ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yes, this is intended since Rune Cage can be dodged.
lol
Now it will be completely useless.
In PTS I thought it was about dodge roll only.
No, of course not. ZOS does nerfs thoroughly, even if they felt that a class needed buffs 3 months before.
There are countless threads on the PTS about it. Enjoy your stamNB buff.
Interesting, how the term "roll dodge" always implies stamina and/or Nightblades in most player's minds, even though every class/variant can do that...
Magicka can only do it a handful of times before they run dry
Exactly, even they can. Stamina classes run dry eventually too...Why this bias?
Micah_Bayer wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »Counterplay
Lol
Yes because major evasion doing the dodging for you is counterplay lol
As is having shields for ignoring % crit chance...
But shields take full, unmitigated damage. Crit or not, they take far more damage and require far more resources to keep up than dodge rolling. A 10K shield (halved from 20K in PVP) is done in one or two hits from most spammables in the game. Dodge roll can avoid those one to two spammables and then a few more, and even more if shuffle is up. Mag sorc is dead or nearly dead by the 3rd spammable unless they are spamming shields and doing zero offense.
Interesting, how the term "roll dodge" always implies stamina and/or Nightblades in most player's minds, even though every class/variant can do that...
Get rid of the delayed proc of Mage's Fury, make Curse dodgeable blockable and instant, and I'll be cool with Rune Cage being undodgeable as long as the range is reduced to 8m or less.
Plenty of thought. Its a lame skill.
Interesting, how the term "roll dodge" always implies stamina and/or Nightblades in most player's minds, even though every class/variant can do that...
A.) Stamblade is by far the strongest, most lethal, and easiest to play stam class in the game. As such it is the most popular.
B.) Stamblade can dodge roll the most of any stam class because they have by far the best sustain, with one passive giving 15% to all regens (basically a free set of willow path), an overloaded skill that gives a regen and damage buff on top of the strongest single target burst skill in the game, and another sustain skill in leeching strikes on top of all that...because point A.
C.) Stamblade can run medium better than any other class in game and hence can dodge roll more cus of point A.
D.) Stamblade is the only class that can get major evasion even in heavy cus of point A.
The only thing that’s interesting is how clueless all these people posting “why stamblade” are.
Hayden_Knight wrote: »Leased it cant be reflected. try playing a magden and using frost reach to CC.
They said new adjustments are coming to rune-cage..this might be the one.
False. The master staff is good if you want to use clench as a spammable DPS. But you can simple replace runecage with clench, keep using force pulse as spammable DPS and take advatange of having 5+5+2. Depending on the build, you can benefit more of having 5+5+2 than having the master staff.
Micah_Bayer wrote: »Is that intended? Because that is OP
A.) Stamblade is by far the strongest, most lethal, and easiest to play stam class in the game. As such it is the most popular.
B.) Stamblade can dodge roll the most of any stam class because they have by far the best sustain, with one passive giving 15% to all regens (basically a free set of willow path), an overloaded skill that gives a regen and damage buff on top of the strongest single target burst skill in the game, and another sustain skill in leeching strikes on top of all that...because point A.
C.) Stamblade can run medium better than any other class in game and hence can dodge roll more cus of point A.
D.) Stamblade is the only class that can get major evasion even in heavy cus of point A..
The only thing that’s interesting is how clueless all these people posting “why stamblade” are .
Interesting, how the term "roll dodge" always implies stamina and/or Nightblades in most player's minds, even though every class/variant can do that...
A.) Stamblade is by far the strongest, most lethal, and easiest to play stam class in the game. As such it is the most popular.
B.) Stamblade can dodge roll the most of any stam class because they have by far the best sustain, with one passive giving 15% to all regens (basically a free set of willow path), an overloaded skill that gives a regen and damage buff on top of the strongest single target burst skill in the game, and another sustain skill in leeching strikes on top of all that...because point A.
C.) Stamblade can run medium better than any other class in game and hence can dodge roll more cus of point A.
D.) Stamblade is the only class that can get major evasion even in heavy cus of point A.
The only thing that’s interesting is how clueless all these people posting “why stamblade” are.
Which proves my suspicion about bias against Nightblades, just pure hatred and blind rage forces one to stare on any other advantage a NB has, which I never mentioned.
Shall we try again and just discuss "roll dodge", nothing else?
Yes, sorcs needed this combo as they cannot burst while under pressure and I'm talking non-CP here. DKs can eat damage while at the same time doing damage. Sorcs do 0 damage while defending themselves. Sorcs need to find a window to apply that deadly combo. If there is no such combo then there is nothing sorcs can do as in many scenarios you get only one chance to apply your combo before you are getting DOT-ed down by a DK who also reflects, or bursted down by a NB in 3 shots.
Let me ask this, do they rely on them as much as Sorc does? Because if the burst is not locked into place via CC it's very easy to mitigate.
Plus, 3/5 classes had unblockable, undodgeable CCs to counter builds that dodge and block heavily...now 2. But that also means 2 still got to keep theirs.
And you have a skill in rune cage to do that. Let me ask you something, should a class Tha has the burst of a Sorc have a skill that always guarantees they will get that burst off. Where is the balance in that, but timed correctly you are still able to get that skill off and imo that requires skill and is fair.
Well DKs are officially more mobile than sorcs now. The range plays well for DKs too as you can reflect most of ranged attacks, and you can still use some ranged attacks while reflecting and you can leap into your deadly root trap combo. So don't tell that range hurts DKs.You can’t compare it to other classes because not all classes get the same things. What would DKs be without fossilize, we don’t have an execute, we don’t have an ounce of mobility and for fossilize we have to be within a reasonable range, unlike Sorcs.
NB's fear is as strong as rune-cage when dealing with block builds while for Light Armor or Medium Armor builds NB don't even need to use fear. Their Cloak + Surprise Attack + Incap combo is bringing most of the players in execute range....and if it doesn't then they keep spamming Surprise Attack, and if he still doesn't bring the target to execute range then NB cloaks and repeats, or cloaks and switches target.Now, I hate NBs so you can take away fear from them. Though I will say the length for fear has been reduced, and in a way it’s not holding someone in a stationary position though it doesn’t really matter to NBs because ZOS doesn’t know balance when it comes to them.
antihero727 wrote: »
Interesting, how the term "roll dodge" always implies stamina and/or Nightblades in most player's minds, even though every class/variant can do that...
A.) Stamblade is by far the strongest, most lethal, and easiest to play stam class in the game. As such it is the most popular.
B.) Stamblade can dodge roll the most of any stam class because they have by far the best sustain, with one passive giving 15% to all regens (basically a free set of willow path), an overloaded skill that gives a regen and damage buff on top of the strongest single target burst skill in the game, and another sustain skill in leeching strikes on top of all that...because point A.
C.) Stamblade can run medium better than any other class in game and hence can dodge roll more cus of point A.
D.) Stamblade is the only class that can get major evasion even in heavy cus of point A.
The only thing that’s interesting is how clueless all these people posting “why stamblade” are.
Which proves my suspicion about bias against Nightblades, just pure hatred and blind rage forces one to stare on any other advantage a NB has, which I never mentioned.
Shall we try again and just discuss "roll dodge", nothing else?
I don’t think it’s biased as much as ignorance on balance. I don’t believe ZOS employees sit around at meetings figuring out how to make one class better than the others (unless it’s a new class that requires a real money only chapter). It’s a lack of skill, care or knowledge that gets us in these tussles
Micah_Bayer wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »Counterplay
Lol
Yes because major evasion doing the dodging for you is counterplay lol
As is having shields for ignoring % crit chance...
But shields take full, unmitigated damage. Crit or not, they take far more damage and require far more resources to keep up than dodge rolling. A 10K shield (halved from 20K in PVP) is done in one or two hits from most spammables in the game. Dodge roll can avoid those one to two spammables and then a few more, and even more if shuffle is up. Mag sorc is dead or nearly dead by the 3rd spammable unless they are spamming shields and doing zero offense.
1. More damage with 0% critical hits compared to, let's say 30% in critical hits, Seriously, aren't you confusing those two? Note, this effect is guaranteed!
2. If you get lucky with it, remember 25% chance. And that's the entire point, no guarantee.
So in the end quite fair, even though sometimes one gets lucky and that becomes the whole reason for some, that this has to be removed.
antihero727 wrote: »
Interesting, how the term "roll dodge" always implies stamina and/or Nightblades in most player's minds, even though every class/variant can do that...
A.) Stamblade is by far the strongest, most lethal, and easiest to play stam class in the game. As such it is the most popular.
B.) Stamblade can dodge roll the most of any stam class because they have by far the best sustain, with one passive giving 15% to all regens (basically a free set of willow path), an overloaded skill that gives a regen and damage buff on top of the strongest single target burst skill in the game, and another sustain skill in leeching strikes on top of all that...because point A.
C.) Stamblade can run medium better than any other class in game and hence can dodge roll more cus of point A.
D.) Stamblade is the only class that can get major evasion even in heavy cus of point A.
The only thing that’s interesting is how clueless all these people posting “why stamblade” are.
Which proves my suspicion about bias against Nightblades, just pure hatred and blind rage forces one to stare on any other advantage a NB has, which I never mentioned.
Shall we try again and just discuss "roll dodge", nothing else?
I don’t think it’s biased as much as ignorance on balance. I don’t believe ZOS employees sit around at meetings figuring out how to make one class better than the others (unless it’s a new class that requires a real money only chapter). It’s a lack of skill, care or knowledge that gets us in these tussles
I don't think they did that for Warden considering how awful it is.
But if they DON'T think about it then that makes it even worse because they should consider the implications of their actions before implementing these changes.
Micah_Bayer wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »Counterplay
Lol
Yes because major evasion doing the dodging for you is counterplay lol
As is having shields for ignoring % crit chance...
But shields take full, unmitigated damage. Crit or not, they take far more damage and require far more resources to keep up than dodge rolling. A 10K shield (halved from 20K in PVP) is done in one or two hits from most spammables in the game. Dodge roll can avoid those one to two spammables and then a few more, and even more if shuffle is up. Mag sorc is dead or nearly dead by the 3rd spammable unless they are spamming shields and doing zero offense.
1. More damage with 0% critical hits compared to, let's say 30% in critical hits, Seriously, aren't you confusing those two? Note, this effect is guaranteed!
30% critical bonus? Did you hear about critical resistance? Most PVP players wear full impen armor, even shield stacking sorcs run some impenetrable armor pieces.2. If you get lucky with it, remember 25% chance. And that's the entire point, no guarantee.
So in the end quite fair, even though sometimes one gets lucky and that becomes the whole reason for some, that this has to be removed.
Well we talk a sustained fight here and not an 1shot gank build, and 25% chance means that quarter of the hits will miss in a prolonged fight while on top of that you get a nice snare and root immunity with it.
Micah_Bayer wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »Counterplay
Lol
Yes because major evasion doing the dodging for you is counterplay lol
As is having shields for ignoring % crit chance...
But shields take full, unmitigated damage. Crit or not, they take far more damage and require far more resources to keep up than dodge rolling. A 10K shield (halved from 20K in PVP) is done in one or two hits from most spammables in the game. Dodge roll can avoid those one to two spammables and then a few more, and even more if shuffle is up. Mag sorc is dead or nearly dead by the 3rd spammable unless they are spamming shields and doing zero offense.
1. More damage with 0% critical hits compared to, let's say 30% in critical hits, Seriously, aren't you confusing those two? Note, this effect is guaranteed!
2. If you get lucky with it, remember 25% chance. And that's the entire point, no guarantee.
So in the end quite fair, even though sometimes one gets lucky and that becomes the whole reason for some, that this has to be removed.
Olen_Mikko wrote: »OMG i love the salty tears of bad sorcs. Now you actually need to know even a little, how to play.
"Buuhuu, i can't cheeseburst people. I want my OP Rune Cage back!"
Nice signature there, buck-o
Least we can see who was and wasn't affected by this patch.
You really don't understand how shields work. Let's say I have a skill with a tooltip of 10K outside of Cyrodil. In Cyrodil that skill is halved to 5K. If I hit someone with a shield, that shield takes all 5K damage. If I hit someone without a shield, they take the mitigated damage, probably closer to 3K damage depending on resistance and cps. If that attack is a crit, that player is maybe taking 1.7x (70% crit damage) the damage if they aren't running any impen (this is also dependent cps and other variables but 1.7x is pretty reasonable and 1.5x is base). So maybe they take 5.1K damage, but it isn't with every hit. The shield is going to take that 5k damage every single hit. If you allowed shields to crit they would literally be useless; that same 5K hit would hit for 8.5K, on a 10K shield. The only way you could allow shields to crit is if you in turn allowed casting a shield to crit or allowed damage to shields to be mitigated by resistance, impen and cps.
And dodge roll causes every dodgeable incoming attack to miss. Not % based, every attack.
Apache_Kid wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
When you aren't aware that shuffle is a skill under the medium armor skill line.
How embarrassing.
Well, considering populations it is. But maybe it’s a stamDK buff as well, and ZOS finally heard these. What do you think @Ragnarock41 ?
Olen_Mikko wrote: »Olen_Mikko wrote: »OMG i love the salty tears of bad sorcs. Now you actually need to know even a little, how to play.
"Buuhuu, i can't cheeseburst people. I want my OP Rune Cage back!"
Nice signature there, buck-o
Least we can see who was and wasn't affected by this patch.
I've had my fair share of nerfs. I'm okay with this patch and changes.
Micah_Bayer wrote: »Is that intended? Because that is OP
Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
yes Im talking about flame reach, and it still stuns (knockback) your target. At least it did for me yesterday. And shock works too. If you want the 5 sec runecage lock, it HAD to go. It was not healthy at all, and it still isnt, because if youre not set up to rely on dodge, you will still be locked down. So gg nightblades and wtf devs were you thinking about giving ONE class this huge buff?
Yeah but you're not counting fear and fossilize which act same as rune cage. Through block and roll dodge and have no counter at all.
Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Micah_Bayer wrote: »killimandrosb16_ESO wrote: »Can we please have the dogeable, blockable, clearly telegraphed frag stun back?
sorcs have stuns apart from runecage. Two actually. Thats not the issue in my opinion. The problem is counter to sloads and runecage being given exclusively to stamNB's. If you dont have shuffle, youre still screwed. Why not make a counter to it ALL classes have easy access to? explain that...
We only have one, if you're talking about flame reach, it is only viable if you have a master's staff
yes Im talking about flame reach, and it still stuns (knockback) your target. At least it did for me yesterday. And shock works too. If you want the 5 sec runecage lock, it HAD to go. It was not healthy at all, and it still isnt, because if youre not set up to rely on dodge, you will still be locked down. So gg nightblades and wtf devs were you thinking about giving ONE class this huge buff?
Yeah but you're not counting fear and fossilize which act same as rune cage. Through block and roll dodge and have no counter at all.
Fossilize and fear have ranges of like 6 meters I think? Rune cage has like 40? Flame reach and the lightning version both have a CC of sorts, but don't call that a Sorc only thing. That's from destro staff.