Werewolf Theorycrafting (PvP)

Qbiken · September 2018

Thraben wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

I feel werewolf got slightly weaker in solo-play this patch, but significantly stronger in group play (werewolf is extremely funny in small-scale). So get yourself a pocket healer or someone running guard on you, and you´re good to go

Guard is heavily overperforming and will most likely get some nerfs in upcoming patch(es), so might as well make good use of it while you can

Everyone can be good with a pocket healer or guard on oneself. The truth is that you can´t justify the Werewolf form when you could have someone with 2-3 Dawnbreakers, TrollKing vigor, and even a retreating manoevre instead any longer.

Outside of forced melee encounters (like Tower Farms, Battlegrounds) you just can´t keep up the Werewolf form as long as in the past, which reduces the WW´s viability.

We are basically back to the point when WW is the inofficial class ulti of some StamDKs. It didn´t help that after 5 years, StamSorcs can no longer equip 3 different Ultis (Negate, Overload, WW).

But what I really wanted to know:

How can you extend your Werewolf timer overland in typical ranged combat situations? The obvious answer is Swarm Mother, but the loss of TrollKing/ Bloodspawn/Earthgore hits a WW particularly hard.

I´ve found it easier or just as easy to stay in WW-form as last patch. Just have to change playsytle and gear and I was good to go.

Dashmatt · September 2018

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Heads up Savage Werewolf passive does not work correctly (resistance). It shows on character sheet but doesnt provide extra mitigation.

Did you submit a bug report? This is not very great.

Qbiken wrote: »

I´ve found it easier or just as easy to stay in WW-form as last patch. Just have to change playsytle and gear and I was good to go. And there´re a few tricks you can use to run from between keeps without losing werewolf form

Less winking, more sharing!

I’ve found my timer runs out more often than before, especially in BGs. I have a tankier build so I’m used to taking damage more constantly than dealing it.

Also, is it just me, or did we used to be able to go above a full timer bar using devour, pounce etc? Now it seems to max out when the bar fills, even causing devour to end early.

IlCanis_LupuslI · September 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom When will this be fixed???? i knew something was off with my ww i was taking way to much damage, i was wondering why i was feeling so squishy all the time, i blamed it on the extra cp and higher burst but this eplains everything :-O, guess its time to stick in pve with the ww(didnt think id ever say that but -10k resistances no wonder 2-3 dawnys were kicking my ass i was essentially naked) :-( oh yes @Qbiken is Befoul bugged or just not showing on the character sheet?? Can someone confirm that??

IlCanis_LupuslI · September 2018

Bug confirmed(just tested it), im taking the same damage from non fg abilities in human form with 11k resistances(PVE build) then in ww form with a tooltip of 21k resistances, THIS IS VERY SERIOUS @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom when can we expect a fix?? Cause i wont pvp (unless joining a big fat zerg) with this bug active, back to pve again bah :-(

Chrlynsch · September 2018

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Bug confirmed(just tested it), im taking the same damage from non fg abilities in human form with 11k resistances(pve build) then in ww form with a tooltip of 21k resistances, THIS IS VERY SERIOUS @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom when can we expect a fix?? Cause i cant pvp (unless joining a big fat zerg) with this bug active, back to pve again bah :-(

Wait weren't you juuuust saying that you were super tanky and nothing short of multiple coordinated Dawnbreakers were going to take you down. Looks like you had a case of emperor's new robe.

IlCanis_LupuslI · September 2018

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Bug confirmed(just tested it), im taking the same damage from non fg abilities in human form with 11k resistances(pve build) then in ww form with a tooltip of 21k resistances, THIS IS VERY SERIOUS @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom when can we expect a fix?? Cause i cant pvp (unless joining a big fat zerg) with this bug active, back to pve again bah :-(

Wait weren't you juuuust saying that you were super tanky and nothing short of multiple coordinated Dawnbreakers were going to take you down. Looks like you had a case of emperor's new robe.

thats in my pve build as i just mentioned @Chrlynsch 11k effective resistances PVE

Do I detect some hint of hostility or was this a simple misunderstanding??? I really hope this was a misunderstanding i thought u were a cool dude till now.

And as you know weather multiple people kill a person depends on the skill level of the people.
Sometimes one just gets lucky and runns into a group of really not so good people.
That doesnt make me a super tank it just makes them really bad.
What ive noticed its a lot easier(2-3x) staying alive if the ultimates and expecially dbos(other ults dont put up even close as much pressure on me as that one does) dont come in all at once whats the only thing ive noticed i cant counter with any measures.
I never said i was super tanky i just said thats what usually kills me and thats what usually doesnt kill me(unless i screw something up, sh*t happens :-D ) in ww form.
Please dont put words in my mouth, thank you.

IlCanis_LupuslI · September 2018

Back to my question: Is Befoul bugged or just not showing on the char sheet(Claws of Anguish for example)
Has any1 of you guys tested this?

LegendaryMage · September 2018

It's just UI bug, it still works fine.

Chrlynsch · September 2018

@Mangeli200194 here are your own words.

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

I think you guys are getting a wrong picture here.
Its litereally only 3-4 stacked dbos that kill me(in 90% of the cases) , yyesterday i had 5 dks(& 1 pocket healer) leaping my furry ass unsucessfully may i ad. It took them a full 15 min to kill (and at least 5 ulti dumps) me only to get wiped in round 2 out as soon as i had a friend set up siege on my position.
Its only dbos stacked that gives me problems while outnumbered with other ults im completely fine.
im in heavy (5x impreg/2x welfitted), 34k resistances, 33k health (argonian).
Its a bit weird
And before someone puts it in, no i dont have any issues killing stuff when i want to...

This is what you say later after knowing you have less resistances than you should.

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Bug confirmed(just tested it), im taking the same damage from non fg abilities in human form with 11k resistances(PVE build) then in ww form with a tooltip of 21k resistances, THIS IS VERY SERIOUS @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom when can we expect a fix?? Cause i wont pvp (unless joining a big fat zerg) with this bug active, back to pve again bah :-(

You state you won't go back into pvp (unless you zerg) until it is fixed.

I feel like my statement is spot on.

IlCanis_LupuslI · September 2018

Chrlynsch wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 here are your own words.

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

I think you guys are getting a wrong picture here.
Its litereally only 3-4 stacked dbos that kill me(in 90% of the cases) , yyesterday i had 5 dks(& 1 pocket healer) leaping my furry ass unsucessfully may i ad. It took them a full 15 min to kill (and at least 5 ulti dumps) me only to get wiped in round 2 out as soon as i had a friend set up siege on my position.
Its only dbos stacked that gives me problems while outnumbered with other ults im completely fine.
im in heavy (5x impreg/2x welfitted), 34k resistances, 33k health (argonian).
Its a bit weird
And before someone puts it in, no i dont have any issues killing stuff when i want to...

This is what you say later after knowing you have less resistances than you should.

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Bug confirmed(just tested it), im taking the same damage from non fg abilities in human form with 11k resistances(PVE build) then in ww form with a tooltip of 21k resistances, THIS IS VERY SERIOUS @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom when can we expect a fix?? Cause i wont pvp (unless joining a big fat zerg) with this bug active, back to pve again bah :-(

You state you won't go back into pvp (unless you zerg) until it is fixed.

I feel like my statement is spot on.

And i feel you dont get my message and are interpreting it completely wrong.
Yep definetly a missunderstanding+i never said i was some kind of supertank^^ The previous statements where what i experienced before the patch (with pelinals) the sitution was fighting against unexperienced players where i probably didnt take as much damage plus werent using dbos which ignore basically 13.2k resistances meaning that 35k res getpulled down to 21.9k with the res bug means i have 12 k effective resistances vs dbos instead of the usual 22k in comparison to the 25k effective resistances i have to mitigate other ults. with the bug.
Jep thats what i intend 2 do only was 1ce in pvp this patch and noticed something was different just had issues putting my finger on it. before it was hard enough with the snares, now with less resistances its suicidal so yeah im probably gonna do what most of the people are doing nowadays on xbox eu.
P. S. I never watched that movie so i dont know what you mean with your statement

Chrlynsch · September 2018

The tailor (ZOS), makes the Emperor (you) some new robes (werewolf changes), the emperor loves the new robes, and goes out (to Cyrodiil) and shows everyone how awesome they are. Until someone says you're naked (no added resistances), so you refuse to go outside until you get some new robes.

Chrlynsch · September 2018

Short story long, it is a joke.

IlCanis_LupuslI · September 2018

Oh lol that child-story?

Im loving the changes sofar, exept the missing resistances kinda screwing me over im loving the synergies, the easier feeding, the higher ww uptime im just loving all of it. The better heals(not tied to pelinals) mean i only notice the missing resistances vs dbos(originally i thought they were all wearing that new monster set or smthng) what only speaks for the ww changes ZoS made.
And yeah over here its kinda fotm to stack dbos on people atm so yeah i definetly will avoid pvp untill thats fixed.
My apologies, the german child storys involve coocking frying people alive and putting glowing hot shooes on them untill they die i didnt know that one :-D, all good, missunderstanding.

Mr_Wolfe · September 2018

Some more fun tidbits about the changes to devour: You can't eat the little 1hp critters anymore, you can't have multiple werewolves feed on the same corpse simultaneously anymore, and one person feeding on a corpse uses it up for everyone.

So if you're running with a pack you're going to end up fighting over corpses to maintain your timer. This is bad when you've got several wolves low on timer after a boss fight and only one corpse to split between them, but it's even worse in pvp where corpses rarely stick around long enough to feed on anyway and you can potentially have 20-30 werewolves fighting over the same scraps.

Ertthewolf · September 2018

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Some more fun tidbits about the changes to devour: You can't eat the little 1hp critters anymore, you can't have multiple werewolves feed on the same corpse simultaneously anymore, and one person feeding on a corpse uses it up for everyone.

So if you're running with a pack you're going to end up fighting over corpses to maintain your timer. This is bad when you've got several wolves low on timer after a boss fight and only one corpse to split between them, but it's even worse in pvp where corpses rarely stick around long enough to feed on anyway and you can potentially have 20-30 werewolves fighting over the same scraps.

Yep, they changed devour to where you have a total of 4 ticks of feeding possible each. What we do is take small bites. Each wolf just feeds for a tick or two depending on timer need. There is however no feeding cooldown any longer.

We have done pvp imp city, open world, dungeons, trials and I have done vMA this patch. We literally almost never have to devour anymore. The timer is soooo easy to keep up. Doing March of Sacrifices on vet with 4 werewolves is amazingly fun

sneakymitchell · September 2018

Ertthewolf wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Some more fun tidbits about the changes to devour: You can't eat the little 1hp critters anymore, you can't have multiple werewolves feed on the same corpse simultaneously anymore, and one person feeding on a corpse uses it up for everyone.

So if you're running with a pack you're going to end up fighting over corpses to maintain your timer. This is bad when you've got several wolves low on timer after a boss fight and only one corpse to split between them, but it's even worse in pvp where corpses rarely stick around long enough to feed on anyway and you can potentially have 20-30 werewolves fighting over the same scraps.

Yep, they changed devour to where you have a total of 4 ticks of feeding possible each. What we do is take small bites. Each wolf just feeds for a tick or two depending on timer need. There is however no feeding cooldown any longer.

We have done pvp imp city, open world, dungeons, trials and I have done vMA this patch. We literally almost never have to devour anymore. The timer is soooo easy to keep up. Doing March of Sacrifices on vet with 4 werewolves is amazingly fun

Must been hard cause the restiance of savage strength not giving it out in gameplay.

Ertthewolf · September 2018

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Ertthewolf wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Some more fun tidbits about the changes to devour: You can't eat the little 1hp critters anymore, you can't have multiple werewolves feed on the same corpse simultaneously anymore, and one person feeding on a corpse uses it up for everyone.

So if you're running with a pack you're going to end up fighting over corpses to maintain your timer. This is bad when you've got several wolves low on timer after a boss fight and only one corpse to split between them, but it's even worse in pvp where corpses rarely stick around long enough to feed on anyway and you can potentially have 20-30 werewolves fighting over the same scraps.

Yep, they changed devour to where you have a total of 4 ticks of feeding possible each. What we do is take small bites. Each wolf just feeds for a tick or two depending on timer need. There is however no feeding cooldown any longer.

We have done pvp imp city, open world, dungeons, trials and I have done vMA this patch. We literally almost never have to devour anymore. The timer is soooo easy to keep up. Doing March of Sacrifices on vet with 4 werewolves is amazingly fun

Must been hard cause the restiance of savage strength not giving it out in gameplay.

@sneakymitchell It's definitely noticeable that werewolves are taking more damage with the bug. Luckily you get the boons that help a lot. The last one gives 4000 more health and 10% damage resistance which helps!

IlCanis_LupuslI · September 2018

Yeah im warning every ww i can find in pvp about the bug, its almost scary how squishy ww are without those resistances(even with chudan)

Ertthewolf · September 2018

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Yeah im warning every ww i can find in pvp about the bug, its almost scary how squishy ww are without those resistances(even with chudan)

Yeah, in BG's without champ points and all heavy I had 16466 resistance as a werewolf since the tool tip of 26466 wasn't accurate....Not having the extra 10k sucks.

Dashmatt · September 2018

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Yeah im warning every ww i can find in pvp about the bug, its almost scary how squishy ww are without those resistances(even with chudan)

I did notice some larger numbers in my death recaps lately, but figured it was bad luck and small sample size...

However overall I have been enjoying the WW changes more than expected. It should be quite fun when this is fixed!

Speaking of, I think the biggest problem I have now is magicka classes using shields. I love having Major Fracture, but it doesn’t help as much here, and losing the damage buff from Hircine’s Rage is a bit of a bummer. Should I try running an oblivion enchant? Is it worth it on a non-Infused weapon? Currently using Infused offhand with weapon damage and Nirnhoned main with absorb stamina.

Sharee · September 2018

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Yeah im warning every ww i can find in pvp about the bug, its almost scary how squishy ww are without those resistances(even with chudan)

Well i got some news for you: chudan is broken as well!

Heh

https://youtu.be/W10nBlVwqCo

In the video i am wearing the chudan set, which means casting channeled focus should have no effect on my damage taken. Lo behold, casting focus reduces incoming uppercut damage by 12% from 1002 to 882 (without any change on the stat sheet resistance value). Means, chudan does not give its 5-piece 2-piece resistance.

Koolio · September 2018

Ertthewolf wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Some more fun tidbits about the changes to devour: You can't eat the little 1hp critters anymore, you can't have multiple werewolves feed on the same corpse simultaneously anymore, and one person feeding on a corpse uses it up for everyone.

So if you're running with a pack you're going to end up fighting over corpses to maintain your timer. This is bad when you've got several wolves low on timer after a boss fight and only one corpse to split between them, but it's even worse in pvp where corpses rarely stick around long enough to feed on anyway and you can potentially have 20-30 werewolves fighting over the same scraps.

Yep, they changed devour to where you have a total of 4 ticks of feeding possible each. What we do is take small bites. Each wolf just feeds for a tick or two depending on timer need. There is however no feeding cooldown any longer.

We have done pvp imp city, open world, dungeons, trials and I have done vMA this patch. We literally almost never have to devour anymore. The timer is soooo easy to keep up. Doing March of Sacrifices on vet with 4 werewolves is amazingly fun

Really as a long time werewolf I’m losing WW form so easy now. In situations in PvP I’m losing it where I would never before.

Mr_Wolfe · September 2018

Yeah, the changes to devour and bloodrage are like a lot of the werewolf changes: They look exciting at first glance, but once you dig into them you start realizing they're not as good as they appear.

It's easier to maintain wolf for quick fights (<1 minute) if you're constantly attacking, but you've got less time to get to the next fight now and less food to go around when running with other wolves.

Overall it just serves to make our skeleton parses look better, while actually making long-term sustain more difficult.

TankHealz2015 · September 2018

Thanks for this info.

Question: Anybody ever try using Glorious Defender (Maelstrom Arena set) with a WW build? It gives 10% chance after a LA/HA attack to dodge the next attack against you.

Thoughts?

Qbiken · September 2018

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Thanks for this info.

Question: Anybody ever try using Glorious Defender (Maelstrom Arena set) with a WW build? It gives 10% chance after a LA/HA attack to dodge the next attack against you.

Thoughts?

The set has been on my mind for ages, but somehow I´ve never bothered to test it on the PTS (and I don´t have all necessary pieces on live to try it), but it´s indeed an interesting set I want to try one day.

The downside is that the range of werewolfs LA/HA´s got reduced this patch, combine that with a clunky animation and the swift trait becoming more and more "meta", landing those LA/HA´s becomes difficult.

IlCanis_LupuslI · September 2018

Dashmatt wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Yeah im warning every ww i can find in pvp about the bug, its almost scary how squishy ww are without those resistances(even with chudan)

I did notice some larger numbers in my death recaps lately, but figured it was bad luck and small sample size...

However overall I have been enjoying the WW changes more than expected. It should be quite fun when this is fixed!

Speaking of, I think the biggest problem I have now is magicka classes using shields. I love having Major Fracture, but it doesn’t help as much here, and losing the damage buff from Hircine’s Rage is a bit of a bummer. Should I try running an oblivion enchant? Is it worth it on a non-Infused weapon? Currently using Infused offhand with weapon damage and Nirnhoned main with absorb stamina.

yeah oblivion enchants really work nicely on offhand imo

IlCanis_LupuslI · September 2018

Sharee wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

Yeah im warning every ww i can find in pvp about the bug, its almost scary how squishy ww are without those resistances(even with chudan)

Well i got some news for you: chudan is broken as well!

Heh

https://youtu.be/W10nBlVwqCo

In the video i am wearing the chudan set, which means casting channeled focus should have no effect on my damage taken. Lo behold, casting focus reduces incoming uppercut damage by 12% from 1002 to 882 (without any change on the stat sheet resistance value). Means, chudan does not give its 5-piece resistance.

@Sharee fml :-( :-( :-( You gotta be kidding me. So they literally broke everything i used to mitigate high amounts of damage???? @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Can this be forwarded to the devs plz??? mighty chudan not giving its mitigation, ww not giving its mitigation, comon thats just not fair !!! How could this happen in the "Werewolf Patch"???

Qbiken · September 2018

So for anyone who´s wondering about when the bugged Savage Strength passive will get a fix, here´s your answer:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We should have a fix for this issue in the next update. Thanks for the information, everyone!

Next update as in Murkmire or next week with maintenance??

Murkmire.

So enjoy 1,5 - 2 months of a bugged werewolf.........

IlCanis_LupuslI · September 2018

1-2 months??? so i cant play ww in the ww patch???? like what the hell?

IlCanis_LupuslI · September 2018

I really hope this is some kind of sick joke at this moment im really furious. How is it even possible to make the ww worse/impossible to play in a "Werewolf Patch" ???