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Piercing mark, reconsider this nerf.
Arthalion1
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I was very surprised to read in the patch notes that the stealth detection element of piercing mark is being reduced from 30 seconds to 5 seconds.
There are several reasons why I consider this change to be unwarranted:
1. From my experience (as a nightblade), I would not say this skill is overly utilised and certainly won't be after this patch.
2. Cloak is one of the most complained about skills in the game, so to essentially remove the only hard counter seems like an odd decision- I appreciate it is not being removed, but given the cost of the ability it cannot be justified for a 5 second duration.
3. Very few nightblades are using this ability for major breach, so it will be redundant. We have surprise attack for major breach.
4. Does anyone even complain about this ability? Only the person using mark can see the target. How was it considered overpowered?
5. Finally, it is a huge reduction. I could accept say 15 seconds, but 5 seconds really is overkill.
Please keep in mind this is coming from someone who has mainly played nightblade from launch.
Am I missing something?
There are several reasons why I consider this change to be unwarranted:
1. From my experience (as a nightblade), I would not say this skill is overly utilised and certainly won't be after this patch.
2. Cloak is one of the most complained about skills in the game, so to essentially remove the only hard counter seems like an odd decision- I appreciate it is not being removed, but given the cost of the ability it cannot be justified for a 5 second duration.
3. Very few nightblades are using this ability for major breach, so it will be redundant. We have surprise attack for major breach.
4. Does anyone even complain about this ability? Only the person using mark can see the target. How was it considered overpowered?
5. Finally, it is a huge reduction. I could accept say 15 seconds, but 5 seconds really is overkill.
Please keep in mind this is coming from someone who has mainly played nightblade from launch.
Am I missing something?
30
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Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As someone who plays a Nightblade a lot, this change was silly...Stealth is pretty OP as it is.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos19 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭For a skill I very rarely see used, the change seems a bit pointless, especially as cloak is one of the most complained about skills. It's only usefull against other nb's really and so to smash it with the nerf hammer will make the skill completly unused even by the few that do currently use it.2 -
CeeJonesy✭✭✭its a skill spammed by zerglings who hide in a group of healers for the most part. nothing will change it will still be spammed or they will swap to flares
it's not the only counter. like I said there are flares. there's detect pots. aoe damage breaks stealth (caltrops). you can fear someone out of stealth. mark still works. also if you are on a nb and need more than 5 seconds to burst another nb you have put mark on then you need to learn the class a bit.PC EU | XBOX EU21 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭its a skill spammed by zerglings who hide in a group of healers for the most part. nothing will change it will still be spammed or they will swap to flares
it's not the only counter. like I said there are flares. there's detect pots. aoe damage breaks stealth (caltrops). you can fear someone out of stealth. mark still works. also if you are on a nb and need more than 5 seconds to burst another nb you have put mark on then you need to learn the class a bit.
yea but that's not the point of this thread... the point is they are nerfing a skill that is hardly used by any one, and proably just to satisfy others who have had nerfs to thier classes. I play mostly a templar so I wouldn't say I'm biased in this post.0 -
Arthalion1✭✭✭its a skill spammed by zerglings who hide in a group of healers for the most part. nothing will change it will still be spammed or they will swap to flares
it's not the only counter. like I said there are flares. there's detect pots. aoe damage breaks stealth (caltrops). you can fear someone out of stealth. mark still works. also if you are on a nb and need more than 5 seconds to burst another nb you have put mark on then you need to learn the class a bit.
I was expecting some replies of this nature. I am guessing you are a nb and do not like being marked. I don't either, but it is the only reliable counter and should remain.
You will know full well that with the nb movement speed and dodge roll we can easily dodge roll and cloak away from aoes and be gone in a flash.
I can assure you I am a very competent nb, but do feel this is not a balanced change.3 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭Deleting a nightblade's primary class defense for 30 seconds by pressing one button with no way to counter it beyond slotting an extremely expensive skill they can only get a few uses out of was totally unbalanced. It's true that Cloak is...a bit wonky on balance still, but this is a nice step in the right direction.
Makring a NB still makes 'em suffer, but it's no longer a death sentence. And you can still maintain it easily enough.9 -
Arthalion1✭✭✭As stated in my post, I would accept 15, possibly 10 seconds but 5 seconds isn't balanced and I would no longer slot this ability. Keep in my mind I am a nb and do get marked.4
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Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭Arthalion1 wrote: »As stated in my post, I would accept 15, possibly 10 seconds but 5 seconds isn't balanced and I would no longer slot this ability. Keep in my mind I am a nb and do get marked.
Maybe they could stand to increase the duration a bit if purging (any purge - not just the alliance war skill) was a bit more accessible?0 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭I would say it's just keeping up with the trend of removing any and all counters to stamNB.
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SosRuvaak✭✭✭✭✭just gonna have more unstoppable tanks and magica night blades from this ***.For the Pact!
~Sump Scales~
Lusty Argonian Nightblade
~Baron Humbert von Gikkingen~
Smokes-His-Greens
~Ruvaak~1 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭HOW ABOUT THIS.
Revert the change but make the invis portion purgeable first. So stupid when i slot purge its costs me 10k magicka to get rid of this 30 seconds mark only to have it reapplied for 2.5k magicka.
The change that went through has completely alleviated this issue though... since you just wait out the mark.
Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on September 25, 2018 9:31AMPS4 NA DC1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Arthalion1 wrote: »I was very surprised to read in the patch notes that the stealth detection element of piercing mark is being reduced from 30 seconds to 5 seconds.
There are several reasons why I consider this change to be unwarranted:
1. From my experience (as a nightblade), I would not say this skill is overly utilised and certainly won't be after this patch.
2. Cloak is one of the most complained about skills in the game, so to essentially remove the only hard counter seems like an odd decision- I appreciate it is not being removed, but given the cost of the ability it cannot be justified for a 5 second duration.
3. Very few nightblades are using this ability for major breach, so it will be redundant. We have surprise attack for major breach.
4. Does anyone even complain about this ability? Only the person using mark can see the target. How was it considered overpowered?
5. Finally, it is a huge reduction. I could accept say 15 seconds, but 5 seconds really is overkill.
Please keep in mind this is coming from someone who has mainly played nightblade from launch.
Am I missing something?
This isn't a soft counter like things should be this is a hard counter.
This is a 'use this skill and negate your class defence skill for 30s from 60m away' skill
Use one of the many counters to cloak, there are plenty. This skill shouldn't be a slot it and counter a class completely. Now it's a soft counter.
Loads of people use this skill, usually the zergings nb's surrounds by 20 people who then proceed to chase down the 1 nb across the map.Edited by leepalmer95 on September 25, 2018 9:33AMPS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...6 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭30 is too long your right, but I very rarely see nb's using this skill, it's very niche skill I think. 15 would be reasonable with maybe a 18 second cool down so at least it can't be reapplied instantly .0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Arthalion1 wrote: »
3. Very few nightblades are using this ability for major breach, so it will be redundant. We have surprise attack for major breach.
Next up: SA loses major breach
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭30 is too long your right, but I very rarely see nb's using this skill, it's very niche skill I think. 15 would be reasonable with maybe a 18 second cool down so at least it can't be reapplied instantly .
Lots of people use this skill?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Xeniph✭✭✭✭✭I am sad to see this skill changed. It was one of my gankers favorite Troll tools.
Quite often I would mark NB's in stealth just to watch them run...and run...and run!
However, I welcome the change from a ganking perspective. I have never died from being revealed by magelight and it's the same duration so I guess the only fear now is detect pots
Here since Beta.
Characters: All of them, both Stamina and Magicka.2 -
Leeched✭✭✭✭✭They should just put Mark into the Fighters Guild skill line so everyone can use it (and thats coming from someone who has 6 NBs)(DC) Grimsley - MagSorc || Denderan - StamPlar || Phaedon - StamBlade || Oberon - MagPlar || Leontes - StamSorc || Saroush - MagDk || Culan - StamDen || Dullahan - StamDk
Ruvik - MagBlade || Tivil - MagDen || Juval - MagNecro || Gargrave - StamNecro
(EP) Vicio - MagBlade || Clavigo - MagPlar || Peritas - MagDen || Fedrak - MagSorc
(AD) Maledicto - MagBlade || Voriak - StamBlade
PC EU || Currently CP 1500+
Azura's Star Sotha Sil
I serve bombs ღ - retired3 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭just gonna have more unstoppable tanks and magica night blades from this ***.
The more damage rises and the less "counters" to things like cloak, the more people will be pushed to super-tank builds. I imagine next patch will either be either all super-tanks or NBs. I'm honestly quite surprised it hasn't already happened this patch.0 -
cheemers✭✭✭✭✭No other skill in the game completely disables a class's main defense tool for 30s per cast. There is no 30s silence or defile. With a 5s duration the caster can keep mark on as long as they maintain line of sight at least every 5s, but still allows some counterplay for the marked nb without having to resort to the ridiculously expensive purge.
You also make it sound like mark is the only tool to catch nbs which is frankly not true. If a stamsorc gets into melee range the nb is not going to be cloaking again. With basically every stam class running steel tornado, cloak gets very easily negated. And a stam nb only has enough magicka to cast cloak max 3-4 times; it is very easy to frustrate these casts and keep them out in the open.
This comes from both a nb player (both stam and mag) but also an avid and effective nb hunter. They are an easy first priority target even without an uncounterable 30s mark.Youtube channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCDQ7FrJ0AjMt2auffLEf_Pw
PS4 EU - 18 characters, all DC3 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well 30s of mark is like using Shieldbreaker Vs sorc. Easy and cheesy, especially when you run in zerg and mark single NB so you can pull him out of stealth till zerg kills him. I'm just not sure how I feel about 5s now. On one side skill has literally 50m of range and can be reapplied pretty easy and still can be used by zerg surfers, on the other hand 5s is very short window to burst someone down. Well I guess detection pots are now best tool to fight NBs."We are currently investigating connection issues some players are having on the European megaservers. We will update as new information becomes available."
— They always claim they’re “investigating” the causes, but in reality they’re just waiting until the PC EU players go to bed. Once that happens, you can suddenly log in again and they happily mark the issue as Fixed.0 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
hmm ..I can't remember the last I was marked to be fair in pvp or bg0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Arthalion1 wrote: »its a skill spammed by zerglings who hide in a group of healers for the most part. nothing will change it will still be spammed or they will swap to flares
it's not the only counter. like I said there are flares. there's detect pots. aoe damage breaks stealth (caltrops). you can fear someone out of stealth. mark still works. also if you are on a nb and need more than 5 seconds to burst another nb you have put mark on then you need to learn the class a bit.
I was expecting some replies of this nature. I am guessing you are a nb and do not like being marked. I don't either, but it is the only reliable counter and should remain.
You will know full well that with the nb movement speed and dodge roll we can easily dodge roll and cloak away from aoes and be gone in a flash.
I can assure you I am a very competent nb, but do feel this is not a balanced change.
I don't think I have ever seen any NB revealed by a Flare in my entire gameplay experience in ESO. I can't believe people actually suggest this skill as some kind of NB counter. It sure is funny (to me and I am sure to the NB watching from a safe distance) watching people spam this skill all over in a futile attempt to reveal the stealthier.
I too was rather surprised that Mark was even on ZoS's radar. How did that skill even get noticed? Did the class rep complain about it? No one else was.
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Arthalion1✭✭✭Firstly, thank you for all the replies and interest. It is great to see this properly debated.
To those arguing this is ability is too harsh against nbs, I dont agree, but can see your point.
I have had three max level nbs. I don't slot mark on my magicka nb, but do on stamina back bar. After this change, the ability would have to go. Putting aside the zerglings using this in zergs to stop gankers (which is actually a fair use - I've been a ganker, but if you want to have your fun then groups are going to come after you for dropping members), this ability is a great tool for forcing a nb to engage. Especially if it is a group of 2 or 3 nbs in small man fights. If it lasts 5 seconds it's not usable. If it lasts 15 or possibly 10 seconds it retains its value.
I would also caution that if cloak is seen as even more op, which it will after this patch, then ZoS will eventually take action and we all know they like to use a chainsaw to cut toast, so cloak will take the nerf hammer. There needs to be counters.1 -
Pastas✭✭✭I like this nerfbuff, don't change it please.
WARNINGThis post may Include horrible gramatical and orthographic errorsRead on your own riskAD
Dar'foo Stamblade Zorg-gro-Wurf DK tank Far-Datxo Templar healer Valmir Spellius Magsorc
Randolf Omberic Magblade Felien Golas Magdk Faenor Oakwood Stamplar Sader Dustorm Stamsorc
EP
Do'Ragash Stamdk Caius Grachus Stamden Dalyne Narus Magplar
DC
Melkar Spellius MagdenPC EU0 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
hmm ..I can't remember the last I was marked to be fair in pvp or bgArthalion1 wrote: »Firstly, thank you for all the replies and interest. It is great to see this properly debated.
To those arguing this is ability is too harsh against nbs, I dont agree, but can see your point.
I have had three max level nbs. I don't slot mark on my magicka nb, but do on stamina back bar. After this change, the ability would have to go. Putting aside the zerglings using this in zergs to stop gankers (which is actually a fair use - I've been a ganker, but if you want to have your fun then groups are going to come after you for dropping members), this ability is a great tool for forcing a nb to engage. Especially if it is a group of 2 or 3 nbs in small man fights. If it lasts 5 seconds it's not usable. If it lasts 15 or possibly 10 seconds it retains its value.
I would also caution that if cloak is seen as even more op, which it will after this patch, then ZoS will eventually take action and we all know they like to use a chainsaw to cut toast, so cloak will take the nerf hammer. There needs to be counters.
^^ This is true, I can foresee this too if cloak counters are steadily removed1 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭imo it was a niche skill that only effected 1 class and nobody has ever moaned about it so it's a very strange nerf that wasn't asked for.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_RichLambert any comment as to why this has happened pleaseEdited by Syiccal on September 25, 2018 12:46PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Arthalion1 wrote: »I was very surprised to read in the patch notes that the stealth detection element of piercing mark is being reduced from 30 seconds to 5 seconds.
There are several reasons why I consider this change to be unwarranted:
1. From my experience (as a nightblade), I would not say this skill is overly utilised and certainly won't be after this patch.
There's hardly a fight in Cyrodiil where I don't get Piercing Marked. Even in Battlegrounds it is extremely common. Are you being serious right now?Arthalion1 wrote: »2. Cloak is one of the most complained about skills in the game, so to essentially remove the only hard counter seems like an odd decision- I appreciate it is not being removed, but given the cost of the ability it cannot be justified for a 5 second duration.
Yes, it is. But not only because it's hard for some builds to counter, but also because it's incredibly useless in many situations. Many of those situations involve things such as:- AoEs (spin2win, blockade, caltrops etc etc)
- Delayed burst (Curse, POTL/Purifying Light)
- Detection Potions/Poisons (Piercing Mark is far from being the only "hardcounter" to cloak)
Arthalion1 wrote: »3. Very few nightblades are using this ability for major breach, so it will be redundant. We have surprise attack for major breach.
Bow builds use it for Major Fracture (that's the physical resistance reducing debuff), Magicka NBs use it for Major Breach.
I'd say it's more common than not to see a magicka NB use the ability, usually from behind 15 other players just so they can ruin your gameplay experience entirely by spamming light attacks.Arthalion1 wrote: »4. Does anyone even complain about this ability? Only the person using mark can see the target. How was it considered overpowered?
A skill removing an entire playstyle from the game for 30 seconds isn't overpowered? A skill that for a NB basically means "run behind keep walls and wait 30 seconds"? (Very engaging gameplay btw /s).
You're the first person I hear defending this skill - it's been complained a lot about on the NB Discord, on forums and on streams of people who actually play NB on a competitive level.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/431189/class-reps-meeting-notes-august-16/p1Nightblades:
Piercing Mark is too hard of a counter for stealth gameplay
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/418184/class-reps-meeting-notes-june-7/p1Nightblades
The Cloak-Detect play-counterplay is too extreme. Either cloak is *really* strong if a player can disappear with impunity or is *really* weak when the player can not disappear at all and their main skill feels useless. Need more of a middle ground.Arthalion1 wrote: »5. Finally, it is a huge reduction. I could accept say 15 seconds, but 5 seconds really is overkill.
Yes, on that I agree - 10-12s would be more ideal for the skill to be more worth casting, but I'm not going to nitpick about something that makes NB more enjoyable to play.Arthalion1 wrote: »Please keep in mind this is coming from someone who has mainly played nightblade from launch.
Am I missing something?
Yes.
And based on this thread I guess you're not playing a stealth oriented NB (and if you are, it's gotta be a magicka NB with Purge slotted who uses Piercing Mark on other NBs).
Piercing Mark is the most disgusting, toxicity evoking skill in the game and players who Xv1 with it deserve every tbag/other type of BM they get.Edited by DDuke on September 25, 2018 1:04PM2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tbf all changes that involves nightblades in this game are half baked. Developer have real issues with balancing stealth playstyle and recognizing that magblade ≠ stamblade.
Edited by Juhasow on September 25, 2018 12:57PM1
