PTS Update 20 - Feedback Thread for Wardens

Galalin · September 2018

Wait you mean a class you have to pay to get got buffs when it is already the best Open World class in the game? Glad I payed to win. MDK going in the garage with the door open for occasional play. Hello my Stamden.

Iki · September 2018

Thraben wrote: »

The same feedback as always:

1) Bear needs a grace period before it despawns, so that I can have at least a second ulti on my back bar.

2) Bird of Prey is a plain StamWarden buff. I honestly cannot understand why you should buff the already overperforming StamWardens, but destroy the already struggling MagWardens with the Annulnment nerf.

3) Swarm needs a Stam morph, not a cost reduction.

4) The new Arctic Blast is good.

Why do you call this stamden buff? It has nothing to do with stamina or magicka. Change will just buff those who slot bird of prey to their dps-bar and nerf those who have it in back-bar. My stamden have almost always had it in back-bar, and he will see this as a nerf.
I very much agree that swarm needs stamina-morph, if they dont make one for murkmire it will just be another wasted opportunity. Stamina-morph to swarm could also justify dmg-nerf to sub assault and I`m probably not only one who would like to see that happen.

Starlock · September 2018

I am unable to use PTS because console users are left out of this process, but our voices matter so I am adding mine. For context, I currently have a couple of wardens. I've played my plucky archer the most - she's a stamina build and werewolf. I don't PvP much, but she is my go-to PvP character and in dungeons I run her as a stam healer (yes, it works). My other warden I may delete and rebuild, but she's a tree hugging healer. She's intended to be my main healer, but I haven't spent as much time with her.

Advanced Species changes are nice. Thank you!
Betty Netch giving more resources feels... overtuned. However, it's difficult to tell without PTS access, and my archer is also built around having high stamina recovery as she's a dodge rolling maniac.
Dive changes will make the abilities more intuitive. I still miss the days of them being undodgeable, but that also didn't make sense and was a good change.
The changes to Falcon's Swiftness make me really excited. I would use it on my archer because it felt signature even if it wasn't that great, but now it is just awesome.
None of my wardens use Feral Guardian so I can't comment on the changes one way or another.
I really miss the stun that used to be on Scortch. I understand that it isn't coming back, and am not sure a cost reduction really makes up for that loss.
I fell in love with Swarm for my healer as a nice low-cost way of adding a bit of damage to the fight. I'm not sure a cost increase will make this as worthwhile for her.
The Maturation changes are interesting. It will add some neat flavor to my healer. I think this will be neat!
The new Arctic Blast looks interesting, but I don't use that ability on either of my characters as it doesn't fit them. I might try this on my healer so she has a defense mechanism to protect herself?
Thanks for fixing the Impaling Shards visuals. It would get a little confusing sometimes.

hollywood · September 2018

I played around a bit with a template dps Magicka Warden and I don't see the need for the 30% damage reduction on the bear ultimate. If anything , leave it as it was and increase the damage of swarm. Or maybe make it so it deal increased damage on low health targets. Coupled with the other changes in the class and nighblades being toned down , Magden would be in a better spot.

And specially like that Minor Toughness can essentially be up at all times in a raid/group , means that people can run Witchmother\Dubious , because they now they will get extra 10% health from having a Warden in the group.

Xsorus · September 2018

I'll say it again, Arctic Blast is the worst change.

You'll pretty much swap to the other one as it atleast is usable when not targeting something and heals someone else.

Olupajmibanan · September 2018

Can we have an update on Nature's Gift passive?
Maturation now works on overheal, Nature's Gift Still not.
Maturation procs from self-heals, Nature's Gift still not.

shaielzafine · September 2018

Namarkas wrote: »

Please reconsider the change to minor toughness, this comes from a PVE raid perspective.

I really get the idea behind it. "Make every class desirable". And you did a really nice job with the passives of the minor buffs of the other classes! But as it stands at the moment, the only way to get this buff reliably is to have a warden HEALER.

And that is the pain point.
I remember reading somewhere in the Class representitive program when magblade stacking was adressed that "you don't want a group to cancel a raid just bc the stamdk couldn't come". In this case you made the warden healer this necessity.
All other classes have a "when you activate a [insert class tree] ability, you grant your team mates [insert minor buff]". But the warden actually has to heal the target. And reaching everybody with a heal once every 20 secs as tank or dd is simply not feasible. The heals you have as dd/tank either have an area restriciton (healing seeds, mushrooms, vigor, orbs,etc ), are single target (lotus flower,+ you need somebody capable of weaving, and the tank will never get it), or doesn't count as "your heal" (lifesteal of vines). So even if I am sacrificing one slot to buff my group, the additional restrictions will make it only worthwhile in fights that can be very well controlled (stacking/positioniong). And usually it is the fights where you cannot do this where the buff is actually needed.

So please, PLEASE, if you want Warden to have this unique buff only, make it applicable in a way a DD or tank can manage without gimping themselves really hard.

^THIS. Please don't nerf warhorn, give wardens something they bring to the table as a DPS instead. Nerfing warhorn makes other classes less desirable for healers while still not making wardens that desirable for end game content. Also, please don't go through with the damage nerf to the warden bear, even if you go through with the damage nerfs to the other skills. Stamwarden comes out ok with these changes but magwarden is getting nerfed where they really don't need to be.

Anhedonie · September 2018

Fethcher Flies - Growing Swarm is the morph nobody uses. Convert it into stamina, poison morph. This will improve stamina aoe capabilities and make the warden more interesting.

OtarTheMad · September 2018

For those that miss the old Arctic Wind they could just add damage to the other version of Frost Cloak (Expansive Frost Cloak) and give some damage bonus to Arctic Wind to keep Ice Mages in the mix.

ZOS please add in some damage on Arctic Wind so it benefits Magdens a lot more and if you want take away the heal (on that morph), magicka players have access to a ton of heals from the Green Balance line to Resto so it's not needed.

LeHarrt91 · September 2018

Bear Change:
If the damage reduction of the Bear was to close the gap between Non-Bear Warden and Bear Warden, you went about it the wrong way. If anything making Northern Storm better would have been the way, increase the damage it deals or give it another passive effect to increase dps.
Or move the execute to a different skill.

Swarm:
specifically Fetcher Infection. Make the damage scale every second or every 2 seconds up to 50% on EVERY cast.

Or increase Piecing Cold passive to compensate Magicka Warden for Bear loss.

Amdar_Godkiller · September 2018

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

I was gonna say that I love all of these changes, but there's one I really don't like:

Feral Guardian: Decreased the damage done by the bear summoned from this ability and its morphs by approximately 30%.

Why? Such a huge nerf to our beloved Guardian and we don't even get a developer comment or any explanation on that?

Everything else tho... I love it: we got a stun back with Arctic Blast, better sustain with the cost decrease on Scorch and the buff to Netch, increased Magicka Warden PvE DPS and Wardens finally bringing a useful buff to the group now that War Horn doesn't give Minor Toughness.

You guys did listen and did a great job on the Warden. Thank you.

35% damage nerf will simply kill bear use and ZOS will buff again sometime in futurr so what's this nerf for?

Bear will be useful now in pvp now that you can target it with the gap-closing heal. That's a powerful self HOT that can be used in 1v1 situations now.

Amdar_Godkiller · September 2018

olsborg wrote: »

HM, stamwarden was already #1 in pvp, as far as I could see in the patch notes...they got buffed? errhh...wtf?

They were no where near top in pvp, they're just the top stam class against light armor ranged builds. They are the worst stam class against melee builds.

Amdar_Godkiller · September 2018

Starlock wrote: »

I am unable to use PTS because console users are left out of this process, but our voices matter so I am adding mine. For context, I currently have a couple of wardens. I've played my plucky archer the most - she's a stamina build and werewolf. I don't PvP much, but she is my go-to PvP character and in dungeons I run her as a stam healer (yes, it works). My other warden I may delete and rebuild, but she's a tree hugging healer. She's intended to be my main healer, but I haven't spent as much time with her.
Advanced Species changes are nice. Thank you!

Betty Netch giving more resources feels... overtuned. However, it's difficult to tell without PTS access, and my archer is also built around having high stamina recovery as she's a dodge rolling maniac.

Dive changes will make the abilities more intuitive. I still miss the days of them being undodgeable, but that also didn't make sense and was a good change.

The changes to Falcon's Swiftness make me really excited. I would use it on my archer because it felt signature even if it wasn't that great, but now it is just awesome.

None of my wardens use Feral Guardian so I can't comment on the changes one way or another.

I really miss the stun that used to be on Scortch. I understand that it isn't coming back, and am not sure a cost reduction really makes up for that loss.

I fell in love with Swarm for my healer as a nice low-cost way of adding a bit of damage to the fight. I'm not sure a cost increase will make this as worthwhile for her.

The Maturation changes are interesting. It will add some neat flavor to my healer. I think this will be neat!

The new Arctic Blast looks interesting, but I don't use that ability on either of my characters as it doesn't fit them. I might try this on my healer so she has a defense mechanism to protect herself?

Thanks for fixing the Impaling Shards visuals. It would get a little confusing sometimes.

Netch only gives an extra 90 stam/mag per second. That's just an extra 180 recovery. How is that overtuned?

IxSTALKERxI · September 2018

Rip you ruined my warden build

Arctic Blast was a really useful pbaoe dot that was one of the few ways to deal ice damage.

On pts, it no longer does any damage, in fact you can't even cast it unless you have an opponent to target, so you can't even use it to heal yourself between fights or when running away... It's so bad now. I used permafrost as my stun previously. Also if you wanted a stun you could use destructive clench.

SilverIce58 · September 2018

Anhedonie wrote: »

Fethcher Flies - Growing Swarm is the morph nobody uses. Convert it into stamina, poison morph. This will improve stamina aoe capabilities and make the warden more interesting.

Not nobody, I use Growing Swarm. Like i said earlier, its great against trash mobs. Maybe I'd be for making it a stamina ability, but only if it has a lost cost. What it already does + poison sounds pretty nice actually.

Anhedonie · September 2018

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Fethcher Flies - Growing Swarm is the morph nobody uses. Convert it into stamina, poison morph. This will improve stamina aoe capabilities and make the warden more interesting.

Not nobody, I use Growing Swarm. Like i said earlier, its great against trash mobs. Maybe I'd be for making it a stamina ability, but only if it has a lost cost. What it already does + poison sounds pretty nice actually.

Scorch + winter's revenge will do the job a lot faster than throwing this dot around.

Amdar_Godkiller · September 2018

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Fethcher Flies - Growing Swarm is the morph nobody uses. Convert it into stamina, poison morph. This will improve stamina aoe capabilities and make the warden more interesting.

Not nobody, I use Growing Swarm. Like i said earlier, its great against trash mobs. Maybe I'd be for making it a stamina ability, but only if it has a lost cost. What it already does + poison sounds pretty nice actually.

The morph nobody should use is the one that has to be cast twice to do maximum damage. It's a dps loss to do so. That's the PVP morph. The one that spreads is ridiculously OP in PVE and also really fun to use with sloads in pvp when countersieging.

SilverIce58 · September 2018

Anhedonie wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Fethcher Flies - Growing Swarm is the morph nobody uses. Convert it into stamina, poison morph. This will improve stamina aoe capabilities and make the warden more interesting.

Not nobody, I use Growing Swarm. Like i said earlier, its great against trash mobs. Maybe I'd be for making it a stamina ability, but only if it has a lost cost. What it already does + poison sounds pretty nice actually.

Scorch + winter's revenge will do the job a lot faster than throwing this dot around.

I've tried it, and it's not imo. Swarm + WR is nice tho, and this combo lets you run past dying mobs, instead of facing a group of them. With GS, I can swarm up the whole delve/public dgn, and it spreads to others, so they have 2 swarms on them. I like it. I wouldn't actually use it in pvp (i did in bgs, but i was leveling), since people aren't trash mobs.

Amdar_Godkiller · September 2018

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

SilverIce58 wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

Fethcher Flies - Growing Swarm is the morph nobody uses. Convert it into stamina, poison morph. This will improve stamina aoe capabilities and make the warden more interesting.

Not nobody, I use Growing Swarm. Like i said earlier, its great against trash mobs. Maybe I'd be for making it a stamina ability, but only if it has a lost cost. What it already does + poison sounds pretty nice actually.

Scorch + winter's revenge will do the job a lot faster than throwing this dot around.

I've tried it, and it's not imo. Swarm + WR is nice tho, and this combo lets you run past dying mobs, instead of facing a group of them. With GS, I can swarm up the whole delve/public dgn, and it spreads to others, so they have 2 swarms on them. I like it. I wouldn't actually use it in pvp (i did in bgs, but i was leveling), since people aren't trash mobs.

It's not useful against organized zergs, but it's pretty damn clutch when you're soloing resources and countersieging.

Anhedonie · September 2018

Also, about healing aspects of the warden.

-Make Budding Seeds 2nd activation ignore global cooldown. It will make this skill less clunky and it might see some use in pve.

-Nature's Grasp. Make it into reverse growing swarm. Make it heal a target over time and then spread to 4 most wounded targets around and heal them for the same amount. 1000 times better than what does now.

YoshinJaa · September 2018

Console user, but can someone test the following and post combat metrics?

- Using Northern Storm front/Ice Comet back (instead of 2x Bear) and compare the dps loss (if any). Also could check destro backbar.
- Comparing Deep Fissure/Screaming Cliff Racer/Elemental Weapon as a spammable

Weps · September 2018

Too many undeserved buffs that will send them into the stratosphere.

Some of those are goods tho, they will make them viable and wanted in PvE both for buffs and damage but also too strong in PvP. Again.

Could you please make a little bit more effort to balance them for PvP while keeping the buffs?

Anhedonie · September 2018

Also, please move 8% max magicka bonus to passives and rework northern storm.

Drygon · September 2018

Changes go in a good direction i feel.
I have posted this coment in a pool thread, but seeing as this is the official feedback post i will leave it here as maybe it gives some ideas and helps.

The new arctic blast is way too clunky, needs a smoother animation that would actualy make sense and the heal can be removed ( let the other morph do the healing), and add frost Dmg on impact this way it would help Magicka wardens quite a bit, also make it scale off magicka(obviosly) and it won't help at all stamina wardens.

Now, I like the Passive dmg buff and the Bear DPS loss is to counter that, and it is fine only that the bear needs to teleport near the target that gets targeted by the ultimate active, this can be a good mobility mechanic ( combined with the new nature grasp), and counter the AI problems.

Swarm cost icreased is welcome, i've been using growing swarm and i had no penality to spam it in pvp, now it is better.

Shimmering shield could use a 4.5 seconds major heroism, see how that works.

Icy Aura needs to be reworked, really, that ability is not even worth two skillpoints atm. Make it part of Glacial presence or remove it and add something else that will benefit the magicka warden as that is the spec that needs the most help like something called Shatter: When you deal critical frost direct damage to an imobilized target, it shatters receaving X DMG and gets debuffed with minor Breach and Minor Fracture for X seconds. This ability can proc once every X seconds. This would buff both magicka warden and PVe warden tanks.

Now, tanks still need their reliable aoe damage to proc minor maim seeeing that they no longer have it from ARctic blast, and healers and MAgicka wardens and stamina wardens could use a lower survivability, so what i sugest is reduce the dmg mitigation of ice fortress to 6% and increase its range to 18 meters and decrease the range of expansive (maybe rename it) frost cloak to 6 (or 8 needs actual testing) meters and give it the aoe dmg that scale on max health (4% would be a good start) that proc once every four seconds each time the character blocks some dmg. This would actualy help frost tanking. Maybe add block cost reduction passive to compensete for the loss on the other morph like 4% block cost reduction. Now tanks would have to make a real choice between the two morphs and get something from both.

Xerge · September 2018

swap new passive bird buff to bear to make up for nerf.
Give bird buff an execute component.

Thanks.

BlackLabel · September 2018

Stam Warden is going to be the best stam spec by far this patch and it’s a shame..

_Ahala_ · September 2018

Drygon wrote: »

Changes go in a good direction i feel.
I have posted this coment in a pool thread, but seeing as this is the official feedback post i will leave it here as maybe it gives some ideas and helps.

The new arctic blast is way too clunky, needs a smoother animation that would actualy make sense and the heal can be removed ( let the other morph do the healing), and add frost Dmg on impact this way it would help Magicka wardens quite a bit, also make it scale off magicka(obviosly) and it won't help at all stamina wardens.

Now, I like the Passive dmg buff and the Bear DPS loss is to counter that, and it is fine only that the bear needs to teleport near the target that gets targeted by the ultimate active, this can be a good mobility mechanic ( combined with the new nature grasp), and counter the AI problems.

Swarm cost icreased is welcome, i've been using growing swarm and i had no penality to spam it in pvp, now it is better.

Shimmering shield could use a 4.5 seconds major heroism, see how that works.

Icy Aura needs to be reworked, really, that ability is not even worth two skillpoints atm. Make it part of Glacial presence or remove it and add something else that will benefit the magicka warden as that is the spec that needs the most help like something called Shatter: When you deal critical frost direct damage to an imobilized target, it shatters receaving X DMG and gets debuffed with minor Breach and Minor Fracture for X seconds. This ability can proc once every X seconds. This would buff both magicka warden and PVe warden tanks.

Now, tanks still need their reliable aoe damage to proc minor maim seeeing that they no longer have it from ARctic blast, and healers and MAgicka wardens and stamina wardens could use a lower survivability, so what i sugest is reduce the dmg mitigation of ice fortress to 6% and increase its range to 18 meters and decrease the range of expansive (maybe rename it) frost cloak to 6 (or 8 needs actual testing) meters and give it the aoe dmg that scale on max health (4% would be a good start) that proc once every four seconds each time the character blocks some dmg. This would actualy help frost tanking. Maybe add block cost reduction passive to compensete for the loss on the other morph like 4% block cost reduction. Now tanks would have to make a real choice between the two morphs and get something from both.

I agree with you on all accounts full heartidly, however when it comes to Icy Aura I actually really want them to keep the snare reduction for Magden... If they could buff Icy Aura to 30% that would be even better as it would give Light Armor Magden so much snare reduction next patch that they would actually have a shot at surviving zerglings without having to rely on Dampen/Harness... this buff also really wouldn’t do much to help our Stamden overlords either as they run forward momentum anyways... but then again... a burning light type passive for ice damage is so tempting

SilverIce58 · September 2018

Can we get a buff to that passive where if one of your pets are killed or unsummoned you restore health? Maybe have it restore 10-15 percent of our max health or something like that (I'm not good with the numbers portion of skills). It just feels like the amount of health gained from summoning and resummoning the netch is negligible.

Drygon · September 2018

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Drygon wrote: »

Changes go in a good direction i feel.
I have posted this coment in a pool thread, but seeing as this is the official feedback post i will leave it here as maybe it gives some ideas and helps.

The new arctic blast is way too clunky, needs a smoother animation that would actualy make sense and the heal can be removed ( let the other morph do the healing), and add frost Dmg on impact this way it would help Magicka wardens quite a bit, also make it scale off magicka(obviosly) and it won't help at all stamina wardens.

Now, I like the Passive dmg buff and the Bear DPS loss is to counter that, and it is fine only that the bear needs to teleport near the target that gets targeted by the ultimate active, this can be a good mobility mechanic ( combined with the new nature grasp), and counter the AI problems.

Swarm cost icreased is welcome, i've been using growing swarm and i had no penality to spam it in pvp, now it is better.

Shimmering shield could use a 4.5 seconds major heroism, see how that works.

Icy Aura needs to be reworked, really, that ability is not even worth two skillpoints atm. Make it part of Glacial presence or remove it and add something else that will benefit the magicka warden as that is the spec that needs the most help like something called Shatter: When you deal critical frost direct damage to an imobilized target, it shatters receaving X DMG and gets debuffed with minor Breach and Minor Fracture for X seconds. This ability can proc once every X seconds. This would buff both magicka warden and PVe warden tanks.

Now, tanks still need their reliable aoe damage to proc minor maim seeeing that they no longer have it from ARctic blast, and healers and MAgicka wardens and stamina wardens could use a lower survivability, so what i sugest is reduce the dmg mitigation of ice fortress to 6% and increase its range to 18 meters and decrease the range of expansive (maybe rename it) frost cloak to 6 (or 8 needs actual testing) meters and give it the aoe dmg that scale on max health (4% would be a good start) that proc once every four seconds each time the character blocks some dmg. This would actualy help frost tanking. Maybe add block cost reduction passive to compensete for the loss on the other morph like 4% block cost reduction. Now tanks would have to make a real choice between the two morphs and get something from both.

I agree with you on all accounts full heartidly, however when it comes to Icy Aura I actually really want them to keep the snare reduction for Magden... If they could buff Icy Aura to 30% that would be even better as it would give Light Armor Magden so much snare reduction next patch that they would actually have a shot at surviving zerglings without having to rely on Dampen/Harness... this buff also really wouldn’t do much to help our Stamden overlords either as they run forward momentum anyways... but then again... a burning light type passive for ice damage is so tempting

Even without a buff, they could integrate the current one into glacial presence, it should be enough seeing as beeing a littel faster is not enough to fight a zerg. Shimmering shield and ice fortress nerfs/changes would be welcomed too as they would mostly be a nerf for stamden that can't spam shimmering. A small nerf for us the fortress but the Shatter passive should compensate for it. I sugested those changes keeping in mind both pvp and pve, henge the new expansive frostcloack morph that is mainly Pve aimed but can also be used in some interesting ways in pvp too. Same with the Shater passive that requires quite a few conditions, for PVE dps and PVP burst.

Also, It will be a cool novelty thing, without too big of an impact if monster helm pets would activate animal companion heal, this could make players use some more diverse pet builds on wardens.

Using the oportunity of this reply i wanted to add the above ^_^.

Really hope ZOS will notice.

BeefyMrTips · September 2018

Anyone have some numbers on PTS DPS they are looking at?