What defines a "TANK" in the Group Finder? (+personal story)

bewing1234

kathandira wrote: »

Shraar wrote: »

Hello, intermediate player here and I'd like your opinion on something.

My understanding of tank is someone who should be the most durable party member, the one who leads the charge, engages and hold aggros so his squishier teammates can focus on healing/damaging. He controls the pace of each fight.

But in ESO, I see tanks who run past everything. Who aren't shieldmaidens and who let aggression fly everywhere. Is this allowed? This seems to be against the rules of the game, exploited by DPS who want a queue that is 20 seconds instead of 20 minutes. To me, that doesn't seem fair or right or expected but I don't know this community yet and I would like to be humble and understand exactly what's going on here. The way I see it now, this kind of behaviour shouldn't be enabled/encouraged, otherwise what is the point of "roles"?

My personal story:

Just recently, I saw a Bow+DW "Tank" who was bullying a member of our party in Elden Hollow I for doing little DPS. I think he had a mod that tracked group members I have seen similar things in WoW? I could tell she wasn't very good because she only heavy attacked and used abilities but she was probably very new because she didn't respond at all, maybe she didn't know how to type?

I decided to stand up and point out that he shouldn't blame DPS for not doing their job when he wasn't tanking anything and was blazing through the instance.
You see, I have the transcript of the conversation here, but names have been replaced so I don't break the Tenets:

Meanie: REALLY HORRIBLE DPS
Meanie: "Other DPS Name" is dealing 3.7k DPS...
Meanie: how is that even possible
Meanie: heavy 2h attack is garbage dude
Me: says the dw/bow tank?
Meanie: I can tank with shield but dps is terrible
Me: You obviously want to rush through this, stop typing.
Meanie: this is my 5 min pledge
Me: This is everyone's dungeon run
Meanie: solo dungeon
Meanie: [FTC] Chokethorn (+1) - 1:03 - 810,302 Damage (32,863 DPS)
Meanie: bow light attack and 2H heavy attack u are a garbage

(it was at this point that he insulted me personally for bow light attacks on a bunch of minions that I decided to vote kick him. I didn't feel like explaining I wanted to get killing blows on non-boss enemies with bow to level the skill line as I was taught to do because I'm below level 50 in skill-line and level. Hail of Arrows and Caltrops were already down! ...The vote kick was successful.)

Me: good people
Meanie (now in /say due to being kicked): u guys wanted a caary
Meanie (now in /say due to being kicked): trashes
Healer: blow me
Me: Lol

Then in the middle of the final bossfight he whispered me: "Garbages play with garbages I guess go play Mine craft trash builds"
Our healer said something along the lines of "hey on our second last boss" so I assume he whispered the other group members too and our healer accidentally responded in group chat??
I simply muted him. I didn't report him (even though I'll admit my spite made me want to...) because he only whispered me once and that's not harassment. I have never encountered toxicity like that in game before.

I am watching a Netflix series right now that features characters who stand up for people in need. I saw what I perceived to be a new player struggling to keep up, and this harsh criticism in Elden Hollow 1, casual and easy, was no place for such high standards and insulting judgments so I stood up against the bully as eloquently as I could. I chose not to be a bystander. Then we, the three of us, stood up to a bully and kicked him out. Hopefully that teaches him that the tortoise beats the hare. I just had to write it all out to get it off my level 40 Hunding's Rage heavy chest armor if you don't think it's relevant I understand that's why I hid it away. Hopefully that teaches him not to rush and be mean.

"This seems to be against the rules of the game, exploited by DPS who want a queue that is 20 seconds instead of 20 minutes."

As a healer, it is simply for me.

Can you hold aggro? Can you perform tanking mechanics? Can you avoid getting 1 shotted?

Good enough for me.

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Intermediate level main tank: Grab the boss, turn the boss away from group, hold the boss in a fairly fixed location so the dps' AoE's are effective, don't die.

An intermediate tank should have all this down and be working on knowing more detail on dungeon mechanics and refining skill at pulling and holding priority foes (beyond the boss) into the tank so the bigger threats are held in a tight killing zone for the dps.

Since area/multiple target taunts do not exist and abilities that lock foes in position are very short duration, it is not reasonable to expect a tank to pull in and hold all trash - as much as the tank would like to.

Sorry that you encountered what appears to be a toxic player who was not focused on the tank role.

bewing1234

I play a tank version of each class. All classes have the same taunts as they are weapon or faction based skills. Some classes have better roots. All classes have access to some root or slow as weapon or faction skills. That being said a root is not necessary. Pierce armor is a very low cost taunt. I can run in and taunt every mob and string that pull into another and taunt all of them as well without having a Stam issue. I do not just stand there holding block.

A tanks job is to hold aggro. Not just on the boss. Not just on the more powerful mobs. To the extent you can you should hold aggro on everything.

Your next role is to buff the rest of the group or provide damage mitigation to the rest of the group.

Your final job is to contribute damage.

When I play a FPS or healer I prefer a tank that does the first 2 much more than a tank that goes the 3rd job.

All that being said, slot of it depends on the group make up. You need to do any given function more or less dependent on what your teammates can do. Same goes for healers. Healers should mainly dps if their whole group can self heal/ sustain. Healers shouldn’t dps at all if they have 2 glass cannons for dps or a weak tank.

TLDR get 3 friends, coordinate your roles, don’t pug anymore.

Otherwise it is going to be a crap shoot every time until the devs make a major change that they aren’t going to make.

ol_BANK_lo

Shraar wrote: »

Hello, intermediate player here and I'd like your opinion on something.

My understanding of tank is someone who should be the most durable party member, the one who leads the charge, engages and hold aggros so his squishier teammates can focus on healing/damaging. He controls the pace of each fight.

But in ESO, I see tanks who run past everything. Who aren't shieldmaidens and who let aggression fly everywhere. Is this allowed? This seems to be against the rules of the game, exploited by DPS who want a queue that is 20 seconds instead of 20 minutes. To me, that doesn't seem fair or right or expected but I don't know this community yet and I would like to be humble and understand exactly what's going on here. The way I see it now, this kind of behaviour shouldn't be enabled/encouraged, otherwise what is the point of "roles"?

My personal story:

Just recently, I saw a Bow+DW "Tank" who was bullying a member of our party in Elden Hollow I for doing little DPS. I think he had a mod that tracked group members I have seen similar things in WoW? I could tell she wasn't very good because she only heavy attacked and used abilities but she was probably very new because she didn't respond at all, maybe she didn't know how to type?

I decided to stand up and point out that he shouldn't blame DPS for not doing their job when he wasn't tanking anything and was blazing through the instance.
You see, I have the transcript of the conversation here, but names have been replaced so I don't break the Tenets:

Meanie: REALLY HORRIBLE DPS
Meanie: "Other DPS Name" is dealing 3.7k DPS...
Meanie: how is that even possible
Meanie: heavy 2h attack is garbage dude
Me: says the dw/bow tank?
Meanie: I can tank with shield but dps is terrible
Me: You obviously want to rush through this, stop typing.
Meanie: this is my 5 min pledge
Me: This is everyone's dungeon run
Meanie: solo dungeon
Meanie: [FTC] Chokethorn (+1) - 1:03 - 810,302 Damage (32,863 DPS)
Meanie: bow light attack and 2H heavy attack u are a garbage

(it was at this point that he insulted me personally for bow light attacks on a bunch of minions that I decided to vote kick him. I didn't feel like explaining I wanted to get killing blows on non-boss enemies with bow to level the skill line as I was taught to do because I'm below level 50 in skill-line and level. Hail of Arrows and Caltrops were already down! ...The vote kick was successful.)

Me: good people
Meanie (now in /say due to being kicked): u guys wanted a caary
Meanie (now in /say due to being kicked): trashes
Healer: blow me
Me: Lol

Then in the middle of the final bossfight he whispered me: "Garbages play with garbages I guess go play Mine craft trash builds"
Our healer said something along the lines of "hey on our second last boss" so I assume he whispered the other group members too and our healer accidentally responded in group chat??
I simply muted him. I didn't report him (even though I'll admit my spite made me want to...) because he only whispered me once and that's not harassment. I have never encountered toxicity like that in game before.

I am watching a Netflix series right now that features characters who stand up for people in need. I saw what I perceived to be a new player struggling to keep up, and this harsh criticism in Elden Hollow 1, casual and easy, was no place for such high standards and insulting judgments so I stood up against the bully as eloquently as I could. I chose not to be a bystander. Then we, the three of us, stood up to a bully and kicked him out. Hopefully that teaches him that the tortoise beats the hare. I just had to write it all out to get it off my level 40 Hunding's Rage heavy chest armor if you don't think it's relevant I understand that's why I hid it away. Hopefully that teaches him not to rush and be mean.

"This seems to be against the rules of the game, exploited by DPS who want a queue that is 20 seconds instead of 20 minutes."

He needs to be given a child's timeout by ZOS. Yes, bad dps is frustrating at any skill level. But if you queue solo with Dungeon Finder, you get what you get. If you don't want to risk bad players, then put together your own group. Anyone who is as good as he thinks he is, will have people. Berating other people is just internal anger on his part. Seriously, it's a video game.

russelmmendoza

For normal dungeon faketank is ok.
For veteran dungeon never.
Even for normal dungeon dlc 4 dps is ok for me.

vienna

I agree, tanks in this game, kinda hilarious. You can come across (very rarely) who pull some mobs on them, but that's really rarely, in 90% is dmg all across the group, argo fly everywhere,..as a healer, just get great aoe healing skills, that's alfa & omega. I don't see any difference with a tank or no tank in a group. I'm not sure if this is bad game design with bad tounting abilities or is simply bad teamplay. Group play in this game is often more about rushing, no communication,...often you come across people who will just rush alone in front, without any notions where is the rest of the group and attack group of mobs and usually die as a fly and repeat the process. Such behavior you can see all across the board from lvl 10 to 750 champion. Wth lvl's people do not become necessary better teamplayers.