What makes MagBlades the king of DPS?

Runefang · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

The important thing to keep in mind, though, is that magblades are good only if played well. I see a lot of people jumping on the magblade bandwagon and then finding that they do less DPS on a magblade than on another class.

I.e., magblades have a high skill ceiling, and it's only a strong DPS class for people who can touch that ceiling.

Specifically, magblade is extremely dependent on your ability to light-attack weave.

For all other classes, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

For nightblades, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

You lose bow procs, and bow procs are your hardest-hitting ability.

You lose sustain from bow procs, because bow procs are free so the greater the ratio of bow procs to other abilities, the more efficiently you use magicka.

You lose sustain from Siphoning Attacks, which rewards weaving.

Furthermore, while most players will LA-weave 5 abilities to get their bow proc and then LA-weave the bow proc, the really good magblades will LA-weave 4 abilities and then LA-weave Merciless, and if timed properly, the LA from the Merciless weave will hit early enough to make that a bow proc. The risk is that if you mistime that, then you just end up recasting Merciless and end up losing DPS than if you had played it safe and LA-weaved 5 abilities. So the good, experienced magblades can get a 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs to other abilities instead of a more typical 1-to-5 ratio, and the more bow procs you get, the more damage and sustain that you get.

If you can't weave well--and most people playing this game can't get 0.8 LA/s--then you will not find magblades to be that strong. But for people who can perfectly weave and get that 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs, magblade will reward that level of skill very, very richly.

This is also why balancing magblade DPS is difficult. Since any direct nerfs will mostly hurt the players for whom magblade is not very strong. To ZOS's credit, they did lower the magblade ceiling a little with the changes to how Merciless stacks are saved.

(Unfortunately, my weaving is less than perfect. But I stick with magblade because that's been my main since 2015, before magblades were cool. )

Dynamic rotations is really the only thing that makes them harder. Every top-level dps player in the game can LA weave with a high degree of precision, class is irrelevant there. Most classes also benefit from a dynamic rotation so it should be the norm anyway.

And you say that Magblades lose sustain when this isn't done well, great my Magplar can't sustain when I LA weave perfectly. So where's a Magplar's reward for doing a good job.

I get that nerfing appropriately is hard because you risk losing what makes Nightblades fun and unique, but they are simply too good at PvE at the moment. Their dps needs to be lowered slightly (personally I can live with them doing 2-3% more dps due to their difficulty, but 5%+ is just too much) and their self-healing definitely needs to be reduced (#makehealersgreatagain).

Danksta · August 2018

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Danksta , of course magblade is a king of mag dps, by definition. In their endless wisdom of combat balancing, ZOS have designated stamblade to be kings of stam dps... Quoting a bosmer tour guide from Elden Root, "...isn't that exciting". ^^

Well "King of DPS" implies king of all dps, which is not the case.

MooseKnuckles88 · August 2018

Runefang wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

The important thing to keep in mind, though, is that magblades are good only if played well. I see a lot of people jumping on the magblade bandwagon and then finding that they do less DPS on a magblade than on another class.

I.e., magblades have a high skill ceiling, and it's only a strong DPS class for people who can touch that ceiling.

Specifically, magblade is extremely dependent on your ability to light-attack weave.

For all other classes, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

For nightblades, if you miss weaves,
You lose damage from the light attacks.

You lose bow procs, and bow procs are your hardest-hitting ability.

You lose sustain from bow procs, because bow procs are free so the greater the ratio of bow procs to other abilities, the more efficiently you use magicka.

You lose sustain from Siphoning Attacks, which rewards weaving.

Furthermore, while most players will LA-weave 5 abilities to get their bow proc and then LA-weave the bow proc, the really good magblades will LA-weave 4 abilities and then LA-weave Merciless, and if timed properly, the LA from the Merciless weave will hit early enough to make that a bow proc. The risk is that if you mistime that, then you just end up recasting Merciless and end up losing DPS than if you had played it safe and LA-weaved 5 abilities. So the good, experienced magblades can get a 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs to other abilities instead of a more typical 1-to-5 ratio, and the more bow procs you get, the more damage and sustain that you get.

If you can't weave well--and most people playing this game can't get 0.8 LA/s--then you will not find magblades to be that strong. But for people who can perfectly weave and get that 1-to-4 ratio of bow procs, magblade will reward that level of skill very, very richly.

This is also why balancing magblade DPS is difficult. Since any direct nerfs will mostly hurt the players for whom magblade is not very strong. To ZOS's credit, they did lower the magblade ceiling a little with the changes to how Merciless stacks are saved.

(Unfortunately, my weaving is less than perfect. But I stick with magblade because that's been my main since 2015, before magblades were cool. )

Dynamic rotations is really the only thing that makes them harder. Every top-level dps player in the game can LA weave with a high degree of precision, class is irrelevant there. Most classes also benefit from a dynamic rotation so it should be the norm anyway.

And you say that Magblades lose sustain when this isn't done well, great my Magplar can't sustain when I LA weave perfectly. So where's a Magplar's reward for doing a good job.

I get that nerfing appropriately is hard because you risk losing what makes Nightblades fun and unique, but they are simply too good at PvE at the moment. Their dps needs to be lowered slightly (personally I can live with them doing 2-3% more dps due to their difficulty, but 5%+ is just too much) and their self-healing definitely needs to be reduced (#makehealersgreatagain).

Personally, I recently got my magblade up to a place where I should be melting the dummy skeleton, but that hasn't been the case for me. Trying to master the magblade rotation has been extraordinary difficult for me, luckily I'm not alone. There are several people in guilds I'm in with higher cp who struggle as well. Most people I know who have a magblade use them strictly for pvp (either ganking or bombing). I would imagine it would be this way for most others in the game as well.

In my honest opinion, I don't see it as needed to nerf magblades for a player who super exceeds at mastering the rotation. If there are other classes that hit 5% less dps with a much MUCH simpler rotation or having a zoo of pets doing the guess work for them, then I can't possibly see how it's a problem for the very select few who have mastered the art and execution of the magblade rotation.

And if everyone truly believed and thought magblades just melt everything around them blindly and easily, then I would imagine everyone would be using one 24/7. Just my two cents

md3788 · August 2018

Danksta wrote: »

*kings of mag dps

I was waiting for someone to say this. I’m not a Stam player so I was asking in terms of mag builds.

code65536 · August 2018

Runefang wrote: »

Every top-level dps player in the game can LA weave with a high degree of precision, class is irrelevant there.

That's my point. I never said that magblade wasn't top DPS. But it's top DPS only for people who you'd called "top-level". I see a lot of people jumping on the magblade bandwagon, because that's what the "top-level" players do, and then they wonder why their DPS isn't as good.

Runefang wrote: »

And you say that Magblades lose sustain when this isn't done well, great my Magplar can't sustain when I LA weave perfectly. So where's a Magplar's reward for doing a good job.

That's my point. Magblades reward weaving (skill) in a way that no other class rewards skill.

I'm not sure you understood the point of my post. Yes, magblades are top DPS for "top-level" players, but that's because they have a high ceiling that rewards skills. And this is why balancing nightblade DPS is difficult, because for anyone who is not one of your "top-level players", magblades are not top DPS.

Septimus_Magna · August 2018

Instead of nerfing NBs I suggest making the other classes more viable for dps. Maybe give all classes one ability with a high ceiling dmg-wise which takes skill to master. It makes playing a dps class more fun if there is room for improvement.

Juhasow · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Every top-level dps player in the game can LA weave with a high degree of precision, class is irrelevant there.

That's my point. I never said that magblade wasn't top DPS. But it's top DPS only for people who you'd called "top-level". I see a lot of people jumping on the magblade bandwagon, because that's what the "top-level" players do, and then they wonder why their DPS isn't as good.

Runefang wrote: »

And you say that Magblades lose sustain when this isn't done well, great my Magplar can't sustain when I LA weave perfectly. So where's a Magplar's reward for doing a good job.

That's my point. Magblades reward weaving (skill) in a way that no other class rewards skill.

I'm not sure you understood the point of my post. Yes, magblades are top DPS for "top-level" players, but that's because they have a high ceiling that rewards skills. And this is why balancing nightblade DPS is difficult, because for anyone who is not one of your "top-level players", magblades are not top DPS.

Umm that is not completly true. If You are average player You'll still most propably find magblade to be most effective for You from all mag builds. Fact that magblade requires slightly more complicated rotation to reach high numbers doesnt mean without that rotation it wont be on pair with other builds. Problem is also that magblade is not the only class that requires harder rotation for maximum available DPS but other builds even if played extremly well cant come close to magblade. I also think many people overestimate difficulty of magblade max DPS rotation thinking that 999 IQ is requirement for it when in reality it's not that far ahead from few other builds max DPS rotations. Magblade rewards people who can manage tougher rotation same as any other build but not any other build can provide so many benefits as magblade.

MDiCaro · August 2018

Stuff sure has changed, 2 years ago noone wanted magblade in their group, was all about sorcs back then. Makes me wanna try the game again

John_Falstaff · August 2018

@MDiCaro , same state of things makes me want to quit the game (I'm stam DK main). ^^ Either situation is definitely unhealthy for ESO.

I frankly support the idea of giving other classes more complicated (and more rewarding) unique ways to play. But I think first ZOS needs to fix situation with general stamina viability issues, and those are caused by content itself. Best first make stamina as a whole viable in vCR / vAS, then balance out the damage.

paulychan · August 2018

My magblade has a higher dps output than my magsorc, who has all his Passives unlocked, the blade doesn’t, needing her undaunted stuff finished. Magsorc, in his current build, has higher Magicka pool, higher spell damage and higher Magicka regen. The magblade puts out roughly 8k more damage,10k on a good parse.
Really, the high damage spammable (I use funnel) is what I see. Magblade has one, magsorc, meh.
I do use a spammable I found called degeneration mixed with the empower passive from mages guild. That does boost my dps quite a bit after working into rotation. I couldn’t, however, get mages fury to work as a spammable, relying on degeneration and force pulse for spams.
Not a complaint, just an observation. The lack of spammable seemed to be a roadblock for the Sorc

Xvorg · August 2018

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Crits, Minor Berserk, Incap and Soul Harvest's increased damage effect and the best sustain out of all classes for DPS. Basically, NBs have the buffs that other DPS classes can only dream of.

Minor AND major berserk, though it is kindo of difficult to use the later in PvE

kadar · August 2018

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Instead of nerfing NBs I suggest making the other classes more viable for dps. Maybe give all classes one ability with a high ceiling dmg-wise which takes skill to master. It makes playing a dps class more fun if there is room for improvement.

This. I'm in favor of pretty much any change with makes the game more challenging without lowering power level.

kadar · August 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Every top-level dps player in the game can LA weave with a high degree of precision, class is irrelevant there.

That's my point. I never said that magblade wasn't top DPS. But it's top DPS only for people who you'd called "top-level". I see a lot of people jumping on the magblade bandwagon, because that's what the "top-level" players do, and then they wonder why their DPS isn't as good.

Runefang wrote: »

And you say that Magblades lose sustain when this isn't done well, great my Magplar can't sustain when I LA weave perfectly. So where's a Magplar's reward for doing a good job.

That's my point. Magblades reward weaving (skill) in a way that no other class rewards skill.

I'm not sure you understood the point of my post. Yes, magblades are top DPS for "top-level" players, but that's because they have a high ceiling that rewards skills. And this is why balancing nightblade DPS is difficult, because for anyone who is not one of your "top-level players", magblades are not top DPS.

Umm that is not completly true. If You are average player You'll still most propably find magblade to be most effective for You from all mag builds. Fact that magblade requires slightly more complicated rotation to reach high numbers doesnt mean without that rotation it wont be on pair with other builds. Problem is also that magblade is not the only class that requires harder rotation for maximum available DPS but other builds even if played extremly well cant come close to magblade. I also think many people overestimate difficulty of magblade max DPS rotation thinking that 999 IQ is requirement for it when in reality it's not that far ahead from few other builds max DPS rotations. Magblade rewards people who can manage tougher rotation same as any other build but not any other build can provide so many benefits as magblade.

The problem with this discussion is "average" and "top-tier" is completely relative. However, Code's point stands regardless of what skill level we like to assign to those words. I was gonna type out a thing about how the mNB "rotation" is not like other classes at all, based on personal experience. I think code's original comment does that better so I won't bother, haha

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2018

md3788 wrote: »

Curious, I've always ran a MagDk and I finally just hit 30K on a dummy parse - near perfect rotation with 100% uptime on potions and ele drain. 2x Zaan, 5x BSW, 5x Imperfect Siroria. Gold infused weapons, purple body with almost all divines and gold magicka enchants. Apprentice mundus. 380 CP. The only thing I'm missing is the 5/1/1 bonus (Currently at 6/1), gold body pieces, and a Maelstrom back bar. From what I've been reading and seeing if I throw this set on a MagBlade I should be able to crush that DPS parse. Am I at all right in thinking that? Is there something about MagBlades that make them that much better than others?

How good are you? Mageblades are the apex of ranged magic DPS. They are of course not out parsing most stamina toons in a full raid, but that is a different debate.

What makes mageblades so good in the current meta: Sustain, High Single Target, Mobility, Passive Self heals.

I ask how good you are because not a day goes by when I dont see at least one thread saying please help my mageblade DPS. I see the youtubers hitting 50 and I am stuck in the 20s. Mageblade has a very high ceiling but also a pretty low floor. It is the most difficult rotation in the game, as at the extreme end, it is 100% Dynamic (meaning there is no set order to it). With a static rotation, you will not crush your 30k DPS parse. You might beat it, but circular/static rotations on mageblade usually seem to top out in the mid 30s for most people. No class is more skill dependent than NB.

A mDK rotation is trivial compared to a mageblade. A 30k DPS parse with that gear and CP means you have a basic handle on it, but by no means have mastered it. No reason you can't come close to 40k at your setup. To be blunt, if you cant do a mDK rotation perfectly, mageblade might be a rude awakening. Your weave and buff/DOT management needs to be perfect if you want to hit the youtube parses you are seeing.

Nice thing about mageblade, they are super easy to level. You could literally do the entire main quest with swallow soul, and once you get Sap, you can easily solo any grind spot. Might as well make one and find out.

jypcy · August 2018

OP— for reference, I mocked up a meta magblade to try it out back around either CWC or dragon bones. I also mocked up a heavy attack magden during Summerset. From about 10-15 minutes with the 3mil for each, my highest parses were:
Magblade: 26k
Magden: 38k

Granted, there’s a 10-20 cp difference between the two patches and if my magblade tests were during CWC it wouldn’t have had Zaan. There was also the buff to light attacks in general. Still, I don’t think that even summing all of these disparities would up my magblade dps almost 50%. Instead, I’m not hitting major numbers with magblade because A) I’m just not a very good dps and B ) I don’t want to spend much time practicing dps rotations. As others have stated, the skill ceiling is high for magblades and that’s largely a part of their rotation. If you want to put in the time to practice that, magblades can be very powerful. But by no means would I consider them major deeps straight out of the box, and if you don’t want to worry about lots of practice, chances are another class can be more effective with an easier rotation.

Edit to remove discussion of class numbers because I was off by a fair bit

md3788 · August 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

Curious, I've always ran a MagDk and I finally just hit 30K on a dummy parse - near perfect rotation with 100% uptime on potions and ele drain. 2x Zaan, 5x BSW, 5x Imperfect Siroria. Gold infused weapons, purple body with almost all divines and gold magicka enchants. Apprentice mundus. 380 CP. The only thing I'm missing is the 5/1/1 bonus (Currently at 6/1), gold body pieces, and a Maelstrom back bar. From what I've been reading and seeing if I throw this set on a MagBlade I should be able to crush that DPS parse. Am I at all right in thinking that? Is there something about MagBlades that make them that much better than others?

How good are you? Mageblades are the apex of ranged magic DPS. They are of course not out parsing most stamina toons in a full raid, but that is a different debate.

What makes mageblades so good in the current meta: Sustain, High Single Target, Mobility, Passive Self heals.

I ask how good you are because not a day goes by when I dont see at least one thread saying please help my mageblade DPS. I see the youtubers hitting 50 and I am stuck in the 20s. Mageblade has a very high ceiling but also a pretty low floor. It is the most difficult rotation in the game, as at the extreme end, it is 100% Dynamic (meaning there is no set order to it). With a static rotation, you will not crush your 30k DPS parse. You might beat it, but circular/static rotations on mageblade usually seem to top out in the mid 30s for most people. No class is more skill dependent than NB.

A mDK rotation is trivial compared to a mageblade. A 30k DPS parse with that gear and CP means you have a basic handle on it, but by no means have mastered it. No reason you can't come close to 40k at your setup. To be blunt, if you cant do a mDK rotation perfectly, mageblade might be a rude awakening. Your weave and buff/DOT management needs to be perfect if you want to hit the youtube parses you are seeing.

Nice thing about mageblade, they are super easy to level. You could literally do the entire main quest with swallow soul, and once you get Sap, you can easily solo any grind spot. Might as well make one and find out.

I keep seeing this "dynamic rotation" and "must be a good player". I'd prefer that then sticking to the script of a static rotation. At least playing as a Magblade will have some challange and I'd argue that having to use a dynamic rotation is what MAKEs you a good player. On my parse I had 100% uptime on spell crit pots and elemental drain. Light attacks accounted for the most amount of damage so I'd say my weaving is good. As for the rotation, yes the MagDKs rotation is static but I do keep track of my DOTs/AOEs and reapply as necessary as the DOTs on a MagDK don't line up perfectly. To be clear, I don't expect to hit 50 but I just feel like I am hitting the ceiling with my current set up. I'm leveling my MagBlade now so I guess I will soon find out

Danksta · August 2018

.

jypcy wrote: »

OP— for reference, I mocked up a meta magblade to try it out back around either CWC or dragon bones. I also mocked up a heavy attack magden during Summerset. From about 10-15 minutes with the 3mil for each, my highest parses were:
Magblade: 26k
Magden: 38k

Granted, there’s a 10-20 cp difference between the two patches and if my magblade tests were during CWC it wouldn’t have had Zaan. There was also the buff to light attacks in general. Still, I don’t think that even summing all of these disparities would up my magblade dps almost 50%. Instead, I’m not hitting major numbers with magblade because A) I’m just not a very good dps and B ) I don’t want to spend much time practicing dps rotations. As others have stated, the skill ceiling is high for magblades and that’s largely a part of their rotation. If you want to put in the time to practice that, magblades can be very powerful. But by no means would I consider them major deeps straight out of the box, and if you don’t want to worry about lots of practice, chances are another class can be more effective with an easier rotation.

Also, I don’t really keep up to date with what the highest dps parses are every patch, but my impression is that the best of each class are hitting the dummy with:
Magblade: ~48k
Magplar: ~47k
Magden: ~45k
Magsorc: ~45k?
Magdk: I really don’t know but sounds like 40k is pretty attainable from other posts in this thread haha

(Someone please correct those numbers because you’re probably better informed than I am.) But bottom line is I get the impression that any class in the hands of a dedicated, skilled player can deliver big boy numbers. Magblades just get lauded as “the best” because their top players marginally outperform the other class’ top players and more players like playing magblades for feeling so rewarding for their skill, so you see more magblades with big boy numbers like those than you do from other classes.

Magblades can most definitely hit well over 50k, even without Siroria. I imagine the top players on PC are hitting close to 60k on a 3 mil.

jypcy · August 2018

Danksta wrote: »

.

jypcy wrote: »

OP— for reference, I mocked up a meta magblade to try it out back around either CWC or dragon bones. I also mocked up a heavy attack magden during Summerset. From about 10-15 minutes with the 3mil for each, my highest parses were:
Magblade: 26k
Magden: 38k

Granted, there’s a 10-20 cp difference between the two patches and if my magblade tests were during CWC it wouldn’t have had Zaan. There was also the buff to light attacks in general. Still, I don’t think that even summing all of these disparities would up my magblade dps almost 50%. Instead, I’m not hitting major numbers with magblade because A) I’m just not a very good dps and B ) I don’t want to spend much time practicing dps rotations. As others have stated, the skill ceiling is high for magblades and that’s largely a part of their rotation. If you want to put in the time to practice that, magblades can be very powerful. But by no means would I consider them major deeps straight out of the box, and if you don’t want to worry about lots of practice, chances are another class can be more effective with an easier rotation.

Also, I don’t really keep up to date with what the highest dps parses are every patch, but my impression is that the best of each class are hitting the dummy with:
Magblade: ~48k
Magplar: ~47k
Magden: ~45k
Magsorc: ~45k?
Magdk: I really don’t know but sounds like 40k is pretty attainable from other posts in this thread haha

(Someone please correct those numbers because you’re probably better informed than I am.) But bottom line is I get the impression that any class in the hands of a dedicated, skilled player can deliver big boy numbers. Magblades just get lauded as “the best” because their top players marginally outperform the other class’ top players and more players like playing magblades for feeling so rewarding for their skill, so you see more magblades with big boy numbers like those than you do from other classes.

Magblades can most definitely hit well over 50k, even without Siroria. I imagine the top players on PC are hitting close to 60k on a 3 mil.

Ope, sure enough, shows how closely I’m keeping up with dps nowadays

https://youtu.be/SBpDA64GrcI

(Note that this is with some external buffs, but even so.)

kadar · August 2018

jypcy wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

.

jypcy wrote: »

OP— for reference, I mocked up a meta magblade to try it out back around either CWC or dragon bones. I also mocked up a heavy attack magden during Summerset. From about 10-15 minutes with the 3mil for each, my highest parses were:
Magblade: 26k
Magden: 38k

Granted, there’s a 10-20 cp difference between the two patches and if my magblade tests were during CWC it wouldn’t have had Zaan. There was also the buff to light attacks in general. Still, I don’t think that even summing all of these disparities would up my magblade dps almost 50%. Instead, I’m not hitting major numbers with magblade because A) I’m just not a very good dps and B ) I don’t want to spend much time practicing dps rotations. As others have stated, the skill ceiling is high for magblades and that’s largely a part of their rotation. If you want to put in the time to practice that, magblades can be very powerful. But by no means would I consider them major deeps straight out of the box, and if you don’t want to worry about lots of practice, chances are another class can be more effective with an easier rotation.

Also, I don’t really keep up to date with what the highest dps parses are every patch, but my impression is that the best of each class are hitting the dummy with:
Magblade: ~48k
Magplar: ~47k
Magden: ~45k
Magsorc: ~45k?
Magdk: I really don’t know but sounds like 40k is pretty attainable from other posts in this thread haha

(Someone please correct those numbers because you’re probably better informed than I am.) But bottom line is I get the impression that any class in the hands of a dedicated, skilled player can deliver big boy numbers. Magblades just get lauded as “the best” because their top players marginally outperform the other class’ top players and more players like playing magblades for feeling so rewarding for their skill, so you see more magblades with big boy numbers like those than you do from other classes.

Magblades can most definitely hit well over 50k, even without Siroria. I imagine the top players on PC are hitting close to 60k on a 3 mil.

Ope, sure enough, shows how closely I’m keeping up with dps nowadays

https://youtu.be/SBpDA64GrcI

(Note that this is with some external buffs, but even so.)

Liko is not a human so, this isn't relevant.

GawdSB · August 2018

Range, can sustain resources forever, has a free cast high dps skill, great buffs, and great execute.

SilverWF · August 2018

Videos with turned off damage numbers = garbage not worth to even open.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · August 2018

md3788 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

Curious, I've always ran a MagDk and I finally just hit 30K on a dummy parse - near perfect rotation with 100% uptime on potions and ele drain. 2x Zaan, 5x BSW, 5x Imperfect Siroria. Gold infused weapons, purple body with almost all divines and gold magicka enchants. Apprentice mundus. 380 CP. The only thing I'm missing is the 5/1/1 bonus (Currently at 6/1), gold body pieces, and a Maelstrom back bar. From what I've been reading and seeing if I throw this set on a MagBlade I should be able to crush that DPS parse. Am I at all right in thinking that? Is there something about MagBlades that make them that much better than others?

How good are you? Mageblades are the apex of ranged magic DPS. They are of course not out parsing most stamina toons in a full raid, but that is a different debate.

What makes mageblades so good in the current meta: Sustain, High Single Target, Mobility, Passive Self heals.

I ask how good you are because not a day goes by when I dont see at least one thread saying please help my mageblade DPS. I see the youtubers hitting 50 and I am stuck in the 20s. Mageblade has a very high ceiling but also a pretty low floor. It is the most difficult rotation in the game, as at the extreme end, it is 100% Dynamic (meaning there is no set order to it). With a static rotation, you will not crush your 30k DPS parse. You might beat it, but circular/static rotations on mageblade usually seem to top out in the mid 30s for most people. No class is more skill dependent than NB.

A mDK rotation is trivial compared to a mageblade. A 30k DPS parse with that gear and CP means you have a basic handle on it, but by no means have mastered it. No reason you can't come close to 40k at your setup. To be blunt, if you cant do a mDK rotation perfectly, mageblade might be a rude awakening. Your weave and buff/DOT management needs to be perfect if you want to hit the youtube parses you are seeing.

Nice thing about mageblade, they are super easy to level. You could literally do the entire main quest with swallow soul, and once you get Sap, you can easily solo any grind spot. Might as well make one and find out.

I keep seeing this "dynamic rotation" and "must be a good player". I'd prefer that then sticking to the script of a static rotation. At least playing as a Magblade will have some challange and I'd argue that having to use a dynamic rotation is what MAKEs you a good player. On my parse I had 100% uptime on spell crit pots and elemental drain. Light attacks accounted for the most amount of damage so I'd say my weaving is good. As for the rotation, yes the MagDKs rotation is static but I do keep track of my DOTs/AOEs and reapply as necessary as the DOTs on a MagDK don't line up perfectly. To be clear, I don't expect to hit 50 but I just feel like I am hitting the ceiling with my current set up. I'm leveling my MagBlade now so I guess I will soon find out

Awesome, welcome to the party. Haha. I agree with most of what you just said. NB is just a bit of a different animal than you might be used to. It will probably get darker before it gets lighter as they say, but it's worth the effort. It sure did for me anyway. I would say it took about a month of solid playing before I really felt like NB was the superior choice for me. I have experience to some degree on every class, both magic and stam, and now mageblade is my go to for damage.

The point about dynamic rotation and must be a good player is essentially true. Any class can be played statically or dynamically, but NB sees the greatest difference between the two. NB also has a "mini rotation" inside their rotation because of the way merciless resolve functions, so even if you compare say a dynamic sorc rotation to a dynamic mageblade rotation, the later is going to be tougher. That is why it really does favor skilled play better than any other class. If the best player on the planet and I both parse on a stam DK (easy circular rotation) on a dummy, the difference is going to be negligible. If we do the same on a magic nightblade, the difference is going to be noticeable. There is a skill threshold where if you dont meet it, you will probably do better on another class. Assuming you are on the right side of the bell curve, sky is the limit once you get the hang of it. Keep at it and dont hesitate to ask questions.

Runefang · August 2018

code65536 wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Every top-level dps player in the game can LA weave with a high degree of precision, class is irrelevant there.

That's my point. I never said that magblade wasn't top DPS. But it's top DPS only for people who you'd called "top-level". I see a lot of people jumping on the magblade bandwagon, because that's what the "top-level" players do, and then they wonder why their DPS isn't as good.

Runefang wrote: »

And you say that Magblades lose sustain when this isn't done well, great my Magplar can't sustain when I LA weave perfectly. So where's a Magplar's reward for doing a good job.

That's my point. Magblades reward weaving (skill) in a way that no other class rewards skill.

I'm not sure you understood the point of my post. Yes, magblades are top DPS for "top-level" players, but that's because they have a high ceiling that rewards skills. And this is why balancing nightblade DPS is difficult, because for anyone who is not one of your "top-level players", magblades are not top DPS.

I understood your point but I'm not sure if you think it's ok for them to have that much of a higher ceiling? I don't.

Ultimately game balancing matters most at the top end. So saying that nightblades get to be that much better just because of their difficulty is a weak argument for me.

I want to be rewarded like a magblade on my magplar and magsorc.

But like I said a slightly higher ceiling is ok with me because of that difficulty. It's just too much higher at the moment. That's without even considering all their other benefits.

kadar · August 2018

SilverWF wrote: »

Videos with turned off damage numbers = garbage not worth to even open.

People do videos with floating damage numbers?

Runefang · August 2018

The_Outsider wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Videos with turned off damage numbers = garbage not worth to even open.

People do videos with floating damage numbers?

And why are they helpful?

Heimpai · August 2018

Is it easier than stamblade? I only ask as this is basically my first mmo and i struggle to hit 25k dps consistently..idk if sets make a huge difference but i use spriggans with bone pirates/selenes (i know my parse sucks, not used to kb/m)

I wanted to make a magblade but didn’t know if it’d be worth it as i use my character for pvp as well

Vahrokh · August 2018

The_Outsider wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Instead of nerfing NBs I suggest making the other classes more viable for dps. Maybe give all classes one ability with a high ceiling dmg-wise which takes skill to master. It makes playing a dps class more fun if there is room for improvement.

This. I'm in favor of pretty much any change with makes the game more challenging without lowering power level.

In the whole story of all MMOs, you'll have HUGE difficulty finding examples of "buffing everyone else up to XYZ level". It's usually "nerf XYZ down to everyone else's level".

Vahrokh · August 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

md3788 wrote: »

Curious, I've always ran a MagDk and I finally just hit 30K on a dummy parse - near perfect rotation with 100% uptime on potions and ele drain. 2x Zaan, 5x BSW, 5x Imperfect Siroria. Gold infused weapons, purple body with almost all divines and gold magicka enchants. Apprentice mundus. 380 CP. The only thing I'm missing is the 5/1/1 bonus (Currently at 6/1), gold body pieces, and a Maelstrom back bar. From what I've been reading and seeing if I throw this set on a MagBlade I should be able to crush that DPS parse. Am I at all right in thinking that? Is there something about MagBlades that make them that much better than others?

How good are you? Mageblades are the apex of ranged magic DPS. They are of course not out parsing most stamina toons in a full raid, but that is a different debate.

What makes mageblades so good in the current meta: Sustain, High Single Target, Mobility, Passive Self heals.

I ask how good you are because not a day goes by when I dont see at least one thread saying please help my mageblade DPS. I see the youtubers hitting 50 and I am stuck in the 20s. Mageblade has a very high ceiling but also a pretty low floor. It is the most difficult rotation in the game, as at the extreme end, it is 100% Dynamic (meaning there is no set order to it). With a static rotation, you will not crush your 30k DPS parse. You might beat it, but circular/static rotations on mageblade usually seem to top out in the mid 30s for most people. No class is more skill dependent than NB.

A mDK rotation is trivial compared to a mageblade. A 30k DPS parse with that gear and CP means you have a basic handle on it, but by no means have mastered it. No reason you can't come close to 40k at your setup. To be blunt, if you cant do a mDK rotation perfectly, mageblade might be a rude awakening. Your weave and buff/DOT management needs to be perfect if you want to hit the youtube parses you are seeing.

Nice thing about mageblade, they are super easy to level. You could literally do the entire main quest with swallow soul, and once you get Sap, you can easily solo any grind spot. Might as well make one and find out.

In one of his last videos, Gilliamtherogue shows a beginner magblade setup able to achieve 43k parses, with static rotation. Just saying.

erlewine · August 2018

There's a lot of reasons, but ultimately it boils down to one thing imo - their normal dps rotation also produces a massive amount of free group healing. That is the one thing that sets them apart.

Juhasow · August 2018

Just to make something clear. Magblade with static rotation can still outparse other magicka builds.