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They listened! Annulment and Conjured Ward are back to insta cast
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mikemacon✭✭✭✭✭Whether we wanted it or not, we’ve stepped into a war with the devs on shields. Cast time vs. health cap. From what I can gather these are our current PTS options. But with the right feedback we can punch through these choices, get some better options, and get back to playing the game.1 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »adeptusminor wrote: »I don't know about any else, but I'm breathing a sigh of relief.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/437982/class-reps-meeting-notes-september-25
So whining and spamming threads = buff instead of nerf. Good job!
It's still a nerf, limiting shields to 40% is very significant.
And there's much more to it than "whining". If you checked pts, there's a lot of posts explaining why the cast time nerf was bad.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭talk about be careful what you wish for.only a few years left to go now....
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard0 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some stamina characters with bone shields will have better shields than magicka. Why still play magicka ?
I mean F'ING Christ. All you guys do is whine whine whine about it not being insta cast anymore. They change it back and make other changes to try and find a balance, and all you can do is WHINE more. Grow a pair, put on your big boy pants and deal with it. If this gets to you this much I don't see how you will ever make it through a career or life my god.4 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭adeptusminor wrote: »
In my opinion that is the crux of the problem. It seems like they come up with an idea for the content, not really considering how many of the classes will perform in said content, then after the players figure out the best way to tackle that content, they try to balance classes around that which to me seems backwards. I think instead of trying to balance characters to content, they should be creating and balancing the content to the classes.
Let's take vCR+3 for example. Did they even test it running 4 stam/4 mag? Because stam classes are more or less useless in that trial. Even in +0 stamina, because the AOE surrounding the side boss and the general mechanics of the trial, aren't as effective as mag/ranged, particularly nightblades with their offhealing from refreshing path and funnel health.
Same thing applies to vAS+2. Stam just aren't as effective or useful compared to magicka classes. That doesn't mean nightblades and their healing need to be nerfed because they are best for those two trials, it just means the people who created those two trials very likely had specific ideas for the content, then created the content without consideration of stam and other classes in general. Then you end up with players feeling punished because their class/build gets nerfed because it just so happens to be that they are overpowered for that specific content, while everyone else feels slighted because they aren't even welcome to the trial to begin with!
Again, I really think it's the crux of the problem. You don't see people running 6-7 nightblades in vMoL, vAA, vHRC, or vSO. It only happens in the latest content, and it's because the specific content, not because of the classes.
QFT.
As I said earlier, a big part of the problem--including class choice imbalance and healers feeling useless--comes from the dungeon team. Yet somehow the combat team are the ones who are trying to do something about it. Well, since the problem doesn't originate with the combat design, it means that any solution coming out of the combat team will be an ill-fitting clumsy solution that causes more problems than it fixes.
Stop trying to tweak combat design to counter bad content design.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information5 -
Hurtfan✭✭✭✭✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »Some stamina characters with bone shields will have better shields than magicka. Why still play magicka ?
I mean F'ING Christ. All you guys do is whine whine whine about it not being insta cast anymore. They change it back and make other changes to try and find a balance, and all you can do is WHINE more. Grow a pair, put on your big boy pants and deal with it. If this gets to you this much I don't see how you will ever make it through a career or life my god.
Don't read these posts, simple as that. And what are you doing? Let me answer that, whining.
There was push-back on the cast time but the devs felt they have to nerf shields one way or another...why? This really is a poor move imo...
I don't want to wear heavy armor in PvP.For the Pact!Keyboard not found, press any key to continue0 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
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no most do not and the ZOS philosphy of balance is horrible. all these guys now claiming magica is ruined dont realize Stam PVE dps is sub par to magica and it always has been. part of the issue is ZOS in ability to create content that does not rely on a DPS meta as its foundation. then they go and balance classes and abilites of PVP dueling lol1 -
Imperial_Voice✭✭✭✭✭
✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »Some stamina characters with bone shields will have better shields than magicka. Why still play magicka ?
I mean F'ING Christ. All you guys do is whine whine whine about it not being insta cast anymore. They change it back and make other changes to try and find a balance, and all you can do is WHINE more. Grow a pair, put on your big boy pants and deal with it. If this gets to you this much I don't see how you will ever make it through a career or life my god.
I wish i could give you an awesome and an agree at the same time.1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭adeptusminor wrote: »I don't know about any else, but I'm breathing a sigh of relief.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/437982/class-reps-meeting-notes-september-25ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »... In one of the upcoming PTS patches, Annulment and Conjured Ward will now be instant-cast abilities that scale off your maximum Magicka (as they do on live currently), but cap the total shield amount to 40% of your character’s maximum health. Our goal with the damage shield changes has been to address the fact that you can create builds that maximize damage while ignoring defense. We think it’s great some players want to play like a glass cannon, but those builds should have tradeoffs in reduced survivability. By limiting damage shield strength on max health, it makes the health stat much more attractive than it was previously for damage shield users.
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Scaling with Magicka but capped by Health anyway?
Would honestly prefer scaling with Health to be more in line with Templar and Dragonknight
do comprehend the logic behind trying to limit the maximum shield capacity when scaling off the same stat as damage tho
that does nothing to really poke at the underlying issues with everyone also having healing skills that increase with damage stats, but suppose baby steps are something
with the scaling still being Magicka based, and Annulment still being locked behind Light Armour, am not certain my Orc Sorc Tank will use this, and that seems to be my one Sorc build that meshes with ZOS' design philosophy regarding survivability and damage output
a resounding "meh" from me"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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CompM4s✭✭✭✭✭Up recovery
Cast more often in rotation
Avoid burst mechanics ie. dodge roll/ block
Will adapt just fine0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭*sigh*
Yeah, the 1 second cast time doesn't bother me. Dramatically weakening my shields to 40% of max health (and I run more health on my damage dealers than most folks do)? Urgh. I'll withhold judgement because I can't PTS and shields now get resistance (and my damage dealers have more of that than most folks do as well), but I'm not optimistic about it. I was indifferent to adding a 1 second cast time. This? Not a fan.0 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭DMuehlhausen wrote: »Some stamina characters with bone shields will have better shields than magicka. Why still play magicka ?
I mean F'ING Christ. All you guys do is whine whine whine about it not being insta cast anymore. They change it back and make other changes to try and find a balance, and all you can do is WHINE more. Grow a pair, put on your big boy pants and deal with it. If this gets to you this much I don't see how you will ever make it through a career or life my god.
I wish ZOS would take a harder stance on locking these threads that appear outside the PTS section. Posts like this are being amazingly ignorant of the fact that we the players are part of the testing and development process, and ZOS actually wants our feedback on topics like this. But I also understand that people who are not interested in the PTS changes are being bombarded by threads and posts about the PTS changes in other sections of the forum.[DC/NA]2 -
Wifeaggro13✭✭✭✭✭
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he does but it affected PVP builds and those were the people that spoke the loudest. ZOS can claim its for PVE all they want . it was the same with DK back in 2014 and early 2015 when the banner build ruled the world in light armor. nothing was really wrong with talons and the build overperformed because of the broken state of light armor and passives. but instead of fixing light armor they gutted the DKS unique abilities and now other classes became the flavor of the month in light armor. see ZOS will never fix the problem they only fix the symptoms. just like an inexperienced doctor. for the last 3 years, they have been making their balance changes off PVP issues it does not surprise me they said it was due to PVE to cover their tracks from the PVP crowd it definitely affects them more than the PVE crowd.Edited by Wifeaggro13 on September 27, 2018 2:55PM0 -
ItsNebula✭✭✭✭✭ZOS is the biggest joke of a company I have ever seen.
Sometimes I wonder why I even still play the game... maybe because it’s the only “good” MMO out right now with a decent player base.1 -
VixxVexx✭✭✭✭✭(In regards to PvE)
Except that shields now have resistances so the effective health isn't as low as some of you make it out to be?
With some points into bastion you can get a 8-9k shield easily. Most magicka toons have about 20% spell&armor resistances so that would be almost 10k effective health. Also, light armor focus and spell shield are now actually useful.
Worst case scenario, we put a little more health in our builds. It's not like 20k health on a dps is unheard of. There's so many ways to get up to 20k health even with regen food: attributes, prismatics, triune, valkyn, ... list goes on.0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Unofficial news thanks to Kena:
- 40% hp is the limit both in PvP and PvE meaning battle spirit won't affect this change.
- Healing ward is not affected by this change
- Judging by the semantics used by Gina, it's 40% per shield."We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available."
— They always claim they’re “investigating” the causes, but in reality they’re just waiting until the PC EU players go to bed. Once that happens, you can suddenly log in again and they happily mark the issue as Fixed.1 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭They need to at least remove the battle spirit halving of shields if theyre going to keep this. Lets not forget about the other initial nerf which is allowing them to be crit against.0 -
grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Mag sorc's are lower end in open world pvp and didn't need a nerf.
Lower end in open world? Is there such a thing?
Yes. Go on live right now. Play a mag sorc0 -
albesca✭✭✭✭✭Shouldn't lesser numbers be able to outplay larger numbers though? Shouldn't skill and tactic be a factor in mmos?
Wouldn't it be boring if raw numbers where the only thing deciding win or loss in PvP?
Yes, yes and yes, but to a certain extent: while I think that 1v3 (where the latter are at least aware of the way combat works in ESO) should be reasonably doable with good positioning and careful resources management, 1v5-6 should be really hard and 1v10 and beyond (unless the latter are totally clueless, and anyway it shouldn't be easy) simply impossible; I'm no expert but I'm not a faceless mook to your action movie hero either.The main issue with outnumbered PvP or solo'ing is that certain class&builds do it much better than others. Fact that it's possible isn't a problem, as long as it's within reasons. Obviously no class should be able to make a build that allows them to wipe out half a raid solo, regardless of skill and tactics.
Agreed.
I wrote my post because I have the feeling that "balanced" to some forum dwellers means "I'm good so I should be able to fend off a group (no matter how large) of less experienced players".PC EU
Khajiit has no time for you1 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Drummerx04 wrote: »So the nerfs are again aimed primarily at making healers feel more useful in PvE... Well what if the *** healer dies in end game content? I guess we'll all just go ahead and wipe because we can't deal with the incoming damage long enough to rez the healer.
And before you simply tell me to rez the healers faster, there are times when the incoming damage would simply one shot you if you don't break off the rez... and this will sometimes happen for significant swaths of time. Oh and vCR will literally kill you for rezzing if you try it immediately.
What if a healer dies in vCR +3 execute? 85% healing debuff, 40% health shields with massive incoming damage. Guess we'll wipe.
@ZOS_Wrobel you are making healers not only more useful but they will be under so much pressure to just HEAL people now. I'm really predicting a fair bit of hostility towards healers in PvE now.
(Btw, stam gets vigor, dual wield self heals, passive mitigation with blade cloak (and now Evasion), and enough stamina to dodge or block more often to avoid big or chained attacks)
It's about F* time this happened. Right now any healer that builds for healing power and actively tries to do just that is frowned upon or attacked straight up front. The meta has shifted so far off it's course that alot of people see healers only as a support class that also occasionally throw out an (unnecessary) heal in all but the hardest endgame content.
Daily I see people that even don't complaint or care if they don't get their heals but they scream hell if that healer missed 1 energy orb or hasn't managed to collect his olorime/spc dps buff gear yet or chose to use a 30% damage protection ultimate over warhorn...
Hopefully these changes (and many other changes to follow) will help to bring back the long-lost original meta since beta of: "look at that healer! He's primarily focused on topping our health bars up nonstop and saving our squishy asses preventing 1-shots. He's doing a good job, thanks to him I live to actually be able to dps instead of lie dead on the floor nonstop !"
now go ahead and rage at me...Edited by profundidob16_ESO on September 27, 2018 4:17PM2
