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What defines a "TANK" in the Group Finder? (+personal story)
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Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@DuskMarine , kicking people because they're doing dungeon quest? That sounds like an awesome way to get reported and suspended. I'm totally for you doing it, we need to get that natural selection thing do its stuff. ^^
its not against the tos your hilarious. you can boot someone for litterally breathing if you feel like it. and ive kicked so many people for dilly dallying before cause im in a hurry to get done and so are most of the teams i roll with. you want to do story join a rp guild or a guild that achievement hunts. otherwise your just screwing veterans who already have it done over by being slow which is more than justified to boot you.
actually it can be considered griefing which is against the tos.Long time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.0 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭Why do people have these notions of "my time is more important than yours" in a group setting? Unless you have something irl, play to the group.
I'm amazed at some of the responses. "you slow, I kick you." it's like... Dude, go solo it yourself.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!7 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@DuskMarine , kicking people because they're doing dungeon quest? That sounds like an awesome way to get reported and suspended. I'm totally for you doing it, we need to get that natural selection thing do its stuff. ^^
its not against the tos your hilarious. you can boot someone for litterally breathing if you feel like it. and ive kicked so many people for dilly dallying before cause im in a hurry to get done and so are most of the teams i roll with. you want to do story join a rp guild or a guild that achievement hunts. otherwise your just screwing veterans who already have it done over by being slow which is more than justified to boot you.
actually it can be considered griefing which is against the tos.
actually no it cant be you need to go look up the definition of greifing. deciding a player doesnt meet your standards thus you boot them is not a form of griefing.0 -
Merlin13KAGL wrote: »
@McCloskey10_5_13 the only thing this 'guarantees' is that the mobs will enter combat.McCloskey10_5_13 wrote: »there is *no* aoe taunt in the game.
caltrops, endless hail, nothing's gonna get all the mobs on me, i aggro them, they go for you squishy dps. there is no threat no hate mechanics in the game, it's just taunted or not taunted. and we only have single target taunt.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/391895/a-guide-to-aggro
If I'm reading this right, an initial AOE should give you ~7 seconds of aggro from anyone it touches, which you should be able to maintain as long as you keep a DOT ticking on them (mechanics aside). This is why people use those AOE DOTs like caltrops or blockade to open. So as long as your group lets you strike first, it seems like you will have unlimited 7 second AOE taunts using whatever AOE you want, as long as you keep the DOT rolling.
Beyond that, it's usually a combination of line of sight and proximity/distance. If the tank is the closest one, they'll often head there first. There is nothing, other than a proper taunt that guarantees them to stay.
I must have written that poorly, because I wasn't trying to imply some of the things you seem to think I was. I probably should have called it a "taunt" or soft taunt, or something, because I know it doesn't replace an actual taunt on high priority enemies.
I was simply responding to conjecture about how aggro works with a post I had seen with some aggro testing and my interpretation of their results. I have no idea if they are even correct, but the 7 seconds after touch rule seems to have been consistent with my experience and the tests they did seem pretty consistent, at least for those circumstances.
Maybe adds in different places have different aggro mechanics, I particularly have noticed those in newer dungeons seem to run past me more often, such as the wolves at the beginning of MHK. I just chalked it up to someone aggroing them that I hadn't noticed.This is intuitive how? If someone walks up to a group and hits them with a large feather pillow, it may draw their attention and provoke. If someone or someones then proceed to hit the same with 10 pound sledgehammers, who do you think is really going to keep aggro?
You're misunderstanding. I was using "Shouldn't" as in, "If these tests are correct, we shouldn't notice DPS mattering," not, "I don't believe DPS should matter." I totally agree with your logic, and I think the main thing that aggros a mob should be who has taken the most percentage of it's health.
Ideally this would keep them in combat with the person they are engaged with, only to break if another player is truly more of a threat to them. There would still need to be some sort of timer though, to keep them from jittering between two aggressors unnaturally. They could also add more personality to different adds. Maybe Banekin hate ice and would prioritize anyone who damaged them with frost over standard damage. Things like that would be cool. Anything to seem more natural.If taunt wasn't necessary, no one would bother using taunt.
Now what you may experience is that as long as distance from group is sufficient, and continued damage is applied, it may appear that mobs stay aggro'd without taunt. Axes in vAA are a prime example of this scenario, and will happily slip away from time to time if proper taunt is not applied.
Yeah I believe it's necessary too, I was just trying to point out that those trash mobs you won't taunt anyway might stay with you, like you had the aoe taunt that doesn't exist, if you kept up a DOT IF the tests in that post are correct. I don't recall if they tested distance off the top of my head.TL;DR; You're gambling. If it's a trash mob, it may not be a big deal. If it's a boss, a mini-boss, or a heavy hitter, saving some resources may end up wiping your party..
Trust me, there's a good chance I will end up wiping my squad in a myriad of different ways, it just happens that relying on DOTs for taunt isn't one of them. ^^1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »Why do people have these notions of "my time is more important than yours" in a group setting? Unless you have something irl, play to the group.
I'm amazed at some of the responses. "you slow, I kick you." it's like... Dude, go solo it yourself.
It is the sense of entitlement many have yet neither earned nor deserve.7 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another post about fake tanks.
Seems to be an epidemic.
Which is weird because I’ve seen at least 5 other people wearing Ebon Armory at any one time when I’m in Wayrest or Elden Root.
They must only tank for friends then.
I dunno maybe if the old dungeons could actually use a tank we’d see more of them instead of this pervasive attitude of “4 dds is better yuk yuk yuk”
The old dungeons still need tanks.
I just got done doing a veteran banished cells I and I think my "tank" (if that's what you want to call him) pretty much stayed dead the entire fight because he was one of those DPS characters who think all you need is a taunt to be a tank and kept getting instant killed.
I ended up having to tank the boss most of the time on my healer. We won, but that's only because I"m a high level character decked out in CP. If I had been a lower level healer I would have likely died.
Tanks are suppose to be defensive characters contrary to the popular belief on this game they are just damage dealers with taunts. Like you say, I don't know where this idea that four damage dealers is the ideal set up for dungeons. Because it isn't.Edited by Jeremy on September 8, 2018 10:28AM3 -
Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@DuskMarine , kicking people because they're doing dungeon quest? That sounds like an awesome way to get reported and suspended. I'm totally for you doing it, we need to get that natural selection thing do its stuff. ^^
its not against the tos your hilarious. you can boot someone for litterally breathing if you feel like it. and ive kicked so many people for dilly dallying before cause im in a hurry to get done and so are most of the teams i roll with. you want to do story join a rp guild or a guild that achievement hunts. otherwise your just screwing veterans who already have it done over by being slow which is more than justified to boot you.
actually it can be considered griefing which is against the tos.
actually no it cant be you need to go look up the definition of greifing. deciding a player doesnt meet your standards thus you boot them is not a form of griefing.
depends what you can kick them for, and you leave evidence like "omg i'm not here to quest, leave noob" and vote kick can be seen as griefing. If you vote kick a person who is trying to do a dungeon quest, vote kicking prevents them from getting it completed. That is griefing, and disruption of play.
I've talked to gm in multiple mmo, and each gm stated as such. You can vote kick people who are trolling, or performing poorly. but vote kicking them just for wishing to do a quest can be seen as harassment.Long time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.1 -
Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »Why do people have these notions of "my time is more important than yours" in a group setting? Unless you have something irl, play to the group.
I'm amazed at some of the responses. "you slow, I kick you." it's like... Dude, go solo it yourself.
ya i know, since WoW made mmo mainstream the "i got a real life" subset of players took over mmo communities. I recall in ff11 from 2004-2008 had the best community. Asking fir help, forming networks, and people going out of there way to help was the norm, as we all are/were in the same boat. Helping others also helps ourselfs as more people on the same page who are taught positive attitude and play means less likely you run into a "fake" aka bad player.
For some reason people see playing as a competition, they have to be first, when working as a team is not about being first, but helping each other out.
The more people who stop and help with quest, the better off people are. Plus they can add people as friends and help each other out in getting better, but also getting farming done faster.
The more people treat new players like shi, the less likely new players are going to stay, and less likely they will be good as they spent most of their game being put down for being new.Long time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »Why do people have these notions of "my time is more important than yours" in a group setting? Unless you have something irl, play to the group.
I'm amazed at some of the responses. "you slow, I kick you." it's like... Dude, go solo it yourself.
ya i know, since WoW made mmo mainstream the "i got a real life" subset of players took over mmo communities. I recall in ff11 from 2004-2008 had the best community. Asking fir help, forming networks, and people going out of there way to help was the norm, as we all are/were in the same boat. Helping others also helps ourselfs as more people on the same page who are taught positive attitude and play means less likely you run into a "fake" aka bad player.
For some reason people see playing as a competition, they have to be first, when working as a team is not about being first, but helping each other out.
The more people who stop and help with quest, the better off people are. Plus they can add people as friends and help each other out in getting better, but also getting farming done faster.
The more people treat new players like shi, the less likely new players are going to stay, and less likely they will be good as they spent most of their game being put down for being new.
I have a theory about that.
In the old days (on games like Final Fantasy 11) you needed other players to succeed. So if you went around treating everyone like shi_ and made a lot of enemies you usually didn't get very far. So that encouraged others to be nicer.
These newer MMOs are a lot more convenient - but they also lack a sense of community as a result.2 -
Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »Why do people have these notions of "my time is more important than yours" in a group setting? Unless you have something irl, play to the group.
I'm amazed at some of the responses. "you slow, I kick you." it's like... Dude, go solo it yourself.
ya i know, since WoW made mmo mainstream the "i got a real life" subset of players took over mmo communities. I recall in ff11 from 2004-2008 had the best community. Asking fir help, forming networks, and people going out of there way to help was the norm, as we all are/were in the same boat. Helping others also helps ourselfs as more people on the same page who are taught positive attitude and play means less likely you run into a "fake" aka bad player.
For some reason people see playing as a competition, they have to be first, when working as a team is not about being first, but helping each other out.
The more people who stop and help with quest, the better off people are. Plus they can add people as friends and help each other out in getting better, but also getting farming done faster.
The more people treat new players like shi, the less likely new players are going to stay, and less likely they will be good as they spent most of their game being put down for being new.
I have a theory about that.
In the old days (on games like Final Fantasy 11) you needed other players to succeed. So if you went around treating everyone like shi_ and made a lot of enemies you usually didn't get very far. So that encouraged others to be nicer.
These newer MMOs are a lot more convenient - but they also lack a sense of community as a result.
not a theory, it proven fact. Look up a youtuber sobardwarf he did a documentary explaining how difficulty made a community.
Thing is though, you do need players in group dungeons, treating people like npc, or as if you never see them again is poor play. In df on ff14 i ran into the same people who are on different servers pretty often.
tbh no matter the mmo you do need others to succeed, just it later in the leveling. WoW started the trend of solo quest to level. where as older mmo required groups to form and kill for exp. tbh i prefer the kill to lvl vs questing to lvl it makes no sense that being a delivery person makes you stronger. Going out to train by fighting harder and harder monsters makes you stronger.
heck even kratos in the new god of war pokes at that concept, as almost any side quest you get he has one liners about not doing it, but enjoys killing and exploring for resources.Long time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.0 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »Why do people have these notions of "my time is more important than yours" in a group setting? Unless you have something irl, play to the group.
I'm amazed at some of the responses. "you slow, I kick you." it's like... Dude, go solo it yourself.
ya i know, since WoW made mmo mainstream the "i got a real life" subset of players took over mmo communities. I recall in ff11 from 2004-2008 had the best community. Asking fir help, forming networks, and people going out of there way to help was the norm, as we all are/were in the same boat. Helping others also helps ourselfs as more people on the same page who are taught positive attitude and play means less likely you run into a "fake" aka bad player.
For some reason people see playing as a competition, they have to be first, when working as a team is not about being first, but helping each other out.
The more people who stop and help with quest, the better off people are. Plus they can add people as friends and help each other out in getting better, but also getting farming done faster.
The more people treat new players like shi, the less likely new players are going to stay, and less likely they will be good as they spent most of their game being put down for being new.
I have a theory about that.
In the old days (on games like Final Fantasy 11) you needed other players to succeed. So if you went around treating everyone like shi_ and made a lot of enemies you usually didn't get very far. So that encouraged others to be nicer.
These newer MMOs are a lot more convenient - but they also lack a sense of community as a result.
not a theory, it proven fact. Look up a youtuber sobardwarf he did a documentary explaining how difficulty made a community.
Thing is though, you do need players in group dungeons, treating people like npc, or as if you never see them again is poor play. In df on ff14 i ran into the same people who are on different servers pretty often.
tbh no matter the mmo you do need others to succeed, just it later in the leveling. WoW started the trend of solo quest to level. where as older mmo required groups to form and kill for exp. tbh i prefer the kill to lvl vs questing to lvl it makes no sense that being a delivery person makes you stronger. Going out to train by fighting harder and harder monsters makes you stronger.
heck even kratos in the new god of war pokes at that concept, as almost any side quest you get he has one liners about not doing it, but enjoys killing and exploring for resources.
Actually, vanilla wow is definitely much much different than the iteration that you have right now. Vanilla wow required you to group up in certain areas and it certainly needed a proper tank and a proper healer for dungeons. It was when they changed the gameplay right after BC when it became the easy fest you see right now.
Its not the rise of casual mmos, its the rise of competitive gaming that's giving all these players reason to say "I'm a better player than you so listen to me" and the all time fav "You cant even reach **** lvl, git gud".
Is competitive gaming bad? Nope, it's the reason why gaming now has a good following all over the world. But competition naturally will make some people have tunnel vision and to hell with you if you're in my way.
I'm derailing the thread with this angle of conversation, my apologies op.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!1 -
Azuramoonstar✭✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »Why do people have these notions of "my time is more important than yours" in a group setting? Unless you have something irl, play to the group.
I'm amazed at some of the responses. "you slow, I kick you." it's like... Dude, go solo it yourself.
ya i know, since WoW made mmo mainstream the "i got a real life" subset of players took over mmo communities. I recall in ff11 from 2004-2008 had the best community. Asking fir help, forming networks, and people going out of there way to help was the norm, as we all are/were in the same boat. Helping others also helps ourselfs as more people on the same page who are taught positive attitude and play means less likely you run into a "fake" aka bad player.
For some reason people see playing as a competition, they have to be first, when working as a team is not about being first, but helping each other out.
The more people who stop and help with quest, the better off people are. Plus they can add people as friends and help each other out in getting better, but also getting farming done faster.
The more people treat new players like shi, the less likely new players are going to stay, and less likely they will be good as they spent most of their game being put down for being new.
I have a theory about that.
In the old days (on games like Final Fantasy 11) you needed other players to succeed. So if you went around treating everyone like shi_ and made a lot of enemies you usually didn't get very far. So that encouraged others to be nicer.
These newer MMOs are a lot more convenient - but they also lack a sense of community as a result.
not a theory, it proven fact. Look up a youtuber sobardwarf he did a documentary explaining how difficulty made a community.
Thing is though, you do need players in group dungeons, treating people like npc, or as if you never see them again is poor play. In df on ff14 i ran into the same people who are on different servers pretty often.
tbh no matter the mmo you do need others to succeed, just it later in the leveling. WoW started the trend of solo quest to level. where as older mmo required groups to form and kill for exp. tbh i prefer the kill to lvl vs questing to lvl it makes no sense that being a delivery person makes you stronger. Going out to train by fighting harder and harder monsters makes you stronger.
heck even kratos in the new god of war pokes at that concept, as almost any side quest you get he has one liners about not doing it, but enjoys killing and exploring for resources.
Actually, vanilla wow is definitely much much different than the iteration that you have right now. Vanilla wow required you to group up in certain areas and it certainly needed a proper tank and a proper healer for dungeons. It was when they changed the gameplay right after BC when it became the easy fest you see right now.
Its not the rise of casual mmos, its the rise of competitive gaming that's giving all these players reason to say "I'm a better player than you so listen to me" and the all time fav "You cant even reach **** lvl, git gud".
Is competitive gaming bad? Nope, it's the reason why gaming now has a good following all over the world. But competition naturally will make some people have tunnel vision and to hell with you if you're in my way.
I'm derailing the thread with this angle of conversation, my apologies op.
ya i started after bc before wrath, but it was common knowledge since launch, that wow did was made for the casual gamer (as in those who have less free time, or only play video games as a casual hobby)
More often then not the "i'm better then you, so listen to me" has existed since adults first started teaching children. In more often then not veterans did politely explain they are veterans, and it would be wise to at least hear them out. People just started to twist it because they didn't like being called out and got defensive. the "git good" has existed since the residential use of the internet, and the start of online gaming.
I'm talking competition, as in people want to run ahead of the tank to get first hit to parse high. Group content is not really a place for competition, leave that for pvp.Long time mmo player: 2004-[current year]
Long time Elder scrolls player: Xbox launch morrowind.
Follower of the dawn and dusk, keeper of the moon and star.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ESO is currently set up that below a certain level of experience or skill, you need support roles like a dedicated tank or healer for most dungeon content.
Above a certain level of skill or experience, you dont need a dedicated tank or healer in most content, though you may still benefit from their presence.
However, in certain difficulties of content like vet DLC dungeons, ZOS has upped the difficulty and designed mechanics that require a tank or healer.
So it creates this odd situation, particularly in normal dungeons, where skilled players who don't need tanks or healers wind up grouped with much less skilled/experienced players who still benefit from tanks and healers, and on top of that everyone runs the risk of getting DLC content which requires actual tanks and healers. And everyone has their horror story of times when a tank/healer were needed or the times when they really needed a better DD instead.
There's a reason these topics are a mess. Its because ESO's dungeon difficulty is also a mess.2 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭RavenSworn wrote: »Its not the rise of casual mmos, its the rise of competitive gaming that's giving all these players reason to say "I'm a better player than you so listen to me" and the all time fav "You cant even reach **** lvl, git gud".These newer MMOs are a lot more convenient - but they also lack a sense of community as a result.
I think the issue isn't that gaming is 'competitive' (as it has always been so, to some degree [hell, starting with getting and keeping your initials to the top back in the days of local arcades]); rather, for MMOs, that they have become more co-op than multiplayer.
GF is really just a co-op tool, and in-game matchmaking lobby.
Its no wonder what then that many treat the other 3 as NPCs or fail to even recognise them as three others' with their own agenda, interest, goal, feelings, etc. They are just there for their undaunted keys, transmute stones, XP, and are wanting to get back to their own 'real game,' whether it is PVP, trials, or questing.
I think ZOS needs to either:- Combat it, and make tanks and healers actually required. That fake tank/healer is going to clearly be the weak link if a mechanic requires a taunt, positioning, resistances, or a heal check. Right now, the only metric outside of vet trials and most vet dungeons is DPS. Moar pew pew, or go home.
- Embrace it, and put a buff/debuff on players based on the role they select. If you select tank, you'll get your fast queue, but maybe at the cost of a debuff to damage, and increased threat gen, for example.
0 -
raj72616a✭✭✭✭✭(+ personal story) i just pugged nMoS. not really difficult and not too easy.
as the tank, of course i ran ahead leeroy jenkins style and tell the group to skip trash mobs (and wipe to lose the mobs before each boss).
two others were not very familiar with the dungeon, one other was mute the entire run.
i had to type a bit to remind them of the mechanics, explain the fights, taunt and debuff boss, rez healer and rez dps, and do over 50% of group dps in all boss fights except the first.
was i singlehandedly carrying the group? not quite.
could i have soloed it myself? not really (i have no incentive to try to).
but i do think i'm entitled to ask the group to go at a faster pace (not bothering with clearing all trash and also not the treasure hunts)0 -
DuskMarine✭✭✭✭✭
✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@DuskMarine , kicking people because they're doing dungeon quest? That sounds like an awesome way to get reported and suspended. I'm totally for you doing it, we need to get that natural selection thing do its stuff. ^^
its not against the tos your hilarious. you can boot someone for litterally breathing if you feel like it. and ive kicked so many people for dilly dallying before cause im in a hurry to get done and so are most of the teams i roll with. you want to do story join a rp guild or a guild that achievement hunts. otherwise your just screwing veterans who already have it done over by being slow which is more than justified to boot you.
actually it can be considered griefing which is against the tos.
actually no it cant be you need to go look up the definition of greifing. deciding a player doesnt meet your standards thus you boot them is not a form of griefing.
depends what you can kick them for, and you leave evidence like "omg i'm not here to quest, leave noob" and vote kick can be seen as griefing. If you vote kick a person who is trying to do a dungeon quest, vote kicking prevents them from getting it completed. That is griefing, and disruption of play.
I've talked to gm in multiple mmo, and each gm stated as such. You can vote kick people who are trolling, or performing poorly. but vote kicking them just for wishing to do a quest can be seen as harassment.
wrong again. to vote kick someone you can kick them just because you dont like them you dont have to give them the reason your gonna boot them. people boot people on a regular basis cause your either gonna follow the kill train or we dont need you. if you think we should give you a chance and your just wasting our time your sadly mistaken. most veterans want to get it done out the way so they can move on. cause its gonna come down to you want to do the quest join a guild dont clog up the dungeon finder.0 -
Jayman1000✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Normally I would kick people like this as a matter of principle.RavenSworn wrote: »Why do people have these notions of "my time is more important than yours" in a group setting? Unless you have something irl, play to the group.
I'm amazed at some of the responses. "you slow, I kick you." it's like... Dude, go solo it yourself.
Can't. If you want the daily dungeon rewards, you must use the dungeon finder.0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭A neutral alternative to this would be to group people who have not completed the quest with others who have not completed the quest, and vice versa.
This would at least eliminate the issue some people still have with quest completion vs rush.Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS1 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
@McCloskey10_5_13 no worries.McCloskey10_5_13 wrote: »Trust me, there's a good chance I will end up wiping my squad in a myriad of different ways, it just happens that relying on DOTs for taunt isn't one of them. ^^
First hit usually gets aggro. How long that remains valid probably comes down to the frequency with which mobs are coded to choose a target. Could be once per second, could be every 6-7. It could also be different for trash mobs vs bosses, etc.
It will work for initial pull a lot of the time. As you already know, "threat' is handled differently in this game than most others, so in the long run, use what works for you.
It is a way to save on resources, (long running AoE DoTs like Ash Cloud, and previously Caltrops). Even Life Steal (Blood Altar) used to be considered a debuff before they fixed it, drawing aggro at extremely large range.
As long as you can grab the ones that get away, you're good.
As far as your myriad goes, so long as you're continuing to try to improve, that's the key thing. You're asking questions, so that tells me you are.
Best of luck!
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
Lieblingsjunge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here's a tank for me:
Has taunt slotted. Goes in and taunt the hardest hitting mobs and bosses. That's all I expect from a pug-tank. Maybe just even taunts the bosses and ignores mobs. Also works.Ignorance is the greatest weapon of tyranny.
PC - EU.
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My title: The Maneater, Destroyer of Maneuvers, Bane of Potatoes, she who devours them, The Black Hole, the humorless, first of her name.0 -
AhPook_Is_Here✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Giraffon , thing is, that would amount to ZOS openly and officially admitting their inability to design content that actually requires all roles, or even just better done with all roles. I don't see it happening. Though I will admit that the idea of gathering all the fakes in one place and separating them from people who enjoy normal group composition does appeal to me. ^^
Are you saying they have heard the chimes at midnight?“Whatever.”
-Unknown American0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Now requirements is different in nBC1 and vet fang lair.Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Here's a tank for me:
Has taunt slotted. Goes in and taunt the hardest hitting mobs and bosses. That's all I expect from a pug-tank. Maybe just even taunts the bosses and ignores mobs. Also works.
Helped friend farm weapon in blackheart haven normal I healed he as fake tank, I felt it over an real tank.
Even the cp180 tank in vCoS guild run who did not know that HM was so we ended up doing HM by accident
yes we had some very good DD to help at that point.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
ruikkarikun✭✭✭✭✭I know tey won't do anything, but again. Got fake tank, WGT... Waited 20+ minutes. Nice game.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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You can also just equip it before cashing in quests or doing dolmens.
Someone taught you wrong.I didn't feel like explaining I wanted to get killing blows on non-boss enemies with bow to level the skill line as I was taught to do because I'm below level 50 in skill-line and level.
Just put a bow skill on the bar and experience points you get while on that bar will raise that individual skill and the bow skill line. You don’t need killing blows because it functions on experience points. You don’t need to have a bow equipped, the experience points apply to the bar skills.
Yes, this means you can raise the bow skill line all the way to 50 by running destro resto and only slotting snipe on one bar. It’s faster if it’s on both bars. Faster still if there’s more than one skill on both bars because then the skill line is getting multiple ‘portions’ of the xp you earn.
But that killing blow stuff is just nonsense
Not sure if the quest part work for master writs but i almost assume so.
If some confirm we have an winner.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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Also you will be running the dungeons a lot, I have no issues dropping an quest as I want an better experience but I'm way past cp cap and have more skillpoints than I can use on mains.Jayman1000 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@VaranisArano , falls under the chapter of disrupting other players' experience. "...conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service..." - kicking people for doing quests fits here perfectly, and I absolutely approve of reporting players for it.
If someone in your group does not play the way you like then you are free to to votekick them. Votekicking because someone, through the dungeon finder, wants to do quest taking a lot otime, can hardly be called disrupting others playing experience. Reporting for this is imo tangent to abuse of the report system, especially if done consistently. What about the the playing experience of the guy that just wants the dungeon complete as fast as possible? I dont think his experience is less worthy than the guy that wants to do the quests at snails pace? Imo both hold equal value to their game play experience, and both have equal rights to initiate a vote kick the other if they do not want to play with him/her for any reason whatsoever (The exception being votekicking simply to grief of course.). Opinions on how morally justifiable one or the other may be may vary, but from a TOS point of view you can votekick for whatever reason you may wish, bar griefing.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
adeptusminor✭✭✭✭OP, dude was an obvious jerk, but if the other dps was seriously only pulling 3k, that's bad. Really bad. I would honestly think I was being trolled and they were intentionally pulling low numbers to drag the run out as long as possible or something. I can't even imagine how someone could only pull 3k. That's like only doing a single heavy attack every 20 seconds or something.0
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Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »Why do people have these notions of "my time is more important than yours" in a group setting? Unless you have something irl, play to the group.
I'm amazed at some of the responses. "you slow, I kick you." it's like... Dude, go solo it yourself.
ya i know, since WoW made mmo mainstream the "i got a real life" subset of players took over mmo communities. I recall in ff11 from 2004-2008 had the best community. Asking fir help, forming networks, and people going out of there way to help was the norm, as we all are/were in the same boat. Helping others also helps ourselfs as more people on the same page who are taught positive attitude and play means less likely you run into a "fake" aka bad player.
For some reason people see playing as a competition, they have to be first, when working as a team is not about being first, but helping each other out.
The more people who stop and help with quest, the better off people are. Plus they can add people as friends and help each other out in getting better, but also getting farming done faster.
The more people treat new players like shi, the less likely new players are going to stay, and less likely they will be good as they spent most of their game being put down for being new.
I have a theory about that.
In the old days (on games like Final Fantasy 11) you needed other players to succeed. So if you went around treating everyone like shi_ and made a lot of enemies you usually didn't get very far. So that encouraged others to be nicer.
These newer MMOs are a lot more convenient - but they also lack a sense of community as a result.
not a theory, it proven fact. Look up a youtuber sobardwarf he did a documentary explaining how difficulty made a community.
Thing is though, you do need players in group dungeons, treating people like npc, or as if you never see them again is poor play. In df on ff14 i ran into the same people who are on different servers pretty often.
tbh no matter the mmo you do need others to succeed, just it later in the leveling. WoW started the trend of solo quest to level. where as older mmo required groups to form and kill for exp. tbh i prefer the kill to lvl vs questing to lvl it makes no sense that being a delivery person makes you stronger. Going out to train by fighting harder and harder monsters makes you stronger.
heck even kratos in the new god of war pokes at that concept, as almost any side quest you get he has one liners about not doing it, but enjoys killing and exploring for resources.
You don't really need other players to complete dungeons on this game though. At least not on any kind of consistent basis. You can just toss one of the players from the group and then replace them like an appliance that's acting up. So there isn't much of an incentive to be nice to one another or to try and help a player get better. It's easier just to boot them and then replace them. That was my point.
They system is convenient and makes grouping a lot easier. But it also makes players a lot more expendable.
As far as leveling - you're right. You can easily attain max level on this game solo. That would have been nearly impossible on older MMORPGSs.Edited by Jeremy on September 8, 2018 10:54PM0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭adeptusminor wrote: »OP, dude was an obvious jerk, but if the other dps was seriously only pulling 3k, that's bad. Really bad. I would honestly think I was being trolled and they were intentionally pulling low numbers to drag the run out as long as possible or something. I can't even imagine how someone could only pull 3k. That's like only doing a single heavy attack every 20 seconds or something.
Inexperienced pre-CP player using gear they found 15 levels ago spamming heaving attacks with no knowledge of how buffs work who likely is just entering dungeons for the very first time not fully understanding what they're getting into.
That would be my guess. Not something to get so worked up over IMO. I mean, those are the people that those normal dungeons are aimed at. Everyone was like that at some point. The correct response would be to make some polite inquiries and offer some friendly advice. No need to go on a "git gud" rant."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »Why do people have these notions of "my time is more important than yours" in a group setting? Unless you have something irl, play to the group.
I'm amazed at some of the responses. "you slow, I kick you." it's like... Dude, go solo it yourself.
ya i know, since WoW made mmo mainstream the "i got a real life" subset of players took over mmo communities. I recall in ff11 from 2004-2008 had the best community. Asking fir help, forming networks, and people going out of there way to help was the norm, as we all are/were in the same boat. Helping others also helps ourselfs as more people on the same page who are taught positive attitude and play means less likely you run into a "fake" aka bad player.
For some reason people see playing as a competition, they have to be first, when working as a team is not about being first, but helping each other out.
The more people who stop and help with quest, the better off people are. Plus they can add people as friends and help each other out in getting better, but also getting farming done faster.
The more people treat new players like shi, the less likely new players are going to stay, and less likely they will be good as they spent most of their game being put down for being new.
I have a theory about that.
In the old days (on games like Final Fantasy 11) you needed other players to succeed. So if you went around treating everyone like shi_ and made a lot of enemies you usually didn't get very far. So that encouraged others to be nicer.
These newer MMOs are a lot more convenient - but they also lack a sense of community as a result.
not a theory, it proven fact. Look up a youtuber sobardwarf he did a documentary explaining how difficulty made a community.
Thing is though, you do need players in group dungeons, treating people like npc, or as if you never see them again is poor play. In df on ff14 i ran into the same people who are on different servers pretty often.
tbh no matter the mmo you do need others to succeed, just it later in the leveling. WoW started the trend of solo quest to level. where as older mmo required groups to form and kill for exp. tbh i prefer the kill to lvl vs questing to lvl it makes no sense that being a delivery person makes you stronger. Going out to train by fighting harder and harder monsters makes you stronger.
heck even kratos in the new god of war pokes at that concept, as almost any side quest you get he has one liners about not doing it, but enjoys killing and exploring for resources.
You don't really need other players to complete dungeons on this game though. At least not on any kind of consistent basis. You can just toss one of the players from the group and then replace them like an appliance that's acting up. So there isn't much of an incentive to be nice to one another or to try and help a player get better.
Thing is, you shouldn't need incentive to be a decent person. What needs to happen is a general attitude shift back to when the focus was more on just having fun and less on comparing e-peens."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."5 -
Ydrisselle✭✭✭✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »DuskMarine wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@DuskMarine , kicking people because they're doing dungeon quest? That sounds like an awesome way to get reported and suspended. I'm totally for you doing it, we need to get that natural selection thing do its stuff. ^^
its not against the tos your hilarious. you can boot someone for litterally breathing if you feel like it. and ive kicked so many people for dilly dallying before cause im in a hurry to get done and so are most of the teams i roll with. you want to do story join a rp guild or a guild that achievement hunts. otherwise your just screwing veterans who already have it done over by being slow which is more than justified to boot you.
actually it can be considered griefing which is against the tos.
actually no it cant be you need to go look up the definition of greifing. deciding a player doesnt meet your standards thus you boot them is not a form of griefing.
depends what you can kick them for, and you leave evidence like "omg i'm not here to quest, leave noob" and vote kick can be seen as griefing. If you vote kick a person who is trying to do a dungeon quest, vote kicking prevents them from getting it completed. That is griefing, and disruption of play.
I've talked to gm in multiple mmo, and each gm stated as such. You can vote kick people who are trolling, or performing poorly. but vote kicking them just for wishing to do a quest can be seen as harassment.
wrong again. to vote kick someone you can kick them just because you dont like them you dont have to give them the reason your gonna boot them. people boot people on a regular basis cause your either gonna follow the kill train or we dont need you. if you think we should give you a chance and your just wasting our time your sadly mistaken. most veterans want to get it done out the way so they can move on. cause its gonna come down to you want to do the quest join a guild dont clog up the dungeon finder.
@DuskMarine I'm glad I will never meet you in a dungeon...5
