PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Templar

anadandy · September 2018

itscompton wrote: »

I play a magtemp but I use restoring focus for the mitigation and healing and I'm also super bummed those are getting taken away, especially after we just got the benefit of them lasting the full duration even when we leave the Rune.

Yeah that's the one disappointing thing for me as well, I'd actually started using that skill on a regular basis again.

JimmyJuJu · September 2018

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

I have never tried a Templar, so I dont understand all this good feedback on this thread. All ive heard before is how it has bad sustain and poor mobility.

Should I make a stamplar or a mageplar? And why?

Why not make both? Personally, I think stamplar is receiving more love for Murkmire, so start there.

If you roll a Dunmer stamplar, you can pretty easily re-roll a magplar on the same toon. You lose some max stats vs other classes (like Orc or Redguard for stam and Altmer for mag) but it gives you some flexibility either way.

Im leaning towards stamplar. I like stamina characters better anyway. The shield nerf has made me lose motivation in leveling up my mageblade that I recently wasted money on making her look awesome. Such a disappointment. I just wanted to TRY to make vet dungeons easier and more casual so I could get the gear I need. But my glass canon pvp sniper NB gets 1 shotted by bosses in dungeons. I need a good dungeon stamina build.

Then you want a stamplar

(but I am terribly biased so...)

Latios · September 2018

Anyone got the exact numbers for restoring focus’ stamina recovery? I can’t access PTS to check atm

Arthalion1 · September 2018

Radiant destruction is going to hit like s train. I would suggest you accept the increased cost happily. If people get too trigger happy with radiant then the nerf hammer will come down very quickly as this ability is already seriously over performing in pvp, without the upcoming further buff.

danno8 · September 2018

Arthalion1 wrote: »

Radiant destruction is going to hit like s train. I would suggest you accept the increased cost happily. If people get too trigger happy with radiant then the nerf hammer will come down very quickly as this ability is already seriously over performing in pvp, without the upcoming further buff.

The cost was decreased in proportion to the channel time decrease. Cost wise it should be a net-zero change. The damage was also slightly reduced.

The only thing the change really did was make weaving RD in with DoT's (PvE) and light attacks less cumbersome. For PvP it will be better in some situations (if you need to cancel the channel it will be less of a cost penalty), but worse in some others (there is a delay from casting the spell to when it connects, so there will be fewer hits in the same time frame as current version).

Minno · September 2018

Latios wrote: »

Anyone got the exact numbers for restoring focus’ stamina recovery? I can’t access PTS to check atm

Non medium tooltip cost is 900. The rest is easy to figure out because it's the same thing as channeled except for stamina.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · September 2018

Minno wrote: »

Latios wrote: »

Anyone got the exact numbers for restoring focus’ stamina recovery? I can’t access PTS to check atm

Non medium tooltip cost is 900. The rest is easy to figure out because it's the same thing as channeled except for stamina.

The answer is the equivalent of 480 regen.

FoolishOptimist · September 2018

While this is something minor, currently on live, Repentance does not work on the corpses of slain innocents. I’m not sure if this is a thematic feature or a bug, but I would appreciate being able to sap the essence from all of those slain Khajiiti.

contact.opiumb16_ESO · September 2018

Feedback from a stamplar since launch :

The new rune is a good bump for templars. They finally have access to a suntain STAM option. The only thing, it as to be a magicka cost base. Stamplars do not have a lot of choice on magicka effective abilities.

The new way animation sweeps work is a good chance BUT let's be honnest : sweep is still useless in PVP.

. It's an AOE DOT dmg, so it's double mitigated by CP
. it's channeled, so you can't weave light attk/spam properly and you lose a LOT of dps by weaving, plus the easy dodge, it's near impossible to land the complete channeled, or even 2 hits

It as to be a non channeled ability, dealing only one hit, dealing an AOE DMG + AOE DOT (bleed) and slow, but not a channel cast. Like so, we can finally spam it if needed AND weave with light attacks (in PVe AND PVP). I do not care the new 25% if i have this

the new javelin : it is now supposed to be a MELEE ability (like it was originally) for stam morph (while scater shot replace it). Pls rework it like this :
. reduce the range, so we can pine a guy at a melee range (range equal to a gape closer range)
. reduce the cost, it's our only viable spammable hard CC, it's very expensive for the dmg it deals

Finally, we ask for a stam morph for the gap closer since a long time now ! Pls do it ! With a gape closer stam based we should have more chance to play the aedric line correctly (gape close, stun, spammable), and proc burning light + the new passive (8% RED DMG when using a eadric ability).

reprosal · September 2018

Wait, the stam regen does not require us to be in the circle for the buff to be active? Only in it for the first bit?

Minno · September 2018

reprosal wrote: »

Wait, the stam regen does not require us to be in the circle for the buff to be active? Only in it for the first bit?

you get the stamina buff on cast.

reprosal · September 2018

I thought you still had to stay in the circle for the regen. Maybe that is only for the resistances buff? Sorry my addon buff tracker doesnt work on PTS

Minno · September 2018

reprosal wrote: »

I thought you still had to stay in the circle for the regen. Maybe that is only for the resistances buff? Sorry my addon buff tracker doesnt work on PTS

only for the resist buff. and it only buffs your resist major buff values not your total armor raiting.

reprosal · September 2018

Well excuse me while i go do cartwheels in the snow.

Drdeath20 · September 2018

itscompton wrote: »

ColoredScreams wrote: »

I have concerns.
For perspective, I play stamina templar in PvP. I welcome the repentance change but stamplars in PvP will no longer have a reliable uptime on minor protection (and minor vitality) as they did before. 8% damage mitigation is huge.

Spear Wall: This ability now grants you Minor Protection for 1.5/3 seconds after activating an Aedric Spear ability.

In PvP, stamplars are not exclusively casting Biting Jabs on cooldown, ever. They are sprinting, rolling, healing, applying bleeds, casting shuffle what feels like every 3 seconds to stay out of roots, purging, reapplying buffs, dots, and hots, ulting, repenting, getting into melee range, moving to line of sight etc... therefore having 3 seconds of minor protection tied directly to a 1.1 second channeled ability and Javelin, which is a blockable and dodgeable low damage stun that not all stamina templars use, will inevitably result in very poor uptime for minor protection (and less importantly minor vitality) on stamplar, as opposed to how it is now: near 100% with restoring focus. I understand restoring focus now restores some stamina, but it also now costs stamina. Even if there is a small over all net increase over 20 seconds of stamina gained you will have to directly use that gained stamina for expensive defensive abilities, such as rolling or vigor, just to try to make up for the loss of reliable minor protection and minor vitality. The restoring focus change is not a buff to stamina templars, players will realize that sustain is equally as difficult as the previous patches because they are taking 8% more damage and receiving 8% less healing for the majority of the fight.
Please allow stamina templar to have reliable access to minor protection. My suggestions would be to leave it on restoring focus but remove minor vitality, or increase the duration granted from the passive significantly, at least 10 seconds from 3 seconds, so it is more in line with the previous patches uptime. Stamplars will not jab when they need to play defensive.
Now let's talk about something equally as relevant: Jabs doing 25% less damage to major evasion and 10% less damage to minor evasion. The new changes make evasion very easily accessible to nearly every class in the game. It is now attainable through sets (including sets like gossamer that grant multiple targets major evasion), weapon skills, class skills, and an armor skill. I am aware that there was an 8% damage increase to jabs (although only to the one closest target), but this will lead to an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs. Please reconsider just an 8% damage increase, the ability already does so little damage to other targets that are not the primary target. My suggestion is to increase the damage it does to all other targets that are NOT the closet enemy by a notable amount in addition to an overall damage buff to the skill. This may still yield an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs against targets that have access to evasion (which is now very easily accessible), but it brings stamina templars overall damage more in line with previous patches and provides an important role for this classes signature ability.
Note: I do not think the rotation changes to jabs will be nearly enough. Most stamina templar will already be facing towards the enemy when jabbing, if you get rooted while jabbing, the majority of the time the remainder of the jabs will land directionally until they are outranged ("kited") by an enemy who is walking back. The issue with jabs vs roots is not about direction, it is about melee range. If jabs granted a brief amount of snare immunity, for example 2-3 seconds, this will be less of an issue.
If the changes for stamina templar remain the same, Murkmire will be an overall nerf to stamplars defense, healing, and damage as well as sustain because the stamina restored from restoring focus will have to directly be used try and make up for these new significant losses.

-@inscentia " Kiri "

I play a magtemp but I use restoring focus for the mitigation and healing and I'm also super bummed those are getting taken away, especially after we just got the benefit of them lasting the full duration even when we leave the Rune. I also use Empowering Sweep for the mitigation (which currently stacks with Major Protection from any source)and now that's not going to be worth running . On the live server if you get in the middle of a ball group and pop an Empowering you can easily hit 6-10 people, giving you 10 seconds of 39%-59% damage reduction. Using an Empowering when Pirate Skeleton procs right now puts me at or near the mitigation cap and allows me to go full offensive against multiple opponents and it really sucks that whole play style is getting trashed with these changes since 30% is now the limit for damage reduction even when both are up at the same time. So I really see the changes to Empowering being a huge nerf. I'm not even worried about losing DPS from the damage type change, for me using Empowering is all about stacking mitigation and that's going away.

Easily hit 6 to 10 people with empowering sweeps??? i cant even get it to hit the target dummy when im right next to it

Elsterchen · September 2018

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

Feedback from a stamplar since launch :

The new rune is a good bump for templars. They finally have access to a suntain STAM option. The only thing, it as to be a magicka cost base. Stamplars do not have a lot of choice on magicka effective abilities.
The new way animation sweeps work is a good chance BUT let's be honnest : sweep is still useless in PVP.

. It's an AOE DOT dmg, so it's double mitigated by CP
. it's channeled, so you can't weave light attk/spam properly and you lose a LOT of dps by weaving, plus the easy dodge, it's near impossible to land the complete channeled, or even 2 hits

It as to be a non channeled ability, dealing only one hit, dealing an AOE DMG + AOE DOT (bleed) and slow, but not a channel cast. Like so, we can finally spam it if needed AND weave with light attacks (in PVe AND PVP). I do not care the new 25% if i have this

the new javelin : it is now supposed to be a MELEE ability (like it was originally) for stam morph (while scater shot replace it). Pls rework it like this :
. reduce the range, so we can pine a guy at a melee range (since range as gape closers)
. reduce the cost, it's our only viable spammable hard CC, it's very expensive for the dmg it deals

Finally, we ask for a stam morph for the gap closer since a long time now ! Pls do it ! With a gape closer stam based we should have more chance to play the aedric line correctly (gape close, stun, spammable), and proc burning light + the new passive (8% RED DMG when using a eadric ability).

... and thats only one option you may want think about, when asking yourself what to do with mag when restoring focus is getting stam based...

LordSlif · September 2018

any news about puncturing and light atk? or focused charge to melee range?

Minno · September 2018

Looks like templar only got crescent sweep dmg on all hits in the frontal cone instead of just the first hit todays patch.

LordSlif · September 2018

a buff omg i cant believe

Weps · September 2018

Templars are looking nasty next patch.
Finally.

Amazing work by the class rep, they got what they wanted. they knew exactly what the templars need.
My hats off to you sirs

Elsterchen · September 2018

Minno wrote: »

Looks like templar only got crescent sweep dmg on all hits in the frontal cone instead of just the first hit todays patch. !

That's how i read it.

Synozeer · September 2018

Elsterchen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Looks like templar only got crescent sweep dmg on all hits in the frontal cone instead of just the first hit todays patch. !

That's how i read it.

Now only if they fix it so the ult will actually HIT people standing in front of you.

LordSlif · September 2018

they must improve focused charge and everything will be good

danno8 · September 2018

Minno wrote: »

Looks like templar only got crescent sweep dmg on all hits in the frontal cone instead of just the first hit todays patch.

Which is great for sure, but they need to fix the penetrations being reversed for the two morphs.

Minno · September 2018

danno8 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Looks like templar only got crescent sweep dmg on all hits in the frontal cone instead of just the first hit todays patch.

Which is great for sure, but they need to fix the penetrations being reversed for the two morphs.

I didnt have time to test TBH.

cazlonb16_ESO · September 2018

Weps wrote: »

Templars are looking nasty next patch.
Finally.

Amazing work by the class rep, they got what they wanted. they knew exactly what the templars need.
My hats off to you sirs

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Templars' toolkit is finally getting upgraded to the state of the game...one skill at a dlc. About *** time. You remember "Templars are gonna be the next big thing" as the running joke every patch ?

Still, Templars are not anywhere close to the ridiculously op status Dks were after release and Sorcs and Nbs have been during various stages of the game.

€: Can't test the sweep changes as I am off to Senegal and Mali tomorrow.

itscompton · September 2018

Drdeath20 wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

ColoredScreams wrote: »

I have concerns.
For perspective, I play stamina templar in PvP. I welcome the repentance change but stamplars in PvP will no longer have a reliable uptime on minor protection (and minor vitality) as they did before. 8% damage mitigation is huge.

Spear Wall: This ability now grants you Minor Protection for 1.5/3 seconds after activating an Aedric Spear ability.

In PvP, stamplars are not exclusively casting Biting Jabs on cooldown, ever. They are sprinting, rolling, healing, applying bleeds, casting shuffle what feels like every 3 seconds to stay out of roots, purging, reapplying buffs, dots, and hots, ulting, repenting, getting into melee range, moving to line of sight etc... therefore having 3 seconds of minor protection tied directly to a 1.1 second channeled ability and Javelin, which is a blockable and dodgeable low damage stun that not all stamina templars use, will inevitably result in very poor uptime for minor protection (and less importantly minor vitality) on stamplar, as opposed to how it is now: near 100% with restoring focus. I understand restoring focus now restores some stamina, but it also now costs stamina. Even if there is a small over all net increase over 20 seconds of stamina gained you will have to directly use that gained stamina for expensive defensive abilities, such as rolling or vigor, just to try to make up for the loss of reliable minor protection and minor vitality. The restoring focus change is not a buff to stamina templars, players will realize that sustain is equally as difficult as the previous patches because they are taking 8% more damage and receiving 8% less healing for the majority of the fight.
Please allow stamina templar to have reliable access to minor protection. My suggestions would be to leave it on restoring focus but remove minor vitality, or increase the duration granted from the passive significantly, at least 10 seconds from 3 seconds, so it is more in line with the previous patches uptime. Stamplars will not jab when they need to play defensive.
Now let's talk about something equally as relevant: Jabs doing 25% less damage to major evasion and 10% less damage to minor evasion. The new changes make evasion very easily accessible to nearly every class in the game. It is now attainable through sets (including sets like gossamer that grant multiple targets major evasion), weapon skills, class skills, and an armor skill. I am aware that there was an 8% damage increase to jabs (although only to the one closest target), but this will lead to an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs. Please reconsider just an 8% damage increase, the ability already does so little damage to other targets that are not the primary target. My suggestion is to increase the damage it does to all other targets that are NOT the closet enemy by a notable amount in addition to an overall damage buff to the skill. This may still yield an overall damage nerf to Biting Jabs against targets that have access to evasion (which is now very easily accessible), but it brings stamina templars overall damage more in line with previous patches and provides an important role for this classes signature ability.
Note: I do not think the rotation changes to jabs will be nearly enough. Most stamina templar will already be facing towards the enemy when jabbing, if you get rooted while jabbing, the majority of the time the remainder of the jabs will land directionally until they are outranged ("kited") by an enemy who is walking back. The issue with jabs vs roots is not about direction, it is about melee range. If jabs granted a brief amount of snare immunity, for example 2-3 seconds, this will be less of an issue.
If the changes for stamina templar remain the same, Murkmire will be an overall nerf to stamplars defense, healing, and damage as well as sustain because the stamina restored from restoring focus will have to directly be used try and make up for these new significant losses.

-@inscentia " Kiri "

I play a magtemp but I use restoring focus for the mitigation and healing and I'm also super bummed those are getting taken away, especially after we just got the benefit of them lasting the full duration even when we leave the Rune. I also use Empowering Sweep for the mitigation (which currently stacks with Major Protection from any source)and now that's not going to be worth running . On the live server if you get in the middle of a ball group and pop an Empowering you can easily hit 6-10 people, giving you 10 seconds of 39%-59% damage reduction. Using an Empowering when Pirate Skeleton procs right now puts me at or near the mitigation cap and allows me to go full offensive against multiple opponents and it really sucks that whole play style is getting trashed with these changes since 30% is now the limit for damage reduction even when both are up at the same time. So I really see the changes to Empowering being a huge nerf. I'm not even worried about losing DPS from the damage type change, for me using Empowering is all about stacking mitigation and that's going away.

Easily hit 6 to 10 people with empowering sweeps??? i cant even get it to hit the target dummy when im right next to it

It does Miss completely once in a while against one or two opponents but if I'm in the middle of a ball group I don't seem to have problems hitting enough of them to make me Invincible for 10 seconds.

Elsterchen · September 2018

Synozeer wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Looks like templar only got crescent sweep dmg on all hits in the frontal cone instead of just the first hit todays patch. !

That's how i read it.

Now only if they fix it so the ult will actually HIT people standing in front of you.

You need to test this, (I'll try reinstalling PTS today, lost access bc I had to reinstall launcher) - as far as i know from the stam-version of sweep ult on live, in most cases one misses targets to the side and back ... especially those near or almost stacking on char. (which happens with other abilities having comparable mechanics, too (eg. steel tornado))

Uneven terrain may still be problematic, but one can change position between 1st and 2nd, as well as 3rd hit. Increased damage of each hit may be very well notable, even in situations when hits are missed.

Loosing the 360° of area of effect will be somewhat challenging, imo. But maybe thats just bc I liked to use the ult in situations of just running and spinning right into the biggest group of enemies available.
Someone playing smart will definately feel different about this.

danno8 · September 2018

Elsterchen wrote: »

Synozeer wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Looks like templar only got crescent sweep dmg on all hits in the frontal cone instead of just the first hit todays patch. !

That's how i read it.

Now only if they fix it so the ult will actually HIT people standing in front of you.

You need to test this, (I'll try reinstalling PTS today, lost access bc I had to reinstall launcher) - as far as i know from the stam-version of sweep ult on live, in most cases one misses targets to the side and back ... especially those near or almost stacking on char. (which happens with other abilities having comparable mechanics, too (eg. steel tornado))

Uneven terrain may still be problematic, but one can change position between 1st and 2nd, as well as 3rd hit. Increased damage of each hit may be very well notable, even in situations when hits are missed.

Loosing the 360° of area of effect will be somewhat challenging, imo. But maybe thats just bc I liked to use the ult in situations of just running and spinning right into the biggest group of enemies available.
Someone playing smart will definately feel different about this.

No joke, the very first test I did with new Crescent was to use Toppling->Crescent on the target dummy, and it missed, lol. Full disclosure though, every other time I did that combo it hit no problem as I was trying to replicate the issue (probably 10 more tries).

I think uneven terrain is an issue because of how the AoE is actually created. The animation of the skill is separate from the AoE field which I am pretty sure is calculated like a disc on the ground (kind of like Rune Focus). On uneven terrain that circular disc tilts to the slant of the terrain meaning if you are on a 45 degree angle the AoE in front of you is more like 3 meters instead of 6 meters.

Add in that the game has a delay sometimes in updating where you are and the Charge->Sweep can miss very easily.

Cinbri · September 2018

@danno8 I came to conclusion that bug is not coz altitude difference. Just too oftenly it bug on even terrains.

Couple thoughts and ideas:
1.Crescent Sweep:
A. have to note that dot was changed to be counted as direct damage but only CP-wise, apparently coz changes to how morphs works. So, on CP: since magplars have far more points in dot CP than in direct damage CP - in compare to live version dot will deal less than flat 60% damage boost, because it will be boosted by direct damage CP; on no CP it will be flat 60% increase.
B. Improve uniqueness of Crescent Sweep: I really liked this idea implemented into nb Incap ultimate where ultimate can have different effect while scaling with ultimate points, it opens entire new possibilities. So, exact same could be made for Radial Sweep ult with its morphs: allow it to scale to 120ult that activate ability to stun people infront of you for Crescent. Or both morphs of Radial to stun people around..
a. it will help with AoE CC and will make more inline Dawnbreaker with Radial with is "class"-alternative ult.
b. 120 ult instead of 130 for couple reasons: 1. its effect not scale with Restoring Spirit passive so it will remain 120 no matter what, but other ults does. So it will be equal in cost with class defensive ult - Rite of Passage which is 120ult. In combat it means use both those ults on main/back bar upon reaching 120 ult will grant choice - go offense or go defense. 2. Incapacitating Strike is 120 ult but other ults that would have similar effects to Crescent - Dragon Leap that is 6.5m damage with stun, Dawnbreaker of Smiting that stuns in its AoE - are 125 ult; and here Crescent will cost 5% less as symbolic scaling of Restoring Spirit.

2. Master Ritualist:
I believe it next passive that should be looked at. When was leveling new templar it was frustrating to read passive description, there is no incentive to invest points into it. Its passive that have almost no effect for class itself, not allow to fulfill the role of passive to boosting class capabilites in what they want to do. Instead of helping in dps, or healing or tanking, it just a allow to redeem a already made failure. It would be much better to have all-round passive that actively helps templars to prevent negative results instead of starting to work only when it happened. It could be made by affecting couple passives at a time. Just like Spear Wall passive was made to actually affect full tree-line of Aedric Spear.
Its main purpose of being just resurrect speed-buff is just uneffective: a. it badly stack with other resurrect boost skills, to prevent it being OP, but as result decrease its effectiveness per se. If someone wana build on resurrects - there is already granted possibilities by CP, sets, Alliance passives that allow to effectively favor resurrect without severe any class passives capabilities. b. In combat itself it cant be valuable as main role of resurrect, and zos showed that they share this idea - by sets like Kagrenac and Hanu: Kagrenac was originally just resurrect speedbuff, but it was buffed to have solid boost to spd as 5pc bonus, coz iorst of all set just like passives should benefit user to invested in it; then Hanu set released - it grant one of the strongest ingame major buffs on resurrect, but even despite so it still grant additional max mana as 5pc bonus, so wearer can benefit from wearing set in actual combat, all the time, even despite main bonus based on resurrect.
So, couple ideas how it could be changed to actually be viable for templar: First of all - remove 2ult per cast of Healing Ritual on wounded allies from Light Weaver passive. It not making this skill more attractive while also not working with rest of the skill tree, while in extreme situations it works too good(14ult per cast). Also this is another effect that affect mostly allies instead of class that invest points into passive
A. Change Master Ritualist to grant minor heroism for 3 seconds buff when healed by Restoring Tree skill while below 75% hp threshold. - with such mechanic: a. it will be equalized in term of mechanic with Spear Wall - i.e. working with entire skill tree. b. it will actually help templar in action instead of being loose-end passive. c. it will be all-round passive that will help dps/tank/healer templar roles. d. it wont be possible to stack this passive to grant bigger ult generation like current mechanic of Healing ritual e. its duration is equal to Spear Wall passive and benefit from from it - minor buff provide 1 ult per 1.5 sec, means in 3 sec of ult it will be 2ult granted, same as from Light Weaver, but unstackable. f. it proc condition based on already existing mechanic of Honor the Dead that proved to be nice. g. it will equally affect both magplars/stamplars.
On loose end - it wont be effective to stack with sets that grant minor heroism.
B. Do exact same change as above^^, but switch Ritualist and Restoring Spirit passives and proc by activating Dawn Wrath skills. With such change result is : a. Restoring Spirit passive that boost sustain will be in skill-tree that is affect sustain, while Ritualist will be in skill-tree that grant ultimates in combat. b. it will be more aggressive one as it will proc from damage skills that used by both spec magplar/stamplar.