Piercing mark, reconsider this nerf.

Xsorus

Brrrofski wrote: »

Arthalion1 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

It's a zegling skill, so I'm glad it's getting nerfed.

If you play solo or in a small group, you can't afford to slot this skill.

I do play solo and small man and have almost always slotted this skill, so not true. But thank you for confirming that is not used because people prefer other abilities, not because it's too dirty to possibly use

Well do yourself a favour and drop it. If you're wasting a slot on this you're gimping yourself in some way.

Zergers can afford to gimp themselves however, so zerglings often use it.

I use it; Its required when using Dots so Nightblades don't stealth away and completely negate the dots.

PlainText

I play Night Blades and Templars in PVP. I'm not the best; I'm not the worst. Honestly, I've adapted my build more for the playstyles I find fun - this is a game - and effective for me as opposed to trying to make them "best in class". As a stamblade DW/Bow I use Piercing Mark as part of my skillset to support my team. I'm a glass cannon for the most part but that's my build and my challenge. Don't get all bent that I won't go "toe to toe" with you, I fight from stealth and at range when I can because that's my strength. And I try to keep engagements that way just as everyone else tries to manipulate the terms of the engagement to favor them. Piercing Mark and its morphs aren't crutches, they're tools that I use to play the way I want to play just as you play the way you want to play.

But taking a tool from having its effects last 30 secs to 5 secs - that's not a "tweak". That just radically changed the tool. I chose to slot that skill (and level it up) to assist my team and I use it that way. And by changing it from 30 to 5 seconds ZOS just turned it into something else entirely.

I wouldn't mind it if they took it down - all the way to 12-15 seconds. But to take it from 30 to 5? That fundamentally changes the way that tool works. That's not tweaking it, it's making it a new skill entirely.

DivineFirstYOLO

DDuke wrote: »

And based on this thread I guess you're not playing a stealth oriented NB (and if you are, it's gotta be a magicka NB with Purge slotted who uses Piercing Mark on other NBs).


Piercing Mark is the most disgusting, toxicity evoking skill in the game and players who Xv1 with it deserve every tbag/other type of BM they get.

100% agree, and every Xv1 NB is using mark.. yes people could slot purge, but mark is too easy to use..costs half as much as purge and lasts way too long. Will be a decent change next patch.

Arkangeloski

KingJ wrote: »

Nerf cloak all you want personally I don't care now Heavy stamblade/Brawlerblade is better than medium cloak blade by miles.Nerf cloak medium is dead no class is using it.

Juhasow

With that change it'll be funny to watch nb vs nb fights

Arkangeloski

Juhasow wrote: »

With that change it'll be funny to watch nb vs nb fights

Never had a problem hunting down other nb's with detect pots as well as being hunted (you win some you loose some) . can't wait for this to be live in all platforms... I have no sympathy for nb's that use mark except for magblades for debuff purposes, other than that it promotes toxic gameplay snipe spammers behind a zerg or in bg's like snipe is not already bad enough and zenimax has done 0 to address those health desyncs that go hand in hand with that trash ability, and now next patch no evasion? Who is going to save you on your medium armor when those glitchy snipes start to rain on your head? I mean you can dodge roll but how many times can you dodgeroll vs how many times the can spammed on you? Plus they want to mark you for 30 secs?
I don't know about u guys but I'm glad mark it's going to be trash next patch lol l2p

Juhasow

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Nb’s up in arms about a nb change that counters their own class. Even they can understand how strong cloak is yet we aren’t seeing a hard nerf to the skill.

Streak cost increase on cloak every 5 seconds of re cast. Or it doesn’t last as long/nullifies mag gen like mist.

Tbh just makes my 1v1 stamblade that much stronger in cyro so idc

here is ^ proof ^ that people asking for cloak nerfs out of revenge and spite instead of class balance.

Here is ↑ proof ↑ that people maining stamblade for too long are getting extremly biased and dont even think about balance when they're talking about balance prefering instead of keeping their build untouched even when it overperforms just for the sake of their own benefit.

Nicko_Lps

Ladies and Gentlemen,

We have a whiner, sorry winner.


The one and only class of ESO that its skills is being nerfed to buff them is: Nightblade.

IZZEFlameLash

Uncalled for changes. I bet a NB wrecked Wrobel really hard.

Ragnarock41

When nightblades are nerfed because of themselves....

TBH fighter guild's detection ability should work like mark.

StShoot

I only have one problem with mark, it is a nb counter that is given to nbs xD
Doesnt make a hole lot of sence.
And is it realy so hard to recast it every 5 seconds? I like this changes because it gives a counterplay to mark for nbs who realy able to play their class, before this change it just was a "braindead" counter in a 1vX situation.

Aaaand before i get asked: no i dont play a nightblade and actual i realy hate cloak =P

Nyladreas

Arthalion1 wrote: »

I was very surprised to read in the patch notes that the stealth detection element of piercing mark is being reduced from 30 seconds to 5 seconds.

There are several reasons why I consider this change to be unwarranted:

1. From my experience (as a nightblade), I would not say this skill is overly utilised and certainly won't be after this patch.

2. Cloak is one of the most complained about skills in the game, so to essentially remove the only hard counter seems like an odd decision- I appreciate it is not being removed, but given the cost of the ability it cannot be justified for a 5 second duration.

3. Very few nightblades are using this ability for major breach, so it will be redundant. We have surprise attack for major breach.

4. Does anyone even complain about this ability? Only the person using mark can see the target. How was it considered overpowered?

5. Finally, it is a huge reduction. I could accept say 15 seconds, but 5 seconds really is overkill.

Please keep in mind this is coming from someone who has mainly played nightblade from launch.

Am I missing something?

Very few NBs? Every single NB in IC is. Every single Magblade in BGs is.

NO.

Also, I'm tired of dying to zergs in cyro because some chucklehead slots mark.

NO.

Aldul

I'm just gonna say this: As a sorc, I _never_ have been afraid of being marked. And that might be because I was able to shield, but I can imagine that any class/build, capable of reading the situation and surroundings should have been laughing at what being marked by a nb meant to them. Feel free to _buff_ this skill. It has never been powerful in pvp imho ...
While I'd qq and even ragequit the game if ZOS reconsiders casttime to sorc shields, I can easily say that this nerf is kinda pointless. That's fair, isn't it?

Arthalion1

Well, I think it's quite clear we have two sides here. A lot of nbs who hate mark with a passion and a lot who consider mark to be a fair ability, which will probably be quite useless with a 5s duration.

I am sort of surprised by the response from a lot of nbs. It comes across as quite greedy to me, as being marked is often the only thing to stop a nb rampage.

Edit- this part of my comment probably wasn't fair, as not true of all nbs.

I will be interested to read the notes this afternoon. I'd be very happy with a 10-15s duration, otherwise I will slot something else.

leepalmer95

Arthalion1 wrote: »

Well, I think it's quite clear we have two sides here. A lot of nbs who hate mark with a passion and a lot who consider mark to be a fair ability, which will probably be quite useless with a 5s duration.

I am sort of surprised by the response from a lot of nbs. It comes across as quite greedy to me, as being marked is often the only thing to stop a nb rampage.

You shouldn't be able to secure kill after kill with no concerns about being revealed, in my opinion.

I will be interested to read the notes this afternoon. I'd be very happy with a 10-15s duration, otherwise I will slot something else.

I play other classes more than nb, mark was too much of a hard counter.

Having soft counters in the game is good, having a skill basically disable another skill for 30s from 60m was stupid.

technohic

It was too much of a hard counter, but while most classes get weaker; stam NBs are really getting stronger. The only thing that might be getting better as a counter might be if we get more stam-sorcs from all the magicka ones flipping. And anyone who stands in the open better run impreg.

Nicko_Lps

technohic wrote: »

It was too much of a hard counter, but while most classes get weaker; stam NBs are really getting stronger. The only thing that might be getting better as a counter might be if we get more stam-sorcs from all the magicka ones flipping. And anyone who stands in the open better run impreg.

Ehm...Sorry but was there a patch that did not made stamblades+magblades stronger?

The_Shadowborn

Wouldn't it be better that if someone marks you then you could also see them. Yeah 5 seconds is too much 15-20 would be fine but for the love of god allow me to find the zergling that marked me.

Mayrael

Ok let me say something about mark from perspective someone who was on both ends of this skill:
- when in 1v1 situation this skill was not changing as much as it seems. When you're magicka just use shield and wait for inc attack, when on stam hold block and be ready to roll/brak free.
- when you're outnumbered you need run really fast and use LoS a lot if you will be able to get out range of NB who marked you, you will survive, if not in most cases yore dead no matter how good you are. The only exceptions from this are surroundings with lots of obstacles and different levels where you can use shadow image effectively
- when you use it against single NB while running with zerg, if you know what are you doing no matter how good that NB will be, he's dead. There is no REAL counter for this skill, it's few times cheaper than purge and requires at least 2 casts of purge to get rid of the reveal effect.

In general 30s was far to long, it didn't allowed for any real counterplay other than running away, that was broken (same as Shieldbreaker is broken vs MagSorcs, when you meet someone competent with that set all you can do is to run away). 5s though maybe to short against someone experienced who knows how to use LoS... On the other hand even those 5s of reveal will be more than enough to kill NB when caught in open filed. Needs some tests definitely but in general it's a change in good direction.

Feanor

As a fun exercise, read the postings in here and replace „Mark“ with „Oblivion damage“. It’s illuminating.

Ryan1704

It was too frequently used as a zerglings tool to completely negate a defence mechanism which is easily countered anyway. Also it was dumb that nightblades even had this skill in the first place as i think its unfair that the only class that has effective stealth also had the best stealth removal skill.

DanteYoda

Man this game.. seriously

Undefwun

The_Shadowborn wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better that if someone marks you then you could also see them. Yeah 5 seconds is too much 15-20 would be fine but for the love of god allow me to find the zergling that marked me.

That's some fine straw clutching.

On that same line of thinking then, wouldn't it be better that if someone snipes you it does the same dmg to them, because for the love of god that coward that sniped me should feel the same pain.

Doesn't make much sense either...

ScruffyWhiskers

Undefwun wrote: »

The_Shadowborn wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better that if someone marks you then you could also see them. Yeah 5 seconds is too much 15-20 would be fine but for the love of god allow me to find the zergling that marked me.

That's some fine straw clutching.

On that same line of thinking then, wouldn't it be better that if someone snipes you it does the same dmg to them, because for the love of god that coward that sniped me should feel the same pain.

Doesn't make much sense either...

Funny thing is that "back in the day" it actually debuffed both players.

I'm really conflicted on this personally. If I am playing defense I use mark to help chase down gankers but like I said, most good stamblades could care less nowadays. Mizaru is just going to laugh and keep rolling. Others will just run away a mile at speeds you can't match. On the other hand a lot of players will freeze if you mark them.

If I am out playing offensively then I slot eff purge and hope I don't get marked and have a zerg on my tail. Just last night I was trying to pick off siegers on the N side of Alessia. I accidently picked a tanky fella and before I knew it I was marked and even though I managed to mist behind a rock the double purge was too late and I was toast.

Being marked is a pita for mag nb the most.

The_Shadowborn

Undefwun wrote: »

The_Shadowborn wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better that if someone marks you then you could also see them. Yeah 5 seconds is too much 15-20 would be fine but for the love of god allow me to find the zergling that marked me.

That's some fine straw clutching.

On that same line of thinking then, wouldn't it be better that if someone snipes you it does the same dmg to them, because for the love of god that coward that sniped me should feel the same pain.

Doesn't make much sense either...

No its not. It makes mark a choice for a player to make; to actually fight this person rather than cower in the shadows waiting for more people to arrive to finish a job they started and couldn't finish.

Illuvatarr

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Soo, with detect pots having an warning and mark nerfed by 25s, is it fair to ask for an overhaul of Magelight and especially Expert Hunter?

Like decreased costs and larger radius? Expert Hunter costs 4k stam in 5 medium and has only 6m range. That's nothing, especially with the movement speed some NBs have. Other than that, the passives are nice but the morph's are both so bad I don't even care to spend a skill point in them.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Soo, with detect pots having an warning and mark nerfed by 25s, is it fair to ask for an overhaul of Magelight and especially Expert Hunter?

Like decreased costs and larger radius? Expert Hunter costs 4k stam in 5 medium and has only 6m range. That's nothing, especially with the movement speed some NBs have. Other than that, the passives are nice but the morph's are both so bad I don't even care to spend a skill point in them.

It’s actually a buff. Nightblade survivability got hammered with this patch.

Arkangeloski

Is drinking the tears of your own kind considered canibalism?

Tonturri

I think the nerf was a good change.

Having one skill that is godlike vs opponents of the same class using a certain skill but useless 99% of the rest of the time is quite an odd way to design a skill. Furthermore, the skill essentially had zero counters (I say essentially instead of actually zero because I am aware purge exists).

So, the nerf makes it less godlike in one scenario out of many, and hopefully opens the door to buffs in other ways. Of course, ZOS won't actually do anything like that and will probably leave the skill to burn in the firey pits of heck, but that's nothing new.