What makes MagBlades the king of DPS?

mr_wazzabi · August 2018

TheNightflame wrote: »

BEST ranged dps
BEST master architect wearers
BEST self healing
BEST off healing

why bring anyone else *shrugs*

I would say great self healing, but not best. Strife is no honor the dead or puncturing sweeps.

mr_wazzabi · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

The important thing to keep in mind, though, is that magblades are good only if played well. I see a lot of people jumping on the magblade bandwagon and then finding that they do less DPS on a magblade than on another class.

I.e., magblades have a high skill ceiling, and it's only a strong DPS class for people who can touch that ceiling.

Specifically, magblade is extremely dependent on your ability to light-attack weave.

For all other classes, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

For nightblades, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

You lose bow procs, and bow procs are your hardest-hitting ability.

You lose sustain from bow procs, because bow procs are free so the greater the ratio of bow procs to other abilities, the more efficiently you use magicka.

You lose sustain from Siphoning Attacks, which rewards weaving.

Furthermore, while most players will LA-weave 5 abilities to get their bow proc and then LA-weave the bow proc, the really good magblades will LA-weave 4 abilities and then LA-weave Merciless, and if timed properly, the LA from the Merciless weave will hit early enough to make that a bow proc. The risk is that if you mistime that, then you just end up recasting Merciless and end up losing DPS than if you had played it safe and LA-weaved 5 abilities. So the good, experienced magblades can get a 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs to other abilities instead of a more typical 1-to-5 ratio, and the more bow procs you get, the more damage and sustain that you get.

If you can't weave well--and most people playing this game can't get 0.8 LA/s--then you will not find magblades to be that strong. But for people who can perfectly weave and get that 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs, magblade will reward that level of skill very, very richly.

This is also why balancing magblade DPS is difficult. Since any direct nerfs will mostly hurt the players for whom magblade is not very strong. To ZOS's credit, they did lower the magblade ceiling a little with the changes to how Merciless stacks are saved.

(Unfortunately, my weaving is less than perfect. But I stick with magblade because that's been my main since 2015, before magblades were cool. )

This is 1000% true. I hope zos reads this and doesn't nerf magblade.

Let the world beaters stay top dog if they have the skill. The most difficult rotation in the game should reward the player for the effort. Nerfing magblades will make easier classes surpass the hardest class to play. Hardly fair.

John_Falstaff · August 2018

@mr_wazzabi , I feel it's a bad style of thinking. It's not good that only one class allows player to scale with skill. Point is, it's not necessary to use difficult rotation with magblade - see above, static rotation from Guilliamtherogue is capable of comfortable 43k DPS suitable for most if not all content; maglbades simply have the option of going for something more difficult and rewarding. I agree that nerfs aren't the way, but I would rather give other classes an option to choose more rewarding playstyle at expense of greater skill requirements.

Apherius · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

If you can't weave well--and most people playing this game can't get 0.8 LA/s--then you will not find magblades to be that strong. But for people who can perfectly weave and get that 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs, magblade will reward that level of skill very, very richly.

The nightblade class reward skilfull rotation if you weave properly, with high dps and sustain. they also bring utility in raid ( funnel health ect .... )

Like @John_Falstaff said, all class should reward skilfull gameplay ... It should not be all around LA like the NB, maybe a class could get increased sustain and damage via an ultimate ( overload come to my mind)

- Power Overload

Change it, so you could still do your rotation and swap bar, and each light attack with a weapon would deal additional damage until you run out or toggle off the ultimate. make the ultimate deplete 10 ultimates every 2 sec.

Charge your fists weapons with the power of the storm, Light attacks become Lightning bolts dealing X additional damage, and your heavy attacks blast enemies in target area near the target for X additional damage. Both attacks restores 300 magicka ( this would help with sustain a bit ), after 12 Light/heavy attack the power of the storm become uncontrollable, you will need to toggle the ultimate off during X sec or it will deal more damage at the expense of your base speed (slow you down up to 80% of your base speed ) You lose 10 ultimates each 2 sec until you run out or the ability is toggled off. you can not gain ultimate while using this ultimate.

I want it to be an ultimate you need to manage, something that reward skilful gameplay but also allow the player to do more damage at the expense of his movement speed ( or another thing, it's just an example)
And keep the Energy Overload morph as it is, for those who want to play with a third bar and/or gank players, this would make both choice interresting.

Runefang · August 2018

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Instead of nerfing NBs I suggest making the other classes more viable for dps. Maybe give all classes one ability with a high ceiling dmg-wise which takes skill to master. It makes playing a dps class more fun if there is room for improvement.

PvE is easy enough though. We don't need other classes buffed, just balanced.

Waffennacht · August 2018

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The important thing to keep in mind, though, is that magblades are good only if played well. I see a lot of people jumping on the magblade bandwagon and then finding that they do less DPS on a magblade than on another class.

I.e., magblades have a high skill ceiling, and it's only a strong DPS class for people who can touch that ceiling.

Specifically, magblade is extremely dependent on your ability to light-attack weave.

For all other classes, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

For nightblades, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

You lose bow procs, and bow procs are your hardest-hitting ability.

You lose sustain from bow procs, because bow procs are free so the greater the ratio of bow procs to other abilities, the more efficiently you use magicka.

You lose sustain from Siphoning Attacks, which rewards weaving.

Furthermore, while most players will LA-weave 5 abilities to get their bow proc and then LA-weave the bow proc, the really good magblades will LA-weave 4 abilities and then LA-weave Merciless, and if timed properly, the LA from the Merciless weave will hit early enough to make that a bow proc. The risk is that if you mistime that, then you just end up recasting Merciless and end up losing DPS than if you had played it safe and LA-weaved 5 abilities. So the good, experienced magblades can get a 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs to other abilities instead of a more typical 1-to-5 ratio, and the more bow procs you get, the more damage and sustain that you get.

If you can't weave well--and most people playing this game can't get 0.8 LA/s--then you will not find magblades to be that strong. But for people who can perfectly weave and get that 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs, magblade will reward that level of skill very, very richly.

This is also why balancing magblade DPS is difficult. Since any direct nerfs will mostly hurt the players for whom magblade is not very strong. To ZOS's credit, they did lower the magblade ceiling a little with the changes to how Merciless stacks are saved.

(Unfortunately, my weaving is less than perfect. But I stick with magblade because that's been my main since 2015, before magblades were cool. )

This is 1000% true. I hope zos reads this and doesn't nerf magblade.

Let the world beaters stay top dog if they have the skill. The most difficult rotation in the game should reward the player for the effort. Nerfing magblades will make easier classes surpass the hardest class to play. Hardly fair.

Well we could ask for other class buffs, but then everyone screams Nerf sorc....

And then warden gets nerfed....

So we can't (anyone) have nice things.

Btw apparently mag NBs being best dps makes ZoS think Hardened Ward needs a Nerf.....

Aedaryl · August 2018

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The important thing to keep in mind, though, is that magblades are good only if played well. I see a lot of people jumping on the magblade bandwagon and then finding that they do less DPS on a magblade than on another class.

I.e., magblades have a high skill ceiling, and it's only a strong DPS class for people who can touch that ceiling.

Specifically, magblade is extremely dependent on your ability to light-attack weave.

For all other classes, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

For nightblades, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

You lose bow procs, and bow procs are your hardest-hitting ability.

You lose sustain from bow procs, because bow procs are free so the greater the ratio of bow procs to other abilities, the more efficiently you use magicka.

You lose sustain from Siphoning Attacks, which rewards weaving.

Furthermore, while most players will LA-weave 5 abilities to get their bow proc and then LA-weave the bow proc, the really good magblades will LA-weave 4 abilities and then LA-weave Merciless, and if timed properly, the LA from the Merciless weave will hit early enough to make that a bow proc. The risk is that if you mistime that, then you just end up recasting Merciless and end up losing DPS than if you had played it safe and LA-weaved 5 abilities. So the good, experienced magblades can get a 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs to other abilities instead of a more typical 1-to-5 ratio, and the more bow procs you get, the more damage and sustain that you get.

If you can't weave well--and most people playing this game can't get 0.8 LA/s--then you will not find magblades to be that strong. But for people who can perfectly weave and get that 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs, magblade will reward that level of skill very, very richly.

This is also why balancing magblade DPS is difficult. Since any direct nerfs will mostly hurt the players for whom magblade is not very strong. To ZOS's credit, they did lower the magblade ceiling a little with the changes to how Merciless stacks are saved.

(Unfortunately, my weaving is less than perfect. But I stick with magblade because that's been my main since 2015, before magblades were cool. )

This is 1000% true. I hope zos reads this and doesn't nerf magblade.

Let the world beaters stay top dog if they have the skill. The most difficult rotation in the game should reward the player for the effort. Nerfing magblades will make easier classes surpass the hardest class to play. Hardly fair.

This game doesn't have hard rotations and nighblade rotation isn't hard. If everyone want 90% of NB in every competitive area, then it deserve a nerf.

You will be rightfully nerfed.

Enjoy your time being stronger than everyone while it last.

TheNightflame · August 2018

kind of referring to my earlier response, by all means, let magnbs be the king of ranged dps, but they have way too much right now (mainly with them being the best self healers and off healers).

IZZEFlameLash · August 2018

Come on, let's not pretend that NB has to do some sort of complicated button presses for combos from the fighting games. Every single class weaves. NB just has added bonus for weaving. That's about it. And that button press even gives Minor Berserk bonus while active for 20 or so seconds. 30k~40k burst per 5 Light Attacks. Every single class has to do the perfect weave and perfect DoT and buff management.

NBs are almost fail safe in that they have easier time bouncing back to minimum while other classes will still lag behind when they mess up. Other classes just don't have personal access to Minor Berserk and huge burst every 5 weaves to bounce back to acceptable minimum level which also makes them fall behind in the same or similar setup and stats. NBs just have a lot of useful self buffs help them pull the highest DPS where as other classes lack in those departments as other classes' buffs are basically scattered buffs of useful and unuseful. Also, NBs don't really have to Heavy Attack as much as other classes do if they ever do one.

My mNB and sNB is probably the only class I can comfortably pull 20~25k (if I am really focused) in PvP gear. Weaving is just crucial and NBs don't have it extra difficult. They just have added reward to 5 weaves on top of ultgen.

EDIT: I also would love other classes be competitive. Bring them up instead of nerfing everyone.

Kadoin · August 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The important thing to keep in mind, though, is that magblades are good only if played well. I see a lot of people jumping on the magblade bandwagon and then finding that they do less DPS on a magblade than on another class.

I.e., magblades have a high skill ceiling, and it's only a strong DPS class for people who can touch that ceiling.

Specifically, magblade is extremely dependent on your ability to light-attack weave.

For all other classes, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

For nightblades, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

You lose bow procs, and bow procs are your hardest-hitting ability.

You lose sustain from bow procs, because bow procs are free so the greater the ratio of bow procs to other abilities, the more efficiently you use magicka.

You lose sustain from Siphoning Attacks, which rewards weaving.

Furthermore, while most players will LA-weave 5 abilities to get their bow proc and then LA-weave the bow proc, the really good magblades will LA-weave 4 abilities and then LA-weave Merciless, and if timed properly, the LA from the Merciless weave will hit early enough to make that a bow proc. The risk is that if you mistime that, then you just end up recasting Merciless and end up losing DPS than if you had played it safe and LA-weaved 5 abilities. So the good, experienced magblades can get a 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs to other abilities instead of a more typical 1-to-5 ratio, and the more bow procs you get, the more damage and sustain that you get.

If you can't weave well--and most people playing this game can't get 0.8 LA/s--then you will not find magblades to be that strong. But for people who can perfectly weave and get that 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs, magblade will reward that level of skill very, very richly.

This is also why balancing magblade DPS is difficult. Since any direct nerfs will mostly hurt the players for whom magblade is not very strong. To ZOS's credit, they did lower the magblade ceiling a little with the changes to how Merciless stacks are saved.

(Unfortunately, my weaving is less than perfect. But I stick with magblade because that's been my main since 2015, before magblades were cool. )

This is 1000% true. I hope zos reads this and doesn't nerf magblade.

Let the world beaters stay top dog if they have the skill. The most difficult rotation in the game should reward the player for the effort. Nerfing magblades will make easier classes surpass the hardest class to play. Hardly fair.

Well we could ask for other class buffs, but then everyone screams Nerf sorc....

And then warden gets nerfed....

So we can't (anyone) have nice things.

Btw apparently mag NBs being best dps makes ZoS think Hardened Ward needs a Nerf.....

Don't forget best healer with a burst heal that is better than any other in the game.

Xerge · August 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Instead of nerfing NBs I suggest making the other classes more viable for dps. Maybe give all classes one ability with a high ceiling dmg-wise which takes skill to master. It makes playing a dps class more fun if there is room for improvement.

This. I'm in favor of pretty much any change with makes the game more challenging without lowering power level.

In the whole story of all MMOs, you'll have HUGE difficulty finding examples of "buffing everyone else up to XYZ level". It's usually "nerf XYZ down to everyone else's level".

i've been playing MMOs for half my life so while with this statement holds true(its a balancing act for player retention - business move), can't have players destroying content at a rate faster than developers can create?; I need to remind you that blizzard has an upstanding record of class balance. Every single class and their sub specs are genuinely fun to play; you can try and argue but i'm experienced enough in the genre to know there is no sound/reasonable argument against what I just said. This holds true because the core combat of WoW is 'fun' by nature. This is the root of ESO's problem; the core combat is fun but its no where near the level it should be at. Its close and it is almost there however any new stam player will easily see the glaring issue. Honestly.. unless youre playing a stam-nightblade some combat feels turn based until I built my warden around sustain. I can barely manage 25k single starget on my warden but at least the gameplay itself is fun, eh?

Anyway, don't mind me. Just another 350+ new player who feels like they wasted their time investment on this game.

SilverWF · August 2018

Well, as magNB I'm usually struggling in clearing tons of trash, while I has no any problems with it at magSorc

Justsaying...

Juhasow · August 2018

SilverWF wrote: »

Well, as magNB I'm usually struggling in clearing tons of trash, while I has no any problems with it at magSorc

Justsaying...

Try Sap Essence ? Just saying...

Morgul667 · August 2018

SilverWF wrote: »

Well, as magNB I'm usually struggling in clearing tons of trash, while I has no any problems with it at magSorc

Justsaying...

It's pretty obvious at this stage, that magblades are in a good spot.

ccfeeling · August 2018

Non NB could hit 45k ~ 49k easily , there are so many video on youtube .
If you cant make it , better make more practices but complain .
In the high level trial , what you need are survive and damage , all class roles are different .
We shouldnt just focus on DPS ...

TheNightflame · August 2018

Kadoin wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The important thing to keep in mind, though, is that magblades are good only if played well. I see a lot of people jumping on the magblade bandwagon and then finding that they do less DPS on a magblade than on another class.

I.e., magblades have a high skill ceiling, and it's only a strong DPS class for people who can touch that ceiling.

Specifically, magblade is extremely dependent on your ability to light-attack weave.

For all other classes, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

For nightblades, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

You lose bow procs, and bow procs are your hardest-hitting ability.

You lose sustain from bow procs, because bow procs are free so the greater the ratio of bow procs to other abilities, the more efficiently you use magicka.

You lose sustain from Siphoning Attacks, which rewards weaving.

Furthermore, while most players will LA-weave 5 abilities to get their bow proc and then LA-weave the bow proc, the really good magblades will LA-weave 4 abilities and then LA-weave Merciless, and if timed properly, the LA from the Merciless weave will hit early enough to make that a bow proc. The risk is that if you mistime that, then you just end up recasting Merciless and end up losing DPS than if you had played it safe and LA-weaved 5 abilities. So the good, experienced magblades can get a 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs to other abilities instead of a more typical 1-to-5 ratio, and the more bow procs you get, the more damage and sustain that you get.

If you can't weave well--and most people playing this game can't get 0.8 LA/s--then you will not find magblades to be that strong. But for people who can perfectly weave and get that 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs, magblade will reward that level of skill very, very richly.

This is also why balancing magblade DPS is difficult. Since any direct nerfs will mostly hurt the players for whom magblade is not very strong. To ZOS's credit, they did lower the magblade ceiling a little with the changes to how Merciless stacks are saved.

(Unfortunately, my weaving is less than perfect. But I stick with magblade because that's been my main since 2015, before magblades were cool. )

This is 1000% true. I hope zos reads this and doesn't nerf magblade.

Let the world beaters stay top dog if they have the skill. The most difficult rotation in the game should reward the player for the effort. Nerfing magblades will make easier classes surpass the hardest class to play. Hardly fair.

Well we could ask for other class buffs, but then everyone screams Nerf sorc....

And then warden gets nerfed....

So we can't (anyone) have nice things.

Btw apparently mag NBs being best dps makes ZoS think Hardened Ward needs a Nerf.....

Don't forget best healer with a burst heal that is better than any other in the game.

every healer class has a niche. the original MoS hardmode was only done with a warden healer

John_Falstaff · August 2018

@ccfeeling , there are only four roles in the game, and classes shouldn't be nailed to specific roles. Not unless you propose to honestly, in upfront manner, rename DKs into "tanks" in character creation screen, and wardens to healers. Which is, as much as I can understand, the opposite of ZOS' declared intention.

Runefang · August 2018

ccfeeling wrote: »

Non NB could hit 45k ~ 49k easily , there are so many video on youtube .
If you cant make it , better make more practices but complain .
In the high level trial , what you need are survive and damage , all class roles are different .
We shouldnt just focus on DPS ...

And the only class that gets to run almost a full damage build without sacrificing survivability? Magblades.... Refreshing path is close to twisting path damage and funnel health/swallow soul is close to elemental weapon.

On the other hand Magsorcs need to drop a skill to run Surge. Magplars either need to run puncturing sweeps which isn't great for dps (or survivability given the melee range) or they need to run honor the dead which like a Magsorc means dropping a skill for an expensive heal.

DKs and Warden's I can't speak to but I've seen no Magdens and only one MagDK in my trials groups in the last 6 months so... yeah I'm guessing they don't have the skills needed to dps like a Magblade let alone self heal at the same time.

You *should* have to sacrifice DPS to self-heal well, and it should be a significant loss.

ccfeeling · August 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@ccfeeling , there are only four roles in the game, and classes shouldn't be nailed to specific roles. Not unless you propose to honestly, in upfront manner, rename DKs into "tanks" in character creation screen, and wardens to healers. Which is, as much as I can understand, the opposite of ZOS' declared intention.

Hi John , sorry about that , what I mean roles are different dps roles tho .

NB is pure dps , they dont have much support to the team unless they equip something special , such as MA (optional) or refreshing path + funnel health , but I guess they wont slot them . No doubt , NBs are the strongest DPS so far .
Templar shard , DK flame , Sorc ? Maybe LL synergy lol , they could provide something to the team beside dps at the same time .
Their DPS are little behind NB but just few k tho , is this really matter ?
I'm not in end game trial guild , but I don't have such problem in my guild trials , trial mechanics knowledge is much more important .

John_Falstaff · August 2018

@ccfeeling , ah - then I misunderstood what you meant by roles. Well, thing is, @Runefang got it right - NB isn't pure DPS as things stand. They give a lot of off healing (with a regular spammable no less, and mind, Funnel is a very popular spammabe, it's used a lot in the wild - plus, it's flexibility that matters: in content that requires it, Funnel can be easily slotted as replacement of FP or Elemental Weapon), they're the best class for Master Architect uptime because of faster ultimate generation, they give whole group twenty seconds of Minor Savagery with each and every critical strike (Hemorrhage passive - and the only other source of it in the game is an alchemical poison). That's plenty of synergies. Engulfing Flames is a good synergy, but it was shoehorned onto tanks, because DK DDs just aren't having good time pulling their weight in new trials (AS and CR in particular punishes melee builds).

Sure, other classes aren't prohibited from clearing trials per se (though I wouldn't go into vCR as my stamina DK self for the fear that I won't contribute much if at all), but when people run for high leaderboard scores, seems like a group of mNBs (with a pinch of non-pet magsorcs) gives an edge.

Runefang · August 2018

ccfeeling wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@ccfeeling , there are only four roles in the game, and classes shouldn't be nailed to specific roles. Not unless you propose to honestly, in upfront manner, rename DKs into "tanks" in character creation screen, and wardens to healers. Which is, as much as I can understand, the opposite of ZOS' declared intention.

Hi John , sorry about that , what I mean roles are different dps roles tho .

NB is pure dps , they dont have much support to the team unless they equip something special , such as MA (optional) or refreshing path + funnel health , but I guess they wont slot them . No doubt , NBs are the strongest DPS so far .
Templar shard , DK flame , Sorc ? Maybe LL synergy lol , they could provide something to the team beside dps at the same time .
Their DPS are little behind NB but just few k tho , is this really matter ?
I'm not in end game trial guild , but I don't have such problem in my guild trials , trial mechanics knowledge is much more important .

Templar healers give shards.
DK tanks give flames.
A single Magsorc is all you need out of 8 dps to provide a synergy for Alkosh.

I'm in 2 guilds that are doing progression (vHoF, vCR etc) and I feel like I gimp them running anything but a Nightblade.

Vahrokh · August 2018

SilverWF wrote: »

Well, as magNB I'm usually struggling in clearing tons of trash, while I has no any problems with it at magSorc

Justsaying...

The trash they dimmed and basically quasi-removed in all of the newest trials?

The trash, nobody cares about, because it's bosses who wipe the group?

Vahrokh · August 2018

Xerge wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Instead of nerfing NBs I suggest making the other classes more viable for dps. Maybe give all classes one ability with a high ceiling dmg-wise which takes skill to master. It makes playing a dps class more fun if there is room for improvement.

This. I'm in favor of pretty much any change with makes the game more challenging without lowering power level.

In the whole story of all MMOs, you'll have HUGE difficulty finding examples of "buffing everyone else up to XYZ level". It's usually "nerf XYZ down to everyone else's level".

i've been playing MMOs for half my life so while with this statement holds true(its a balancing act for player retention - business move), can't have players destroying content at a rate faster than developers can create?; I need to remind you that blizzard has an upstanding record of class balance. Every single class and their sub specs are genuinely fun to play; you can try and argue but i'm experienced enough in the genre to know there is no sound/reasonable argument against what I just said. This holds true because the core combat of WoW is 'fun' by nature. This is the root of ESO's problem; the core combat is fun but its no where near the level it should be at. Its close and it is almost there however any new stam player will easily see the glaring issue. Honestly.. unless youre playing a stam-nightblade some combat feels turn based until I built my warden around sustain. I can barely manage 25k single starget on my warden but at least the gameplay itself is fun, eh?

Anyway, don't mind me. Just another 350+ new player who feels like they wasted their time investment on this game.

I played WoW until 2007. In the beginning, playing anything but 2h warrior was just stupid. After a while, playing anything but 2h warrior or 2 swords rogue was just stupid. I manned (among others) a druid. Stuck and forced as pure healer for years because feral druids were the quintessence of bad. Mag wardens in ESO shine in comparison.

Vahrokh · August 2018

ccfeeling wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@ccfeeling , there are only four roles in the game, and classes shouldn't be nailed to specific roles. Not unless you propose to honestly, in upfront manner, rename DKs into "tanks" in character creation screen, and wardens to healers. Which is, as much as I can understand, the opposite of ZOS' declared intention.

Their DPS are little behind NB but just few k tho , is this really matter ?
I'm not in end game trial guild , but I don't have such problem in my guild trials , trial mechanics knowledge is much more important .

Multiply "just few k" x 7 and you basically have a 13 men group, with 9 DPS.
When you are doing vMOL (and - even more - hm MOL) you either reach a DPS thresold or you don't. If you don't, then you are in for a world of pain. That thresold is very easily achieved by using NBs. With other DPS classes, it requires much more effort => trial attempts to be achieved. I am not even discussing the new DLC trials, which are even made more trivial by using 7 magblades and in fact it's what is happening.

I've been explicitly asked by multiple guilds if I could please reroll a magblade for progression trials.
Doesn't this say something?

Sparr0w · August 2018

Heimpai wrote: »

Is it easier than stamblade? I only ask as this is basically my first mmo and i struggle to hit 25k dps consistently..idk if sets make a huge difference but i use spriggans with bone pirates/selenes (i know my parse sucks, not used to kb/m)

I wanted to make a magblade but didn’t know if it’d be worth it as i use my character for pvp as well

@Heimpai nope, Stamblade is pretty circular bar relentless proc (and trap if you want it to be).

Sparr0w · August 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

ccfeeling wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@ccfeeling , there are only four roles in the game, and classes shouldn't be nailed to specific roles. Not unless you propose to honestly, in upfront manner, rename DKs into "tanks" in character creation screen, and wardens to healers. Which is, as much as I can understand, the opposite of ZOS' declared intention.

Their DPS are little behind NB but just few k tho , is this really matter ?
I'm not in end game trial guild , but I don't have such problem in my guild trials , trial mechanics knowledge is much more important .

Multiply "just few k" x 7 and you basically have a 13 men group, with 9 DPS.
When you are doing vMOL (and - even more - hm MOL) you either reach a DPS thresold or you don't. If you don't, then you are in for a world of pain. That thresold is very easily achieved by using NBs. With other DPS classes, it requires much more effort => trial attempts to be achieved. I am not even discussing the new DLC trials, which are even made more trivial by using 7 magblades and in fact it's what is happening.

I've been explicitly asked by multiple guilds if I could please reroll a magblade for progression trials.
Doesn't this say something?

Progression yeah maybe since you can slot funnel/refreshing.

Non progression magblades slot ele weapon and twisting to squeeze out the 'just a few k', that means no self heals (well siphoning 1k per light attack), no group heals, no group buffs. They don't even have a synnergy built into their standard kit.

The big reason mNB are ahead on parses and have a high ceiling is all down to being able to provide their selves with minor beserk (in a trial everyone will have this from your healers) and able to sustain a full light attack rotation with perfect weaving & buff tracking.

EDIT: Putting it into perspective, accounting for minor beserk my mNB pulls about 2k more dps than my sorc, but my sorc has a synnergy and can give someone Major Beserk, as well as having a much bigger shield & healing for around half the amount (siphoning 1k per la vs cFrag 10% per proc)

Zorgon_The_Revenged · August 2018

What makes magblades king of DPS?

3 years of being mostly useful as an off-heal and a crit buffer for the sorcs and DK's?

Apherius · August 2018

jypcy wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

.

jypcy wrote: »

OP— for reference, I mocked up a meta magblade to try it out back around either CWC or dragon bones. I also mocked up a heavy attack magden during Summerset. From about 10-15 minutes with the 3mil for each, my highest parses were:
Magblade: 26k
Magden: 38k

Granted, there’s a 10-20 cp difference between the two patches and if my magblade tests were during CWC it wouldn’t have had Zaan. There was also the buff to light attacks in general. Still, I don’t think that even summing all of these disparities would up my magblade dps almost 50%. Instead, I’m not hitting major numbers with magblade because A) I’m just not a very good dps and B ) I don’t want to spend much time practicing dps rotations. As others have stated, the skill ceiling is high for magblades and that’s largely a part of their rotation. If you want to put in the time to practice that, magblades can be very powerful. But by no means would I consider them major deeps straight out of the box, and if you don’t want to worry about lots of practice, chances are another class can be more effective with an easier rotation.

Also, I don’t really keep up to date with what the highest dps parses are every patch, but my impression is that the best of each class are hitting the dummy with:
Magblade: ~48k
Magplar: ~47k
Magden: ~45k
Magsorc: ~45k?
Magdk: I really don’t know but sounds like 40k is pretty attainable from other posts in this thread haha

(Someone please correct those numbers because you’re probably better informed than I am.) But bottom line is I get the impression that any class in the hands of a dedicated, skilled player can deliver big boy numbers. Magblades just get lauded as “the best” because their top players marginally outperform the other class’ top players and more players like playing magblades for feeling so rewarding for their skill, so you see more magblades with big boy numbers like those than you do from other classes.

Magblades can most definitely hit well over 50k, even without Siroria. I imagine the top players on PC are hitting close to 60k on a 3 mil.

Ope, sure enough, shows how closely I’m keeping up with dps nowadays

https://youtu.be/SBpDA64GrcI

(Note that this is with some external buffs, but even so.)

impressive, but my friend deal more damage :P ( with only 1 external buff " elemental drain " )

[Summerset Update] It may be more with Wolf-hunter ( with the enchant change and the 30 more cp )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42CdkGCc73M&t=4s

This guy always have the highest dps in our raid.

Heymexa · August 2018

Maulkin · August 2018

Runefang wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Range,
Off heals,
Will and innate berserk,
Major slayer options,

In short they have not just good dps but utility, and that is sorely lacking with a lot of classes.

Good dps, utility, and very great sustain ( nothing better than a skill that restore magicka and health while doing dps + restore magicka when the skill ends).

Honestly if siphoning strikes and morphs were mages guild abilities there'd be a pretty solid bunch of balance.

Siphoning strikes isn't that big an issue to me, the sustain it supplies is only slightly better than a lot of other similar skills in other classes.

A Magblade can weave light attacks and skills non-stop and have a magicka drain of ~1500 on a 6m dummy parse. That's sustainable. If I do that on my Magplar or Magsorc I have a drain of over 1700. That's unsustainable without sacrificing too much damage, at least on a 6m dummy.

The reason for the difference is simply the free bow proc the Nightblade gets, every 5 seconds or so they get a free skill to use. And instead of that bow proc all other classes are using another spammable which has a cost.

You're right but it's the combination of 3 things really.
1) Free bow proc
2) Cheap ult which becomes another free cast
3) Siphoning strikes which is the best sustain skill for PvE DPS, even if by a little.

The result is the best sustain of any mag class.