Piercing mark, reconsider this nerf.

Arthalion1

The funny thing is all of the hate is from nightblades, who don't like being marked and therefore the user is a 'zergling' or 'noob'.

I don't like being marked either, but I do think it's fair that I can be marked, objectively.

If you slot mark, it levels the playing field. If it's causing you that many issues, then slot it?

As much as you protest, you aren't slotting it because you're above slotting it. You aren't slotting it because you think something else is better, but it irritates you that others choose to slot it...

Arkangeloski

Arthalion1 wrote: »

The funny thing is all of the hate is from nightblades, who don't like being marked and therefore the user is a 'zergling' or 'noob'.

I don't like being marked either, but I do think it's fair that I can be marked, objectively.

If you slot mark, it levels the playing field. If it's causing you that many issues, then slot it?

As much as you protest, you aren't slotting it because you're above slotting it. You aren't slotting it because you think something else is better, but it irritates you that others choose to slot it...

No it is not limited to newer players a lot of people use it.

Valrien

Is the same guy going on about hard counters vs. soft counters again?

Hard counters are good for the game. Each class should have a counter and a strength, like rock paper scissors.

Fur_like_snow

I’m okay with this nerf buff. It’s obvious what class ZoS plays by the patch notes.

Rianai

Arthalion1 wrote: »

The funny thing is all of the hate is from nightblades, who don't like being marked and therefore the user is a 'zergling' or 'noob'.

I don't like being marked either, but I do think it's fair that I can be marked, objectively.

If you slot mark, it levels the playing field. If it's causing you that many issues, then slot it?

As much as you protest, you aren't slotting it because you're above slotting it. You aren't slotting it because you think something else is better, but it irritates you that others choose to slot it...

Using Mark doesn't make someone a zergling, but most of the time the Mark user IS one.
I used Mark for a while, mainly to counter other markblades and on melee magblade also for the resistance debuff, but it doesn't really work that well, because most markblades are marking me from stealth and only attack if their friends show up to zerg me down. There is zero counterplay to this other than trying to run away before getting outnumbered. And Ele Drain is simply so much better against anything that is not a NB, and even against other NBs i usually don't really need mark, so by slotting this skill i'm basically crippling myself in many encounters, which isn't really something i can afford to do as solo player. Meanwhile for a zergling it doesn't matter, if he uses skills that aren't optimal in every scenario, because he is getting carried by numbers anyway.

ManDraKE

Rianai wrote: »

Using Mark doesn't make someone a zergling, but most of the time the Mark user IS one.

If you are a stamblade with mark, you are a zergling or a sniper ganker. In any other case mark target is just a waste of slot for a stamblade. I can understand the use of mark in a magblade for the major resistences debuff, but in that case the nerf to mark won't make them drop the skill of their bars, because the debuff duration was left untouch

Anyone complaining about the change to mark target is a straight zergling. If you are using it just for counter cloak, 5 seconds is more than enought, any competent player will pull his offensive combo in 2-3 seconds at most.

Being able to negate an entire class main defense for 15 seconds is absurd, specially when you can simply re-apply mark every 5 seconds. There is no reason for a hard counter to have a 100% uptime, and even with this nerf pressing 1 button every 5 seconds is not that hard, specially when you can do it from stealth withouth being revelead lol

Arthalion1

@Rianai Ok. Fair enough, if it doesn't suit you, but objectively, do you think 5s is a balanced nerf?

waitwhat

I'm really worried that this is a huge, secret buff to cloak, and that this change is a prelude to a nerf to cloak that is congealing in the minds of the developers.

Arthalion1

waitwhat wrote: »

I'm really worried that this is a huge, secret buff to cloak, and that this change is a prelude to a nerf to cloak that is congealing in the minds of the developers.

Exactly my concerns and what the people moaning about mark seem to have no understanding of.

Brrrofski

It's a zegling skill, so I'm glad it's getting nerfed.

If you play solo or in a small group, you can't afford to slot this skill.

Arthalion1

Brrrofski wrote: »

It's a zegling skill, so I'm glad it's getting nerfed.

If you play solo or in a small group, you can't afford to slot this skill.

I do play solo and small man and have almost always slotted this skill, so not true. But thank you for confirming that is not used because people prefer other abilities, not because it's too dirty to possibly use

waitwhat

Arthalion1 wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

I'm really worried that this is a huge, secret buff to cloak, and that this change is a prelude to a nerf to cloak that is congealing in the minds of the developers.

Exactly my concerns and what the people moaning about mark seem to have no understanding of.

Arthalion1 wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

I'm really worried that this is a huge, secret buff to cloak, and that this change is a prelude to a nerf to cloak that is congealing in the minds of the developers.

Exactly my concerns and what the people moaning about mark seem to have no understanding of.

Everyone, nightblades (particularly magblades) are up next on the PvP and PvE chopping block once ZOS is done with sorcs. Cloak will be next after shields, if not this patch then the next. We have to be part of the conversation now, productively, or the axe will hit us just as hard as it hit them.

We need to lessen, not reverse, this nerf to mark, and call for duration increases to magelight and hunter so that extended reveals are not exclusive to the class with cloak. Perhaps ZOS has decided that extended reveals for one class are a problem. We most likely cannot convince them it isn't a problem, but we can give them other solutions before they go forward and then look at what's left.

Arthalion1

@waitwhat Absolutely agree my friend. I've suggested 10-15 second duration and would welcome increases to other detection tools.

If shield can be nerfed like it has been, then cloak can be too and you better believe it's up there with shield spammers.

Let's not lose cloak, let make it fair by keeping and improving the counters. Let's face it, it's not hard to stay in cloak. Particularly with shadow image. Even without it, dodge roll, forward momentum and general mobility means we can retreat too cloak quite easily.

WreckfulAbandon

30 sec --> 5 sec is a bit ridiculous. 10-15 seconds is fine.

Rianai

Arthalion1 wrote: »

@Rianai Ok. Fair enough, if it doesn't suit you, but objectively, do you think 5s is a balanced nerf?

Hard to tell without testing. Compared to detect pots, which are the most balanced cloak counter imo, mark has much higher range and it is spammable and usable on demand (unlike pots), so the shorter duration seems fair. Maybe up to 10s would be ok, but any longer definitely not. It will now require good timing and more skill to use successfully, but then it will still work as cloak counter i think. If i would still play melee magblade, i would definitely give it a try even after the nerf.

Stibbons

Mark the target with 5 seconds will completely unused if it goes live. Well you can pick something else to bar.

Irylia

Nb’s up in arms about a nb change that counters their own class. Even they can understand how strong cloak is yet we aren’t seeing a hard nerf to the skill.

Streak cost increase on cloak every 5 seconds of re cast. Or it doesn’t last as long/nullifies mag gen like mist.

Tbh just makes my 1v1 stamblade that much stronger in cyro so idc

Syiccal

Stibbons wrote: »

Mark the target with 5 seconds will completely unused if it goes live. Well you can pick something else to bar.

in my experience it's barley used any ways. Just look at all the nb build vids on you tube no-one is using it as they have other skills that offer more utility etc. Mark is a niche skill to counter 1 class only and shouldn't have even been on the radar for a nerf. I can't remeber ever seing or hearing any one complain about it.
I play a stam blade and will agree 30 seconds is to long but 5 is just pointless and will be unused by even the few that currently do use it. 10 - 15 is a more reasonable middle ground imo.
if Nbs want this skill nerfed to 5 seconds then they really need to open thier eyes to the bigger picture and look at what is happening to shields due to lack of counters

Xeniph

ManDraKE wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Using Mark doesn't make someone a zergling, but most of the time the Mark user IS one.

If you are a stamblade with mark, you are a zergling or a sniper ganker. In any other case mark target is just a waste of slot for a stamblade. I can understand the use of mark in a magblade for the major resistences debuff, but in that case the nerf to mark won't make them drop the skill of their bars, because the debuff duration was left untouch

Anyone complaining about the change to mark target is a straight zergling. If you are using it just for counter cloak, 5 seconds is more than enought, any competent player will pull his offensive combo in 2-3 seconds at most.

Being able to negate an entire class main defense for 15 seconds is absurd, specially when you can simply re-apply mark every 5 seconds. There is no reason for a hard counter to have a 100% uptime, and even with this nerf pressing 1 button every 5 seconds is not that hard, specially when you can do it from stealth withouth being revelead lol

I have to disagree with this, wholeheartedly.

I'd say 80% of my mark use is NOT to attack the marked target but to control my engagement conditions.As a SOLO player, or being a nb in general, the power of this class is to be able to pick and choose your targets. Mark compliments this playstyle very well as is.

Also, being a solo gankblade for years now, I have been marked many times and I have NO issue with the skill. I feel it's my own damn fault for being cought out in the open.

It will be useless with a 5 second reveal timer, period. For the purpose of hunting NB's


However, it's comments like this that us mark users get in hate tells all day, so at least we know where the nerf is comming from :P

In the end though we will all adapt.

ManDraKE

Xeniph wrote: »

I'd say 80% of my mark use is NOT to attack the marked target but to control my engagement conditions.As a SOLO player, or being a nb in general, the power of this class is to be able to pick and choose your targets. Mark compliments this playstyle very well as is.

uh? how marking the target helps you in your "engagement conditions"? The major fracture debuffs is usless on a stamblade since is already present in surprise attack and the visual effect of mark target is pointless, you can just tab target
The ethernal duration of cloak counter effect in mark target is just there to help zerglings, there is no other practical use.

Irylia wrote: »

Streak cost increase on cloak every 5 seconds of re cast. Or it doesn’t last as long/nullifies mag gen like mist.

If i recall correctly, you complained in sorcs threats about streak having a cost increase on recast, and now you ask for the same crap in cloak? What next? asking for cloak to have a cast time like ward? lol. I can understand you being *** off by the changes to sorcs, but is not the nighblades fault lol, take it on zos.

If they want to make adjustments to cloak, we can have that dicussion, but market target is not there to provide a fair counter to cloak, is just there to ruin the life of every single nb that is using cloak to avoid getting zerg down, and is only accesible to 1 class. If they want to nerf or add more counters to cloak it shouln't be restricted into a single class skill, mark target is not the solution, it has never been. Nerfing mark target doesn't make cloak stronger, is just make zerglings chasing solo players a bit less annoying.

Irylia wrote: »

Tbh just makes my 1v1 stamblade that much stronger in cyro so idc

You run a full glass ganon bow gank build, how this makes your build stronger in 1v1? in any case it only prevents you to be perma market if there is a zergling on a nighblade chasing you. I can think 50 things that can be changed to nerf your ganking build, and market target is not even on that list.

Undefwun

DDuke wrote: »

[Piercing Mark is the most disgusting, toxicity evoking skill in the game and players who Xv1 with it deserve every tbag/other type of BM they get.

The most toxicity evoking skill is snipe. Snipe from stealth in particular., not mark.
I bet if you went to youtube and looked for videos there will be quite a few vids of ppl mining salt with snipe ganking builds. Proudly showing off the hate tells they get. I doubt there will be many hate tell collecting videos from using mark.

I'd say it's more common than not to see a stamina NB use snipe usually from stealth just so they can ruin your game play experience entirely by spamming safely from a distance.

Get someone who knows what they are doing (like yourself), it's not engaging game play to be on the receiving end.

What really needs to change is snipe. Change it from a homing missile to a ground attack. Aim it like endless hail.. but like a 1m circle. Hits really hard. but if person moves outside the circle, no DMG. See how many bowtards would actually 'git gud' and learn to lead their targets instead of mindlessly spamming it cos the arrow will do 90 degree turns like it does now.

Syiccal

ManDraKE wrote: »

[
. Nerfing mark target doesn't make cloak stronger, is just make zerglings chasing solo players a bit less annoying.

you have just contradicted your self within 1 sentence ..well done.
If nerfing Mark doesn't make cloak stronger then why do the chasing zerglings become less annoying.. is it becuase maybe cloak WILL be stronger and thus harder for those to chase you down

KingJ

Nerf cloak all you want personally I don't care now Heavy stamblade/Brawlerblade is better than medium cloak blade by miles.Nerf cloak medium is dead no class is using it.

Gilvoth

Irylia wrote: »

Nb’s up in arms about a nb change that counters their own class. Even they can understand how strong cloak is yet we aren’t seeing a hard nerf to the skill.

Streak cost increase on cloak every 5 seconds of re cast. Or it doesn’t last as long/nullifies mag gen like mist.

Tbh just makes my 1v1 stamblade that much stronger in cyro so idc

here is ^ proof ^ that people asking for cloak nerfs out of revenge and spite instead of class balance.

Brrrofski

Arthalion1 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

It's a zegling skill, so I'm glad it's getting nerfed.

If you play solo or in a small group, you can't afford to slot this skill.

I do play solo and small man and have almost always slotted this skill, so not true. But thank you for confirming that is not used because people prefer other abilities, not because it's too dirty to possibly use

Well do yourself a favour and drop it. If you're wasting a slot on this you're gimping yourself in some way.

Zergers can afford to gimp themselves however, so zerglings often use it.

Syiccal

Brrrofski wrote: »

Well do yourself a favour and drop it. If you're wasting a slot on this you're gimping yourself in some way.

Zergers can afford to gimp themselves however, so zerglings often use it.

so in other words it's not op as if it was it would be widely used and not replaced by other skills that don't " gimp " the user, thus not requiring the nerf hammer. Thanks for clearning that up.

ManDraKE

Syiccal wrote: »

you have just contradicted your self within 1 sentence ..well done.
If nerfing Mark doesn't make cloak stronger then why do the chasing zerglings become less annoying.. is it becuase maybe cloak WILL be stronger and thus harder for those to chase you down

I've seen arguments with more sense coming out of the mouth of my 4 year old nephew.

p.d: stop chasing solo players, zergling.

technohic

Brrrofski wrote: »

Arthalion1 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

It's a zegling skill, so I'm glad it's getting nerfed.

If you play solo or in a small group, you can't afford to slot this skill.

I do play solo and small man and have almost always slotted this skill, so not true. But thank you for confirming that is not used because people prefer other abilities, not because it's too dirty to possibly use

Well do yourself a favour and drop it. If you're wasting a slot on this you're gimping yourself in some way.

Zergers can afford to gimp themselves however, so zerglings often use it.

Zergers who can afford to lose a slot for it, can still afford to cast it every 5 seconds.

I know personally I had it in a dressing room load out for the times where I'd come across magblades that will weave cloak between seemingly every LA ability weave making it to where you practically can't hit them. That's what's going to get cloak the sorc treatment

Syiccal

ManDraKE wrote: »

I've seen arguments with more sense coming out of the mouth of my 4 year old nephew.

p.d: stop chasing solo players, zergling.

next time take advice from him then before writing a statement with blatant contradictions

Xsorus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

The thing is; yes it's too hard of a counter for 30 seconds, but yes; it's also necessary as the other counters are too short of duration and too short of radius. 5 seconds is probably around the time I will leave myself exposed to begin with when going after a target so it's not much help now and not widely used before the nerf.

It doesn't affect zergs detecting NBs as much as people claim though. With a zerg, you can afford to have someone spamming this and as far as I can tell ; I don't see a CD or recourse timer. Think this will more effectively just be reduced to a zerg only tool.

Again; I thought this nerf would come with improving the soft counters and not be so definite.

Other counters to cloak is fine.

There are more than enough.

Is really every other softcounter fine or are you just saying that because steel tornado seems so omnipresent?

Every other soft counter is.

Want to reveal a nb? Use flare/ radiant magelight, there are plenty of aoe's, nb's cannot cloak forever and mag ones you can easily snare.

I've killed them all fine on my stamplar, a simple snare + jab spam is easy.
Stam sorc, hurricane

Literally any stam class using steel tornado is fine.

Magicka has lots of counters too, radiant, lots of class aoe's, flare etc...


It has enough counters just use them.

.....Did you just say use flare against a NB?

.....rofl