow #UNPLAYABLE
LOL. So nice of you to make assumptions. We do run with a dedicated healer--vBRP is not doable without a dedicated healer because if you think the DDs have it bad, the tanks have it worse--unpurgeable DoTs, nearly constant defiles, and attacks whose base damage are over 100K.
And you did notice that the damage came in over the course of 1.1s, right? Burst heals are reactive, but no healer can notice that health drop and react when the window is that short. HoTs are proactive, but you can't HoT through that level of damage. Shields can be used proactively and reactively. The shield cast time killed the usefulness of reactive shielding. The 40% cap kills the usefulness of proactive shielding, and proactive shielding is what would've worked in situations like this.kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Add more health one tank set would greatly add to your build. You can’t wear two DPS sets and a DPS Monster set and then complain that you are a glass canon.
So you think DDs should wear Plague Doctor? Funny thing is, the arena also punishes low DPS. It's almost as if they made content that demands both high survivability and the kind of damage output that you could only get from a glass cannon. I sure hope you aren't shocked by this, since this has been the hallmark of ZOS's content design for the past year or so.
@Biro123
I actually think we're being given a chance here.
Granted it ENTIRELY depends on what the wording means. If it really comes down to players not being able to have more than 40% of their health as a damage shield on them at one time then numerous things need to be changed in this game with damage shields. If that's the case I'll post that at a later time. But something tells me that's not the case. Otherwise Barrier ultimate becomes 100% useless (it's not popular but you can't just negate an ultimate and not mention it).
If that's not the scenario.
Then resistances and crit resist may give damage shields some heft. It's not hard to build for 25k resistances and 1.8k crit resist on a light armor build (especially with Max magicka not being needed as much), and doing so will make a 10k damage shield be worth more than it is now, and we get the compromise of having to build into our defenses for a strong defense.
Monday when PTS servers go live will be a very important day.
The goal is to make the survivability of magicka comparable to stamina. Sucks doesn't it?
Is the 40% cap for individual shields on a char or is it a cap for all shields combined on a char?
Because the latter would make healingward absolutely useless.
The goal is to make the survivability of magicka comparable to stamina. Sucks doesn't it?
They are talking about PvE.
In PvP stamina survivability is already far superior. Wish they make survivability in pvp comparable.
And when making it comparable, give magicka defensive tools that don't require abilites (e.g. magicka block, dodge roll, sprint).
Nice try though!
Oh, and of course thanks also to the class reps, especially @Tasear who I saw being very active in gathering feedback on the shield cast time issue, for making the effort to really make sure the devs understood where the community was coming from on this.
I am happy everyone got their voices heard.
The_Camper wrote: »It's almost as if the hardest mode of what supposed to be the hardest 4 man content is supposed to be run with a healer. with HoTs and AOE heals running over the group. wow #UNPLAYABLE
LOL. So nice of you to make assumptions. We do run with a dedicated healer--vBRP is not doable without a dedicated healer because if you think the DDs have it bad, the tanks have it worse--unpurgeable DoTs, nearly constant defiles, and attacks whose base damage are over 100K.
And you did notice that the damage came in over the course of 1.1s, right? Burst heals are reactive, but no healer can notice that health drop and react when the window is that short. HoTs are proactive, but you can't HoT through that level of damage. Shields can be used proactively and reactively. The shield cast time killed the usefulness of reactive shielding. The 40% cap kills the usefulness of proactive shielding, and proactive shielding is what would've worked in situations like this.kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »Add more health one tank set would greatly add to your build. You can’t wear two DPS sets and a DPS Monster set and then complain that you are a glass canon.
So you think DDs should wear Plague Doctor? Funny thing is, the arena also punishes low DPS. It's almost as if they made content that demands both high survivability and the kind of damage output that you could only get from a glass cannon. I sure hope you aren't shocked by this, since this has been the hallmark of ZOS's content design for the past year or so.
So bascially you can't be satisfied in any way but staying the old way. Pretty narrow minded.
So I wanted to see how the new shields would compare to heals in a tank set+dmg set scenario.
Sets used (5/1/1 Heavy):
For magicka: 5 Impregnable+5 Spinner+2 Shadowrend
For stamina: 5 Fury+5 Legion+2 Troll King
Buffs:
Major Sorcery/Brutality, Infused weapon damage enchant
No CPs.
Health pool at 27 722 with Battle Spirit (shield cap=11 088) for magicka, 26 091 for stamina.
Honor The Dead 4475-6712(crit)
Hardened Ward: 5338
Harness Magicka: 4667
Soothing Spores: 4973-7459(crit)
Rally: up to 7031-10 547(crit)
How much magic was that with? Trying to do some similar tests myself, but my ISP is playing up :-(
27 375 - with Argonian, Apprentice mundus & tri-stat everything (including Triune jewelry). Buffed spell damage stood at 3451.
Empty bars, so no Expert Mage or inner Light/Bound Aegis to buff stats.
Hm, ok - so with 27.3k mag you got 5338. Was that in cyro?
I just did a little test(in PVE) - Argonian in heavy -
15.2k mag = 5751 hardened.
19k mag = 7406 hardened
22.1k mag = 8369 hardened.
(not boosted with CP)
All halved in cyro.
For comparison, the same character with its usual setup (19k mag, 27k stam) has a vigour tooltip of 10482. That is WITHOUT any of my usual (and significant) weapon-damage buffs - ie. major brut, continuous attack, clever alch, berserker glyph.
I guess hardened isn't worth running on my hybrid then!!! Perhaps if it also scaled from spell-damage (since fully-buffed its the same as my weapon-dmg)..?
Also worth mentioning that vigour is cheaper, the heal is permenant (ie doesn't disappear after 6 seconds like a ward does) - and can crit.. (but can be debuffed too)..
Conclusion? Imho Still will need around 40k+ mag for hardened to be useful - but also need 25k health AND resists AND impen. Will still also need a certain amount of stam for dodge/break-free too. Gonna be hard to make hardened worthwhile in a build. Not impossible, imho - but hard, and at quite a big damage cost.
@IAVITNI
Next patch seems like a lot of new sustain options will be available. You have magicka bone pirate, potential for 10% from empowering Ward, light armor recovery slight increase, reduced cost Poisons effectiveness, and a energy overload working seamlessly with our normal rotation (I'm assuming, I'm on Xbox and can't test it's fluidity). These all add a lot of sustain to our class.
Touching on Empowering Ward. I mentioned this because it would be ridiculous to run hardened when you'll be above the cap at what? 35-40k magicka (I haven't ran the numbers yet) And I would say Zos should then change hardened Ward but you see we still have Crystal blast so my hopes for that aren't high. Result being empowered becomes the go to morph and hardened becomes the obselete pink unicorn high health high magicka tank build.