Most of the time "five skills in 1 second" ends up being 2 dot ticks, light attack, dizzying swing and executioner. Normally landed over two seconds as well but people like to exaggerate

Please just let this horse die already. Stop resurrecting it a million times over, only to be proven time and time and time again that you are wrong.

No. Animation cancelling does not allow multiple skills to be used within 1 second. The most you can do within a single second is use multiple distinct actions, ie a skill, a light/heavy attack, block, bash, etc. LA -> Skill -> Bash within a single GCD is valid, LA -> Skill -> Skill -> Bash is not.

No amount of animation cancelling can bypass the GCD. If you're dying to a player within less than 5 or 6 seconds, you are either dying to a lot of upfront burst damage, or you are being shredded by multiple dot's over that 5 or 6 seconds. You can see this any time you look at a combat log from an addon like Combat Metrics. Each actual skill is only being cast about every second or so, but between each skill cast dot's and delayed components are ticking away automatically.

I even pointed this out in another thread, where the OP tried posting their combat log to prove that animation cancelling was killing him, when in fact what was killing him was 5+ dot's, 1 of which was oblivion damage that cannot be mitigated (you can guess as to which set this came from). What killed him ultimately was him not countering those dot's, as he was actually on a Nightblade, and so could have used Cloak to defend himself, as any damage is hardcoded to miss when you are cloaked. All he had to do was hit Cloak a few times to ease some of the pressure off, and either get some healing going or purge the dot's, and he would have been good.

If you are dying to upfront burst damage, really the only way to counter that is to see it coming and get ready for it. Most builds that rely on burst, namely Nightblade's, actually cannot survive if that burst fails. A lot of top tier Magicka Nightblade's in fact have a rule, where if they don't think they can burst you down within 4 or 5 seconds, they won't even try taking you, because they know you'll likely win.

And finally, as I explained in another thread related to animation cancelling, if it was removed I can guarantee you would want it added back immediately. Any sort of defensive action, namely block and dodge roll, outright rely on animation cancelling to be done effectively.

Because Zenimax elected to have combat be active in ESO, you must actively block and dodge incoming attacks, rather than the game having it do it automatically based on a number. In order to do so, you actually have to be able to block or dodge when necessary. You cannot be stuck in some long animation, else you will die. That is why they implemented the priority system, where certain actions follow a hierarchy (dodge > block > bar swap > skill > light/heavy attack), and when you use a higher priority action, it will take precedence over any lower priority actions you are currently performing.

This is why animation cancelling is a thing in the first place, because blocking is a higher priority action, and so cancels your skill (and by extension your skill's animation). Even though it is called animation cancelling, you aren't actually cancelling the animation, but the whole action in itself. You can see this if you cancel a channeled skill or a skill with a cast time too quickly, the skill will be cancelled outright.

SilverWF wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Please just let this horse die already. Stop resurrecting it a million times over, only to be proven time and time and time again that you are wrong.

No. Animation cancelling does not allow multiple skills to be used within 1 second. The most you can do within a single second is use multiple distinct actions, ie a skill, a light/heavy attack, block, bash, etc. LA -> Skill -> Bash within a single GCD is valid, LA -> Skill -> Skill -> Bash is not.

No amount of animation cancelling can bypass the GCD. If you're dying to a player within less than 5 or 6 seconds, you are either dying to a lot of upfront burst damage, or you are being shredded by multiple dot's over that 5 or 6 seconds. You can see this any time you look at a combat log from an addon like Combat Metrics. Each actual skill is only being cast about every second or so, but between each skill cast dot's and delayed components are ticking away automatically.

I even pointed this out in another thread, where the OP tried posting their combat log to prove that animation cancelling was killing him, when in fact what was killing him was 5+ dot's, 1 of which was oblivion damage that cannot be mitigated (you can guess as to which set this came from). What killed him ultimately was him not countering those dot's, as he was actually on a Nightblade, and so could have used Cloak to defend himself, as any damage is hardcoded to miss when you are cloaked. All he had to do was hit Cloak a few times to ease some of the pressure off, and either get some healing going or purge the dot's, and he would have been good.

If you are dying to upfront burst damage, really the only way to counter that is to see it coming and get ready for it. Most builds that rely on burst, namely Nightblade's, actually cannot survive if that burst fails. A lot of top tier Magicka Nightblade's in fact have a rule, where if they don't think they can burst you down within 4 or 5 seconds, they won't even try taking you, because they know you'll likely win.

And finally, as I explained in another thread related to animation cancelling, if it was removed I can guarantee you would want it added back immediately. Any sort of defensive action, namely block and dodge roll, outright rely on animation cancelling to be done effectively.

Because Zenimax elected to have combat be active in ESO, you must actively block and dodge incoming attacks, rather than the game having it do it automatically based on a number. In order to do so, you actually have to be able to block or dodge when necessary. You cannot be stuck in some long animation, else you will die. That is why they implemented the priority system, where certain actions follow a hierarchy (dodge > block > bar swap > skill > light/heavy attack), and when you use a higher priority action, it will take precedence over any lower priority actions you are currently performing.

This is why animation cancelling is a thing in the first place, because blocking is a higher priority action, and so cancels your skill (and by extension your skill's animation). Even though it is called animation cancelling, you aren't actually cancelling the animation, but the whole action in itself. You can see this if you cancel a channeled skill or a skill with a cast time too quickly, the skill will be cancelled outright.

You didn't understand the whole point of this threads and I pointed to you about this a million times.
And you continue talking with your imagined opponent about his demand to remove AC completely and left everything else as is.

This is why I stopped replying in your other thread.

I will say this one last time. You were wanting bash/block cancelling removed. To begin with, I proved that animation cancelling isn't even what killed you, so you really have no point to argue at all. But to humour you, again, run through a decently hard veteran dungeon and wait for the full animation of everything you do to finish before blocking. Not even DLC level, which I can guarantee you will die in if you do this, just one of the more challenging base game veteran dungeons.

Again, every aspect of the priority system is there for a reason. Take even a single action out, and you'll ruin the fluid combat system for everybody. This isn't a stat-based MMO where you have a dodge chance you increase with gear. This is an MMO where you actually have to react to what the enemy is doing. Good luck doing so if you're stuck in the tail end of your skill's animation when a one shot mechanic is literally just about to happen.

When you get hit 5 times within a second - that just seems to be that way due to lag - when you see it, it has all already happened and you get therefore the summary of 5 hits, which seem to you as if they came all at once - but they didn't.

SilverWF wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Please just let this horse die already. Stop resurrecting it a million times over, only to be proven time and time and time again that you are wrong.

No. Animation cancelling does not allow multiple skills to be used within 1 second. The most you can do within a single second is use multiple distinct actions, ie a skill, a light/heavy attack, block, bash, etc. LA -> Skill -> Bash within a single GCD is valid, LA -> Skill -> Skill -> Bash is not.

No amount of animation cancelling can bypass the GCD. If you're dying to a player within less than 5 or 6 seconds, you are either dying to a lot of upfront burst damage, or you are being shredded by multiple dot's over that 5 or 6 seconds. You can see this any time you look at a combat log from an addon like Combat Metrics. Each actual skill is only being cast about every second or so, but between each skill cast dot's and delayed components are ticking away automatically.

I even pointed this out in another thread, where the OP tried posting their combat log to prove that animation cancelling was killing him, when in fact what was killing him was 5+ dot's, 1 of which was oblivion damage that cannot be mitigated (you can guess as to which set this came from). What killed him ultimately was him not countering those dot's, as he was actually on a Nightblade, and so could have used Cloak to defend himself, as any damage is hardcoded to miss when you are cloaked. All he had to do was hit Cloak a few times to ease some of the pressure off, and either get some healing going or purge the dot's, and he would have been good.

If you are dying to upfront burst damage, really the only way to counter that is to see it coming and get ready for it. Most builds that rely on burst, namely Nightblade's, actually cannot survive if that burst fails. A lot of top tier Magicka Nightblade's in fact have a rule, where if they don't think they can burst you down within 4 or 5 seconds, they won't even try taking you, because they know you'll likely win.

And finally, as I explained in another thread related to animation cancelling, if it was removed I can guarantee you would want it added back immediately. Any sort of defensive action, namely block and dodge roll, outright rely on animation cancelling to be done effectively.

Because Zenimax elected to have combat be active in ESO, you must actively block and dodge incoming attacks, rather than the game having it do it automatically based on a number. In order to do so, you actually have to be able to block or dodge when necessary. You cannot be stuck in some long animation, else you will die. That is why they implemented the priority system, where certain actions follow a hierarchy (dodge > block > bar swap > skill > light/heavy attack), and when you use a higher priority action, it will take precedence over any lower priority actions you are currently performing.

This is why animation cancelling is a thing in the first place, because blocking is a higher priority action, and so cancels your skill (and by extension your skill's animation). Even though it is called animation cancelling, you aren't actually cancelling the animation, but the whole action in itself. You can see this if you cancel a channeled skill or a skill with a cast time too quickly, the skill will be cancelled outright.

You didn't understand the whole point of this threads and I pointed to you about this a million times.
And you continue talking with your imagined opponent about his demand to remove AC completely and left everything else as is.

To give you the benefit of the doubt, which I really shouldn't be doing since you don't even understand why AC is so important to begin with, what would you propose to "fix" it? You can't just remove the priority system, for the reasons I just explained. You can't speed animations up because that'll look super awkward, even more awkward than what we have now -- and people already complain about how bad ESO's combat animations are, it'll be far worse if you speed the animations up. Removing the animations is a nonsensical suggestion, I know that you know that you're just exaggerating to prove your own flawed point. You can't have the damage magically disappear, because the damage doesn't happen at the end of the animation -- what if I killed the enemy before the animation completed, should they just pop back to life?

Short of moving away from the active combat system the game currently has, which I and many other players love about the game, there is no alternative solution. And there shouldn't even be one. Contrary to what you guys believe, animation cancelling is not a broken feature (which it is a feature, as I've explained numerous times now).

Intentional animation cancelling is not necessary to pull good DPS in PVE. Block/bash cancelling is a relic of the past, bar swap cancelling is more out of convenience, and weaving, while it does help, isn't necessary since there are builds that can perform well without any weaving. Pet sorcs have been using heavy attack builds for a long time now, and stamDK's have also ran heavy attack builds since Morrowind nerfed sustain. So you don't need to animation cancel to pull good DPS.

And, as I've pointed out, twice now, animation cancelling is not what killed you. What killed you was the 5+ dot's ticking against you, one of which was Sloads. You could have mitigated all of that with Cloak. Outside of what killed you, though, I tested myself, and you can absolutely see key parts of skill animations, even when they're bash cancelled. The slash effect of DK's Venomous Claw is still visible, and the spark effect of that one snb ability is still visible, too. And, as I said, what likely killed the OP was several dot's ticking against him, or a lot of upfront burst damage. Which, as I explained, it's actually common for burst damage to kill you in under 5 seconds. Magicka Nightblade's live by the 4-5 second rule, as I explained.

Stop ragging on a feature that makes the game easier to play for everybody, while also increasing the skill ceiling, making the game more interesting for us veteran players. If you had guys had your way, you would absolutely ruin the game for everybody.

notyuu wrote: »

proposed idea: match the animation speed on all attacks where AC can be applied, to the actual damage itself.. yes, i'll make them faster to play, but it'll also in essence, make it so that AC goes from a thing, to fundamentally pointless

The damage is applied basically immediately after the attack connects. Cutting the animation off there will make combat look and feel much clunkier than it supposedly is currently.